Arms around Moore Street - Sunday 3pm

MadsL

500 volunteers are wanted to form a human chain around the National Monument Site at Moore Street.

DATE: SUNDAY 19 APRIL 2009
TIME 3PM

Moore Street, site of the last headquarters of the 1916 garrison, is still under threat from developers who want to build a shopping mall around the site.

REGISTER to receive a t-shirt outside 16 Moore Street at 2.30PM

Relatives of 1916 signatories will attend.

Slidey

Thread title disappoints..

Thought they had found another one of Fred Wests' dustbins

Biggins

O' look - the green party is really doing well in yet again in destroying our cultural heritage.
I'd blame Fianna Fail too but they are just a shower of double crossing liars, a shower that are using the "the republician party" slogan just for gaining a few votes anyway!

This countries historical heritage is fcuked and we are sleeping thought the process of it being taken from us.

DeVore

So you'll be there then?

DeV.

Wez

I'll do my best to attend.

MadsL

DeVore wrote: »

So you'll be there then?

DeV.

I will be - be nice to see you Tom, it's been a while.

DeVore

I was referring to the poster ahead of me who sounded "angry".

I wont be there myself, I've a few things on lately (including a play!) which take up my Sundays. I'm also almost allergic to such public demonstrations as they tend to be hijacked by the SWF types, not to mention SF. Thats a terrible reason not to attend but its unfortunately its also a valid one in my opinion.

It has been a while Madsl, hopefully we'll get a pint soon (as soon as I'm not working 3 part time jobs :eek:)

DeV.

My name is URL

A mall sounds more beneficial than a monument at this point in time, tbh

ArmaniJeanss

Biggins wrote: »

This countries historical heritage is fcuked and we are sleeping thought the process of it being taken from us.

Slight exageration there Biggins?
Last time I travelled round the country there were literally thousands, nay tens of thousands of old statues/monuments/houses/castles/cemetries etc, all links to our heritage.

To be honest, it seemed to me that this whole No16 Moore Street thing only conveniently came to light after the development plans went in - seemed a deliberate anti-everything-new stance by the usual folks.

I look forward to the new mall.

Sharpshooter

DeVore wrote: »

So you'll be there then?

DeV.

Are we putting it to a vote?

I'd vote he is asleep right now in preparation for leading the protestants.

Ste.phen

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Slight exageration there Biggins?
Last time I travelled round the country there were literally thousands, nay tens of thousands of old statues/monuments/houses/castles/cemetries etc, all links to our heritage.

To be honest, it seemed to me that this whole No16 Moore Street thing only conveniently came to light after the development plans went in - seemed a deliberate anti-everything-new stance by the usual folks.

I look forward to the new mall.

Isn't there, and hasn't there always been, a plaque commemorating it?
Keep the damn house there and renovate it, it's not like we have a massive shortage of commercial property in this country. Frankly I'm amazed they're going ahead with the whole development, but I suppose they've sunk so much cash into the land bank that they've no choice.

Overall I think the development is a good thing, but have a little subtlety.

Caoimhín

Sharpshooter wrote: »

I'd vote he is asleep right now in preparation for leading the protestants.

No need to bring religion into this.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Upward Spiral wrote: »

A mall sounds more beneficial than a monument at this point in time, tbh

Doesn't Moore Street already have two shopping centres?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Caoimhín wrote: »

No need to bring religion into this.

Amen to that.

.

magick

Upward Spiral wrote: »

A mall sounds more beneficial than a monument at this point in time, tbh

yeah lets destroy all those old buildings because they stand in the way of progress :rolleyes:

sweet Jesus........

arybvtcw0eolkf

Caoimhín wrote: »

No need to bring religion into this.

Leland Elegant Gesture wrote: »

Amen to that.

.

magick wrote: »

sweet Jesus........

Tut tut :P

JayeL

There's a certain amount of that automatic, knee-jerk mantra "old buildings good, new buildings bad" going on with just about every new building in Dublin larger than a shed. And it needs to be questioned as much as the developments themselves.

For example, those who want to commemorate the 1916 rising; what did you do in the past to encourage its renovation? Before this shopping centre plan, what did you do? Were you happy to just leave it there to rot?

This country has far too many people willing to "stand in front of the bulldozers" without thinking. If you want to commemorate the rising, fine. There's a huge big replica of the 1916 GPO around the corner which will probably become a museum in the next decade.

And it is a replica, make no mistake. The original was destroyed. And you know what? I don't think anyone protested when the shell was knocked and it was rebuilt, like most of O'Connell St.

Sometimes we have to move on.

mike65

Dublin board.

Rabies

Volunteer Board or the I Need Traffic so I'm Posting it in After Hours Board

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JayeL wrote: »

There's a certain amount of that automatic, knee-jerk mantra "old buildings good, new buildings bad" going on with just about every new building in Dublin larger than a shed. And it needs to be questioned as much as the developments themselves.

For example, those who want to commemorate the 1916 rising; what did you do in the past to encourage its renovation? Before this shopping centre plan, what did you do? Were you happy to just leave it there to rot?

