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The Mess - Military Forum Off Topic Thread!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    The guess online is another of those Iranian silkworm knockoffs..... which I suppose is as good a guess as any.

    I suppose so, be interesting to see if there's any more details that come out, but yeah I wouldn't give that frigate much of a chance against such a weapon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    There was some suggestion early on it was a C-802 missile, rather than a Silkworm, but this.....
    sparky42 wrote: »

    .....probably explains why the Crotale missiles those vessels carry weren't used.

    In other news from that part of the world, a USMC Osprey was lost on Sunday morning during the extraction of a SF following a raid on a rebel compound - but it sounds like it was impacted by a mechanical malfunction and was destroyed when it couldn't be recovered, rather than lost to ground fire.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭ezra_


    Jawgap wrote: »
    In other news from that part of the world, a USMC Osprey was lost on Sunday morning during the extraction of a SF following a raid on a rebel compound - but it sounds like it was impacted by a mechanical malfunction and was destroyed when it couldn't be recovered, rather than lost to ground fire.

    Isn't that the standard line for downed SF aircraft?
    They always report it was a mechanical failure as opposed to being shot down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    ezra_ wrote: »
    Isn't that the standard line for downed SF aircraft?
    They always report it was a mechanical failure as opposed to being shot down.

    True, and I doubt we'll never get to the full truth......

    ......the full report (or as much as they are letting on) is here.....

    U.S. Commando Killed in Yemen in Trump’s First Counterterrorism Operation


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Given it's an Osprey, if it had been shot down there would be a good chance of a lot more dead than what they had, I'd say it might have either broken down (not unusual with the Osprey still) or been damaged enough to make it unflyable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Here's a cool video of a whole flock of Ospreys...



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Here's a cool video of a whole flock of Ospreys...


    I believe the SAS are getting some ospreys, be cool seeing them fly of our carriers, seem better in every way than the Chinnocks, hope we just buy them from the yanks and don't let BAE get involved though lest they be twice the price and half as good ffs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Video of the attack shot from onboard the vessel....

    Cheers, to me it doesn't look like the ship was taking any defensive action to avoid/stop the suicide boat.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Situational awareness seems to be at zero.

    What were they doing allowing ANY small high-speed boat within a thousand meters of their position?

    I'd like to think that any snackbar-lover trying it these days with a Western vessel would be nothing but a steaming hole in the ocean.

    tac


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Cheers, to me it doesn't look like the ship was taking any defensive action to avoid/stop the suicide boat.

    Difficult to know as you only see the final few seconds, but maybe the skipper ordered her about when he perceived the threat so the engines and stern would take the impact instead of the forward compartments where'd there be more people living and working?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Difficult to know as you only see the final few seconds, but maybe the skipper ordered her about when he perceived the threat so the engines and stern would take the impact instead of the forward compartments where'd there be more people living and working?

    True, though there doesn't seem to be any sign of defensive fire either. it just looks a bit strange.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Phalanx needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    gallag wrote: »
    Phalanx needed.

    Not really, a couple of .50 cals would most likely have been enough, or the 30mm mounts the RN use. A Phalanx would be a complete overkill imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    gallag wrote: »
    Phalanx needed.

    This is important, firstly the ship under attack has to actually be FITTED with Phalanx.

    Unbelievably, given the local threat, the 'Al Madinah' Class frigate has NO close-in anti-aircraft defence system and only TWO 20mm cannon.

    I'm betting that changes fast.

    tac


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Been watching the RDFRA presentation yesterday. Nice to see the issues are going up the line.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gY2CaDIEiU


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    A brief essay by George Friedman on the future for NATO, or lack thereof.

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/george-friedman-says-nato-is-an-illusion-2016-4?r=US&IR=T


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,019 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    gallag wrote: »
    I believe the SAS are getting some ospreys, be cool seeing them fly of our carriers, seem better in every way than the Chinnocks, hope we just buy them from the yanks and don't let BAE get involved though lest they be twice the price and half as good ffs.

    Awful aircraft, more of a hazard to its passengers than the enemy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    gallag wrote: »
    I believe the SAS are getting some ospreys, be cool seeing them fly of our carriers, seem better in every way than the Chinnocks, hope we just buy them from the yanks and don't let BAE get involved though lest they be twice the price and half as good ffs.

    I think that might be a bit of wishful thinking to be honest, in terms f the UK ordering Osprey's, with the new hole in the budget and the future holes coming down the track.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5 captpaulf


    They already have at least 1 - saw it late last year flying low and slow over Central London.  Very impressive and bloody noisy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    captpaulf wrote: »
    They already have at least 1 - saw it late last year flying low and slow over Central London. Very impressive and bloody noisy.

    Was it marked as an RAF bird or a US bird? It could easily have been one There's no mention online of the RAF having any active, and even for special forces, standing up a new aircraft without any attention seems unlikely.

    Also looking online that was when Obama was visiting so could easily have been US manned ones (remember when he was here there were Chinooks deployed here).


