FAS Failing to provide courses

panner

Just posted this in the wrong section, would be better suited here. Just some info on how Ive been let down by FAS.....


Hello not sure if this is in the right section. I have been unemployed since January, I am a fully qualified plumber and finding it difficult to secure work.

Been looking at the idea of working abroad as a pipe fitter and found my chances of finding work would be better If I could also weld.

I decided to sign up for a FAS welding course to obtain the certificates and decided to limit my search for work until I completed the course.

I went to the induction day and was glad to hear they were providing a shorter 6 week course for people in my situation (having welding experience).
2 weeks later I had to do a interview and a welding test. The instructor was happy and after some discussion, I was given a possible start date. I was expecting to start the course on the 20th of April.

I have been waiting for some kind of conformation letter since then and nothings arrived. Just made a phone call and now I've been told the course is no longer available and they are working on providing another course. The FAS rep said sorry for not giving any notification as they have no information to provide. She asked if I would ring back on Monday as there should be some information available by then, the chances are unlikely as its now Friday afternoon.

So there you go folks, not only can government secure existing employment they cant even provide a reliable training service to help get people back into employment.

Here is another example of how the government and its associations are proving there incompetence.

A week or two back a social welfare representative called out to me as part of routine checks. I mentioned how there is pretty much no plumbing jobs available. Her suggestion was to go sign up with FAS and do a training course or set up my own company and become self employed.

I told her I have already applied for a course and I couldn't become self employed as I would need to have public liability insurance in the event of an accident or damage etc. I would have to take out a loan and the banks are not lending especially to unemployed.

Her answer to this was, "ah you could get away without it?"

segaBOY

panner wrote: »

I told her I have already applied for a course and I couldn't become self employed as I would need to have public liability insurance in the event of an accident or damage etc. I would have to take out a loan and the banks are not lending especially to unemployed.

Her answer to this was, "ah you could get away without it?"

:rolleyes: Doesn't surprise me in the slightest tbh.

Some of these "officials" have no clue about the real world. Have similar stories from someone I know working in the HSE about their welfare officers and their ignorant way of thinking but this isn't the time or place.

Best of luck getting back on your feet-all you can do is keep trying, it will come good eventually.

dh0661

segaBOY wrote: »

:rolleyes: Doesn't surprise me in the slightest tbh.
Some of these "officials" have no clue about the real world.

I have heard some similar stories myself from connections I have in the fresh food sector, by all accounts these officials are reading far too much into EU directives ETC, just trying to make and keep themselves in a job.

Sad state of affairs really as the same EU directives are not regimentally enforced in other EU countries.

panner

dh0661 wrote: »

I have heard some similar stories myself from connections I have in the fresh food sector, by all accounts these officials are reading far too much into EU directives ETC, just trying to make and keep themselves in a job.

Sad state of affairs really as the same EU directives are not regimentally enforced in other EU countries.

Its a terrible way to treat people I find. I cant see any systems being put into place in order to manage and cope with the massive job losses. All the effort is going into the banking system.

I have been working and paying my taxes non stop year in year out for 14 years. The same as thousands of others who are also in my situation. I feel we have been robbed.

x in the city

FAS

whaddya expect

I did a e course with them and stopped after 20 mins

waste of time, useless muppets of the highest order and a waste of tax payers money

lostexpectation

I went to the induction day and was glad to hear they were providing a shorter 6 week course for people in my situation (having welding experience).

so was there another course you could still go on?

BostonB

Fas probably run a good few of these courses around the country and every one and their brother is trying to get on them. If you got chummy with who you're dealing with in Fas maybe they'd get you a place on another course some where else in the country.

panner

lostexpectation wrote: »

so was there another course you could still go on?

FAS offer plenty of courses but the waiting lists are high and I cant think of another course that would assist me in gaining employment. I am already fully qualified as a plumber and having welding certificate would increase my chances of finding work both here and abroad.

I originally signed up for the 26 week welder/fabricator course and was placed on a shorter 6 week course. They made the new course "available" to those who already have welding experience but did not have the certificates.

I attended the interview and welding exam and the instructor was happy with my welding ability's. Since I have been already offered some welding work in Canada FAS were willing to speed up the process and get me on the next available course. I was given the 20th of April.

All the above took place during mid march and I was pretty much certain of my place and looking forward to obtaining the certs.

After all that time I was given no notification of the course being cancelled and no further information on any future courses.

panner

BostonB wrote: »

Fas probably run a good few of these courses around the country and every one and their brother is trying to get on them. If you got chummy with who you're dealing with in Fas maybe they'd get you a place on another course some where else in the country.

