Distortion question.

punk_one82

I'm looking to buy a decent distortion pedal. Something that will get me roughly the older Biffy Clyro sound and Nirvana sound. I've been thinking a Boss -ds1, but then I saw a video comparing the stock one to the keeley modded one,and it just didn't compete.The stock one sounded awful. The keeley mod is quite expensive for a broke student like me. Has anyone got any suggestions for a pedal that sounds similar to the keeley modded ultra ds-1, but without the big price tag?

rcaz

Steer clear of the DS-1

The Boss SD-1 is a great cheap overdrive pedal, I love mine, you can get it for about fifty quid, but I don't know if it'd have enough gain for you. Maybe you could use it to drive your amp?

Kurt used a Big Muff a little, didn't he? Muffs are great (Wahey), and not too pricey. If you want a big balls-out fuzzy distortion, definitely look into a Big Muff (€69 on Thomann).

My first thought when I read this was a Proco RAT, I think that might be your best bet. It can cover a ton of ground, and it's such a nice pedal. A little pricey maybe at €75, but well worth it. If I could only keep one of my distortions, it'd be my RAT hands down.

punk_one82

Cheers, I'll head out to xmusic and give the ones you mentioned a try. I've heard a lot about the muffs(heh) but I've never actually seen one being used(that i'm aware of) so it'll be interesting to see what i make of that. I'll give the rat a go too. How do you mean drive the amp with an overdrive pedal? Just got my first tube head so I'm a noob when it comes to this. Just trying to set up a decent pedal board at the minute.

darrenw5094

Cobain also used a Boss DS-2 Turbo. The DS-1 is bollox.
Some of the Boss ones are ok and easy to get, but not the DS-1.

Try out as many as you can in your local music shop and see what sounds what you are looking for.

-=al=-

fulltone ocd

darrenw5094

Expensive piece of kit though.

spoonbadger

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Cobain also used a Boss DS-2 Turbo. The DS-1 is bollox.
Some of the Boss ones are ok and easy to get, but not the DS-1.

Try out as many as you can in your local music shop and see what sounds what you are looking for.

Have a DS-2 and it's also bollocks. Sounds like a cat raping a typewriter. Avoid Boss at all costs. They're horrible compared to real gear.

-=al=- wrote: »

fulltone ocd

...Which is a kickass pedal, but probably not what the OP is looking for . I'd second the Rat/Muff suggestions, especially the Rat.

Last Angry Man

In my opinion you'd be doing well to get a pedal that gives you a pro sound. Most records have guitarists playing through decent amplification with or without pedals. Some guitarist use different amps for treble, middle and bass. Most records also have multi-tracked guitars using different sounds, mics, mic positions, eqs, compressors all blended together to achieve "that" sound. That said, I have a ProCo Rat Deuce Tone which is rather good and was my only OD sound for many years. I now use it to augment a driven DSL but still use it on it's own from time to time.

mattfender

I replaced my DS-1 with a Boss Metal Zone there recently, works great for the biffy tunes (simons main dist pedal) and also Nirvana. What i like about it is you can control the mid range frequency's and boost what you wanna hear and you dont necessarily have to have it up full whack. up to yourself tho

darrenw5094

The Boss Metal Zone is gonna get hammered here.
You've been warned......

-=al=-

uh oh

the only usefull thing about the metalzone is its ability to be turned off

darrenw5094

It's a stomp box.....stomp on it......hard.

punk_one82

Well it's going to be used with a Hiwatt head,a 1960av cab and a jap tele,so my gear atm isn't the worst. I think the only boss distortion pedal i'd go for is a keeley modded ds -1 which in my opinion sounds awesome. I've been reading up on the rat and it sounds like it might fit my needs. I'll give a big muff and a metal muff a go too. No harm in browsing around I suppose.

Fingers Mcginty

spoonbadger wrote: »

Avoid Boss at all costs. They're horrible compared to real gear.

whaaaaa?????

