Going to GF's church

Phototoxin

I'm not posting in AH or Personal issues as I will be basically verbally sodomised for even concieving to worry about such issues.

Anyway for Easter I went to my GF's church with her. Its a 'low' Anglican setting. Quite bibley and less ritual-y. They do have communion but also lay people are quite involved and there's a band and lots of hymmns and et cetera.

Anyway everyone there is all happy and singing along but I'm not participating because (as you may have noticed) I'm what I think is agnostic at the moment. I am unable to believe basic Christian beliefs.
Anyway in my Easter card from my GF she hoped that I would find resolution and peace in my spiritual searching.

But its a struggle for me to go to her church. I didn't go last week when my parents were visiting, but they went with my GF and her mum. My dad then made it very obviously know that he was 'very disappointed' that I didn't go. I find it difficult to be there. The people / her friends there are nice so that's a plus but I don't like the music (music is emotionally manipulative, lyrics I dont agree with etc). Ironically I've found that, when going to her cell group once, my biblical knowledge was a bit more 'developed' than some people in her church. (meanings of things, crossovers in prophecies in OT, metaphors, details, et cetera) Ex-Catholic beign praised about bible study ideas is good I guess!!

Anyway I find it *hard* to be in her church. I know if/when we get married and have kids they will be going to church and I support that though I myself cannot believe despite liking the concept. I've also moved house recently and I'm near a catholic church but I don't know if I should go as I dont agree with even the most basic concepts so it seems futile. There is also a Relgious Society of Friend (Quakers FYI!) meeting whcih are within accessable distances so I'm wondering about them on Sunday.

Anyway thoughts, ideas, suggestions, prayers (I'm open minded =p) and advice would be appreciated guys & gals

Tim Robbins

Phototoxin wrote: »

Anyway thoughts, ideas, suggestions, prayers (I'm open minded =p) and advice would be appreciated guys & gals

I'm atheist. Wife is a Church goer. I just don't go. Full stop. In the sameway I don't go to hair dressers when she's getting her hair done.

As for Quakers, I know one and there was an interesting piece about them in the IT recently. Seem like intelligent people who just like their spirituality but don't seem to be very creedal.

MatthewVII

At the end of the day, you're not religious, she is. If she doesn't like that and feels the need to pressure you with Christian messages then she's the one who has the problem and not you. Likewise with your family. Being with someone doesn't mean you have to do everything they do and believe everything they believe. If she's not happy going out with a non-Christian then she needs to re-evaluate why she's going out with an atheist. If she really likes you then it won't make a blind bit of difference.

To be honest, the fact that you've gone to her church shows that you've already compromised a bit on your side to make her happy. That doesn't mean she can then take you to the cleaners by twisting the knife further. Perhaps you should just stop going to church and affirm the idea that you're not interested (at the moment anyhow).

Bottom line - She needs to learn to respect your boundaries and accept you for who you are. if she likes you, she will. If religion is more important to her than you, then it was doomed from the start.

Zillah

It really sounds like you need to stop pretending. It sounds like you're deceiving them to be honest. It comes across as though they think this is just a phase you're going through and that everything will be fine and dandy when you come around. Tell them you don't believe what they do and that you won't be going to church any more. If you plan on making a life together with this girlfriend then eventually one of two things will happen: One day in the future you'll announce that you're sick of it and won't be going any more, in which case she'll feel betrayed that you led her along for so long, or you'll keep enduring a sham and become more and more bitter and resentful, which could have all sorts of negative consequences.

Also, do you really think you'll be ok with your children going to a church you don't believe in? Being exposed to emotionally manipulative music and lyrics you don't agree with?

Be true to thine own self and all that. You can't keep walking the line. You have three choices: Accept the church and become a real member (not likely by the sounds of it), keep up the sham and be open to a world of hurt later down the line, or just accept that it's not for you and stop lying to your family. If that's a deal-breaker for your girlfriend then better you deal with it now rather than after you're married and have children.

Phototoxin

If she doesn't like that and feels the need to pressure you with Christian messages then she's the one who has the problem and not you. Likewise with your family. Being with someone doesn't mean you have to do everything they do and believe everything they believe. If she's not happy going out with a non-Christian then she needs to re-evaluate why she's going out with an atheist. If she really likes you then it won't make a blind bit of difference.

This is quite negative...

I've never said she pressured me and I don't feel pressured. My dad is a bit ignorant when it comes to understanding these sorts of things. I'm not vehemently opposed to Christianity although I would like my children to be able to think critically.

MatthewVII

Phototoxin wrote: »

This is quite negative...