I spoke with the instructor and he told me FAS would accommodate those who have a plan/job offers and put them further up the list, ahead of those who are looking to "try out" a new career or trade.

While at the interview there was a handful of people who had to travel some distance as the course was not available in there area.

The massive job losses is obviously effecting the whole process of FAS and that's understandable. There handling of the situation is terrible and they cant be relied upon to further your education.

BostonB

There's ways a wait to get on any course never mind one on big demand. What was the reason for canceling this one. Don't you just get on the next one instead. Why would you not take the work offered in Canada. The Fas course is only to get you work. Most likely work not in Ireland. Could you do the pipe welding course in Canada and be working?

UnderpantsGnome

panner wrote: »

Her answer to this was, "ah you could get away without it?"

I really think you should report her. Although nothing would probably come of it.

panner

BostonB wrote: »

There's ways a wait to get on any course never mind one on big demand. What was the reason for canceling this one. Don't you just get on the next one instead. Why would you not take the work offered in Canada. The Fas course is only to get you work. Most likely work not in Ireland. Could you do the pipe welding course in Canada and be working?

Have been given no reason for its cancellation. Have been given no information on any future courses similar to the one I applied for. In order for me to secure the position in Canada I have to have welding certificates.

I cant understand how they can offer you a course and a start date and then withdraw with out any notification.

BostonB

Maybe something happened to the instructor, or the location who knows. Just wait in their office still someone gets the info. Nothing like sitting in someones face to get what you want. They'll give you the info to get rid of you.

If you had a secure job offer, could you pay and do the course somewhere else?

smilingeyerish

Do you know what teh worst thing of all is? the stupid government we have now is in the process of taking all funding from a really GOOD training company call Skillnets (private company but publicly funded, are kinda like Fas)who have exceeded all training targets and they are going to give all their money to Fas, the government are absolute eejits, they dont know what they are doing.

Madge

I empathise with the OP.
I recently completed a course with them. I was eager to go on to the next advanced stage of it and rang and left a message enquiring about it and left my number etc. They never got back to me :mad: so I rang them again and was told they aren't running it, there's not enough people...

BostonB

smilingeyerish wrote: »

Do you know what teh worst thing of all is? the stupid government we have now is in the process of taking all funding from a really GOOD training company call Skillnets (private company but publicly funded, are kinda like Fas)who have exceeded all training targets and they are going to give all their money to Fas, the government are absolute eejits, they dont know what they are doing.

Do they do a welding course the OP can do or something?

BostonB

o

Madge wrote: »

I empathise with the OP.
I recently completed a course with them. I was eager to go on to the next advanced stage of it and rang and left a message enquiring about it and left my number etc. They never got back to me :mad: so I rang them again and was told they aren't running it, there's not enough people...

Seems like nowhere rings you back these days. I think that's very poor. But as for I courses with not enough people that's a pity but I guess you can't have half empty classes either.

CorkFenian

FAS are really beyond a joke...Have gone into check on stuff..Twice they have cancelled appointments...By this I mean I have gone in at 10 am and they have said "Come back tomorrow at 9.30 and we will organise a time for you to meet someone".Went in, waited for 2 hrs before being told their organiser was over booked..I did this twice...And just gave up on them..It was with a view to Ecollege for CCNA...I have all the required stuff for studying anyway CBT Nuggets etc..(Found out on their site thats its 26 weeks so lost slight interest after that)..Found the experience soul destroying to be honest.I anticipate some slowness cos of current situation.But all I could think of was that the lads who work at FAS have massively dropped the ball and been on holidays for the past 10 years..It should be taken apart from top down and rebranded for current workforce needs..Very few people really need ECDL or learner like courses etc like courses from 10 years ago IMO..

BostonB

Let people pay to do the courses privately. End of problem. No point the taxpayer paying for courses that don't get people jobs. They'd be cheaper for the taxpayer on the dole.

panner

BostonB wrote: »

Maybe something happened to the instructor, or the location who knows. Just wait in their office still someone gets the info. Nothing like sitting in someones face to get what you want. They'll give you the info to get rid of you.

If you had a secure job offer, could you pay and do the course somewhere else?

I don't know of any other courses and I have been out of work since January. Job seekers benefit is not enough to cover my out goings and my savings are running low at the moment so FAS was my only option.

I got to limit my travel so best thing I can do is call again on Monday.

panner

BostonB wrote: »

Let people pay to do the courses privately. End of problem. No point the taxpayer paying for courses that don't get people jobs. They'd be cheaper for the taxpayer on the dole.

