Social Welfare scams

rugbynut

I have absolutely no problem with people claiming social welfare if they are entitled to it. However my problem is with the people who are not entitled to it. Ok, the government made a big play at closing the loophole of foreign nationals claiming even when they are not in the country. But where I live - a rural area. I have 10 houses in close proximity to me. 4 of those households are claiming disibility of some kind. In all cases its back problems. I was at a 21st recently and these people were dancing all night! 1 house has a complicated scam going. She is claiming lone parents allowance. The partner (who drives a Lexus by the way and has his own courier business) owns the house but its on the social housing scheme?? He gets rent of her and is subsidised by the council and he lives there also although the council don't know it. 2 households are claiming the dole but work also. Also 2 neighbours have claims in for accidents! Classy area!
My point is that the government could get heir 3 billion alone if they investigated each social welfare claim thoroughly and followed up with spot checks. It kills me seeing these people getting money for jam while myself and wife are working our backsides off. Who are the fools them or us.

Heineken Helen

if they had accidents why shouldn't they claim?

I have back problems, slipped disc... and I can certainly dance... in fact it's one of the only times I'm not in agony with it... lying, sitting and walking uphill are the worst. As for the girl with the rich boyfriend, report her... but you know nothing about the others... doctors recommend lotsa exercise for back problems.

Your curtains must be twitching all the time... how do you know so much about your neighbours? Do they discuss their individual claims with you in person before going to the dole?

PCPhoto

the fact of the matter is that the entire governmental system in this country is flawed.

Social welfare
HSE
Legal System
Political process

all of the above could do with serious reform.

problem is that once you start investigating and catching people - when do you stop ?

Its true that there are many people out there screwing the social welfare system and there are families and generations of families who have never worked and always claimed benefits.....but I'd also like to point out there are loads of genuine cases out there.

aare

I am with you in cases where the fiddles are so extreme that those involved could easily support themselves without benefits, but the cost of investigating carefully enough to punish the guilty while protecting the innocent from malice would be far too great for the returns at this time.

Particularly when the relevant departments cannot even process the new claims.

You have to allow for the fact that, in these times, to cut off an innocent person could be a death sentence...and vulnerable people are often the targets of bullying in the form of, pretty sophisticated, malicious complaint that MUST be weeded out.

Also, I feel obliged to point out that I once knew a young woman with a (genuine) very severe back injury who could dance me under the table...and that takes some doing:D, so SOME appearances can be deceptive, but I agree, not all.

Another national amnesty mightn't be a bad idea though?

Heineken Helen

aare wrote: »

Also, I feel obliged to point out that I once knew a young woman with a (genuine) very severe back injury who could dance me under the table...and that takes some doing:D, so SOME appearances can be deceptive, but I agree, not all.

I'm not claiming disability for my back and generally don't even talk about it... the only way people would know is cos I have a very SLIGHT limp... BUT you get me on the dancefloor (preferably with a few drinks) and it's one of the few times I'm not constantly aware of feeling uncomfortable... and now I have to worry about stupid people standing watching me and thinking 'there's nothing wrong with her' but I can assure you it's very serious and I could end up crippled cos of it.

aare

PCPhoto wrote: »

the fact of the matter is that the entire governmental system in this country is flawed.

Social welfare
HSE
Legal System
Political process

all of the above could do with serious reform.

Streamlining alone would save a FORTUNE...

PCPhoto wrote: »

problem is that once you start investigating and catching people - when do you stop ?

NOW look what you did?

You done gone and opened the biggest can off worms of all...the fact that this country (and particularly the welfare system) is STILL run on the assumption of a little bit of fiddling...though not to anything like the same extent as in the past...

You just can't afford to pull the plug on that overnight...they may even have to count on people being able to "fiddle a bit" when they start making deeper cuts.

PCPhoto wrote: »

Its true that there are many people out there screwing the social welfare system and there are families and generations of families who have never worked and always claimed benefits.....but I'd also like to point out there are loads of genuine cases out there.

That is also very true, and if you clamp down to harshly, what is apt to happen is that the innocent suffer while the guilty go on getting away scot free...simply because they know how to.

aare

Heineken Helen wrote: »

I'm not claiming disability for my back and generally don't even talk about it... the only way people would know is cos I have a very SLIGHT limp... BUT you get me on the dancefloor (preferably with a few drinks) and it's one of the few times I'm not constantly aware of feeling uncomfortable... and now I have to worry about stupid people standing watching me and thinking 'there's nothing wrong with her' but I can assure you it's very serious and I could end up crippled cos of it.

