Sports Rights: Review of Irish Listed Events by Govt.

DMC

With DSO on the horizon, this is a timely review.

I would like to see the 6 Nations on the list, the IRFU did kick up a fuss last time this occurred.

Government to review designated events list
Monday, 13 April 2009 19:07
http://www.rte.ie/sport/athletics/2009/0413/events_review.html

The Government is to review the list of sporting events that have to be covered free-to-air because they are of major importance to society.

Under the review, Communications Minister Eamon Ryan is inviting the public to make submissions on events that should be added to the list.

Currently, the list comprises:

- The Summer Olympics
- The All-Ireland Senior Football and Hurling finals
- Ireland's Quallifying games in the European Football Championship and World Cup
- The opening games, semi-finals and the final of the European Football Championship Finals and the FIFA World Cup Finals Tournament
- Ireland's games at the Rugby World Cup Finals Tournament
- The Irish Grand National and the Irish Derby
- The Nations Cup at the Dublin Horse Show

The 'deferred coverage' list currently contains just one event; Ireland's games in the Six Nations Rugby Championship.

Announcing the review, Minister Ryan said: 'There are certain events which should fall outside the solely commercial remit - these are events that are much more than matches or ceremonies. They are part of what we are as a nation and their enjoyment should be available to all.

'I would urge interested members of the public to submit their ideas, which I can promise will be noted with great care.'

The public have until 8 May 2009 to make submissions.

Elmo

Why do we have a Department of Sports? Surely this is a job for Cullen?

Sporting events that should be FTA due to importance: -

1. All GAA rights.
2. All Six Nations matches
3. All ROI/NI soccer matches
4. World Cup Soccer and Rugby
5. The Summer/Winter Olympics
6. Irish Golf Open

Mossy Monk

If soccer matches involving the national team should be FTA then surely this should apply to all sports involving a national team.

Elmo wrote: »

Sporting events that should be FTA due to importance: -

1. All GAA rights.
2. All Six Nations matches
3. All ROI/NI soccer matches
4. World Cup Soccer and Rugby
5. The Summer/Winter Olympics
6. Irish Golf Open

I have no idea why Northern Ireland soccer matches would be FTA in this country. The rest I agree with though.

mike65

Elmo wrote: »

3. All ROI/NI soccer matches

WTF?

5. The Summer/Winter Olympics

WTF? Well no reason why Ireland can't enter a Curling team I guess

Mossy Monk

mike65 wrote: »

WTF?
WTF? Well no reason why Ireland can't enter a Curling team I guess

I suppose if RTÉ, TV3 or TG4 wanted the Winter Olympics then they could get them handy enough. Who else would want them.

mike65

Indeed, the Champions League is far more important!

Elmo

mike65 wrote: »

Indeed, the Champions League is far more important!

Yeah the culture and tradition of Ireland is tied up in Champions League! :rolleyes:

NI match because I am inclusive of all tradition on the Island of Ireland

WTF? Well no reason why Ireland can't enter a Curling team I guess

No reason why we couldn't a skiing team or any other winter sport. I mean you would think we won more then 5 medals in the olympic games in any given year.

I would have suggested Eircome League but I am guessing that Setanta and Sky don't want it or The NI League.

DMC

Elmo wrote: »

Why do we have a Department of Sports? Surely this is a job for Cullen?

It should be cross-departmental. Broadcasting is of the Dept of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Elmo wrote: »

Sporting events that should be FTA due to importance: -

1. All GAA rights.
2. All Six Nations matches
3. All ROI/NI soccer matches
4. World Cup Soccer and Rugby
5. The Summer/Winter Olympics
6. Irish Golf Open

So thats almost everything. The GAA Championships should be, but the National Football League? I think no.

UEFA and FIFA are making serious noises in the UK regarding their listed events. They cannot see the merit of the whole World Cup or European Championships being the sole domain of FTA television. They would like it the way we have it here.

Elmo

DMC wrote: »

It should be cross-departmental. Broadcasting is of the Dept of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

So thats almost everything. The GAA Championships should be, but the National Football League? I think no.

There should be 3 ****ing departments messing around in the same areas.

We have a Dept. of Heritage, Dept of Sport and Dept of CommunityWHAT A WASTE OF TIME.

