David Wallace, the most underrated Irish player ever?

LumpyChicken · 19-04-2009 10:17pm #1

Wallace is so underrated it's unreal.He is without a doubt one of the best flankers in the world, right after McCaw and Burger. Not to mention one of the most consistent players for Munster and Ireland.

Tomtom364 · 19-04-2009 10:37pm

Underrated?!?!?! What are ya on about! He is extremly highly rated!!!

gosplan · 19-04-2009 10:40pm

He's very very highly rated.

It's just that he's taken a while in his career to reach the heights he's currently at.

JoeyDoh · 19-04-2009 10:40pm

I believe he is highly rated,but due to the presence of world beating player in their position on the Irish team(O connell and O driscoll), I believe he is overshadowed.

corny · 19-04-2009 10:42pm

Wallace has always been one of the first names on the teamsheet and no one in this country underestimates his ability or his impact.

Just my opinion but the Springboks have a few flankers right behind McCaw, not just Burger.

LumpyChicken · 19-04-2009 10:45pm

Just to clarify I am talking about on the world stage.Whereas the likes of O' Connell and O' Driscoll and even O' gara are recognised abroad, wallace rarely gets the credit he deserves.

Sundy · 19-04-2009 10:49pm

LumpyChicken wrote: »

Just to clarify I am talking about on the world stage.Whereas the likes of O' Connell and O' Driscoll and even O' gara are recognised abroad, wallace rarely gets the credit he deserves.

Well i hope he gets to start on the Lions team so he can let his game do the talking.

One of Wallaces big problems (in terms of getting recognition) over his career has been the fact that he can play anywhere in the back row and while he is mostly a 7 now isnt what people would call a typical openside.

chupacabra · 19-04-2009 11:02pm

I dont care how he is rated. In my book he is one of the best in the world in his natural position (No. 8) and heck, one of the best in the world even when he is played out of the position. The man is an absolute legend and embodies munster rugby.

gosplan · 19-04-2009 11:02pm

Big problem is that O'Sullivan didn't like him all that much.

He's 32 and just over 50 caps.

[Jackass] · 19-04-2009 11:16pm

He was hard done by with Eddie O'Sullivan alright, often opting for Easterby in the back row. But then, so was Keith Gleeson who at the time was the best 7 in the country (and for an out and out 7 there still isn't anyone to match him imo.)

I also would say that Wallace is one of the best in the world, but there's a lot og good back row players, not just McCaw and Burger - don't forget Elsom also, who is probably the best 6 on the planet right now.

marco_polo · 19-04-2009 11:37pm

A great player who perhaps who does not have quite as many caps as he deserves. I wouldn't say he is underated by anyone with a keen interest in Irish rugby who watches him perform without fail for Ireland and Munster.

I know what you are getting at though, to the casual rugby fan he would not be held up in quite the same esteem as a household name like O'Connell or O'Driscoll. Perhaps this would also be true of foreign rugby pundits to a lesser degree.

anonymous_joe · 20-04-2009 12:39am

He is and was a magnificent player.

However, under Eddie O'Sullivan we had some very very good flankers, and Wallace lost out.

He's not underrated anymore, he was, but that was some time ago tbh.

Chucky the tree · 20-04-2009 1:21am

7. M. Williams and 8. D. Wallace I think will be an excellent combination.

LumpyChicken · 20-04-2009 1:38am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

7. M. Williams and 8. D. Wallace I think will be an excellent combination.

Nah, I'd rather see a full Irish back row with Ferris at 6, Wallace at 7 and Heaslip at 8.

Chucky the tree · 20-04-2009 1:52am

LumpyChicken wrote: »

Nah, I'd rather see a full Irish back row with Ferris at 6, Wallace at 7 and Heaslip at 8.

I'm sure we'd all rather a full irish 15 but after Williams recent performances it will be very very difficult not to include him if he keeps his form up.