That's true in a way. I have been through the whole FAS process before, having completed my apprenticeship. The amount of people taking on a FAS funded course with no view of seeking employment in the course area is unbelievable.

The sole reason for taking part in the course is to do with a requirement from the social welfare. So basically they are taking part in the course to stay on social welfare. Its a double blow to the tax payer.

My situation is different, Ive paid my tax for many years and during those times, the only burden I made on the governments coffers was spending 3 days in hospital.

All I am asking for is 6 weeks training to obtain certificates which would put me in a better situation to secure work.

artyeva

in some ways i'm in a similar position to the OP. I had signed up tp a 26 weeks course that would lead to a FETAC qualification, but at no notice at all they cancelled the course. Their reasoning for this was that they had ''received directives'' that they were to run more short courses in order to get more people through training in a shorter amount of time.

In the case of the course I wanted to do they split the 2 subjects of the long course into 2 shorter 6 weeks courses. Trouble is, neither of these 2 courses would lead to any qualification at all, so were not really of any real use on your CV. They said that the original course MAY be run again in September but that they were waiting till after the budget to see if the funding was approved for it.

As of yesterday they were still not sure if the funding would go ahead. ''It takes a while for these things to filter down to us'' was the line I was given.

Yesterday as it happens one of the Fas officials was on the front pages of a newspaper after it was revealed over the course of 8 years he had spent €400,000 of taxpayers money on dinner and drinks or whatever. How many 26 week course would €400,000 fund I wonder??? :rolleyes:

CorkFenian

Have taken private courses in the past and will continue to do...As I said I made some enquires with FAS but found them to be a joke.Unfortunately BostonB I can't see your idea catching on..FAS arent going to make themselves redundant which is what they would be doing if they did that..(Mores the pity!) FAS executives seem to think that they're CEOS of Coca Cola rather than a small inept national jobs training agency...IDA and FAS crossover for a lot..Hard to distinguish them TBH when it comes to "job creation and travel around the globe"

panner

artyeva wrote: »

in some ways i'm in a similar position to the OP. I had signed up tp a 26 weeks course that would lead to a FETAC qualification, but at no notice at all they cancelled the course. Their reasoning for this was that they had ''received directives'' that they were to run more short courses in order to get more people through training in a shorter amount of time.

In the case of the course I wanted to do they split the 2 subjects of the long course into 2 shorter 6 weeks courses. Trouble is, neither of these 2 courses would lead to any qualification at all, so were not really of any real use on your CV. They said that the original course MAY be run again in September but that they were waiting till after the budget to see if the funding was approved for it.

As of yesterday they were still not sure if the funding would go ahead. ''It takes a while for these things to filter down to us'' was the line I was given.

Yesterday as it happens one of the Fas officials was on the front pages of a newspaper after it was revealed over the course of 8 years he had spent €400,000 of taxpayers money on dinner and drinks or whatever. How many 26 week course would €400,000 fund I wonder??? :rolleyes:

This is the kind of answer I am going to expect on Monday. Another great example of the half arsed directionless no notification cock ups that are continually happening with every government funded service.

BostonB

I'd say to anyone going into these places. Hospitals FAS whatever. Have your questions prepared in advance, written down. Get the names of who you talk to write them down, write down their answers, get their email, and direct phone numbers and after wards send them an email confirming all thats said. Don't accept vague answers. Thats just fobbing you off, and if someone can't give you an answer get the name of their manager and ask them the same question. Find out where you are on the queue exactly. These people always know.

In IT as a contractor or as an employee you almost always end up paying for your own training, so the idea of the taxpayer funding someone else's training is a bit weird to me. Especially if you are all saying its achieves nothing.

CorkFenian

BostonB wrote: »

I'd say to anyone going into these places. Hospitals FAS whatever. Have your questions prepared in advance, written down. Get the names of who you talk to write them down, write down their answers, get their email, and direct phone numbers and after wards send them an email confirming all thats said. Don't accept vague answers. Thats just fobbing you off, and if someone can't give you an answer get the name of their manager and ask them the same question. Find out where you are on the queue exactly. These people always know.

In IT as a contractor or as an employee you almost always end up paying for your own training, so the idea of the taxpayer funding someone else's training is a bit weird to me. Especially if you are all saying its achieves nothing.

Well in my case as I said..I looked into it as I was told by friend that Ecollege covered costs of CCNA exams for unemployed which is my right...(I'm not going ahead with it due to FAS and length of course)..I agree with your points..Just can't see it happening anytime soon...I know of people who have done 2-3 FAS courses over a 2 year period..And the people who its essentially meant for.. i.e Those who want to work don't qualify..It needs to be changed ASAP..Now is a perfect time to do it IMHO..

the_syco

CorkFenian wrote: »

Very few people really need ECDL or learner like courses etc like courses from 10 years ago IMO..