I've never said she pressured me and I don't feel pressured. My dad is a bit ignorant when it comes to understanding these sorts of things. I'm not vehemently opposed to Christianity although I would like my children to be able to think critically.

Oh okay, my bad, you just seemed a bit peeved by the whole thing.

If it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. much like anything in a relationship

prinz

Phototoxin wrote: »

Anyway in my Easter card from my GF she hoped that I would find resolution and peace in my spiritual searching.

MatthewVII wrote: »

At the end of the day, you're not religious, she is. If she doesn't like that and feels the need to pressure you with Christian messages then she's the one who has the problem and not you.

What the hell? She hopes he finds resolution and peace by following his own spiritual journey and now she's pressuring the OP with Christian messages??

Tim Robbins wrote: »

As for Quakers, I know one and there was an interesting piece about them in the IT recently. Seem like intelligent people who just like their spirituality but don't seem to be very creedal.

+1

Don't know as much as I'd like to about the Quakers, but from what I do know everything tells me to learn more. Especially the role they have played in this country's history.Remarkable as a group.

Advice to the OP is do what feels comfortable.You seem to have an interest in some sort of religious experience, particularly with a Christian emphasis, so just investigate and learn and explore, until you find some outlet in which you can express yourself in comfort.

Húrin

I think that open, honest, unhurried discussion will solve your problems. There is no need as far as I can see, to come to a decision soon. Keep talking to your girlfriend and family. She clearly loves you a lot because if she is quite religious it is possible that your different beliefs are a difficulty for her.

Checking out the Quakers can't do any harm, so go for it!

Tim Robbins' advice sounds nice and practical.

Tim Robbins

The other thing I'd say is that it's not as hard to find compromises as you might think. We decided to get married and went through the various options for ceremony. With such different views this could have been very problematic. We tried a few different Protestant Churches, some of whom were crazy, others decent but impractical as it would have meant me lieing about what I believe in to all my friends and family.

In the end, we went with the Unitarian Church, who were nothing short of excellent in all facets and if you are one of those sort of agnostic - theist -spiritual - christian background types, I would strongly recommend checking out their service.

kelly1

Phototoxin wrote: »

....I'm what I think is agnostic at the moment. I am unable to believe basic Christian beliefs.

May I ask what you do believe PT? Do you believe in any kind of supreme being? Do you believe death is the end etc?

MatthewVII

prinz wrote: »

What the hell? She hopes he finds resolution and peace by following his own spiritual journey and now she's pressuring the OP with Christian messages??

To be honest, if I got a card like that my reaction would be "right, my other half thinks I'm helplessly adrift and lost on my path to God". I'm not sure how you feel OP, but if you do feel lost and adrift, then I apologise. However, if you are comfortable with what you believe then this message is very subversive, suggesting that you are at some sort of psychic disturbance because of your lack of faith.

I reckon that she should just drop it and let you get on with it. No hinting at your sorrow and no offers of going to church. Just let you sort out whatever you believe yourself and be happy about it.

prinz

MatthewVII wrote: »

To be honest, if I got a card like that my reaction would be "right, my other half thinks I'm helplessly adrift and lost on my path to God". I'm not sure how you feel OP, but if you do feel lost and adrift, then I apologise. However, if you are comfortable with what you believe then this message is very subversive, suggesting that you are at some sort of psychic disturbance because of your lack of faith.

How about she respects his own path and journey and has merely wished him well?

Phototoxin

How about she respects his own path and journey and has merely wished him well?

I think that was the intention and the message I got from it. We spent a lot of time together at easter and it was brilliant.

Also kelly1 I would like to think that something created/first caused us all but I cannot believe that in addition I don't find the abrahamic deity a nice one to worship. I'm basically totally unsure.

philologos

Phototoxin, you have to realise though that the Abrahamic deity isn't inherently horrible, vindictive etc as so many people like to portray. Sure, nobody likes the idea of divine punishment, we have been given grace, and a chance to live a new life. God wants us all to be saved, God is working in the interests of mankind, and God ultimately has what is best in mind.

Also, is believing that we were caused by something any less rational than believing that the universe created itself, that we became as we are through nothing more than a natural process, and that there is no rhyme or reason to why we exist? I'd say it's more rational infact.

Rev Hellfire

Phototoxin wrote: »

Also kelly1 I would like to think that something created/first caused us all but I cannot believe that in addition I don't find the abrahamic deity a nice one to worship. I'm basically totally unsure.

Personally I think you're worrying to much about the whole god thing, in the end of the day if you lead a good life and do right by yourself and others, no deity worth considering will judge you harshly. (yes yes, we've see the multiple passages of scripture on the topics so spare us)

As for the going to the service, well unless you've strong objections to the particular service I would offer to accompany (and I use that word on purpose) your GF the occasional time, but perhaps not frequently. You can simply mediate on things while there and soak up the atmosphere. Think of it as small gift to her.