You sound to be in a very similar position...might even be the same person.

Heineken Helen

aare wrote: »

You sound to be in a very similar position...might even be the same person.

Never said I COULD dance... just that I DO and I love it... but I'm probably also one of those people that others look at and say I've no right to be on the dancefloor at all... cos I've two left feet

AHHHH... how people judge :rolleyes: It's when people start listening to them that I get worried... and that seems to be happening these days

aare

Heineken Helen wrote: »

Never said I COULD dance... just that I DO and I love it... but I'm probably also one of those people that others look at and say I've no right to be on the dancefloor at all... cos I've two left feet

That bad? Maybe you could get disability for that so?

She really could dance...SO well I STILL hate her for it...even before we mention the waist length auburn curls...

Heineken Helen wrote: »

AHHHH... how people judge :rolleyes: It's when people start listening to them that I get worried... and that seems to be happening these days

People are scared, some of them feel better letting off steam, telling themselves they know where the bogeyman lives and how to solve this...

I just have my heart in my mouth in case they really pick up burning brands and go on a witchhunt...

Because, when they do whoever they are *after*, they'll have to take me first...and I am a mortal coward really...I just don't have what it takes to stand by and watch.

There are good people who aren't losing the run of themselves though...take a look at what Hagar has been up to, it'll do your heart good.

Quartet

rugbynut wrote: »

I have absolutely no problem with people claiming social welfare if they are entitled to it. However my problem is with the people who are not entitled to it. Ok, the government made a big play at closing the loophole of foreign nationals claiming even when they are not in the country. But where I live - a rural area. I have 10 houses in close proximity to me. 4 of those households are claiming disibility of some kind. In all cases its back problems. I was at a 21st recently and these people were dancing all night! 1 house has a complicated scam going. She is claiming lone parents allowance. The partner (who drives a Lexus by the way and has his own courier business) owns the house but its on the social housing scheme?? He gets rent of her and is subsidised by the council and he lives there also although the council don't know it. 2 households are claiming the dole but work also. Also 2 neighbours have claims in for accidents! Classy area!
My point is that the government could get heir 3 billion alone if they investigated each social welfare claim thoroughly and followed up with spot checks. It kills me seeing these people getting money for jam while myself and wife are working our backsides off. Who are the fools them or us.

Limerick / Tipperary border any chance?:cool:

"Back Problems" would appear to be a favouite one - generally undiagnosable but cant be dispoved either....

The odd MD will sign disability certs because they 'know' the family and cant refuse somebody repeatably claiming back problems....

I would be wary though of dancing the night away etc if a person was claiming - it will only last as long as they dont get caught! Its not a very convincing pastime for someone claimimg!

rugbynut

Alright, alright. I specifically stated at the outset that I didn't have a problem with people who are entitled to social welfare and I don't. It's the people that are not entitled to it and are claiming it that I want exposed. I've been paying taxes for 30 years and I don't want my funds going to people who don't deserve it-that's all I'm saying. And the government have a duty to ensure that my tax is put to go use. So investigate where it's going and make sure it goes to the right people-surely every right thinking citizen shouldn't have a problem with this??

Heineken Helen wrote: »

if they had accidents why shouldn't they claim?

I have back problems, slipped disc... and I can certainly dance... in fact it's one of the only times I'm not in agony with it... lying, sitting and walking uphill are the worst. As for the girl with the rich boyfriend, report her... but you know nothing about the others... doctors recommend lotsa exercise for back problems.

Your curtains must be twitching all the time... how do you know so much about your neighbours? Do they discuss their individual claims with you in person before going to the dole?

scorpioishere

rugbynut wrote: »

I have absolutely no problem with people claiming social welfare if they are entitled to it. However my problem is with the people who are not entitled to it. Ok, the government made a big play at closing the loophole of foreign nationals claiming even when they are not in the country. But where I live - a rural area. I have 10 houses in close proximity to me. 4 of those households are claiming disibility of some kind. In all cases its back problems. I was at a 21st recently and these people were dancing all night! 1 house has a complicated scam going. She is claiming lone parents allowance. The partner (who drives a Lexus by the way and has his own courier business) owns the house but its on the social housing scheme?? He gets rent of her and is subsidised by the council and he lives there also although the council don't know it. 2 households are claiming the dole but work also. Also 2 neighbours have claims in for accidents! Classy area!
My point is that the government could get heir 3 billion alone if they investigated each social welfare claim thoroughly and followed up with spot checks. It kills me seeing these people getting money for jam while myself and wife are working our backsides off. Who are the fools them or us.

