New Gibson Les Pauls

KevLeppard

Hi guys, just looking for a bit of advice before I get a brand new Les Paul.

Basically, I heard the newest ones have been "chambered". What exactly does this mean?? I could be wrong, but is it to do with making the guitar physically lighter??

Does it affect the tone of the guitar, the level of sustain (assuming the guitar is lighter). Personally I like the weight of a heavy Les Paul, but thats just me.

In a nutshell, should I stay well away from them and go for an older model??

Last Angry Man

KevLeppard wrote: »

Hi guys, just looking for a bit of advice before I get a brand new Les Paul.

Basically, I heard the newest ones have been "chambered". What exactly does this mean?? I could be wrong, but is it to do with making the guitar physically lighter??

Does it affect the tone of the guitar, the level of sustain (assuming the guitar is lighter). Personally I like the weight of a heavy Les Paul, but thats just me.

In a nutshell, should I stay well away from them and go for an older model??

Well I have a 99 which is neither chambered nor weight relieved and a 2007 with Bigsby which I think is chambered and there really isn't a noticeable tone penalty. In fact the newer one has 57s and as a result it is my favorite sound wise. The 99 now has EMGs in it and is still really warm which might be down to all that wood but I don't know.

I recently played a new LP Standard and it sounded great - it was also played through my own rig back to back with my other guitars - with no issues with tone or sustain. My only issue was that the lighter guitar felt odd since I am used to the heavier ones and that would put me off but thats all.

I'd say go with what you feel but FWIW I'd buy a used custom before a new standard any day - the more scratched the better!

Now prepare for the Gibson bashing and the Bacchus pimping!!!

darrenw5094

Amazed people have not tried to talk you out of buying a Gibson by now. There are other alternatives, maybe even better than Gibson.

But, if it's a Gibson Les Paul Standard you want, the new model that came out in July 2009 was better than all the recent Gibsons over the past 10 years.

Do price around online because you could save hundreds from various websites.
Apart from Thomann, try the UK sites.
www.gak.co.uk
www.dolphinmusic.co.uk
www.dv247.com

Dord

Last Angry Man wrote: »

Well I have a 99 which is neither chambered nor weight relieved and a 2007 with Bigsby which I think is chambered and there really isn't a noticeable tone penalty.

Your '99 Les Paul has weight relief holes (shown below) and your 2007 Les Paul has chambering (also shown below). The weight relief begain in 1982 as Gibson was increasingly using cheaper woods for the bodies which happened to weigh more. So in order to keep the weight down they drilled out some of it.

In the current line up the studio, classic and standard and supreme have chambering while the traditional uses the weight relief holes. The only Les Pauls currently produced without it are the VOS Reissues and other custom shop guitars. The Les Paul junior, Melody Maker, SG, Explorer, V and others without maple caps aren't weight relieved or chambered unless the model specifies that.

So, to summarise... if you wanted a Les Paul without chambering or weight relief you would have to go very early 80's or before. Otherwise there are some other well known Japanese brands that make them without weight relief. :pac:

Gibson say that the LP's now have increased sustain and are louder... I'm not sure bout that though.

Chambering



Weight Relief - also known as Swiss cheese


The darker sections are hollow or have material removed.

darrenw5094

Are the Custom models chambered too??
Or is it just the Standard......

rcaz

Does chambering/weight relief seem a bit fraudulent to anyone else? Kinda seems like Gibson are trying to pull a fast one...

Dord

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Are the Custom models chambered too??
Or is it just the Standard......

The custom is made by the Custom shop and uses the old "swiss cheese" weight relief. I think they did a limited run chambered custom a while back though.

Dord

El Pr0n wrote: »

Does chambering/weight relief seem a bit fraudulent to anyone else? Kinda seems like Gibson are trying to pull a fast one...

Yep. Seems like that to me. One of the reasons why I wouldn't buy a regular Les Paul from them. Personally I wouldn't want a chambered or weight relief guitar unless it was a hollowbody (like a thinline type thing with F holes).

Hell, my LP junior probably has more wood in it than a Standard these days!

Doctor J

darrenw5094 wrote: »

But, if it's a Gibson Les Paul Standard you want, the new model that came out in July 2009 was better than all the recent Gibsons over the past 10 years.

Ehhhh... that better be a typo or my time-machine worked unexpectedly :pac:

BuddhaJoe

El Pr0n wrote: »

Does chambering/weight relief seem a bit fraudulent to anyone else? Kinda seems like Gibson are trying to pull a fast one...

Yes. I did a bit of Googling and it seems that Les Pauls 10 years ago seem to weigh the same as these new 'weight relieved' Les Pauls. One might assume from this that Gibson are now using cheaper, heavier mahogany :eek:

Dord

BuddhaJoe wrote: »

Yes. I did a bit of Googling and it seems that Les Pauls 10 years ago seem to weigh the same as these new 'weight relieved' Les Pauls. One might assume from this that Gibson are now using cheaper, heavier mahogany :eek:

That's because the ones from 10 years ago were weight relieved also!

BuddhaJoe

Dord wrote: »

That's because the ones from 10 years ago were weight relieved also!

Ah crap Well there goes that conspiracy :pac:

Doctor J

Heavy wood does not always equal cheap wood. Maybe Gibson are just trying to keep the guitars around a specific target weight and that's why they're scooping the innards out? Not everyone likes a heavy guitar and maybe they think they can make some inroads against Fender by providing instruments reasonably closer in weight. Personally, I quite like something with a bit of mass to it, but I'm a big fella and I can understand why halflings might find heavier instruments uncomfortable over longer periods.

