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The Mess - Military Forum Off Topic Thread!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,240 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Not related to the above but this gave me a laugh. There have be easier ways to get a new tie.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/man-accidentally-ejects-himself-from-fighter-jet-during-surprise-flight

    h (320mph), an investigation into the debacle in France has found. The 64-year-old civilian got the most unwelcome ride of his life after the force of the take-off made him “float” off his seat, causing him to stand up and involuntarily grab the ejection handle to steady himself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,858 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Former Chief of Staff Lt. General James Parker (rtd) has died one day short of his 92nd birthday from the effects of Covid-19.

    Gen. Parker was CoS between 1989 and 1992 and among a wide variety of Army postings in a 44 year career, was a veteran of the Siege of Jadotville.

    Normally he would be afforded a State funeral but this is currently not possible, so will be laid to rest by his immediate family and a memorial held at a later date

    May he rest in peace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42


    LÉ Shaw and HMS Tyne have spent the last couple of days doing a joint exercise in the Celtic Sea:
    https://twitter.com/hms_tyne/status/1272923365490274305


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    Vera Lynn shuffled off today.

    Iconic song, helluva lady who ventured to some of the more neglected flea ridden back waters of the War to do her duty.

    RIP


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42


    The US navy has a major fire on board LHD 6 in San Diego.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭thomil


    sparky42 wrote: »
    The US navy has a major fire on board LHD 6 in San Diego.

    Looks like it. 21 injured so far, fire apparently started in the well deck and has worked its way forward. The ship may be a total loss.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42


    thomil wrote: »
    Looks like it. 21 injured so far, fire apparently started in the well deck and has worked its way forward. The ship may be a total loss.


    In the Well Deck? Wow given what we've seen from the hanger the fire would have spread massively alright, certainly likely to a write off in such a case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42


    A clip of the morning after:
    https://www.facebook.com/denis.bondarenko.56/videos/10220491883020080/
    The fire burned through the Bridge superstructure with one of the masts collapsing and reports one of the CWIS collapsed as well, they are now using Bambi bucket drops as well as the other water hoses. Hard to see anything of value being left in her now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭thomil


    sparky42 wrote: »
    A clip of the morning after:
    https://www.facebook.com/denis.bondarenko.56/videos/10220491883020080/
    The fire burned through the Bridge superstructure with one of the masts collapsing and reports one of the CWIS collapsed as well, they are now using Bambi bucket drops as well as the other water hoses. Hard to see anything of value being left in her now.

    The only way I can see her ever being recommissioned is if they strip her down to the waterline and rebuild her to the standards of an America class LHA. The latter is almost identical in dimensions to the Wasp class after all, and given the damage that the fire has caused, I doubt that there's anything above the waterline that's worth saving.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42


    thomil wrote: »
    The only way I can see her ever being recommissioned is if they strip her down to the waterline and rebuild her to the standards of an America class LHA. The latter is almost identical in dimensions to the Wasp class after all, and given the damage that the fire has caused, I doubt that there's anything above the waterline that's worth saving.


    Far cheaper just to order another America Class I would imagine, as you say it's hard to see how anything above the waterline is of use, even the steel must be suspect after over 24 hours of burning on board, there's some reports that the flight deck has collapsed. Currently they are managing to hold the fire from the fuel tanks though which is a good thing.


    Wonder is anyone downwind arguing about wearing masks now?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    They seem to have the fire under control but apparently its still burning in there. Surely it has to be a write off by this stage?

    It will surely be an interesting investigation as to the causes. It sounds like the shipyard had it wide open from one end to the other for maintenance with the fire fighting systems disabled and few crew or workers aboard.

    Its not even the first time this type of thing has happened. The USS Miami sub also had a fire in 2012 but it was found to have been deliberately set, the sub was a write off and the shipyard worker who set the fire got 17 years in prison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42


    They seem to have the fire under control but apparently its still burning in there. Surely it has to be a write off by this stage?

    It will surely be an interesting investigation as to the causes. It sounds like the shipyard had it wide open from one end to the other for maintenance with the fire fighting systems disabled and few crew or workers aboard.

    Its not even the first time this type of thing has happened. The USS Miami sub also had a fire in 2012 but it was found to have been deliberately set, the sub was a write off and the shipyard worker who set the fire got 17 years in prison.


    In fairness, it seems the yard had the proper mechanisms for closing all the hatches, the reports now suggest they were in the middle of shutting the fire zone and activating the fire fighting systems when "something" in the area on fire exploded driving the crews back and spreading the fire further. After that it was impossible to control. Add in it seems that area had plenty of flammable material (cardboard, drywall, oil, rags...) so it had plenty of fuel.