Me too i don't have any problem with anybody claiming social welfare if they really deserve it. But unfortunately like you i know so many people who claim social welfare and they doesn't deserve it at all. I know lots of people who works 38/40 hours a week and got social welfare too. I know also lots of people pretending to have disability, pretending they have pain, they can't move their hands, their elbow, etc etc and then got disability benefit and the same people you will see yapping at the corner of the road with others and also carrying heavy boxes od cans of beers.

Also on FM104 show one day there was a talk about social welfare and this guy rang and said he's been getting social welfare for 7 years while he is still working. he said he used the money to travel, to pay women for sex, to go on holidays 6/8 times a year.

Our tax money is going to these dirty ****ers who doesn't deserve social welfare at all. its time the government investigate each individual. It's because of them the country is ****ed today.:mad:

scorpioishere

Heineken Helen wrote: »

I'm not claiming disability for my back and generally don't even talk about it... the only way people would know is cos I have a very SLIGHT limp... BUT you get me on the dancefloor (preferably with a few drinks) and it's one of the few times I'm not constantly aware of feeling uncomfortable... and now I have to worry about stupid people standing watching me and thinking 'there's nothing wrong with her' but I can assure you it's very serious and I could end up crippled cos of it.

Its not stupid but its a way to tell the authority who deserves the social welfare and who doesn't. If you don't deserve it why you should get it. I dnt want to pay tax for lazy ****ers who pretends that they can't work because of some fake disability. If you can't work because of your limp, you can't dance either.

dodgyme

scorpioishere wrote: »

I know also lots of people pretending to have disability, pretending they have pain, they can't move their hands, their elbow, etc etc:

I know a few also. They have lovely gardens and seems to have no problems with wheel barrows and digging flower beds and offering to landscape your garden because you are working late (to pay their dole disability) and cant get to it, ...oh ... as long as you can pay them in cash!:rolleyes:

PCPhoto

while I agree that the government should investigate each and every claimant to verify authenticity - thats not possible.

IMO what they need to do is take each area and investigate: ie. disability benefit, how do people use/abuse this area of social welfare - how can we stop them.

Same goes for other state benefits ? Childrens allowance/single parent allowances, rent allowance, disability benefit etc etc.

it could take a number of years but given time and effort the entire system could be (almost) flawless.

best of my knowledge disability benefit is the biggest one that is abused - people claim they are injured and cant work -

what do you do when they are caught ?

just tell them politely to stop:rolleyes::rolleyes: (Pretty please !! ) or prosecute them through the courts for benefit fraud (Which of course we pay for - :eek:FREE LEGAL AID :eek:).... lets face it we cant win and should elect the scammers to political positions - they know the system better and its loopholes.

mikemac

Maybe fraud investigation is an area that should be expanded in DSFA.
What they are doing at the minute isn't working so maybe they need to expand.

Not new hiring but transfer in people from other departments. While it's probably boring work it does sound a bit more interesting then processing claims all day.

So if there are civil servants idle somewhere maybe they'd like a go at this

Ludo

Why do people always come on here giving out about how people are ripping off the social welfare and taking money from our pockets. They all seem to know loads of people who are claiming dole or other benefits which they are not entitled to. Have any of the people who complain about it actually done anything about it???

Here a link for those people:

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/ContactUs/Pages/reportfraud.aspx

Quit whinging unless you are prepared to take action.

Lobelia Overhill

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it your PRSI that pays for Social Welfare...?

I thought tax was for summat else

scorpioishere

Ludo wrote: »

Why do people always come on here giving out about how people are ripping off the social welfare and taking money from our pockets. They all seem to know loads of people who are claiming dole or other benefits which they are not entitled to. Have any of the people who complain about it actually done anything about it???

Here a link for those people:

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/ContactUs/Pages/reportfraud.aspx

Quit whinging unless you are prepared to take action.