Serenity Now! · 20-04-2009 7:40am

LumpyChicken wrote: »

Nah, I'd rather see a full Irish back row with Ferris at 6, Wallace at 7 and Heaslip at 8.

I don't think you'll see that.
I think they'll play Wallace at 8 if he starts but at blindside you're going to see the likes of Joe Worsley who had a great 6N this year for example. Martyn Williams is starting at 7 fitness-permitting - No doubt about that.
Ferris would probably begin as a bench flanker in the first test.

Worsley, Williams, Wallace with Ferris as replacement is one hell of a back row.

twinytwo · 20-04-2009 7:40am

Wallace is far better 8 than heaslip and has the legs to run through a wall he is very fast for a man his size and as we have seen can tank over from positions most forwards couldnt had he played 8 for his full career he would have been the best in the business it will be a sad day for munster and ireland when he retires... but he will have at least a 3rd Hc under his belt:D

sslazio11 · 20-04-2009 9:59am

Serenity Now! wrote: »

I don't think you'll see that.
I think they'll play Wallace at 8 if he starts but at blindside you're going to see the likes of Joe Worsley who had a great 6N this year for example. Martyn Williams is starting at 7 fitness-permitting - No doubt about that.
Ferris would probably begin as a bench flanker in the first test.

Worsley, Williams, Wallace with Ferris as replacement is one hell of a back row.

The backrow combination will be interesting, but I can't see Ferris starting on the bench. He's an out and out blindside, which means he's not the versatile type you'd need on the bench in case of injury. He'll either start the test or not make the 22, in my opinion. Sounds ludicrous, but might be a reality. For the bench I'd have Tom Croft, he's played second row for Leicester, definitely an advantage.

As for Worsley, defensively he's fantastic, but he offers nothing in attack. I'd take Ferris over him, the nice little handoff he gave for Luke Ftazgerald's first try against Italy is something I couldn't imagine Worsley doing, and Ferris is equally as good defensively I think.

What I'd be concerned about with Martyn Williams is his size, might not have the physique required to combat the SA back row, but I think he's worth starting with, he's playing fantastic rugby this season. Form permitting etc. I'd like to see Ferris, Williams, Wallace.

barnesd · 20-04-2009 3:44pm

Saying Wallace is underrated is laughable really.

Podge_irl · 20-04-2009 4:36pm

twinytwo wrote: »

Wallace is far better 8 than heaslip

Based on what precisely?

Heaslip was the stand out 8 of the home nations in the 6N and has been playing consistently well there for Leinster for 4 years now. He has less power than Wallace, but has significantly better hands and I would imagine he's faster. He's a good linkman and does good breakdown work for Leinster. Great control at the base. How many times has Wallace even played 8?

gilmore · 20-04-2009 5:34pm

Have a bad feeling that Wallace will be coming home with a lot of splinters in his ass because of his ability to cover any of the backrow positions.

Sandwich · 20-04-2009 5:39pm

Not for me.

We paid dearly for his missed touch kick against Aus, but I'd still go for Rob Saunders.

thomond2006 · 20-04-2009 5:47pm

Wallace is not underated, he gets lots of praise in the media and rightly so.

JOHN HAYES is the most underated Irish player ever.

remus808 · 20-04-2009 6:15pm

I think Heaslip is a better 8, but no way is he faster than Wally. Wally is one of the fastest forwards around AFAIK. (not quite a Tom Croft or Pierre Spies, but not far off)

[Jackass] · 20-04-2009 6:29pm

Heaslip has pace to burn! Probably haven't seen as much of it this season as I'd like, but Heaslip has ridiculos pace for his size.

Serenity Now! · 20-04-2009 6:42pm

sslazio11 wrote: »

The backrow combination will be interesting, but I can't see Ferris starting on the bench. He's an out and out blindside, which means he's not the versatile type you'd need on the bench in case of injury. He'll either start the test or not make the 22, in my opinion. Sounds ludicrous, but might be a reality. For the bench I'd have Tom Croft, he's played second row for Leicester, definitely an advantage.