Welease

El Pr0n wrote: »

Does chambering/weight relief seem a bit fraudulent to anyone else? Kinda seems like Gibson are trying to pull a fast one...

To me .. No..

They have been made that way for years, and they don't try to hide it. It's part of the design.
Most people buy a guitar based on the sound/feel/look rather than if the insides have been scooped out.
I would imagine Gisbon have looked into this before making a decision, after all it would be cheaper to leave the wood inside the guitar rather than tool up, and spend the time routing each guitar out. I have no idea if it's done for weight based on customer feedback, sound/sustain when using different mahogany etc.. but given that it costs extra to do, I would imagine if they could have avoided doing it they would have.

Of course, I could be wrong

Demeyes

I wouldn't be bothered buying a brand new Les Paul, you can get a good condition one used for a much better price.
Also, the chambering picture above seems to show an awful lot of wood gone. Anyone know how deep the chambers are?

Dord

Demeyes wrote: »

I wouldn't be bothered buying a brand new Les Paul, you can get a good condition one used for a much better price.
Also, the chambering picture above seems to show an awful lot of wood gone. Anyone know how deep the chambers are?

Not sure exactly... but here is a picture of a Semi-Hollowbody Gretsch 6128 from the 50's. Comparing this to the Les Paul, I think the LP should now be reclassified as semi hollow body guitar, as its no longer a solidbody.

darrenw5094

Doctor J wrote: »

Ehhhh... that better be a typo or my time-machine worked unexpectedly :pac:

Sorry....i wasn't talking about chambering etc.
I was talking about the improvements.....tonepros hardware, plek system for frets etc.

Any chance i could borrow that time machine......1967.......the Darrenw5094 Experience goes on tour.

KevLeppard

Thanks guys, got a lot of things cleared up there.

So basically, in a nut shell the only real difference is the weight.

Thanks to all who posted. I will just have to try it out for myself, as I do like the weight of a Les Paul.

Dord

KevLeppard wrote: »

So basically, in a nut shell the only real difference is the weight.

Well... also there's the fact that they're essentially almost semi-hollowbody guitars now. The tone is going to be different as a result.

darrenw5094

A lot of people here think that Gibson have gone to the dogs.

Dord

A lot of people may be right...

darrenw5094

If you want a real Gibson, buy a PRS McCarty model. Second hand for about €1300. Well, that's how much mine cost me.

Engineered by Ted McCarty, chairman of Gibson in the 1960's.
He also invented the Flying V, so he must what he is doing.

There are other Les Paul options too. Edwards would be the best value out there, but it doesn't have the Gibson badge, that is worth about €1100.

Duff_Man

are the edwards les pauls chambered? reason i ask is my current les paul is too heavy for my bad back and i was looking to get a new standard...i played a few in x-music and i was pleasantly suprised at the sound i was getting from essentially a hollowbodied guitar. i must of gotten a rare decent one of the batch...who knows!!

Ravelleman

Duff_Man wrote: »

are the edwards les pauls chambered? reason i ask is my current les paul is too heavy for my bad back and i was looking to get a new standard...i played a few in x-music and i was pleasantly suprised at the sound i was getting from essentially a hollowbodied guitar. i must of gotten a rare decent one of the batch...who knows!!

Edwards aren't chambered. But they probably aren't made from the same variety of mahogany that Gibson uses. Generally cheaper Japanese guitars will use similar Asian species of wood, which are more easy to obtain in the orient. The ash you find being used for a MIJ Tele is going to be different to that of an MIA Tele.

And I disagree with the description of recent Les Paul's as 'hollowbodied' guitars. They are at the very most semi-hollowbodied guitars and I think that even that is stretching it.

To me hollowbodied implies definite chambers in the guitar's body which are designed to affect it's tone. The construction of a hollowbody is also quite different to that of a solidbody. New Gibson Les Pauls are solidbody guitars, which have simply had holes drilled in them. A Gretsch White Falcon, in comparison, is a hollowbody by design and by construction. The materials and techniques used to build them are different.

Ravelleman

Dord wrote: »

Well... also there's the fact that they're essentially almost semi-hollowbody guitars now. The tone is going to be different as a result.

What does a Fender Strat with a swimming pool rout qualify as?

Duff_Man

Ravelleman wrote: »

Edwards aren't chambered. But they probably aren't made from the same variety of mahogany that Gibson uses. Generally cheaper Japanese guitars will use similar Asian species of wood, which are more easy to obtain in the orient. The ash you find being used for a MIJ Tele is going to be different to that of an MIA Tele.

And I disagree with the description of recent Les Paul's as 'hollowbodied' guitars. They are at the very most semi-hollowbodied guitars and I think that even that is stretching it.

To me hollowbodied implies definite chambers in the guitar's body which are designed to affect it's tone. The construction of a hollowbody is also quite different to that of a solidbody. New Gibson Les Pauls are solidbody guitars, which have simply had holes drilled in them. A Gretsch White Falcon, in comparison, is a hollowbody by design and by construction. The materials and techniques used to build them are different.

so basically the awnser is no? the edwards arent chambered/weight reliefed

Smiler

Personally I like the weight of the older Les Pauls. I have a 02 Studio and it's heavier then a new standard.

If your looking for a new les paul with a bit of weight in it try the Les Paul Traditional as one of the other lads said.

There's a nice weight to them.