looking to get my garden patio'd

stevoman

well lads.

my garden is an absolute mess at the moment. I have just moved in and the garden was very messy when we got there. its a brand new house. i have mowed the lawns etc, but the problom is we have a dog and she has the placed destroyed to muck. the drainage is also pathetic so it flooding in spots and all in all its just not worth having. its about 16 square metres. i havnt got around to making a dog run but i got thinking today how a nice pation styled garden with planted trees and a flower bed would look so much better and be better for my little daughter and the dog in the long run.

i will still build the dog a run, but at least we could let her out a lot more then to wander and play without having to worry about the grass and muck etc.

so would anyone know if a job this size would be expensive or would i be better off doing it myself.

i spent a few years on the sites so i wouldnt be shy of a bit of work but i wouldnt be too well learned on patio building.

opinions or rough quotes would really be appreciated.

Crazyivan 1979

Hi Steveo,
Just saw this thread. I had exactly the same problem: Big enough patio area 20 sq metres, then garden twice that size. Had alot of nice plants, got a dog and he ruined it, ripped all the plants, dug holes in the lawn, urine burned the grass. All in all the garden was a state and it stayed like that for a year.

We thought we wanted to get the whole thing paved (40 sq metres), got a guy round, he quoted 6000 Euro to pave it in indian sandstone (its not that fancy)!!

Not sure how easy it would be to DIY, you might have to level the earth with a "whacker".

What we did in the end was to install a railing with gate, banning the dog from the garden while we are not there, so he only has access under supervision. Even built him a little toilet so he wouldn't ruin the grass, he hasn't used it yet though!! it has only been a week though so we'll see.
It cost a grand to have the railing bought, installed and powder coated. if you want yer mans number pm me, he is in Clondalkin.

DamoKen

Hi Stevo, was in a similar position last year, more or less same sized area and decided to have a go at it myself. No previous experience of leveling, mixing mortar, laying slabs etc but was really really pleased with the end result. Granted took a lot of time and hard work, a lot of which was attributable to the awful weather last year though which restricted days I could work on it.

Load of helpful websites out there, also found the place I bought most of the materials from to be very helpful, gave me plenty of useful advice.

If you go for it yourself I'd suggest a lot of research before you start, and plan everything out as best you can in advance. Save yourself a lot of time and effort.

Think final costs for mine using Ravenna Indian sandstone and hardwood sleepers as a border came to about 1500 including hardcore, mortar, machinery hire and various other bits and pieces. I've seen friends patios that were "professionally" done and to be honest think mine is as good as if not better than a lot of them! Added satisfaction of doing it yourself of course .

Frank11

DamoKen: Can you PM the place where you bought your materials. I have about 45m/sq of indian sandstone and 85m/sq of gravel to buy plus some sleepers, lights, etc.

DamoKen

Hi Frank, I'll stick it up here in case anyone else is interested. Bought the sandstone, hardcore, mortar & sand in Balgriffin Patio Centre. Reasonable prices, nice guys and very helpful. If you get all your full amounts calculated at the start they might do you a deal, worth checking.

Bought the sleepers up in Balbriggan, can't remember the name of the place but it was just off the M1 at the Balbriggan exit. There's a retail estate with a few builder providers, as far as I remember it's the last store. Sorry I can't be more specific, had the details on a flyer through the post which is long gone. Really good sleepers, nicely weathered, extremely heavy and big. Got a great deal on them as the guy made a mistake in the original quote and quoted me on the cr*ppy newly cut ones. Only realised his mistake when I went to pick them up as did I so fair play to him he stuck with the quote!

bibibobo

DamoKen wrote: »

Hi Stevo, was in a similar position last year, more or less same sized area and decided to have a go at it myself. No previous experience of leveling, mixing mortar, laying slabs etc but was really really pleased with the end result. Granted took a lot of time and hard work, a lot of which was attributable to the awful weather last year though which restricted days I could work on it.

Load of helpful websites out there, also found the place I bought most of the materials from to be very helpful, gave me plenty of useful advice.

If you go for it yourself I'd suggest a lot of research before you start, and plan everything out as best you can in advance. Save yourself a lot of time and effort.