As for Worsley, defensively he's fantastic, but he offers nothing in attack. I'd take Ferris over him, the nice little handoff he gave for Luke Ftazgerald's first try against Italy is something I couldn't imagine Worsley doing, and Ferris is equally as good defensively I think.

What I'd be concerned about with Martyn Williams is his size, might not have the physique required to combat the SA back row, but I think he's worth starting with, he's playing fantastic rugby this season. Form permitting etc. I'd like to see Ferris, Williams, Wallace.

I'd say all good points apart from the worry about Martyn Williams' size. He has oodles of experience playing South Africa and playing there. Won't faze him the slightest. He's an animal in the tackle area and is excellent at snaffling possession regardless of opposition. As well as that, he's one hell of a link man.

aya14 · 20-04-2009 6:50pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Wallace is not underated, he gets lots of praise in the media and rightly so.

JOHN HAYES is the most underated Irish player ever.

Agreed, Hayes very under-rated.
Wallace is recognised abroad Munster legend of old J.Langford told me about 5 years ago how highly they rate him in Oz.

Podge_irl · 20-04-2009 7:01pm

I don't get where the notion that Hayes is under-rated comes from. He's widely praised by a pretty constant stream of people.

barnesd · 20-04-2009 7:07pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't get where the notion that Hayes is under-rated comes from. He's widely praised by a pretty constant stream of people.

Hayes gets huge praise from the Irish press and Irish rugby fans.

Chucky the tree · 20-04-2009 7:31pm

The reason Hayes doesnt get a huge amount of praise outside Ireland is because he is not technically a very good tight head.

ALH-06 · 20-04-2009 8:04pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

Heaslip has pace to burn! Probably haven't seen as much of it this season as I'd like, but Heaslip has ridiculos pace for his size.

But he's not faster than Wallace.

LumpyChicken · 20-04-2009 8:07pm

ALH-06 wrote: »

But he's not faster than Wallace.

I agree, apparently he played wing at one time in his youth.

Podge_irl · 20-04-2009 8:10pm

ALH-06 wrote: »

But he's not faster than Wallace.

Again, based on? I imagine it would be quite close but I would have thought Heaslip was the faster player. I don't recall ever really seeing them in any kind of foot race on the pitch. Not that that is all that important in the greater scheme of things.

stephen_n · 20-04-2009 10:21pm

Wallaces problem is that he isn't a specialist 7 or 8 but is really good in both positions. He would probably be a better 8 than a 7 as he isn't as good as other 7's like Martyn Williams at cleaning up on the ground and making a nuisance of himselfbut as he showed against Wales his ability to use his strength to to turn over ball in the tackle is phenominal. Hard to say if he is under rated world wide maybe some of the SH contributers on here might shed some light on that, but then again they think most NH players are only average :pac::pac:

twinytwo · 21-04-2009 12:49pm

LumpyChicken wrote: »

I agree, apparently he played wing at one time in his youth.

He played sevens rugby back in the day which means he is faster than most

twinytwo · 21-04-2009 12:55pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Based on what precisely?

Heaslip was the stand out 8 of the home nations in the 6N and has been playing consistently well there for Leinster for 4 years now. He has less power than Wallace, but has significantly better hands and I would imagine he's faster. He's a good linkman and does good breakdown work for Leinster. Great control at the base. How many times has Wallace even played 8?

As well you know Wallace has hardly if ever played 8 for ireland, being we had no other quality 7 at the time.. But as an 8 he has everything size strength speed(he played sevens which means heaslip hasnt a tap on him) he has leg power unmatched by any on the irish team and he has played 8 for munster for a good whie now and as we have seen he is deadly. He is also a rock in defence... give a choice between him of heaslip at 8 ... Wally everytime.