By the way i did report three cases to the social department about three people i know and who is geting disability benefit on false pretences and one claiming dole while working. On investigation they no longer receive it and am so happy they act so quickly. And just to let you know that these people are one friend of mine and two of them are my mother's neighbours.
I am still looking for more, dnt worry i will get their ass kicked.

gamblor1975

scorpioishere wrote: »

By the way i did report three cases to the social department about three people i know and who is geting disability benefit on false pretences and one claiming dole while working. On investigation they no longer receive it and am so happy they act so quickly. And just to let you know that these people are one friend of mine and two of them are my mother's neighbours.
I am still looking for more, dnt worry i will get their ass kicked.

I think that with the state the country is in financially, we cannot afford as a people to give money away to those who do not deserve it. They are taking money directly from those who need it most.

The dept. of SW should introduce an incentive scheme for people to report scammers. Start with a short amnesty to allow people to sign off if they are scamming but apply the full rigour of the law to those found out after the amnesty.

Offer people say 10% of the saving they make for the state for a year. People have no appetite anymore for this kind of behavior.

That should get some people off their collective arses to start reporting. I mean we all know someone...right?

Gamblor.

rugbynut

I believe the correct way to tackle this is have a Zero Tolerance approach. It's simple, you issue an amnesty to everyone - Stop Claiming Falsely Or Else. Give 6 months, then go after the false claims with a vengence. Anyone after that who are caught should have all social welfare payments cut off. Draconian? Yes. But these are hard times. I have no time for criminals because that is what these people are- they are stealing, plain and simple.

PCPhoto wrote: »

while I agree that the government should investigate each and every claimant to verify authenticity - thats not possible.

IMO what they need to do is take each area and investigate: ie. disability benefit, how do people use/abuse this area of social welfare - how can we stop them.

Same goes for other state benefits ? Childrens allowance/single parent allowances, rent allowance, disability benefit etc etc.

it could take a number of years but given time and effort the entire system could be (almost) flawless.

best of my knowledge disability benefit is the biggest one that is abused - people claim they are injured and cant work -

what do you do when they are caught ?

just tell them politely to stop:rolleyes::rolleyes: (Pretty please !! ) or prosecute them through the courts for benefit fraud (Which of course we pay for - :eek:FREE LEGAL AID :eek:).... lets face it we cant win and should elect the scammers to political positions - they know the system better and its loopholes.

Heineken Helen

aare wrote: »

That bad? Maybe you could get disability for that so?

She really could dance...SO well I STILL hate her for it...even before we mention the waist length auburn curls...

People are scared, some of them feel better letting off steam, telling themselves they know where the bogeyman lives and how to solve this...

I just have my heart in my mouth in case they really pick up burning brands and go on a witchhunt...

Because, when they do whoever they are *after*, they'll have to take me first...and I am a mortal coward really...I just don't have what it takes to stand by and watch.

There are good people who aren't losing the run of themselves though...take a look at what Hagar has been up to, it'll do your heart good.

Yeh I know they're scared but they're resorting to blaming everyone else but themselves... just cos they're lucky enough to have a job When I was still in my job I wasn't blaming anyone but I DID think 'well I'LL get another job no problem if I get laid off':rolleyes: ehhh... right!

So first it was people on the dole, now it's people with disabilities and everyone's a certified doctor and can tell who's really sick and who's not. Some days are better than others with my back and I'm lucky that my experience is just in general admin cos I CAN do that... just have to get up and walk around every now and then. But if I were doing any physical work in my job, I probably WOULD have had to give up work and go on disability.

Sweet thread... I needed that thanks. All the hating and assumptions is getting me down.

Heineken Helen

rugbynut wrote: »

Alright, alright. I specifically stated at the outset that I didn't have a problem with people who are entitled to social welfare and I don't. It's the people that are not entitled to it and are claiming it that I want exposed. I've been paying taxes for 30 years and I don't want my funds going to people who don't deserve it-that's all I'm saying. And the government have a duty to ensure that my tax is put to go use. So investigate where it's going and make sure it goes to the right people-surely every right thinking citizen shouldn't have a problem with this??

Oh no, I agree... but you listed everyone in your neighbourhood who's claiming something... and you seem to think they're ALL scamming? Just seems a bit odd, that's all!

Heineken Helen

scorpioishere wrote: »

Me too i don't have any problem with anybody claiming social welfare if they really deserve it. But unfortunately like you i know so many people who claim social welfare and they doesn't deserve it at all. I know lots of people who works 38/40 hours a week and got social welfare too. I know also lots of people pretending to have disability, pretending they have pain, they can't move their hands, their elbow, etc etc and then got disability benefit and the same people you will see yapping at the corner of the road with others and also carrying heavy boxes od cans of beers.