Seziertisch

Nevermind" was recorded at the following studios: Sound City, Van Nuys and Devonshire, North Hollywood. It was produced by Butch Vig and NIRVANA. According to Vig, his guitars were "a late-Sixties Mustang, a Jaguar with DiMarzio pickups and several new Stratocasters with humbuckers in the bridge posutions." His main effects were a Boss DS-1 and the aforementioned Small Clone. A ProCo rat distortion pedal was also probably used on some songs. His main amp was a Mesa/Boogie Studio .22. He also used a Fender Bassman on about four songs and a Vox AC30 for some clean tracks. Four microphones were used to mike Kurt's speaker cabinet (he would pick which one he liked best for each song and its signal was sent through the Neve console at Sound City): a Shure SM57, an AKG 414, a Neumann U87, and occasionally a Sennheiser 421. According to Vig, the Small Clone was the key to "the watery guitar sound you hear on the pre-chorus build-up of 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' and also 'Come As You Are.'" An Electro-Harmonix Big Muff fuzz box was used on "Lithium" for that "dark, thumpier sound." Vig recalls using the U87 mike on "Lithium" because it wasn't so bright and had a "heavier sound." "Polly" was recorded at Vig's Smart Studios in Madison, Wisconsin during demo sessionsfor "Nevermind." The guitar had only 5 strings which had never been changed. Butch Vig says, "It was tuned down about a step and a half down from E. I recorded it with an AKG 414. The same guitar is on 'Something in the Way.'"

punk_one82

So basically the 3 pedals im looking at are ones that kurt used. Thats helpful.

Seziertisch

As someone who didn't follow this path, I would recommend first changing the pickups in your guitar. They will offer a far greater improvement compared to any one pedal. Although if you badly need a distortion pedal then go for it.

darrenw5094

Damn......i just traded a Mesa Studio 22.
But the Boss DS-1 thing i don't get. There is no way to get a good sound from it. I have a Keeley version and it's still gak.

Hiwatt head and 1960 cab should be good combination alright. Does the Tele have humbuckers or single coils?

As for the Boss thing.....there are better pedals than Boss, but Boss are in peoples price range......some of their overdrives are usable though, compared to the DS-1.

Checkout some of the new Digitech range called the 'Hardwire'. They are roughly the same price as the Boss, but they sound decent and are true bypass too.

Seziertisch

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Damn......i just traded a Mesa Studio 22.
But the Boss DS-1 thing i don't get. There is no way to get a good sound from it. I have a Keeley version and it's still gak.

Hiwatt head and 1960 cab should be good combination alright. Does the Tele have humbuckers or single coils?

As for the Boss thing.....there are better pedals than Boss, but Boss are in peoples price range......some of their overdrives are usable though, compared to the DS-1.

Checkout some of the new Digitech range called the 'Hardwire'. They are roughly the same price as the Boss, but they sound decent and are true bypass too.

I have a homebrew modded one that is definitely usable. It is what it is but into a decent tube amp it definitely has its own thing going. I also think the originals were quite different from the new Boss ones. Supposedly a lot of revisions have taken place of the circuit and its components.

punk_one82

The pickups will be changed eventually,but theyre not a priority. Single coil pickups. I found out today that I actually have a bit of money and after a watching a few Big Muff videos, it looks like I'll be going down that road. Sure I'll check em out anyway. The stock ds-1 does sound pants from what I can see, but I still really like the keeley modded ones.

GWK

Darren, i will sell the Studio 22 back to you 2K .
joking aside, Had a good go over the weekend and very happy, needs a new set of valves but was still very good. Enjoy the JTM.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

i have a ds1, not a big fan at all. i find it cuts a lot of your bottom end:mad:

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

spoonbadger wrote: »

Avoid Boss at all costs. They're horrible compared to real gear.

I like the blues driver.....and the ME50 is good for the money.....

mattfender

blues drivers my fav pedal :pac:

mattfender

-=al=- wrote: »

uh oh

the only usefull thing about the metalzone is its ability to be turned off

hahaha dont worry it fits the experimental sh1t i do in me band, still is pretty awful for everythin else hah

rcaz

That post about pedals not getting 'pro' sounds - How would you get a mental weirdo fuzz tone without using a mental weirdo fuzz pedal??

As for 'driving your amp', set your amp up so it's just straddling the line between clean and dirty, step on a pedal (which is set for a good volume boost) and it'll push your amp extra-hard and the amp will start distorting itself (a lot of guys like this because it's "real" distortion from the amp, as opposed to "fake" distortion from a pedal's circuit. For this purpose, you could use something like an EH LPB-1 to switch between "clean" and "distortion".

The Big Muff's really cool, but it isn't the most versatile of pedals. I suggest you try the RAT most, 'cause like I said, it'll cover a lot of ground. A BMP will completely take over your guitar sound (and it'll sound damn ****ing cool) but the RAT can do that sort of stuff and more.

spoonbadger

Fingers Mcginty wrote: »

whaaaaa?????

Boss. They're bad. In comparison with gear that *isn't* made in taiwan, by humble natives, in the dark, without lightbulbs .

punk_one82 wrote: »

So basically the 3 pedals im looking at are ones that kurt used. Thats helpful.