Think final costs for mine using Ravenna Indian sandstone and hardwood sleepers as a border came to about 1500 including hardcore, mortar, machinery hire and various other bits and pieces. I've seen friends patios that were "professionally" done and to be honest think mine is as good as if not better than a lot of them! Added satisfaction of doing it yourself of course .

Hi Damoken, sounds like you did a top job. What depth of hardcore did you lay and did you put a full bed of mortar under each slab or just a couple of fist sized lumps? Also, any chance of a photo of the job as I'm planning doing my backgarden also? Tried to pop into Balgriffin last Sunday but they don't open Sundays(!).
B

DamoKen

bibibobo wrote: »

Hi Damoken, sounds like you did a top job. What depth of hardcore did you lay and did you put a full bed of mortar under each slab or just a couple of fist sized lumps? Also, any chance of a photo of the job as I'm planning doing my backgarden also? Tried to pop into Balgriffin last Sunday but they don't open Sundays(!).
B

Hi Bibibobo, can't remember the exact depth, I was going on an area/weight ratio. If I remember it correctly I put down 3 metric tons of hardcore in a 15sq metre area, another half ton where I put down the path. Depth was fairly substantial anyway. Also did a full bed of mortar for each slab, read a lot of articles advising against spot mortaring due to subsidence, cracking etc. Think a full bed is just a lot more solid.

I'll try and stick a pic up on Saturday as won't be around much the next few days.
The guys out in Balgriffin anyway will be able to tell you more or less exact amounts you need if you know the area you want to cover.

racso1975

Hey just thought i'd post up as some of the prices quoted for getting work done are last years prices.

We have met with the landscaper now on 4 occasions and made a lot of changes to the original plan. the patio area he is doing is approx 52sq metres this includes a water feature nothing elaborate mind. The patio area will be surrounded by plants which we choose and will have lighting around it. He is also supplying a 10sq mt play area with them spongey tiles that absorb impacts should racso jr decided to fall off swing area etc. He will also lay the rest of the kerbing i cant finish at the drive way and do the surrounding flower beds. All in it's gonna cost us 5500 which i think is a very competitive price especially given the amount of consultations we have had with him.

Not sure where you are based but this is obviously not a Dublin price.

Just hoping we get the weather for it now!!!!

Sonnenblumen

Some info for posters planning on doing their own sandstone patio and pathways work.

Generally exacvate area to a depth of 6"-9" (150-225mm)and backfill the area with at least 4"-6" (100-150mm)hardcore which should be compacted with a plate compactor (Whacker) which can be hired for about €40 or less.

Mark the area using a string line and ensure you have an adequate fall for rain to run-off. This is very important given the wide variation in thickness of sandstone slabs 20mm-50mm). Good idea to peg the area using one peg at high end and fix the second peg at opposit end of fall , calculate the fall (1:100). Ideally the fall should be away from house, and horizontal across. In some sites the fall might only be towards the house, in which case Storm channels are required to take run-off.

Mix plastering sand with cement (5:1) , ensure it is not too wet, as slabs will simply sink and spread over a small area (1/2 sqm). If you do find the mix is too soft add extra cement and/or sand to obtain a more robust semi wet/dry consistency.

Sandstone is best laid on a complete bed, dabs are not really sutitable. Ideally cutting of sandstone is best done with a consaw but an angle disc cutter is a poor alternative. Us ea rubber mallet to tamp slab into final position leaving approx 20mm (1") for jointing (which can be completed in a number of ways). Check levels consistently and newly laid slabs take at leats 24 hours to set.

TIPS: Have a small handbrush and a bucket of water handy to wash off any excess mortar form the slabs as they are laid because mortar will stain the stone. Also wet underside of slab with handbrush this gives better adhesion between slab and mortar.

bibibobo

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Some info for posters planning on doing their own sandstone patio and pathways work.

Generally exacvate area to a depth of 6"-9" (150-225mm)and backfill the area with at least 4"-6" (100-150mm)hardcore which should be compacted with a plate compactor (Whacker) which can be hired for about €40 or less.
.....