GAA should all be FTA due to the fact that it is a Community/Amature association, why they sell games to Setanta is beyond me.

Elmo

Designation of sporting events

Have the seen all of the application or are they still looking for applications?

DMC

Privilege Day in the Civil Service don't you know!

Elmo wrote: »

GAA should all be FTA due to the fact that it is a Community/Amature association, why they sell games to Setanta is beyond me.

That's a very Corinthian outlook. The GAA has got the taste of making money for its own ends. Just like any other.

Elmo

DMC wrote: »

That's a very Corinthian outlook. The GAA has got the taste of making money for its own ends. Just like any other.

And the amount of work that so many local community, parish, schools and various other organizations put into GAA means that the rights should only be provided to FTA broadcasters. If it wasn't for TG4 the GAA wouldn't have the league broadcast.

I don't think you could call it a Corinthian outlook.

DMC

What you spell out is the amateur Corinthian ideal to the core.

And the GAA proved it in the last rights deal that they are loyal to TG4, but also giving up any amateur pretence that they will strike deals with the highest bidders. It just so happens that they didn't risk uproar when they didn't carve up the Championship to Setanta. It was widely flagged that as the GAA had to use the EC recommendations that were introduced for the English Premier League, that there had to be another bidder besides RTÉ for the Championship and other rights. Setanta, at that stage were flush with money. Setanta have a very minuscule live deal with the GAA to a domestic audience as it stands. RTÉ paid top dollar.

Look at the way the GAA seek sponsorship now. For the Championship they have 6 sponsors, where before it was just one title sponsor per tournament. They are using some of the best tactics employed by professional sports organisation to maximise profit, and they are professional right at the top.

Elmo

DMC wrote: »

What you spell out is the amateur Corinthian ideal to the core.

And the GAA proved it in the last rights deal that they are loyal to TG4, but also giving up any amateur pretence that they will strike deals with the highest bidders. It just so happens that they didn't risk uproar when they didn't carve up the Championship to Setanta. It was widely flagged that as the GAA had to use the EC recommendations that were introduced for the English Premier League, that there had to be another bidder besides RTÉ for the Championship and other rights. Setanta, at that stage were flush with money. Setanta have a very minuscule live deal with the GAA to a domestic audience as it stands. RTÉ paid top dollar.

Look at the way the GAA seek sponsorship now. For the Championship they have 6 sponsors, where before it was just one title sponsor per tournament. They are using some of the best tactics employed by professional sports organisation to maximise profit, and they are professional right at the top.

According to google it means being rich and amateur, I suppose selling out to setanta makes the GAA rich and amateur:) GAA - Corinthian Ideal.

They can have all the sponsors they want but their matches should be available to all. Nothing to suggest that Setanta Ireland couldn't be a FTA channel on DTT, it would allow them access to GAA Championships.

TG4 and TV3 are both free to air, TG4 has take more than passing interest in Gaelic games.

The GAA is an amateur sports association has is built on that foundation.

DMC

Elmo wrote: »

According to google it means being rich and amateur, I suppose selling out to setanta makes the GAA rich and amateur:)

Thank you. QED. FTW, etc.

The Corinthian ideal is more that sport should be played for sports sake rather than for gain, personal or otherwise. But it used to get a bad rap for being elitist and the preserve of the upper classes in England. It's a worthy thought, though lost in today's sporting environment.

Elmo wrote: »

The GAA is an amateur sports association has is built on that foundation.

But they are involved in a changed environment, and the upper echelons of the organisation act in a professional manner.

It is up to the faithful, the ordinary members that make the GAA their strength, to make it known to those in Croke Park what you want from the GAA and their TV deals.

icdg

Hmm, hard to draw this up, for me it would be:

* All-Ireland Senior Football/Hurling Championships
* Six Nations Championship
* The FAI Cup Final
* Games involving Irish teams at the knockout stages of the ERC.
* Games involving the Republic of Ireland in the European Championship and World Cup and the finals of both.
* Games involving Ireland in the Rugby World Cup.
* The Irish Grand National

This would just be a selection of Irish national sporting events and doesn't really reflect my choice in sports...

Elmo

DMC wrote: »

Thank you. QED. FTW, etc.

The Corinthian ideal is more that sport should be played for sports sake rather than for gain, personal or otherwise. But it used to get a bad rap for being elitist and the preserve of the upper classes in England. It's a worthy thought, though lost in today's sporting environment.