True, but the circuits boss use these days aint the same as they were back in the early 90's. Bare that in mind.

Eden Green Gym wrote: »

I like the blues driver.....and the ME50 is good for the money.....

Neither of which are bad, but the blues driver doesnt stand up to a quality tubescreamer. ME50 is good for the price, but i never found it mindblowing.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

spoonbadger wrote: »

Neither of which are bad, but the blues driver doesnt stand up to a quality tubescreamer. ME50 is good for the price, but i never found it mindblowing.

i havnt played through a "real" tubescreamer, the me50 models it, it also models the BD, i much prefer the tubescreamer. Agreed the ME50 isnt mindblowing, only really got it as i wanted a compressor, delay and a good overdrive/distortion pedal, I got the me50 for the price of the delay pedal:D

darrenw5094

The Boss ME-50 is great for the price. Suit a beginner for effects etc.
Some of the Boss pedals are vile though. DS-1, compressor is a joke.

Why don't Boss put a bit more effort in to compete with the big boys? True bypass, quality parts, tone quality etc.

OK-Cancel-Apply

The only thing about the DS-1 is that it's not very versatile. It does exactly what it says on the tin...distorts the signal. The type of tone you get will depend mainly on the amp you have and the amp setting you choose. Some people like the way it sounds..some don't. I must say, the 'tone' knob on the DS-1 is unusable.. it really does cut the low end off dramatically as soon as you get past 11 o'clock.

I'd highly recommend the Line 6 Uber Metal - I saw it being discussed here on boards so I researched it a bit and then bought one. It's great. You can get pretty much any sound you want from it.

rcaz

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Why don't Boss put a bit more effort in to compete with the big boys? True bypass, quality parts, tone quality etc.

As far as marketing goes, Boss is the big boy, is it not? It doesn't really need to compete with anyone.

Aren't Boss just consciously making the whole digital thing their aim? I guess they're not trying to make 'classic' pedals, they'd rather work on their COSM stuff. Although they're the best pedals, isn't it good that someone isn't just trying to remake old stuff?

Creeping-Death

If people think the DS-1 is bad, the MT Metalzone pedals are to be burned at the stake, simply awful pieces of engineering...

Eoin Madsen

El Pr0n wrote: »

As far as marketing goes, Boss is the big boy, is it not? It doesn't really need to compete with anyone.

Aren't Boss just consciously making the whole digital thing their aim? I guess they're not trying to make 'classic' pedals, they'd rather work on their COSM stuff. Although they're the best pedals, isn't it good that someone isn't just trying to remake old stuff?

Er... lots of people are doing that much better than Boss are. Even looking at the more well known companies - Line 6, Digitech, etc. Boss is not the big boy of the effects pedal industry by a long shot. They're more like Marshall - everybody knows them but really only beginners make the mistake of buying their new products. :pac:

They're not all crap, but at the same time, it's hard to take any given Boss pedal and not find a better pedal by someone else for the same money or less.

I think it's fair to say that the strength or weakness of any distortion pedal will ultimately come down to the amp it's plugged into. Some are clearly more versatile than others though.

rcaz

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

Er... lots of people are doing that much better than Boss are. Even looking at the more well known companies - Line 6, Digitech, etc. Boss is not the big boy of the effects pedal industry by a long shot.

If we're only talking about effects here, I'd go with Electro Harmonix as the biggest pedal company.
Boss and Line 6 make tons of stuff. Digitech have a few classics like the Whammy and Space Station, and their new Hardwire stuff is doing pretty well, but I wouldn't put them on par with Boss. Everybody who owns a guitar has heard of Boss (I did say 'as far as marketing goes', nothing to do with quality).

darrenw5094

El Pr0n wrote: »

As far as marketing goes, Boss is the big boy, is it not? It doesn't really need to compete with anyone.

Aren't Boss just consciously making the whole digital thing their aim? I guess they're not trying to make 'classic' pedals, they'd rather work on their COSM stuff. Although they're the best pedals, isn't it good that someone isn't just trying to remake old stuff?

Who said that Boss were the best?? Average at best me thinks.

Fulltone would be my number one choice. But maybe i am the only one.

Last Angry Man

Seziertisch wrote: »

As someone who didn't follow this path, I would recommend first changing the pickups in your guitar. They will offer a far greater improvement compared to any one pedal. Although if you badly need a distortion pedal then go for it.

Actually thats a very good point. I have a dimarzio chopper in one of my tele's and it sounds great through the Rat. Once had a guy come up to me after a gig saying he;d never heard a tele sound that way. I'm still not entirely sure if he wasn't taking the piss though...

