Still getting shocked by over priced property

Kipperhell

I think everybody would agree that selling in the current market should be avoided where possible. I can see property that in hindsight was a bad idea but there were some that to me seemed terrible ideas at the time. I watched this house get built and could see rather expensive materials were going in. Not my personal taste I must say but if it was where you were going to live your choice. The main issue seemed to be building something very expensive among cheaper houses.

Anyway it is now on the market and seems way over priced.

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/search/brochure/97a-all-saints-road-raheny-dublin-5-raheny-dublin-co&-city/GFJWC358327

I think the max they will get is closer to €500,000 but I think the personal taste issue is a real draw back on this property

bobbbb

If you dont like the price then dont buy it. Thats how the market works.
If nobody else likes it at that price either, then it wont sell.

Freddie59

Kipperhell wrote: »

I think everybody would agree that selling in the current market should be avoided where possible. I can see property that in hindsight was a bad idea but there were some that to me seemed terrible ideas at the time. I watched this house get built and could see rather expensive materials were going in. Not my personal taste I must say but if it was where you were going to live your choice. The main issue seemed to be building something very expensive among cheaper houses.

Anyway it is now on the market and seems way over priced.

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/search/brochure/97a-all-saints-road-raheny-dublin-5-raheny-dublin-co&-city/GFJWC358327

I think the max they will get is closer to €500,000 but I think the personal taste issue is a real draw back on this property

It's even overpriced at that. For God's sake this is Ireland.

Look what in, or about, the same price gets you in France.

http://www.francepropertyshop.com/PropertyDetails/34380

gurramok

But Ireland is different!

One area i know well is Ringsend, Dublin. They are asking 350k+ for 2bed cottages down there.

Near bottom yet? Have a laugh!

http://www.daft.ie/1426853 425k
http://www.daft.ie/1417159 365k
http://www.daft.ie/1401807 350k

Freddie59

gurramok wrote: »

But Ireland is different!

One area i know well is Ringsend, Dublin. They are asking 350k+ for 2bed cottages down there.

Near bottom yet? Have a laugh!

http://www.daft.ie/1426853 425k
http://www.daft.ie/1417159 365k
http://www.daft.ie/1401807 350k

Ah that's bloody ridiculous. One of those (needing work of around €50k to €100k) is on sale for €80k in central Waterford at the minute. http://www.daft.ie/1439242

And the French property is in the Cote D'Azur!!!:eek:

SkepticOne

Kipperhell wrote: »

I think everybody would agree that selling in the current market should be avoided where possible.

Don't you mean bad time to buy?

bangersandmash

Kipperhell wrote: »

I think everybody would agree that selling in the current market should be avoided where possible.

The problem is that the market may continue in its current state for several years to come. It's inevitable that many people will need to sell during that time whether due to financial pressures or more conventional reasons.

That said I think it's bad form to pick on one particular property. There is no shortage of examples of misjudged asking prices out there especially in rural areas.

sneakyST

Freddie59 wrote: »

It's even overpriced at that. For God's sake this is Ireland.

Look what in, or about, the same price gets you in France.

http://www.francepropertyshop.com/PropertyDetails/34380

I think its not a fair comparison regardless if its over priced. You need to look at property closer to major or capital cities.....

dudara

Freddie59 wrote: »

Look what in, or about, the same price gets you in France.

http://www.francepropertyshop.com/PropertyDetails/34380

We're just back from a week in the Cote d'Azure and in the best Irish fashion, we had to look at the windows of property agents.

You could spend a little or you could spend a lot, but you are always going to get a property in France near the beach. The same can't be said of Ireland.

Our market still has a lot of readjusting to do. People selling don't want to admit how much their houses are truly worth.

jetski

If freddie was hoenstly delivering a fair point he would be giving a link to a similar property 2 bed property in central paris. but hes not, hes taking crap as per usual, which im sick to the teeth of.

Here is a property in central paris as is the house in ringsend, both are within 1sq meter of each other.

€586,00.00 is a lot more than €425,000.00

http://www.paris-property.com/product_min_490000_index_3.htm

Freddie59

jetski wrote: »

hes taking crap as per usual

Of course I am....and you're not? Comparing DUBLIN to PARIS??????:D:D:D:D

Different day, same ole BS then Jetski?

mikemac

jetski wrote: »

http://www.paris-property.com/product_min_490000_index_3.htm

4th floor without an elevator.
Wouldn't appeal to lazy people like me

jdivision

TBH jetski you can't compare the Marais to Ringsend!

jetski

Freddie59 wrote: »

Of course I am....and you're not? Comparing DUBLIN to PARIS??????:D:D:D:D

Different day, same ole BS then Jetski?

Listen mate, your coming out with rubbish mate, post after post including this one. i make an effort to backup what i say you just blab.... paris is a capital european city and so is dublin.... why cant you compare the two?

