how can you determine at what pace to do your easy runs ?

Seres

on the days that i am suppose to do easy runs i never know what pace to be running at , anyone can help me ?

Running Bing

Seres wrote: »

on the days that i am suppose to do easy runs i never know what pace to be running at , anyone can help me ?

This does my head in.

Ive done a lot of searching for a definitive answer but I never got a satisfactory one.

The general rules seems to be it should feel easy and comfortable, you should be able to hold a conversation and your HR should be below 80% of MHR.

McMillan calculator and Daniels book give paces for easy runs (based on race performance) but I personally dont like the idea of trying to stay to a target pace on an easy run.



What I would really like to know is what are the benefits of going faster (and the drawbacks of going slower) on easy runs? For example lets say one day I do an easy run at 8:30 pace and my HR is 158 and the next day I do an easy run at 9:30 pace and my HR is at 142....is there really that much of a difference? Which would give better benefits?


I have also heard Scott Douglas say that its better to just go by how you feel and mix it up so somedays if your feeling bad your easy runs might be right up at 11 min/mile pace and other days when your feeling good you might push it a bit on easy runs. I like this approach but I am always very conscious of wheter I am doing my easy runs to fast or to slow.

Seres

i understand stand what your saying , i feel the easy run thing so ambiguous , are easy runsjust for recovery ? are there consequences for running them too fast or too slow ?

nerraw1111

I heard the conversation theory too.

If you can hold a conversation, you're not running hard enough according to the Guardian running guide. Would recommend it:


So stands to reason, a easy run would be one in which you can talk easily.

Peckham

There's a difference between "easy runs" and "recovery runs". The former is just a bog standard putting in the miles type run and generally in the range of 6 to 15 miles, pace is kept constant throughout and from a marathon perspective (what I'm most familiar with) is about 10-20% slower than your marathon pace. Recovery runs on the other hand is something that you'd do on the day/2nd day after a long run or tough session. It would generally be at least 20% below marathon pace, although is very much depending on how you feel. Should feel very easy, and is a short run of no more than 5 miles. Purpose is to get blood flowing to the muscles to assist recovery - nothing else.

Common mistake is to do these runs too quickly, and then you're into "junk miles" territory as has been discussed a lot here recently.

Peckham

nerraw1111 wrote: »

If you can hold a conversation, you're not running hard enough according to the Guardian running guide.

You're running too hard if that's the case You should rarely run faster than conversation speed - only on speedwork should this be an issue.

Running Bing

Seres wrote: »

i understand stand what your saying , i feel the easy run thing so ambiguous , are easy runsjust for recovery ? are there consequences for running them too fast or too slow ?

I think they help with aerobic endurance as well and in general make you a more efficient runner.

I always feel they are a necessary evil.....you cant run hard every day if the week so you need something to do in between the hard sessions and thats were easy runs come in. Maybe that is the wrong attitude to have though:p

nerraw1111

Really?

I feel if I can hold a conversation with ease while running, the pace is too slow. By ease, I mean, I'm slightly out of breath after a sentence or two.

Seres

Babybing wrote: »

I think they help with aerobic endurance as well and in general make you a more efficient runner.

I always feel they are a necessary evil.....you cant run hard every day if the week so you need something to do in between the hard sessions and thats were easy runs come in. Maybe that is the wrong attitude to have though:p

after reading peckhams post , i think i agree with you

Running Bing

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Really?

I feel if I can hold a conversation with ease while running, the pace is too slow. By ease, I mean, I'm slightly out of breath after a sentence or two.

Based on anything I have ever read if you cant do that your running your easy runs too hard.

There is very little benefit to doing this and it could tire you out and mean your not running as well as you should be on hard days.

nerraw1111

Really?

I feel if I can hold a conversation with ease while running, the pace is too slow. By ease, I mean, I'm slightly out of breath after a sentence or two.

Babybing wrote: »

Based on anything I have ever read if you cant do that your running your easy runs too hard.

There is very little benefit to doing this and it could tire you out and mean your not running as well as you should be on hard days.

Slight confusion here I think. I was referring to hard runs above. Therefore, i consider an easy run, a pace in which conversation is easy.