Also on FM104 show one day there was a talk about social welfare and this guy rang and said he's been getting social welfare for 7 years while he is still working. he said he used the money to travel, to pay women for sex, to go on holidays 6/8 times a year.

Our tax money is going to these dirty ****ers who doesn't deserve social welfare at all. its time the government investigate each individual. It's because of them the country is ****ed today.:mad:

My local shop sells 24 cans of carlsberg for £10 just saying! :rolleyes:

You believe everyone who rings up FM104? :rolleyes:

Heineken Helen

scorpioishere wrote: »

Its not stupid but its a way to tell the authority who deserves the social welfare and who doesn't. If you don't deserve it why you should get it. I dnt want to pay tax for lazy ****ers who pretends that they can't work because of some fake disability. If you can't work because of your limp, you can't dance either.

Excuse me???? Who the hell are you to tell ME how my disability affects me! Dancing is exercise... you're supposed to get plenty of exercise with a bad back... although I'm sure you know that considering you're a certified doctor.

Anyway, I'm gonna take a leaf out of your book and report you :mad: this is just ridiculous.

shelly.m

im a single mum on lone parents with two small boys , if i gave up my benefits and went back to work the cost of fulltime care and rent would leave me with nothin to feed my kids wit.i do agree that people pulling a scam are wrong but what difference does it make to other people? what good is you reporting these people? would u feel better or have a better way of life yourself? NO you wouldnt . i agree the social should have measures in place to deal with fraud but i think nosey people should just mind their own buisness and let the people paid to deal with fraud do their job!
this country is the way it is now because of the stupid ****ers running it or should i say trying to run it.

Ludo

shelly.m wrote: »

i do agree that people pulling a scam are wrong but what difference does it make to other people? what good is you reporting these people? would u feel better or have a better way of life yourself? NO you wouldnt . i agree the social should have measures in place to deal with fraud but i think nosey people should just mind their own buisness and let the people paid to deal with fraud do their job!

What??? The government is running out of money with all its outgoings. My tax is contributing to dole payments for people which is fair enough. But if I know someone who is drawing down dole when they are actually working or committing a fraud in some other way I will report them as in essence they are taking MY money which I have contributed to the state which could be used for things like education and healthcare.

So yes we ALL would have a better way of life if dole fraud was eliminated (other than those scamming it who should find their way of life severly curtailed).

If you saw someone committing a murder or an assault would you ignore it and mind your own business as it has no direct impact on you or other people???

shelly.m

Ludo wrote: »

What??? The government is running out of money with all its outgoings. My tax is contributing to dole payments for people which is fair enough. But if I know someone who is drawing down dole when they are actually working or committing a fraud in some other way I will report them as in essence they are taking MY money which I have contributed to the state which could be used for things like education and healthcare.

So yes we ALL would have a better way of life if dole fraud was eliminated (other than those scamming it who should find their way of life severly curtailed).

If you saw someone committing a murder or an assault would you ignore it and mind your own business as it has no direct impact on you or other people???

yes i agree with some of what you are saying and your right but the point i was trying to make was it wont make your taxes any less , maybe our government should start cutting back their personal expenses and travel expenses too or do we see them taking a pay cut?? NO we dont thats all im trying to say

rasper

These types of threads tend to stereotype a lot of unfortunate people who are practically on the breadline, if you know of fraud going on then report

aare

gamblor1975 wrote: »

Offer people say 10% of the saving they make for the state for a year.

Oh yeah...why not...create employment by reinstating "Witchfinder General" as a career...BRILLIANT!!

For heavens sake, for every fraudulant claim there are at least two attempts to use the "report fraud" system vexatiously as a tool for malice already...but if you pay 'em they'll get even MORE plentiful and convincing...

scorpioishere wrote: »

By the way i did report three cases to the social department about three people i know and who is geting disability benefit on false pretences and one claiming dole while working. On investigation they no longer receive it and am so happy they act so quickly. And just to let you know that these people are one friend of mine and two of them are my mother's neighbours.
I am still looking for more, dnt worry i will get their ass kicked.