Freddie59

jetski wrote: »

Listen mate, your coming out with rubbish mate, post after post including this one. i make an effort to backup what i say you just blab.... paris is a capital european city and so is dublin.... why cant you compare the two?

I don't know what your problem is.........mate.;)

There is a collapsing property market. Some people (myself included) are being realistic about what's happening around them. They want minimum debt for maximum value. As any consumer does.

Then there are others in denial about what's happening , and who try to compare one of the world's most beautiful capitals with Ringsend, Dublin. Not saying there's anything wrong with Ringsend, but it ain't no Paris.:)

Kipperhell originally posted a link to a house with an asking price of €725k in a Dublin suburb. In order to highlight the (ongoing) lunacy of the Irish 'property' market I published a link to one of the most beautiful places on the Continent (Cote d'Azure). There are no comparisons between the Dublin property and the one in France. None.

And still you try to compare Dublin to PARIS.:rolleyes:

And you accuse ME of posting rubbish my friend? Don't forget to shake that sand out of your hair.:)

Kipperhell

bangersandmash wrote: »

The problem is that the market may continue in its current state for several years to come. It's inevitable that many people will need to sell during that time whether due to financial pressures or more conventional reasons.

That said I think it's bad form to pick on one particular property. There is no shortage of examples of misjudged asking prices out there especially in rural areas.

It think you completely missed the point, firstly I stated it should be avoided where possible and I understand some people don't have a choice.

It isn't purely the house is over priced it is the fact it was a bad idea in the first place as it would probably never be worth so much higher than the surrounding neighbours. This isn't so much a misjudged asking price as a misjudged concept to start with. A very personalised house, built to a much higher spec ignoring the surrounding property. There was content as well as the heading

EKRIUQ

I don't know Jetski or Freddie, but I have to side with Jetski on the last couple of posts, they make more sense

Freddie59

EKRIUQ wrote: »

I don't know Jetski or Freddie, but I have to side with Jetski on the last couple of posts, they make more sense

Of course they do. From your;) perspective.:)

Yes, let's continue to pay over the odds for property which is grossly overpriced and which is tumbling in price by the day. What a wonderful plan.:D

Firetrap

We're all vested interests in one way or another. As a renter, I want house prices to fall more so that I can buy something nice without having to exist on bread and water for the next 40 years.

Jetski has admitted on other threads in here that he/she bought a house about 2 years ago. So they are a vested interest as well.

Freddie59

Firetrap wrote: »

Jetski has admitted on other threads in here that he/she bought a house about 2 years ago.

Oooooooooops! That explains it then.

AARRRGH

It's ridiculous to compare Paris' property prices with Dublin's property prices. Forgetting the fact that Paris' economy is more than 10 times bigger than Dublin's economy (750 billion vs 60 billion), comparing the extremely wealthy Le Marais with Ringsend is absurd.

Anyone who still thinks Dublin's property is not amazingly overpriced and set for years of decline is living in denial land.

Merch

Past performance doesn't garauntee future returns and all that but
property always seems to creep back no matter the decline 1987 although from an article I read, over the average it doesn't outperform stocks.

I think all would like to believe no matter what decline comes that eventually it will probably come back eventually, for some of us that just means hanging on in there in the bad times, for others it's living on bread and water as the boom was so mismanaged.

Merch

Kipperhell wrote: »

I think the max they will get is closer to €500,000 but I think the personal taste issue is a real draw back on this property

What is it about the personal taste you dont like about it? I dont find it that unappealing? other than the price.
The wood floor looks a bit dated style-wise
am i that out of touch that I'd like this? It looks a hell of a lot better than my place I just got the best cost curtains and threw them up (neatly) havent been reading house and home lately myself.

AARRRGH

Yes, but we are talking about Ireland, the terribly poor country until the early 90's, which then had a booming economy based on people taking out huge loans to buy property from each other.

Our economy has been totally destroyed, and is only going to get worse. The new "asset" management company is going to add another 90+ billion of debt to Ireland's balance sheet.

Correcting our current problems is going to take an entire generation. We won't have any sort of property 'recovery' for decades.

And if you throw in the inevitable mass exodus of the multi-nationals - it's only a matter of time - we will be left with nothing.

Really, Ireland Inc. is screwed. It's better to accept this now instead of waiting a few more years.

Greaney

Okay, I had a good gawk at all the properties and here's my tuppence worth..

1) The first property in an uninspireing suburb has naff taste all over it... the windows on the french doors!!! Come on!! It's bland and will date in less than 3 years.

2) Ringsend has had some very serious flooding the past few years, I'd think long and hard about there. Insurance companies won't touch certian streets in , for example, Clonmel anymore due to constant flooding.