Because lets face it everyone here ends up going to a mass/service for the benefit of others occasionally, be it for marriages, deaths or births.
Its an occasional hour out of your life, not exactly a huge sacrifice in the grand scheme of thing. imho etc etc.

5673

You sound like a sincere and honest person to me ... I am a Christian, but i think there is nothing wrong with you exploring what you believe ...I agree that some of the comments seemed a bit negative ...personally I think you are trying to weigh up a number of things ie relationship / Belief in God / types of church etc ... I have been a committed Christian for just a quater of a century and I have had many sincere questions but the more I have sought God [with trust also] the more I have seen many of my questions answered ... and although at times it has been hard ... I definitly do not regret following Christ and have found Chrisanity to hold a profoundly powerful phiosolphy ...alll the best

Húrin

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Personally I think you're worrying to much about the whole god thing, in the end of the day if you lead a good life and do right by yourself and others, no deity worth considering will judge you harshly.

Such a fluffy belief might do well if he's seeking cheerfulness but not if he's seeking either truth or contentment.

Rev Hellfire

Húrin wrote: »

Such a fluffy belief might do well if he's seeking cheerfulness but not if he's seeking either truth or contentment.

It works spectacularly well for both truth and contentment.

But in the end of the day these are just our opinion, since none of this can be proven.

philologos

Bear in mind that the OP hasn't ruled out faith, and is considering to join the Society of Friends. I think that it is positive that he is at least thinking about his options. Phototoxin, look around a couple of churches until you find one that is suitable for you.

wolfsbane

Phototoxin said:

Anyway for Easter I went to my GF's church with her. Its a 'low' Anglican setting. Quite bibley and less ritual-y. They do have communion but also lay people are quite involved and there's a band and lots of hymmns and et cetera.

Anyway everyone there is all happy and singing along but I'm not participating because (as you may have noticed) I'm what I think is agnostic at the moment.

Good to see an honest approach.

I am unable to believe basic Christian beliefs.
Anyway in my Easter card from my GF she hoped that I would find resolution and peace in my spiritual searching.

But its a struggle for me to go to her church. I didn't go last week when my parents were visiting, but they went with my GF and her mum. My dad then made it very obviously know that he was 'very disappointed' that I didn't go. I find it difficult to be there.

Maybe your Dad doesn't take religion seriously, so he can go without it affecting him.

The people / her friends there are nice so that's a plus but I don't like the music (music is emotionally manipulative, lyrics I dont agree with etc).

You are right to beware of manipulative music. Your decisions about spiritual things must be free from man-made pressure. The music may not be manipulative for the worshippers, but can be so to outsiders.

Ironically I've found that, when going to her cell group once, my biblical knowledge was a bit more 'developed' than some people in her church. (meanings of things, crossovers in prophecies in OT, metaphors, details, et cetera) Ex-Catholic beign praised about bible study ideas is good I guess!!

Yes, you will find many believers who are not well grounded in the Bible. Depends on the local church, on how well they teach the word.

Anyway I find it *hard* to be in her church. I know if/when we get married and have kids they will be going to church and I support that though I myself cannot believe despite liking the concept. I've also moved house recently and I'm near a catholic church but I don't know if I should go as I dont agree with even the most basic concepts so it seems futile. There is also a Relgious Society of Friend (Quakers FYI!) meeting whcih are within accessable distances so I'm wondering about them on Sunday.

Anyway thoughts, ideas, suggestions, prayers (I'm open minded =p) and advice would be appreciated guys & gals

The essential thing is for you to find the Truth. Do not get side-tracked into finding a minimalist position that you and the GF can agree on. If the spiritual world exists, then it likely cannot be given a subsiduary role in our lives. It deals with eternal issues.

Pursue after God, seek Him out, if He is there. Once that is sorted, all else will follow.

In your circumstances, a place to start might be in her church. Find out exactly what her church believes - not just what you have picked up about their beliefs.

Pray to the unknown God, asking Him to reveal Himself to you. It will mean you reading the Bible to see if God speaks there. When you find Him, it may mean you going to a different church.

You and the GF need to find somewhere you can agree on as a starting point - or you need to be able to live with her worshipping there and you not. Going with her and getting upset is not a long-term solution.

I will be praying for you both.

Phototoxin

Thank you people. Including the athiests/agnostics I have attended the local quaker group and find the silence and non-judgmentalism to be tranquil. I am going to be back this sunday. :-)