Whatever about your mother's neighbours (if you cannot choose your own, you certainly won't be able to choose hers) pardon me if I find anyone having an attitude like that to those they choose as "friends" absolutely chilling, whichever way I look at it...last time I checked we are supposed to care about and support our chosen friends, not strive diligently to "get their arses kicked".

rugbynut wrote: »

I believe the correct way to tackle this is have a Zero Tolerance approach. It's simple, you issue an amnesty to everyone - Stop Claiming Falsely Or Else. Give 6 months, then go after the false claims with a vengence. Anyone after that who are caught should have all social welfare payments cut off. Draconian? Yes. But these are hard times. I have no time for criminals because that is what these people are- they are stealing, plain and simple.

That could work really, REALLY well, and has pretty much been done before...but not at a time like this, when people who were working, or able to, could have worked, but not now when nobody has a hope of getting work.

You cannot sentence people, and their families, to starvation, homelessness and destitution for the sake of minor fraud...that would be insane.

Incidentally, everybody does realise that Disability is geared towards allowing disabled people to work as much as they are able to, for reduced benefit, without losing their entitlement altogether?

Everybody does also realise that some disabilities are not obvious to the untrained naked eye?

And finally, everybody does realise that, even in the height of the Celtic Tiger, there were a lot of people on disability (as well as other long term benefits) who wanted to, and could have been working for years if, relatively cheap, and simple, appropriate supports had been provided, but no matter how they pleaded for those supports, they never were provided, so that they never had a chance.

Just so you know...

shelly.m

rasper wrote: »

These types of threads tend to stereotype a lot of unfortunate people who are practically on the breadline, if you know of fraud going on then report

ya i agree with you but i dont see why some people have to get so angry and ignorant just because they have never known what it is like to not know where your next meal or next weeks rent is comin from.I didnt choose to be a single parent myself and my partner just didnt work out ,

Heineken Helen

aare wrote: »

Whatever about your mother's neighbours (if you cannot choose your own, you certainly won't be able to choose hers) pardon me if I find anyone having an attitude like that to those they choose as "friends" absolutely chilling, whichever way I look at it...last time I checked we are supposed to care about and support our chosen friends, not strive diligently to "get their arses kicked".


You cannot sentence people, and their families, to starvation, homelessness and destitution for the sake of minor fraud...that would be insane.

AGREED! My God, if I EVER found out a friend of mine reported me for something :eek: very very very chilling indeed.

Heineken Helen

I'm living in England at the mo... but I really really hope these opinions aren't indicative of the general opinion in Ireland?

shelly.m

Heineken Helen wrote: »

AGREED! My God, if I EVER found out a friend of mine reported me for something :eek: very very very chilling indeed.

I AGREE its horrible

Heineken Helen

shelly.m wrote: »

I AGREE its horrible

And yet you've no way of knowing... they'd probably go on being all nice to your face and asking you out for a drink whilst judging you all the time and wondering how exactly you could afford that round :rolleyes:

Which of the people is the bigger arsehole in that scenario? And yet he'll go home patting himself on the back for doing his service to his country. I wonder did he let his friend know he reported him? Or did he let him continue to think he's his friend and try and snoop around for more reportable offenses???

Tchocky

We should certainly not report our friends or neighbours. For

Let those who don't know us do the reporting. You know, those people who know us well enough to spot benefit fraud, but not well enough as to make it socially awkward.

aare

Tchocky wrote: »

We should certainly not report our friends or neighbours.

Let those who don't know us do the reporting. You know, those people who know us well enough to spot benefit fraud, but not well enough as to make it socially awkward.

It's not "socially awkward" to hang out with someone, pretending to be a friend, all the while, unbeknownst to them, spying on them, gleefully anticipating "getting their arses kicked"...

It is deeply dysfunctional.

Quartet

Tchocky wrote: »

We should certainly not report our friends or neighbours. For

Let those who don't know us do the reporting. You know, those people who know us well enough to spot benefit fraud, but not well enough as to make it socially awkward.

Thats a very laudable response - however do you think that all the "friends & neighbours" will have the same attitude -hmmmmm

Socially awkward Scenario

"Hi I Bob, I lived down the road from from you and have just reported you to the DSW!"

Where I live it wouldn't be socially awkard it would probably be homicide!

You will probalbly never knew who reports on who...

Heineken Helen

aare wrote: »

It's not "socially awkward" to hang out with someone, pretending to be a friend, all the while, unbeknownst to them, spying on them, gleefully anticipating "getting their arses kicked"...

It is deeply dysfunctional.