    After this long burning and with those temperatures it would seem highly unlikely to be repairable, I mean you have to think you've steal weakening issues now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42


    So four days later, the Navy reports that all fires have been extinguished... Now comes the clean up and investigation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,259 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    An American leadership coach (And former green beret) interviewing the Irish Chief of Staff last week.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_TUttOByGc


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    sparky42 wrote: »
    After this long burning and with those temperatures it would seem highly unlikely to be repairable, I mean you have to think you've steal weakening issues now.

    Your correct Sparky, she's going for the scrapper.

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/11/30/navy-will-scrap-fire-ravaged-bonhomme-richard/

    She had just been in the ship yard for 18 months and had 250 million buck worth of an upgrade. Holy moly :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Your correct Sparky, she's going for the scrapper.

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/11/30/navy-will-scrap-fire-ravaged-bonhomme-richard/

    She had just been in the ship yard for 18 months and had 250 million buck worth of an upgrade. Holy moly :pac:


    Somebodies insurance company is going to get a hell a bill I imagine, though I'd guess the USN is going to go through her with a fine toothcomb to learn all they can from the fire damage, after that wonder will we see a Sinkex?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,320 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Not much to be learnt from a sinkex with a hull that has already suffered structural weakening. She'll be recycled.

    Word is JAG is going after the contractors who caused the initial fire.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    Not much to be learnt from a sinkex with a hull that has already suffered structural weakening. She'll be recycled.

    Word is JAG is going after the contractors who caused the initial fire.


    Not much, but it would be a nice exercise for those involved given her size, or sunk for an artificial reef, though as you say most likely recycled.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,164 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Former Chief of Staff Lt. General James Parker (rtd) has died one day short of his 92nd birthday from the effects of Covid-19.

    Gen. Parker was CoS between 1989 and 1992 and among a wide variety of Army postings in a 44 year career, was a veteran of the Siege of Jadotville.

    Normally he would be afforded a State funeral but this is currently not possible, so will be laid to rest by his immediate family and a memorial held at a later date

    May he rest in peace.

    Jim Parker was not in Jadotville.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,320 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Jim Parker was not in Jadotville.

    Jim went out with the 35th as assistant Int Officer. Not "A" Coy though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,320 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Not much, but it would be a nice exercise for those involved given her size, or sunk for an artificial reef, though as you say most likely recycled.

    Not long since a flat top was subject to Sinkex(USS America CV66 in 2005). Little has changed weapon wise in the meantime.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,164 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    Jim went out with the 35th as assistant Int Officer. Not "A" Coy though.

    There were those who were in Jadotville and those elsewhere in the Congo. Some at BN HQ broke off communication with "A" Coy and left them to their fate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    Not long since a flat top was subject to Sinkex(USS America CV66 in 2005). Little has changed weapon wise in the meantime.

    Big difference though between a CV and a LHD in terms of internal compartmentalisation, not too mention the age gap in terms of construction methods and design, so it could still be a learning experience, just as how the fire got out of control is likely to be a massive study for the USN and others.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,320 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Big difference though between a CV and a LHD in terms of internal compartmentalisation, not too mention the age gap in terms of construction methods and design, so it could still be a learning experience, just as how the fire got out of control is likely to be a massive study for the USN and others.

    Do you think?
    The only significant difference is one had steam catapults, the other didn't. One had a well dock, the other didn't.
    Both had flat tops, both had internal aircraft hangars accessed by deck edge lifts.
    One was 70m longer than the other..


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    Do you think?
    The only significant difference is one had steam catapults, the other didn't. One had a well dock, the other didn't.
    Both had flat tops, both had internal aircraft hangars accessed by deck edge lifts.
    One was 70m longer than the other..


    You really think the survivability of a CV and a LHD is the same? The Well Deck alone is a huge difference (for example the issues Ro-Ro's have when they get water on their car decks). Moreover you are talking about ships separated by over 30 years in design and construction, the CV's are in a different league to LHD's in design and suriviability.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,313 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Is the Chief of Staff for the Judge Advocate General's Legal Center and School in Charlottesville, Virginia a pretty big deal?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,240 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Is the Chief of Staff for the Judge Advocate General's Legal Center and School in Charlottesville, Virginia a pretty big deal?

    In what context? the position is held by a colonel.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    In what context? the position is held by a colonel.
    Also, Chief instructor of all Army prosecutors throughout the world. In the context of a glowing letter of recommendation in order to get into a top US law school.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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