Having worked in IT support for a few years at this stage, I think people should be forceably taught ECDL when they buy a PC :mad:

artyeva

BostonB wrote: »

the idea of the taxpayer funding someone else's training is a bit weird to me.

So... erm... with all due respect... where would you suggest that someone who was in low-paid employment during the supposed ''boom time'' and who is now redundant gets the money to do it??????

For a lot of people Fas is the only viable option of re-training.

If the high-ups in Fas hadn't squandered so much money maybe there would be more opportunities for people like me to get some kind of training that would actually get me a job so I could start paying taxes again.

Rant over.

BostonB

From what others are saying here is you can't get on a course and even if you did they aren't any good and won't help to get you a job. Based on that there's no point in doing these courses and certainly no point throwing away money on them.

Or are you disagreeing with that?

The Fas budget is about a billion but he majority of that is the wages of the people on courses. It might be drop in the ocean compared to bailing out the banks and developers but if it's just funding somepeoples travel and big lunches what's the point of paying it?

BostonB

the_syco wrote: »

Having worked in IT support for a few years at this stage, I think people should be forceably taught ECDL when they buy a PC :mad:

LOL while I agree with you I'm not sure it going to help someone get a job and I don't want to have to pay for it through tax.

artyeva

BostonB wrote: »

From what others are saying here is you can't get on a course and even if you did they aren't any good and won't help to get you a job. Based on that there's no point in doing these courses and certainly no point throwing away money on them.

Or are you disagreeing with that?

um, yes I am disagreeing with that. :mad: If you read previous posts you'll see that the course i wanted to do would have led to a recognised qualification. Am i sure it would have got me a job? no - but at least it's more of a chance than i have now.

as you keep mentioning it you seem to have an issue here with your tax money going to fund fas. i suggest you write to your local TD and complain if you feel that strongly.:rolleyes:

ITDept

panner wrote: »

Been looking at the idea of working abroad as a pipe fitter and found my chances of finding work would be better If I could also weld.

So the Irish tax payers should fund your training so you can then catch the first flight out? No sympathy I'm afraid.

I went through FÁS recently and found the training to be very good. The only problem (apart from the top brass spending vast sums - but I didn't know about that at the time) lay with some of the other students who were there only to keep the dole off their backs. You're always going to get some bad apples though.

I'm still in touch with my tutor who tells me they're all being pushed to run shorter courses, but he's not that bothered as he felt his course could have been shortened anyway.

BostonB

artyeva wrote: »

um, yes I am disagreeing with that. :mad: If you read previous posts you'll see that the course i wanted to do would have led to a recognised qualification. Am i sure it would have got me a job? no - but at least it's more of a chance than i have now.

as you keep mentioning it you seem to have an issue here with your tax money going to fund fas. i suggest you write to your local TD and complain if you feel that strongly.:rolleyes:

I've never done a Fas course but the impression from this thread i get is they don't get people jobs. So what's the point of paying for them then?

panner

ITDept wrote: »

So the Irish tax payers should fund your training so you can then catch the first flight out? No sympathy I'm afraid.

That's fair enough. You have a right to have you opinion. I have no choice but to look for work abroad. There is "NO" work here. I have a mortgage and loans to pay.

Would you rather I took my 204 euro and some rent allowance and sit on my ass doing nothing at your expense and also have your tax money cover the banks increasing amount of bad debts?

panner

BostonB wrote: »

I've never done a Fas course but the impression from this thread i get is they don't get people jobs. So what's the point of paying for them then?

There is a few who take on FAS courses in order to stay on the social welfare. That number is extremely minimal compared to the thousands of trades people and professionals that have successfully completed a course and are working and servicing countries both here and abroad.

I was one of those people and worked in my trade here for many years. Unfortunately my trade is not the best one to be in at the moment so I would like to return to FAS, obtain some certificates and get back to work.

Due to the way things are here this is proving difficult and its highlighting the fact that a back to work system is also being effected.