Agreed... and, just like we may all have known scammers, we've also all known THOSE PEOPLE... and they're JUST as unpopular. Somehow these details get 'leaked' and everybody knows who's doing the reporting. And rightly so... I think you should be able to face your accuser. Everybody in my town knew who did the reporting... ONE guy in particular... and he was treated like crap.

Heineken Helen

Quartet wrote: »

Thats a very laudable response - however do you think that all the "friends & neighbours" will have the same attitude -hmmmmm

Socially awkward Scenario

"Hi I Bob, I lived down the road from from you and have just reported you to the DSW!"

Where I live it wouldn't be socially awkard it would probably be homicide!

You will probalbly never knew who reports on who...

But people DO know... they're just as transparent as those scamming in the first place. Sure, some people are good at it... but ironically the people you THINK are scamming may not be at all and it could be those you think actually DO need and deserve the money. Once people are encouraged to report eachother... there's no knowing where that could lead.

aare

Quartet wrote: »

"Hi I Bob, I lived down the road from from you and have just reported you to the DSW!"

Where I live it wouldn't be socially awkard it would probably be homicide!

You will probalbly never knew who reports on who...

Which also means you will never know, for sure, who DIDN'T...

I really, truly, do not see a society where people are encouraged to actively spy on, and judge, those involved in their own social life as healthy, or workable, at all...tbh I feel it would become toxic on about 10 different levels...

aare

Heineken Helen wrote: »

But people DO know... they're just as transparent as those scamming in the first place. Sure, some people are good at it... but ironically the people you THINK are scamming may not be at all and it could be those you think actually DO need and deserve the money. Once people are encouraged to report eachother... there's no knowing where that could lead.

Sometimes people who derive comfort from spying on other people, start to see what they WANT to see, rather than what is there...

...and besides, didn't somebody once say (rather wisely) "he that hath no sin, let him be the one to cast the first stone".

Finding other people to scapegoat and bully (because that is ALL it is) will not get us through this...but unity and goodwill just might...

Quartet

Heineken Helen wrote: »

But people DO know... they're just as transparent as those scamming in the first place. Sure, some people are good at it... but ironically the people you THINK are scamming may not be at all and it could be those you think actually DO need and deserve the money. Once people are encouraged to report eachother... there's no knowing where that could lead.

HH

I agree

Reporting does happen - for all types of reasons everyday. I dont think people need any encouragement either....

flowerific

rugbynut wrote: »

I have absolutely no problem with people claiming social welfare if they are entitled to it. However my problem is with the people who are not entitled to it. Ok, the government made a big play at closing the loophole of foreign nationals claiming even when they are not in the country. But where I live - a rural area. I have 10 houses in close proximity to me. 4 of those households are claiming disibility of some kind. In all cases its back problems. I was at a 21st recently and these people were dancing all night! 1 house has a complicated scam going. She is claiming lone parents allowance. The partner (who drives a Lexus by the way and has his own courier business) owns the house but its on the social housing scheme?? He gets rent of her and is subsidised by the council and he lives there also although the council don't know it. 2 households are claiming the dole but work also. Also 2 neighbours have claims in for accidents! Classy area!
My point is that the government could get heir 3 billion alone if they investigated each social welfare claim thoroughly and followed up with spot checks. It kills me seeing these people getting money for jam while myself and wife are working our backsides off. Who are the fools them or us.

Have you reported them to the Welfare? and if not why not?
there is an anononous number you can ring to report welfare scams, don't just moan about it and do somthing about it

Heineken Helen

aare wrote: »

Sometimes people who derive comfort from spying on other people, start to see what they WANT to see, rather than what is there...

...and besides, didn't somebody once say (rather wisely) "he that hath no sin, let him be the one to cast the first stone".

Finding other people to scapegoat and bully (because that is ALL it is) will not get us through this...but unity and goodwill just might...

Oh for example, if you're on the dole and manage to keep a happy exterior... you're scamming... no doubt about it. If you're on the dole, you must be miserable... most of us are in fairness but, if I go out in my nice new dress that I MADE, looking all happy with myself, do I have to worry about people reporting me for being happy? And no, I'm not getting carried away... people were commenting on the food queues saying some of them were laughing and joking so they obviously didn't need to be there :eek: or they comment about people with cans of beer... like I said cans of beer are cheap in places. If you see them drinking out of the Moet & Chandon bottle, well maybe you should wonder what they've been saving up to celebrate?