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    captpaulf wrote: »
    They already have at least 1 - saw it late last year flying low and slow over Central London

    No, that one was American.

    It is part of the helicopter entourage that accompanied Obama when he was over trying to interfere in the Brexit vote (oh the irony).....

    It is in the green livery like Marine-1, however the aircraft is not yet cleared to carry POTUS.

    14392804076_c6027d8523.jpg



    The UK may get some eventually, but not in the next decade.... they could do with some.
    They need a tanker option for the Queen Liz and its 'Killer Bees'


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    No, that one was American.

    It is part of the helicopter entourage that accompanied Obama when he was over trying to interfere in the Brexit vote (oh the irony).....

    It is in the green livery like Marine-1, however the aircraft is not yet cleared to carry POTUS.

    The UK may get some eventually, but not in the next decade.... they could do with some.
    They need a tanker option for the Queen Liz and its 'Killer Bees'

    As I've said before given the "discovered" new hole in the budget along with the potential nightmare of the SSBN's budget I don't see them having funding coming available anytime soon. I mean you have the 26's and the 31's (whatever they end up being), and with the investment in the Merlin AWAC's I'd say they will hold off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 captpaulf


    My bad - it was a US one - couldn't make out the markings. Checking back on the press reports it does appear to have been a US one despite initial reports to the contrary.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    A procurement project down in Australia going at the moment is called "Land 400 phase 2"

    Its goal is to replace their fleet of armoured reconnaissance vehicles wikied here

    The competition has been whittled down to 2 competitors....
    - From Rheinmetal/Germany is a Boxer APC with a 'lance turret' (probably the favourite).
    - From BAE a nordic combo where a Patria AMV is combined with the turret of a CV-90

    What is remarkable is the sheer size differential between the veteran and its replacement!

    The Boxer
    C5j5wxbUoAA1f3Z.jpg

    The AMV-30
    C5j5wxiVMAE6sic.jpg

    Its clear that to be survivable in the future you have to get big, in a big way!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    I suppose the reality of the aversion to losses and the lethality of weapon systems does mean that you need larger vehicles/more armour etc I mean the Boxer in combat load is about 3 times the weight of the ASLAV. Makes you wonder what we'll end up with when the MOWAG's get replaced next decade...


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    The Al-Queda #2 met his maker recently in rebel held Syria... killed by an air-to-ground missile.

    What was news to me was the use of a missile that either was inert or had its war-head replaced with some concrete!?

    Here's a picture of the damaged car..... see, no explosives

    ?q=70&w=1440&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftimedotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2017%2F02%2Fhdhdnc1.jpg

    C5nYcSBUYAAWVV2.jpg

    You could nearly buff out that damage :D

    This is (apparently) a remnant of the missile used.... which seems like some cement/concrete.

    C5oBq9aWUAAwuzn.jpg

    What is fascinating here is the extreme to-the-centimeter accuracy from these weapons as well as the possibility of next to zero collateral damage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Makes you wonder what we'll end up with when (if) the MOWAG's get replaced next decade...

    I would highly doubt that Ireland will bother to purchase something as beefed up like these modern APCs/IFVs.

    It seems to me at least that the role of our few APCs is to parade up O'Connell Street on St Patricks day...... never ever to be anywhere near a fight against a modern insurgent/guerilla force, which would have Irish forces hopelessly out-gunned.

    I could be wrong, but I *think* the Mowag III is still being made/supported by the manufacturer, so if I had to guess this far out I think the government would just do a service life extension programme (SLEP) rather than buying new larger vehicles.

    I think we paid €1.3m for our MOWAGs, but to compare.... the bare-bones APC from Patria costs just north of €2m per unit, that is without any weapons , defensive aids or armour enhancements.
    So, €3m each is very possible.... more for the Cavalry/IFV versions.

    Our government would surely balk at that kind of outlay?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    I would highly doubt that Ireland will bother to purchase something as beefed up like these modern APCs/IFVs.

    It seems to me at least that the role of our few APCs is to parade up O'Connell Street on St Patricks day...... never ever to be anywhere near a fight against a modern insurgent/guerilla force, which would have Irish forces hopelessly out-gunned.

    I could be wrong, but I *think* the Mowag III is still being made/supported by the manufacturer, so if I had to guess this far out I think the government would just do a service life extension programme (SLEP) rather than buying new larger vehicles.

    I think we paid €1.3m for our MOWAGs, but to compare.... the bare-bones APC from Patria costs just north of €2m per unit, that is without any weapons , defensive aids or armour enhancements.
    So, €3m each is very possible.... more for the Cavalry/IFV versions.

    Our government would surely balk at that kind of outlay?

    Our MOWAG's are going in for a SLEP starting soon enough, the Government already confirmed that. And while that will extend their lifespan by the mid 2020's they are going to have to be replaced (and the Scorpions before that), so by that stage it will be a larger unit to replace them (even just the future version of MOWAG)


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