I also can't afford 2 amps so I have a Boss Fender Delux pedal in the chain and it adds something to the overall sound. Can't quite put my finger on it but can't play without it either...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055501980&page=10

demanufactured

Have to say i like boss gear, Recently got myself a GT-10 and its the bees knees.

rcaz

*I NEVER SAID BOSS WERE THE BEST PEDAL COMPANY* :P

I said, "as far as marketing goes", they were hard to beat - they are the biggest and most famous guitar effect company. You can't say there's one particular pedal company that is the best.

-=al=-

boss are the best

brendansmith

darrenw5094 wrote: »

The DS-1 is bollox.
Some of the Boss ones are ok and easy to get, but not the DS-1.

darrenw5094 wrote: »

But the Boss DS-1 thing i don't get. There is no way to get a good sound from it. I have a Keeley version and it's still gak.

As for the Boss thing.....there are better pedals than Boss, but Boss are in peoples price range......some of their overdrives are usable though, compared to the DS-1.

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Some of the Boss pedals are vile though. DS-1, compressor is a joke.

Here Darren, What do you think of the Boss DS1? Is it any good?

boycey

There'll be a Biffy Clyro interview coming up in Guitarist magazine this month punk182, might be worth a read for a few tone tips.

darrenw5094

brendansmith wrote: »

Here Darren, What do you think of the Boss DS1? Is it any good?

One more time kid......the Boss DS-1 is bollox.

Even the Keeley mod makes it slightly less bollox. But still bollox.

Seziertisch

A modded DS-1 is what it is (still way better than an unmodded). It works at its best together with a tube amp. It is very vanilla, though, it doesn't do crazy ****, it won't have people going "What is that sound?", it is a fairly generic sounding distortion, and ultimately is kind of boring, but there in lies the beauty of it, it just gives a very usable Marshall-distortion-esque sound.

The big advantage it has is that as a Boss pedal it is a companion for life i.e. would be difficult to break it.

That said, considering what some of the better known modder's Boss pedals go for (in Europe at any rate) there are other better options for that kind of "amp in a box sound". I got my modded DS-1 off Ebay. The guy doing the mod was a relative unknown and was just about to start doing them and selling them properly and this was one of his "prototypes". He said he had bought a number of mods by various guys (Keeley, Analogman etc.) and came up with his own homebrew based on what he liked and disliked about the mods already done. I paid €45 for it. Whether its better or worse than the others I don't know, in any case it don't sound bad. I would have paid a bit more, maybe, based on the sound but not a whole pile more i.e. I wouldn't pay €100 plus for the pleasure.

If €100 + is within your budget I would say look elsewhere rather than going for a new Boss mod. If a good deal comes your way on one, I wouldn't rule it out, though. In terms of other stuff there is a guy selling a ZVEX Box of Rock on adverts at the mo, I am pretty certain that any kind of DS-1 would pale compared to it.

Also possibly of interest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmARgeZPTN4&feature=PlayList&p=30AFF79A019CEE3A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuXXMaqSxvg

rcaz

I'm gonna do this mod as soon as I finish school.

boycey

El Pr0n wrote: »

I'm gonna do this mod as soon as I finish school.

Is it Feylya or Karl?

darrenw5094

El Pr0n wrote: »

I'm gonna do this mod as soon as I finish school.

That was the best sounding DS-1 i have ever heard.
I have a Keeley mod DS-1, not impressed people.:mad:
Never mind the hype.....

mattfender

Choice on pedals is really due to how much you depend on tone...like it works...it works. everyone has their own taste in tone...so can start arguments quite easily :pac: i'm quite happy with my blues driver and od-3 on my board does the job perfectly

feylya

boycey wrote: »

Is it Feylya or Karl?

*groan*

I used to have a DS-1 that I modded to a Keeley style mod. Was a pretty decent sound.

darrenw5094

mattfender wrote: »

Choice on pedals is really due to how much you depend on tone...like it works...it works. everyone has their own taste in tone...so can start arguments quite easily :pac: i'm quite happy with my blues driver and od-3 on my board does the job perfectly

OD3 is one of the better Boss overdrives.

Feylya......what is decent?

feylya

Decent was me going "Hey, that's not a bad sound at all. I like it and I'll use it as my main sound". Didn't have a lot of base it on back then but I preferred it to the distortions on the ME-50

punk_one82

boycey wrote: »

There'll be a Biffy Clyro interview coming up in Guitarist magazine this month punk182, might be worth a read for a few tone tips.

When does this come out?