But they are involved in a changed environment, and the upper echelons of the organisation act in a professional manner.

It is up to the faithful, the ordinary members that make the GAA their strength, to make it known to those in Croke Park what you want from the GAA and their TV deals.

Hence the name of the Rugby team Corinthians ??? I had to look it up :rolleyes: but it is a good word which I will be using constantly

I am sure the "upper echelons of the organization act in a professional manner" (did you get this from your rugby friends? )doesn't mean the organization that they represent are professional.

Bloody Corinthians, always playing about in their fancy clubs and what not! And look at the games they play Golf, Rugby and Cricket

DMC

Elmo wrote: »

I am sure the "upper echelons of the organization act in a professional manner" (did you get this from your rugby friends? )doesn't mean the organization that they represent are professional.

Cricket is my weakness, m'lud.

It's true, I think the GAA have caught up in terms of operating at the top table of the organisation, and dealing with media rights* is a priority for such a sport that is popular. But as often is the complaint in the GAA, there can be too much democracy. Look at all the sub-committees, councils etc, as well as the rigmarole for suspending a player.

But that's for another day when Paul Galvin gets a sent of again

Elmo wrote: »

Bloody Corinthians, always playing about in their fancy clubs and what not! And look at the games they play Golf, Rugby and Cricket

* see what I did there, back on track!

Elmo

DMC wrote: »

* see what I did there, back on track!

I was hoping you wouldn't take my last post too seriously.

But I still think that the GAA need to provide FTA rights to all matches.



Side Note: -

Again nothing to suggest that Setanta Ireland couldn't be FTA. They are currently racing up the ratings, due in part to GAA and Rugby and of course being available on UPC's basic package. But sure we will see what happens.

I am sure I have gone way of the topic now!

DMC

Elmo wrote: »

I was hoping you wouldn't take my last post too seriously.

I don't take any of your posts seriously! (joke, just in case! )

Elmo wrote: »

Again nothing to suggest that Setanta Ireland couldn't be FTA. They are currently racing up the ratings, due in part to GAA and Rugby and of course being available on UPC's basic package. But sure we will see what happens.

Very valid point. And not unheard of. When the NFL offered American Football to cable in the US for the first time in the 1980's, it was on the condition that it wasn't PPV, it was on basic cable and not encrypted.

And Setanta Ireland have had "freeview" programmes before, so the precedence in there.

keith99

Setanta Sports Ireland can only be fta on the hopefully launched Irish DTT very soon not fta on satellite

there appears to be no link for the public to make their views, lets hope the Heineken Cup knockout matches from the 1-4 finals onwards are fta live on irish tv

DMC wrote: »

I don't take any of your posts seriously! (joke, just in case! )



Very valid point. And not unheard of. When the NFL offered American Football to cable in the US for the first time in the 1980's, it was on the condition that it wasn't PPV, it was on basic cable and not encrypted.

And Setanta Ireland have had "freeview" programmes before, so the precedence in there.

keith99

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/TV+coverage+of+major+events.htm

DMC wrote: »

I don't take any of your posts seriously! (joke, just in case! )



Very valid point. And not unheard of. When the NFL offered American Football to cable in the US for the first time in the 1980's, it was on the condition that it wasn't PPV, it was on basic cable and not encrypted.

And Setanta Ireland have had "freeview" programmes before, so the precedence in there.

Elmo

DCERN FORUM

What's wrong with boards

DMC

They don't "control" the posts.

Elmo

DMC wrote: »

They don't "control" the posts.

Yeah, they should really read them before posts go up. Guess which one is mine

Mossy Monk

keith99 wrote: »

lets hope the Heineken Cup knockout matches from the 1-4 finals onwards are fta live on irish tv

Hardly an event of national importance.

themont85

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Hardly an event of national importance.

Tell that to the many 82,500 thousand on May 2nd, which could be filled up even more if possible. The HC is a competition which Ireland's teams have excelled at, one of the few we do in the world. The HC final should be on the list at a minimum imo, with maybe other parts of the knock out stage.