Podge_irl · 21-04-2009 1:07pm

twinytwo wrote: »

As well you know Wallace has hardly if ever played 8 for ireland, being we had no other quality 7 at the time.. But as an 8 he has everything size strength speed(he played sevens which means heaslip hasnt a tap on him) he has leg power unmatched by any on the irish team and he has played 8 for munster for a good whie now and as we have seen he is deadly. He is also a rock in defence... give a choice between him of heaslip at 8 ... Wally everytime.

Yes, because everyone who played sevens is automatically faster then anyone who hasn't, even if the IRFU doesn't give a crap about sevens or ever actively try and get people playing it. Suit yourself, I'm not going to be convinced otherwise. Heaslip has been playing number 8 for the last 4 years for Leinster and has nearly always been one of their best players. He was one of Ireland's best players in the 6N this year. He's performed at no. 8 at a higher level than Wallace.

anonymous_joe · 21-04-2009 1:09pm

twinytwo wrote: »

As well you know Wallace has hardly if ever played 8 for ireland, being we had no other quality 7 at the time.. But as an 8 he has everything size strength speed(he played sevens which means heaslip hasnt a tap on him) he has leg power unmatched by any on the irish team and he has played 8 for munster for a good whie now and as we have seen he is deadly. He is also a rock in defence... give a choice between him of heaslip at 8 ... Wally everytime.

We've had loads of quality 7s, Gleeson, O'Connor, was Simon Easterby a 6 or a 7?

twinytwo · 21-04-2009 1:15pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yes, because everyone who played sevens is automatically faster then anyone who hasn't, even if the IRFU doesn't give a crap about sevens or ever actively try and get people playing it. Suit yourself, I'm not going to be convinced otherwise. Heaslip has been playing number 8 for the last 4 years for Leinster and has nearly always been one of their best players. He was one of Ireland's best players in the 6N this year. He's performed at no. 8 at a higher level than Wallace.

So if they moved walalce to 8 who would they play at seven :rolleyes:

anonymous_joe · 21-04-2009 1:22pm

twinytwo wrote: »

So if they moved walalce to 8 who would they play at seven :rolleyes:

Jennings!

twinytwo · 21-04-2009 1:25pm

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Jennings!

Wallace is a better 8 than heaslip but he is a way better 7 than jennings... so u see why he never plays 8 for ireland assuming they are looking to win

Podge_irl · 21-04-2009 1:34pm

twinytwo wrote: »

So if they moved walalce to 8 who would they play at seven :rolleyes:

Stunningly irrelevant to my point.

Had Wallace played more consistently at 8 then he may well have been a better 8 then Heaslip. However, he didn't and Heaslip has vastly more experience there in a position where experience is quite important. Heaslip was nominated for player of the 6N this year playing at 8 and was one of Ireland's best players. He is a proven performer at 8 at international level and will soon play there for the Lions. Wallace has played there a few times for Munster - that's no basis to say he is better imo.

twinytwo · 21-04-2009 2:01pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Stunningly irrelevant to my point.

Had Wallace played more consistently at 8 then he may well have been a better 8 then Heaslip. However, he didn't and Heaslip has vastly more experience there in a position where experience is quite important. Heaslip was nominated for player of the 6N this year playing at 8 and was one of Ireland's best players. He is a proven performer at 8 at international level and will soon play there for the Lions. Wallace has played there a few times for Munster - that's no basis to say he is better imo.

except for the fact wallace will start 8 for the lions

anonymous_joe · 21-04-2009 2:22pm

twinytwo wrote: »

Wallace is a better 8 than heaslip but he is a way better 7 than jennings... so u see why he never plays 8 for ireland assuming they are looking to win

My hole he's a better 8 than Heaslip. He might have been, but he's 32 and has less experience at the highest level as an 8 than Heaslip.

As for Jennings, I wasn't serious, but he's one of the most underrated flankers in this country.

David Wallace, the most underrated Irish player ever?

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