3) The salaries and opportunities in Paris are a lot more varied than Dublin, (unless you're a politician or a Fás exec). We've got a more open economy so when we're down... we can be down and out!!

4) I was under the impression that a correct house price for a house is about three times the Annual salary of the buyer. That means €250 for an average, and I mean average house, not a first time one, is more realistic.

Finally, regarding economic downturns, this is one of the most serious in world economics for nigh on 90 years!! As economic patterns go we ought to be careful, it might take more than three years to come out of it, if history teaches us anything it'll be seven or more.

Merch

To be honest I have already accepted the negativity of the whole situation, now its a matter of getting on with it and still live a reasonably happy existence.
What year do you think we have to roll back to for realistic prices or is that even a vaible proposition, maybe its what decade do we have to roll back to, then see how long it might take us to recover.
Its shameful how some people have behaved, now they have some nice cash funds in fixed rate account somewhere and a lot of people worse off than me are screwed.

Oh yeh french doors, bit naff and the parquet floor? overall its not much worse then other legoland housing.

I cant say Im happy about absorbing that debt, perhaps I dont know enough to get it fully as some of the learned few on TV programmes seem to be saying this is the best way to go.
I just dont see how we cannot recover money from the fat ctas that made this mess, too simplistic approach I guess.

AARRRGH

Greaney wrote: »

As economic patterns go we ought to be careful, it might take more than three years to come out of it, if history teaches us anything it'll be seven or more.

However... the countries who have survived recessions have had mature, well developed economies.

Absolute best case scenario we will have some sort of recovery in 7 years, but I think that's being overly optimistic.

Kipperhell

Merch wrote: »

What is it about the personal taste you dont like about it? .

It it has some very grand replica styles mixed together and generally a bit crass IMHO. Nouveau riche would be generally how I would describe it.

As for the general comparisons between properties in Paris and Dublin it is a fair comparison. To claim Paris wealth means it isn't fair ignores the point Paris has a greater number of expensive property. The ratio of expensive properties is the key. The top earners in any country tend to be in the capital and as such makes property there more expensive.

gurramok

I'm glad some posters think Ringsend is posh, my relatives who live not far from the gaffs i posted will be delighted on reading it compares favourably to that Paris suburb

Another seriously overpriced place is Lusk. A commuter town with nothing in it, its a poster boy of the boom yet a 2bed terraced house is asking about 250k for the cheapest
to 300k on the other extreme.
http://www.daft.ie/1405064
http://www.daft.ie/1373537

A 3bed is asking 300k to 380k depending on specs.
http://www.daft.ie/1426730
http://www.daft.ie/1439583


Can a bull explain Lusk please?

Duckjob

gurramok wrote: »

Another seriously overpriced place is Lusk. A commuter town with nothing in it, its a poster boy of the boom yet a 2bed terraced house is asking about 250k for the cheapest
to 300k on the other extreme.
http://www.daft.ie/1405064
http://www.daft.ie/1373537

A 3bed is asking 300k to 380k depending on specs.
http://www.daft.ie/1426730
http://www.daft.ie/1439583


Can a bull explain Lusk please?

+1

Like everywhere else, prices shot up in Lusk around 2005, 2006, but whereas other areas have since readjusted to some degree, in Lusk they've barely budged downwards since they peaked.

They're still in serious denial out there methinks.

Ponster

For info : A 64sq meter 1-bedroomed flat in Paris will cost from €220k upwards depending on where exactly you plan to buy.

I bought a 38sq meter flat in 2002 for €80K which is no valued at about €120k.

blast05

As economic patterns go we ought to be careful, it might take more than three years to come out of it, if history teaches us anything it'll be seven or more.

Then again it might not. Certainly unexpected events in the US with Goldman Sachs having much bigger profits in the first quarter than expected and Wells Fargo providing early guidance of expected record profits for Q1.
Overall first signs of easing in the States:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7997940.stm
And while the cliche holds that if the US gets a cold that we get a flu .... well the opposite also holds so to speak cos of among many other things how open our economy is and how dramatically our cost base is reducing


All in all, no one can predict with any degree of certainty or authority what will happen over the next few years.
In my view, anyone proposing extreme scenarios shouldn't really be considered on this thread.

gurramok

blast05 wrote: »

Then again it might not. Certainly unexpected events in the US with Goldman Sachs having much bigger profits in the first quarter than expected and Wells Fargo providing early guidance of expected record profits for Q1.
Overall first signs of easing in the States:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7997940.stm
And while the cliche holds that if the US gets a cold that we get a flu .... well the opposite also holds so to speak cos of among many other things how open our economy is and how dramatically our cost base is reducing

All in all, no one can predict with any degree of certainty or authority what will happen over the next few years.
In my view, anyone proposing extreme scenarios shouldn't really be considered on this thread.