This country has far too many people willing to "stand in front of the bulldozers" without thinking. If you want to commemorate the rising, fine. There's a huge big replica of the 1916 GPO around the corner which will probably become a museum in the next decade.

And it is a replica, make no mistake. The original was destroyed. And you know what? I don't think anyone protested when the shell was knocked and it was rebuilt, like most of O'Connell St.

Sometimes we have to move on.

...but how is anothre shopping centre "moving on"? I'm not one to dwell on the past or relics of it, but if you're going to put something there in place of it, how about a youth centre or something?

Fulton Crown

A decent modern shopping centre pal..not that clapped out dilapadated huckster hall - the Ilac Centre.

Not that antiquated labarynth that is Arnotts - Dublin is , or should be , a modern city with modern well designed shoppin facilities.

Well done to those with the courage and balls to look FORWARD and not be content with the "ah sure it will do" mentality.

Where can we build decent modern high rise buildings in Dublin ??

Down the docks ? Seems not - still protestors and objectors to any vision in that area.

Agree with OP re that 1916 house..if they were so concerned about it ..why let it fall into disrepair ??.

Letshave some progress for a change ??

JayeL

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

...but how is anothre shopping centre "moving on".....how about a youth centre or something?

Is that needed? From what I've heard (OH works in the sector), there's plenty youth centres there. Plus it'd bring very few jobs.

Moore St is a commercial area, as is Upper O'Connell St, and a shopping centre is progress compared to what that area's like now.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Oh, I'm not saying we should keep it simply because it has historical significance - I'm with you there: move on, move forward.

But there are other things the city needs than shopping centres. Another shoppign centre, at best, is a step sideways rather than a step forward.

The problem is that people are scared of something different. The protestors don't want anything different than what's already there, and the developers don't want something that's... well, already there.

MadsL

if they were so concerned about it ..why let it fall into disrepair ??.

1. for a start 'they' don't own it.

2. Moore st has been allowed to fall into disrepair so that knocking it down becomes an option. The developer buys old buildings, lets them rot and then has justification to knock them down. It's a pattern that Ireland excels at.

3. In ANY other country this would have already been purchased and preserved by the Government. This ain't some back alley, this is in many ways the birthplace of the modern Republic. Damn, I'm a Brit - and I can see how important Moore St is the history of Ireland. Can the rest of ye not see it?

move on, move forward

Was the ESB building on Fitzwilliam st 'moving on?' - if so, well done. Ballsed up that street ever becoming a world heritage site.

Terry

DeVore wrote: »

I was referring to the poster ahead of me who sounded "angry".

I wont be there myself, I've a few things on lately (including a play!) which take up my Sundays. I'm also almost allergic to such public demonstrations as they tend to be hijacked by the SWF types, not to mention SF. Thats a terrible reason not to attend but its unfortunately its also a valid one in my opinion.

It has been a while Madsl, hopefully we'll get a pint soon (as soon as I'm not working 3 part time jobs :eek:)

DeV.

Shockwave Flash?

Anyway, how did standing in the way of progress go?
Are you all happy that you have yet again hindered progress in this country?

What's wrong with a plaque commemorating the events?
When is it ok to actually knock the building down?
100 years?
500 years?
1,000 years?

Let's take things into perspective here.
Those who fought in the rising fought to get rid of the British occupation of Ireland.
They didn't fight to keep historical monuments in place. That was the last thing on their minds.
We (sort of) won, so it's time to move on and allow Dublin become a proper metropolis.
Are we to keep every building that Padraig Pearse took a dump in?

MadsL

I love this 'hindering progress' bull.

Has it occured to you that preserving and interpreting the fabric of historical events, through not actually knocking down the site of a very significant event actually helps an industry struggling at the moment - tourism. Or do you think tourists just want shopping malls when they come to Ireland?

I notice you are a Tiler, vested interest in the construction industry at all?

MadsL

The problem is that people are scared of something different. The protestors don't want anything different than what's already there, and the developers don't want something that's... well, already there

I see you are Berlin at the moment. Could I open my kebab shop at Checkpoint Charlie do you think?? Course, we'd have to knock it first.

S.I.R

did ye have fun hugging each other ?

MadsL

did ye have fun hugging each other ?

Oh well done. Take you long to think of that?
2,582 posts of sarcasm in my brief look. Thank you for your contribution.

ArmaniJeanss

MadsL wrote: »

3. In ANY other country this would have already been purchased and preserved by the Government.

I don't really buy this. A recent example would be Athens where they did major redevelopment of the entire city, new roads, rail and buildings for the 2004 Olympics.
Obviously along the way they came across major historically important sites and artifacts, and they had a 'tag, bag, and drag' system.
Photograph and label everything as to where and when it was found, then take it away in one piece to be stored and displayed somewhere else.
I don't see why a similar method cannot be used for 16 Moore Street.

MadsL wrote: »

This ain't some back alley, this is in many ways the birthplace of the modern Republic.