To the A list
-World Athletics Championship/European
-All Ireland GAA Club final games
-Ireland's six nations games
-HC final
-CL final
-Ryder Cup(at least 1 days play)

I would add a good few events to the B list(highlights)-
-British and Irish Lions test matches
-HC matches involving Irish sides
-Cricket WC matches involving Ireland
-National League GAA matches
-F1
-Irish domestic league soccer games

icdg

Don't know how F1 can be considered an event of national importance, seeing as it is one sport with practically zero Irish involvement. I say this as one of the thousands that tune into Formula 1 during the season, but I can't make any argument for it to be a protected event.

The sponsorship element will ensure that F1 remains on British FTA television anyway, which will give most Irish people access to it. I remember there was uproar a few years back (from Formula 1 Management as well as fans) when ITV showed a race on ITV2, a channel which at that time had a far lower viewership than it does now.

Koloman

themont85 wrote: »

Tell that to the many 82,500 thousand on May 2nd, which could be filled up even more if possible. The HC is a competition which Ireland's teams have excelled at, one of the few we do in the world. The HC final should be on the list at a minimum imo, with maybe other parts of the knock out stage.

If the HC is one of the events made free to air then I hope TV3 get the rights for this as they did such a good job covering the Rugby World Cup last time to many people's surprise I might add!

People can get tired of the same old faces like George Hook etc, so to a have a different viewpoint for these games would be good. Mix it up a little.

Mossy Monk

themont85 wrote: »

Tell that to the many 82,500 thousand on May 2nd, which could be filled up even more if possible.

I would agree if it was the same every year. I will guarantee that most people wouldn't give a damn if no Irish teams were in the semi finals.

themont85

Mossy Monk wrote: »

I would agree if it was the same every year. I will guarantee that most people wouldn't give a damn if no Irish teams were in the semi finals.

How is the FIFA WC and Euro Championships justified when Ireland have qualified for just 4 competitions in our history(okay thats in 21 years but its hardly guranteed and is a much bigger rareity than Irish teams in the HEC final),not an Irish team has been to the knock out stage every year since 99 at least and to five finals and this is the second time 2 provinces have met at this stage in the last 4 of years, with the competition only running for 14 years. In my eyes it is just as if not more justified than the summer football competitions(i agree they should be on the list but can't see how they are more deserving than at least the HEC final).

Mossy Monk

themont85 wrote: »

How is the FIFA WC and Euro Championships justified when Ireland have qualified for just 4 competitions in our history

I don't know. Why don't you ask whoever made up the list.

DMC

It's more down to that historically (more so in Britain) that the whole tournament was shown on both BBC and ITV, and that seemed to transfer to RTÉ in the 1980's.

People have come to expect that both tournaments would be on a free to air station, hence its inclusion on the lists.

themont85

Mossy Monk wrote: »

I don't know. Why don't you ask whoever made up the list.

Apologies if you didnt get what i meant. What i was asking you was, how come you can agree with World Cup football matches and the euros been FTA and not the H Cup final for instance? You did say in a previous post you agreed with it did you not?

Elmo

You know that DCERN have set up a site to discuss this, this isn't getting anyone anywhere. Just a point.

Mossy Monk

themont85 wrote: »

What i was asking you was, how come you can agree with World Cup football matches and the euros been FTA and not the H Cup final for instance? You did say in a previous post you agreed with it did you not?

Where did I say the Euros should be on the list? I said games involving the national team and I would say that for rugby also. Heineken Cup does not involve the national team so that is why it shouldn't be on the list. IMO of course

channelsurfer

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6736219.ece

good news for those without sky...provided you like rugby heineken cup final to be fta on rte or tv3.... coming from murdochs newspapers there has to be some truth to it

Mossy Monk

Good news.

Elmo

channelsurfer wrote: »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6736219.ece

good news for those without sky...provided you like rugby heineken cup final to be fta on rte or tv3.... coming from murdochs newspapers there has to be some truth to it

You know sky could always unencrypted the final for Irish viewers. :eek: It might be difficult but I wait for the tech guys to say it couldn't be done. They prob know more.

Digifriendly

Elmo wrote: »

You know sky could always unencrypted the final for Irish viewers. :eek: It might be difficult but I wait for the tech guys to say it couldn't be done. They prob know more.