Hi, just wondering does hardcore consist of stones of varying size or is it just the one size like the stones seen between trainline tracks? Also, when you lay the hardcore do you compact it in small layers or just compact the lot? Was thinking of laying flat paving slabs, nothing too fancy. The earth is pretty solid, given this could i get away with 6" or else hardcore? thanks. B

stevoman

thanks for the help folks.

Im going to do it myself with a friend who is very handy with this kind of thing. i hope to patio everything, have railways sleepers got and i will use these for flower beds. i am going to build a dog run for the dog. also we are going to plant some trees around the garden and build a brick typ bbq. also if there is any money left over im going to stick up some decking. as its all going to be done DIY i hope that the costs will be greatly reduced so i'l keep you updated. i'l try get pics of whats its currently like and also see if i can scan the plans we have drawn up.

Sonnenblumen

bibibobo wrote: »

Hi, just wondering does hardcore consist of stones of varying size or is it just the one size like the stones seen between trainline tracks? Also, when you lay the hardcore do you compact it in small layers or just compact the lot? Was thinking of laying flat paving slabs, nothing too fancy. The earth is pretty solid, given this could i get away with 6" or else hardcore? thanks. B

Sorry I missed oyur post earlier. Yes, Hardcore is sub-base material commonly referred to as 804 ie stones of varying sizes up to 50mm/2". Best if put the hardcore in position and then compact whole area. If ground is robust you could reduce the compacted base to 4"/100mm.

MrJoeSoap

Looking to do something quite similar over the next two months, how did this work out for you Stevoman?

looksee

I would be interested to hear how the people who put down sandstone have got on with it. It looks lovely but I have heard people say it is very hard to keep decent looking as it discolours and marks very easily. I would like some myself, but would like to know how it wears.

mike65

If you are going to murder your lawn and put down concrete/sandstone etc (esp the former) make darned sure you have your drainage sorted or you could find you have built a small lake outside your back door during a thunderous downpour.

Sonnenblumen

mike65 wrote: »

If you are going to murder your lawn and put down concrete/sandstone etc (esp the former) make darned sure you have your drainage sorted or you could find you have built a small lake outside your back door during a thunderous downpour.

You could have added, if you're planning on building a house, make sure there are no holes in the roof! Similarly with patio construction, if the falls are correctly calculated, there should be no risk of any 'lake' or ponding at your back door.

What happens is that people either do crappy DIY jobs or worse hire cowboys (because they come cheap and frequently work on cash basis etc) to do Mickey Mouse work and then everyone gets tarred with the same brush including the materials. Sandstone is not suitable for all situations, and knowing the difference is very important.

blueband

Sonnenblumen, could you please clarify what you mean by "Sandstone is not suitable for all situations, and knowing the difference is very important"

Which situations is it not suitable for?
I'm doing some work in the next few weeks using Sandstone and have done a lot of research on the various types and laying methods etc. Very curious as to what you meant with your comment in case there's something I've missed.

For anyone else interested in DIY'ing it like myself there is a very good website which is based in the UK but run by an Irish lad called www.pavingexpert.com

Chock full of detailed useful info.

Sonnenblumen

Sandstone should not be used in Driveways as it discolours quite rapdily and to a slightly lesser extent damp, shaded and gardens with lots of overhanging deciduous trees/shrubs areas should also be avoided.

The lighter tones are still most popular eg Mint, and all stone will require some annual maintenance. Problems arise from inadequate ground preparation, insufficient sub-base, poor jointing and of course poor levels. The list goes on, but findamentally sandstone is a very attractive stone and is ideal for sunny open sites. If in doubt consider the darker tones eg Ravena.
There's plenty of project photos/installation info on our website/blog!:)

fred funk }{

Sorry to hijack your thread but does anyone know anywhere that's selling slabs at a good price?

blueband

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

The list goes on, but findamentally sandstone is a very attractive stone and is ideal for sunny open sites. If in doubt consider the darker tones eg Ravena.
There's plenty of project photos/installation info on our website/blog!:)

Thanks Sonnenblumen. I've done plenty of research on subbase, laying methods, the various pros and cons of different pointing compounds and levels so hopefully I've covered all angles.

I'd be hugely interested in the link to your blog if you could post it, or PM if you don't want to post. Cheers

Sonnenblumen

Blueband

I'll be delighted to pm a link to our Blog.:)