Appears to work for me so far.

thirtyfoot

Babybing wrote: »

I always feel they are a necessary evil.....you cant run hard every day if the week so you need something to do in between the hard sessions and thats were easy runs come in.

See what Martin Fagan has to say on the topic here, his easy runs are just easy runs and make up a lot of what he does now as opposed to when in college where he used to just be 'hammering' too much.

shels4ever

Yes i'd agree there, on my current plan I'm running 6 days with 2 - Session followed by 2 recovery days and the other 2 days are just easy runs . Faster then a recovery run but slower then a tempo . They was i judge the easy run pace is the I should finish and know that I could keep going for longer. Pace of these does change depending on the volume and quality of the weeks sessions.

Running Bing

Peckham wrote: »

Purpose is to get blood flowing to the muscles to assist recovery - nothing else.

QUOTE]


So do recovery paced runs have no other real benefits?

McMillan says I should be doing my recovery runs between 9:30-10:00. This is a very easy pace for me and my HR is usually around the 70% mark when I run at that pace.

The thing is I do two (sometimes three) quality sessions a week plus a long run so if you distinguish between easy runs and revovery runs I have very little space for easy runs.

Does running at recovery pace do nothing more than aid recovery? I always felt it had some aerobic benefits too?

cfitz

Babybing wrote: »

The thing is I do two (sometimes three) quality sessions a week plus a long run so if you distinguish between easy runs and revovery runs I have very little space for easy runs.

Does running at recovery pace do nothing more than aid recovery? I always felt it had some aerobic benefits too?

You could try just doing 'easy runs' and forgetting about 'recovery runs'.

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

You could try just doing 'easy runs' and forgetting about 'recovery runs'.

Thats really the way I do it now cfitz.

I basically just go by feel....if Im feeling good Ill go a bit faster or if Im tired Ill take it easy.

But is there really that much of a difference between easy and recovery runs? Does that small jump in pace really make a difference?

ss43

It depends a lot on how you define easy.

At one end of the scale, you could stumble into a run and run at a pace that anyone could manage with your heart rate around 60% of max. That's going to get the blood flowing and help recovery with minimal aerobic benefits.

At the other end, you could run and bring your heart rate up to about 80%. Here you'd get more aerobic benefit, it wouldn't do much for your recovery but you could still call it easy (you'd always be able to do it).

What pace you should run depends on what you want to achieve.

Seres

with all the recovery runs/long runs / sessions/tempo runs whats the best training format

Day 1 Hard speed session
Day 2 Recovery/easy run
Day 3 long run
Day 4 easy run
Day 5 speed session
Day 6 easy run ???

that look ok

One more question , can tempo runs or time trial be counted as a speed session ?

Stupid_Private

This used to get me as well. Now its all in what the name is, easy. I was out training a few times with a lad who ran a 2:19 marathon on some easy runs. They were EASY! Neither one of us broke a sweat, were out of breath, we just jogged along chatting. His workout days on the other hand would have run me into the ground, but his easy days are simple.

Seres

does the long run in a weekly routine double up as an easy run ?

shels4ever

Seres wrote: »

does the long run in a weekly routine double up as an easy run ?

Well its a session on its own, it should be at an easy pace but I dont regard it as easy mainly because its so long.. The day i call a 20 mile run easy is the day i'm locked up..

On your schedule above i'd prob move the long run back another day and maybe only have one speed session and one tempo ?

cfitz

Seres wrote: »

with all the recovery runs/long runs / sessions/tempo runs whats the best training format

Day 1 Hard speed session
Day 2 Recovery/easy run
Day 3 long run
Day 4 easy run
Day 5 speed session
Day 6 easy run ???

that look ok

One more question , can tempo runs or time trial be counted as a speed session ?

Looks good to me. Tempos and Time-Trials would probably work best as a replacement to the 2nd speed session. One way of doing it might be to do a weekly tempo for the first while and then switch in your 2nd speed session. Time-Trials and Races can be used every now and again to see where you're at.

ss43

Seres wrote: »

does the long run in a weekly routine double up as an easy run ?

Depends how fit you are, how far you run, how fast you run it and what your event is! A middle distance runner's long run would probably be one of his easier runs but for a marathon runner it's one of the key workouts. If it's done hard then it's clearly not an easy day.