When you have massive job losses and a ineffective system to help people get back into to work, the situation is very bad.

artyeva

BostonB wrote: »

I've never done a Fas course but the impression from this thread i get is they don't get people jobs. So what's the point of paying for them then?

so here's a hypothetical situation:

you apply for jobs you're more than able to do but every employer so far has come back to say ''ya if only you had a qualification in x,y or z''. You're on social welfare and can barely make ends meet. you've sold any of your possessions that had any value so you can keep the ESB on. you've researched every possible outlet of doing a course in x,y,and z and the only one that you can afford is Fas. Do you not take that vain hope of an opportunity??

maybe you're doing ok and you're in employment and if you need to upskill or train in something new, you just pay the fee and whoop dee doo.

i can't.

get over it.:mad:

doolox

I have been with FAS for a year now on an Industrial Automation course, one of their longer courses. I come from an Electronics background and am finding job hunting a challenge, to say the least.
The recent job losses in Dell, Xylinx and SR technics won't help my case as there will be thousands of people better experienced than me flooding the marketplace looking for jobs at any price just to keep their heads above water in this recession.
I am lucky in that I did not subscribe to the debt fuelled spending spree pushed on us by the powers-that-be during the celtic tiger era.( That cat has alot to answer for.......)
I find that the course will broaden my knowledge for future jobs but I am under no illusion of it being a quick fix to my jobless state. I will have to go back to college and continue education in order to succeed in that.
Nothing less than a distinction will do in that course however and that will be very difficult to get as I am weak at maths.
I fear that a pass in such a course will be too little for the demanding jobs market we all face for the next 5-10 years.
I am lucky in that I am 50 yrs old, another 5 years on that and I'd probably be dumped into early ( and poor ) retirement. I am also lucky in that I already have a Diploma in electronics which I might be able to expand on with courses in IT to start a self-employed career in that direction or work for someone else but it is very stressful and competitive and users are often not the most resourceful and clever at getting their needs across.
I do not suffer fools gladly and you need to have endless patience in any line of customer support.
I have found FAS to be a good experience but am puzzled by the differences in work performance from the good tutors and those who simply don't give a damn. It seems to have little in the way of pressure and urgency one finds in an open trading multinational where I was always found wanting and always told to hurry up and do more. Here in FAS I am always told to take your time and your doing fine. Those I am doing the course with tell me the real world is very different and I know it is but feel sorry for the 18 year olds for whom this is the first taste of working life.
One good thing is that some of the older tutors will question people very thoroughly and put them to task to explain everything they do in precise technical language which is what is in more demand in the outside world.

BostonB

artyeva wrote: »

so here's a hypothetical situation:

you apply for jobs you're more than able to do but every employer so far has come back to say ''ya if only you had a qualification in x,y or z''. You're on social welfare and can barely make ends meet. you've sold any of your possessions that had any value so you can keep the ESB on. you've researched every possible outlet of doing a course in x,y,and z and the only one that you can afford is Fas. Do you not take that vain hope of an opportunity??

maybe you're doing ok and you're in employment and if you need to upskill or train in something new, you just pay the fee and whoop dee doo.

i can't.

get over it.:mad:

Last time I tried to get on a Fas course when i wasnt working they said Id be waiting 2 yrs maybe longer. 3 yrs later they sent me some info about a job offer. Impressive stuff.

the_syco

panner wrote: »

That number is extremely minimal compared to the thousands of trades people and professionals that have successfully completed a course and are working and servicing countries both here and abroad.

When the FAS class that I did first started, the tutor said something along the lines of "some of you will be here to learn, whilst others are here to keep their dole money, or to escape from your wives, but no matter what, I'll teach you all"... out of the 20 or so of us, I suspected at least 2 of them where not there to learn, as they generally did feck all.

panner

I am sorry to say the course you have been waiting for since January is no longer available. We have "internal problems" and due to cut backs we have lost "one or two instructors".

I have no information about any future course, the best thing for you to do is return to your local FAS office and see if a similar course is available.

After passing the welding exam and interview some time ago I was given today as the course start date. Since then FAS have given me no notification of course cancelation. A lot of my future plans had depended on this course and I was right to do so.

This is proof that there is "NO" effective system in place to help those out of work get back into work.

I have just heard on the news that AIB have put there hand out for more money as the billions they have allready recieved is not enough.

BostonB

Theres future courses on the FAS website. Maybe not in your location though.

Xiney

I'm on the waiting list for a nine week FETAC accredited manual & computerized accounts course. Kind of like you panner, I can do the stuff but I haven't got a cert. Just hoping it helps me get a job.

Anyway, I rang today because it's supposed to start on 11 May, (3 weeks from today) and this thread made me nervous that they were going to cancel it. I'm on the "waiting list", whatever that means, and I hope I get picked to take it. I've only been unemployed since December though, so who knows. They said I should know by the end of the week or the start of next.



...fingers crossed, anyway.