What about those with Freesat in Ireland i.e. without any card? Surely they then would not be able to receive it. It needs to be totally FTA not FTV in my opinion.

icdg

channelsurfer wrote: »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6736219.ece

good news for those without sky...provided you like rugby heineken cup final to be fta on rte or tv3.... coming from murdochs newspapers there has to be some truth to it

ERC will oppose this to the hilt, it would strongly devalue their existing deal with BSkyB as far as ROI is concerned.

channelsurfer

icdg wrote: »

ERC will oppose this to the hilt, it would strongly devalue their existing deal with BSkyB as far as ROI is concerned.

Look where it got the FAI trying to oppose it.... they can oppose it all they like once it's signed into irish law they have no choice but to make it available.... roll on september if its true....

icdg

channelsurfer wrote: »

Look where it got the FAI trying to oppose it.... they can oppose it all they like once it's signed into irish law they have no choice but to make it available.... roll on september if its true....

That may be true, but ERC might have more clout than the FAI on that one, given the traditional demographic of those who play (and watch) rugby...

It might also be rather successfully argued that there are 24 teams in the Heinken Cup and only three of these are Irish (sorry Connacht) and only two of those have a real chance of making the final (sorry Ulster). While Munster or Leinster have been involved over the past two years, there have been many years where there have been no Irish involvement in the final. ERC might argue that there is no case for designating an event where an Irish team is not involved in every year as a "major national sporting event". At least the Republic of Ireland football team were involved in all the matches concerned in the FAI's case.

Elmo

icdg wrote: »

That may be true, but ERC might have more clout than the FAI on that one, given the traditional demographic of those who play (and watch) rugby...

It might also be rather successfully argued that there are 24 teams in the Heinken Cup and only three of these are Irish (sorry Connacht) and only two of those have a real chance of making the final (sorry Ulster). While Munster or Leinster have been involved over the past two years, there have been many years where there have been no Irish involvement in the final. ERC might argue that there is no case for designating an event where an Irish team is not involved in every year as a "major national sporting event". At least the Republic of Ireland football team were involved in all the matches concerned in the FAI's case.

They could change it to games only involving the 4 Irish provinces, which could end up cause problems when they are in the final.

We may not even get into the world cup, yet that is designated.

channelsurfer2

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/minister-to-put-heineken-cup-rugby-matches-on-free-tv-list-2158965.html
almost a year after the consultation period closed those nice efficent civil servants have made a decision....... to consult again...... anyway looks like live heineken cup is coming back to rte(or tv3 god forbid).....

carrolls

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/minister-to-put-heineken-cup-rugby-matches-on-free-tv-list-2158965.html
almost a year after the consultation period closed those nice efficent civil servants have made a decision....... to consult again...... anyway looks like live heineken cup is coming back to rte(or tv3 god forbid).....

I would check the statement again in a couple of days time to see has it been changed or tweaked. Eamonn Ryan has a tendency to sign documents, and then a couple of days later, make subtle changes to text, an example being the Memorandum Of Understanding he signed on Feb 1st, then changing one line of text a couple of days after signing, thus rendering the Memorandum Of Understanding useless to Southern TV viewers.

Elmo

You will note that this is still under consultation the list now goes to the public for further consultation and then to the EU which will make a ruling on weather or not the Heineken Cup is of "national" importance. By the time this gets though all of that Eamon Ryan will be lucky to get to sign the FTA order.

Not that an previous Minister for Communications did any U-turns, oh wait they would have actually had to do something to do a u-turn on Remember the reason this consultation is taking place is because Bertie Ahern said that this is no way that he could stop just certain matches from being PayTV, he was wrong as usual.

Koloman

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/minister-to-put-heineken-cup-rugby-matches-on-free-tv-list-2158965.html
(or tv3 god forbid).....

Well what would you prefer? Free with TV3 or subscription only Sky Sports?

Apogee

Elmo wrote: »

Not that an previous Minister for Communications did any U-turns, oh wait they would have actually had to do something to do a u-turn on

But they couldn't do u-turns with quite the same alacrity and panache as Eamon.

Elmo

Apogee wrote: »

But they couldn't do u-turns with quite the same alacrity and panache as Eamon.

Your right they could do it far better, so much better that people didn't even notice.

Minstrel27

Koloman wrote: »

Well what would you prefer? Free with TV3 or subscription only Sky Sports?

As TV3 is not available to many places in this country it wouldn't make a difference to some.