I disagree with this. Even if we accept Easter Rising is called the Birthplace of the Republic (and thats a stretch to be honest) then what happened in Moore Street is really of minor significance. The majorly important stuff took place at the GPO, at Bolands Mills, Dublin Castle, Dun Laoighaire and eventually, in Kilmainham Jail.
Those places have much more importance in the history of Easter 1916 than Moore Street.

oceanclub

Terry wrote: »

What's wrong with a plaque commemorating the events?
When is it ok to actually knock the building down?
100 years?
500 years?
1,000 years?

I presume Terry that you'd never go to visit those terrible places like Florence and Venice, full of old buildings with hardly a UK high street store in sight.

P.

mardybum

Does anyone know what actually happened today? Saw some people knockin around town in the tshirts while I was waitin for my bus, but didn't check it out on Moore St.

Was too hungry to risk missin my bus and dinner. Shows how much I care. :rolleyes:

gurramok

MadsL wrote: »

I notice you are a Tiler, vested interest in the construction industry at all?

Ouch

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I disagree with this. Even if we accept Easter Rising is called the Birthplace of the Republic (and thats a stretch to be honest) then what happened in Moore Street is really of minor significance. The majorly important stuff took place at the GPO, at Bolands Mills, Dublin Castle, Dun Laoighaire and eventually, in Kilmainham Jail.
Those places have much more importance in the history of Easter 1916 than Moore Street.

Regarding Bolands Mills, its gonna be preserved under strict order or there would be war

On the same street(Barrow st), they managed to build huge apts(Dock Mill i think) but yet kept an old building 'encompassed' within it. It looks fab like a clash of the old and new and i think they could do this with the new shopping centre at Moore st as it would not be a hinderance at all.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JayeL wrote: »

Is that needed? From what I've heard (OH works in the sector), there's plenty youth centres there. Plus it'd bring very few jobs.

Moore St is a commercial area, as is Upper O'Connell St, and a shopping centre is progress compared to what that area's like now.

It was just a suggestion - something for public use rather than private use. There's lots of shops there, too. And I fail to see how it'll create jobs when the govt is cutting back and increasing taxes: where're the customers going to come from?

MadsL wrote: »

I see you are Berlin at the moment. Could I open my kebab shop at Checkpoint Charlie do you think?? Course, we'd have to knock it first.

Berlin has a much better balance between history/commerce/public spaces than Dublin. What's your point?

PrivateEye

Those places have much more importance in the history of Easter 1916 than Moore Street.

Are there but?

*The last meeting of the Prov. Government.

*Patrick Pearse surrendered at the top of Moore Street.

*The O' Rahilly died just off Moore Street.

*James Connolly and Wini Carney prepared the surrender order for the ICA at 16 Moore Street.

I would argue that after the GPO and Kilmainham jail, and maybe the infamous Bridge, this is the most important '1916 site' in Dublin.

Overheal

I'll be there in spirit!

I have absolutely no idea whats going on

ArmaniJeanss

PrivateEye wrote: »

The last meeting of the Prov. Government.

*Patrick Pearse surrendered at the top of Moore Street.

*The O' Rahilly died just off Moore Street.

*James Connolly and Wini Carney prepared the surrender order for the ICA at 16 Moore Street.

I would argue that after the GPO and Kilmainham jail, and maybe the infamous Bridge, this is the most important '1916 site' in Dublin.

I respect your argument, but to be honest your 2nd and 3rd point take away from it a bit as they imply that that the building in question in Moore Street isn't that strategically important. They imply that Moore St itself is far more important to our heritage than any particular dwelling on it.

I'm a history fan (it was my only A grade in my Leaving Cert) but I've never seen a convincing argument against this particular redevelopment.

Hippo

As I understand it the protest (at least the relatives of the signatories' one) is not against the re-development of the site, but rather to ensure it does not encroach on what is in fact a national monument. This compromise should be possible to achieve with a little imagination.

Executive Steve

i just hope the old ladies selling fruit and the little chinese and african shops can stay, moore street would be nothing without them

gnxx

As far as I know, the original checkpoint charlie was pretty much knocked down to allow for development I think they rebuilt parts of it at a later point.

MadsL wrote: »

I see you are Berlin at the moment. Could I open my kebab shop at Checkpoint Charlie do you think?? Course, we'd have to knock it first.

humanji

gnxx wrote: »

As far as I know, the original checkpoint charlie was pretty much knocked down to allow for development I think they rebuilt parts of it at a later point.

Plus, it's in the middle of the road, so people might complain about it disrupting traffic.

BaconZombie

Checkpoint Charlie is FAKE, it has been completed rebuilt.

The soldier in the picture has a patch he got for serving in Desert Storm?!?!


Edit:

Also the part of the "The Wall" at Charlie was moved from somewhere else.

MadsL wrote: »

I see you are Berlin at the moment. Could I open my kebab shop at Checkpoint Charlie do you think?? Course, we'd have to knock it first.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

BOFH_139 wrote: »

Checkpoint Charlie is FAKE, it has been completed rebuilt.

The soldier in the picture has a patch he got for serving in Desert Storm?!?!


Edit:

Also the part of the "The Wall" at Charlie was moved from somewhere else.

And there's a kebab shop there already.