Oh my oh my.

Have you read up that we have a €16bn structural deficit from the Irish domestic bubble? The rest of the deficit(€5bn) is global orientated and this is from the horse's mouth(FF)
I noticed the bit about the cost base, now there might be fruits if they tackle the deficit of SW and public sector but don't hold your breadth.

We in Ireland are in for a long haul recession and it will take a massive reinvention aka Finland style 90's to get us out of it.

Regarding house prices, there is nothing to support a bottom out nor a expected rise, just look at the interest rates at near zero, no affect. We are screwed on the house price front(good news) and i do not apologise if this comes across as an extremist view as it is the truth imho.

Freddie59

gurramok wrote: »

Regarding house prices, there is nothing to support a bottom out nor a expected rise, just look at the interest rates at near zero, no affect. We are screwed on the house price front(good news) and i do not apologise if this comes across as an extremist view as it is the truth imho.

Great post. Spot-on analysis.

Mugatu

Freddie59 wrote: »

Great post. Spot-on analysis.

I think Peter Sutherland might disagree.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0414/1224244628334.html

PullOutMethod

blast05, your post is counter-intuitive:
Ironically an international recovery is probably the worst thing that could happen - interest rates would go up crushing already overstretched mortgage payers.
Indeed Lenihan has used it as an excuse to decrease subsidies and increase taxes.
Pray it does not happen.

Mugatu, normally one cannot predict the future.
However there is no prediction required:
Assuming no further deterioration in public finances the government requires ANOTHER 1.75Bn in the next budget on top of the Mini budget.

The minister had been frank: there will be tax increases and subsidy decreases for the next 3 years.

Property prices are a function of availability of credit therefore -
IRISH PROPERTY PRICES WILL DROP FOR THE NEXT 3 YEARS

Even still our property will be overvalued vis-a-vis the rest of Europe.
I bought in 2000 and my house is overvalued vis a vis similar European cities.

Don't get me started on creche fees either - they are 150euro a month per child in Sweden / Norway etc (and you get reductions for further children !!!)

That article has nothing to do with house prices - indeed Sutherland admits the housing problems and then compares our current economic condition to where it was in the 80s !

Mugatu

PullOutMethod wrote: »

Mugatu, normally one cannot predict the future.
However there is no prediction required:

Property prices are a function of availability of credit therefore -
IRISH PROPERTY PRICES WILL DROP FOR THE NEXT 3 YEARS

Ok, so your ARE predicting the future even if you reckon that it is not required. I'm not saying saying what way the market will go but I would like you to back up your comments.

I took a quick look at the average price of a 2 bed 120sq foot apartment in Brussels with 1 million population and 13.79% unemployment in the city:

http://www.vlan.be/vlan-immo/CatalogGenerate.do?intDesc_nombreDeChambres=2&pushCriteria=intDesc_nombreDeChambres&affinageStatType=RO
http://www.eupedia.com/belgium/population_statistics_brussels.shtml

The average price for that 2 bed is quite similar to ours. So where are you seeing the massive difference?

PullOutMethod

Mugatu, The governments deficit is not a prediction it is real.

How curious that you would use Brussels the EU capital and probably the city with the highest rate of living in the EU ?
EU politicians and staff do not pay taxes.
Are you seriously comparing Dublin to Brussels ???

I compared Stockholm 2 weeks ago.
500K in the Stockholm ( a capital city with 1 m inhabitants) will get you a villa beside a lake with half a hectare and a granny flat in the grounds thrown in.
I checked several cities in Germany in the 800K price range - my search thew up hotels !

blast05, these are not "extreme scenarios", Ireland's property market is not a magical place where the laws of economics do not apply.
What is extreme about comparing to similar cities in Europe ?
I'm afraid it was the Irish property market that was an extreme scenario.
It was a giant pyramid scheme.

gurramok

Mugatu wrote: »

I think Peter Sutherland might disagree.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0414/1224244628334.html

Peter Sutherland, a sacked director of the wrecked RBS bank, so yes he has had a reputation.
See past the spin, funny how he did not mention NAMA.

bobbiw

Kipperhell wrote: »

I think everybody would agree that selling in the current market should be avoided where possible. I can see property that in hindsight was a bad idea but there were some that to me seemed terrible ideas at the time. I watched this house get built and could see rather expensive materials were going in. Not my personal taste I must say but if it was where you were going to live your choice. The main issue seemed to be building something very expensive among cheaper houses.

Anyway it is now on the market and seems way over priced.

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/search/brochure/97a-all-saints-road-raheny-dublin-5-raheny-dublin-co&-city/GFJWC358327

I think the max they will get is closer to €500,000 but I think the personal taste issue is a real draw back on this property

I think the max they will get will be 350, its way overpriced