I went to sign on one week and the guy said he saw me sitting in a coffee shop and wondered how I could afford it :eek: . He admitted after he saw my face that he was only joking but seriously... is that what it's come to? If I want to spend £2 on a coffee and sit there with my book for an hour or two... well I actually consider that treating myself... and it saves me from looking at all the things that I can't afford to buy.

Is this really what it's come to?:(

Heineken Helen

Quartet wrote: »

HH

I agree

Reporting does happen - for all types of reasons everyday. I dont think people need any encouragement either....

Good point... I just think it's too easy for somebody to report somebody they know for WHATEVER motive... and turn that person's life upside down for a while. I think if you report somebody, you should be absolutely SURE they're scamming... not just cos they look too happy or you saw them with a can of beer or whatever... but cos you KNOW without a shadow of a doubt. Only then should your conscience be clear.

AND I don't think it should be anonymous either. You don't get to stand up to your accuser... and you're guilty til proven innocent just cos someone made an anonymous phone call about you :rolleyes:

Quartet

From www.welfare.ie

Reporting...

Minister Hanafin said there was a noticeable increase in the number of reports of possible fraud reported to the Central Control Section of the Department by members of the public. 'Last year (2008) 1,044 reports were received from members of the public, an increase of 70% on the previous year. Each and every case reported to the Department is investigated. And all reports made by the public are dealt with in a confidential manner, reports given anonymously are also fully investigated.' (Contact details for the Central Control Section are attached below).

aare

Heineken Helen wrote: »

Oh for example, if you're on the dole and manage to keep a happy exterior... you're scamming... no doubt about it. If you're on the dole, you must be miserable... most of us are in fairness but, if I go out in my nice new dress that I MADE, looking all happy with myself, do I have to worry about people reporting me for being happy? And no, I'm not getting carried away... people were commenting on the food queues saying some of them were laughing and joking so they obviously didn't need to be there :eek: or they comment about people with cans of beer... like I said cans of beer are cheap in places. If you see them drinking out of the Moet & Chandon bottle, well maybe you should wonder what they've been saving up to celebrate?

I went to sign on one week and the guy said he saw me sitting in a coffee shop and wondered how I could afford it :eek: . He admitted after he saw my face that he was only joking but seriously... is that what it's come to? If I want to spend £2 on a coffee and sit there with my book for an hour or two... well I actually consider that treating myself... and it saves me from looking at all the things that I can't afford to buy.

Is this really what it's come to?:(

I'm not sure how people think anyone will ever work again if they don't manage to maintain a positive manner and appearance.

People without joy, hope, or social lives actually become mentally ill, often too mentally ill to work again until they get well...or sometimes, even too mentally ill to survive at all.

Sometimes I really get the feeling that is what some of these people expect...that the welfare claimants will just, quietly, voluntarily suicide to save the e21billion bill, because that would solve it. Except...like people who throw live kittens into a bottle bank rather than kill them mercifully, they don't want to admit it, even to themselves, and would rather place all welfare claimants in cruel and impossible positions, avert their eyes, and hope that nature takes it's course...

My faith in human nature hangs on a belief that NOBODY will ever let people like that have what they want across the board...not again (what exactly DO people think caused Nazi Germany? Something in the water? Nope, it was a galloping recession where everybody started looking for a group, other than their own, to scapegoat, and when the wheel turned, the silver ball was sitting, firmly, on "Jews", but they scapegoated a few others minorities as well to be fair.).

Heineken Helen

aare wrote: »

I'm not sure how people think anyone will ever work again if they don't manage to maintain a positive manner and appearance.

People without joy, hope, or social lives actually become mentally ill, often too mentally ill to work again until they get well...or sometimes, even too mentally ill to survive at all.

Sometimes I really get the feeling that is what some of these people expect...that the welfare claimants will just, quietly, voluntarily suicide to save the e21billion bill, because that would solve it. Except...like people who throw live kittens into a bottle bank rather than kill them mercifully, they don't want to admit it, even to themselves, and would rather place all welfare claimants in cruel and impossible positions, avert their eyes, and hope that nature takes it's course...

My faith in human nature hangs on a belief that NOBODY will ever let people like that have what they want across the board...not again (what exactly DO people think caused Nazi Germany? Something in the water? Nope, it was a galloping recession where everybody started looking for a group, other than their own, to scapegoat, and when the wheel turned, the silver ball was sitting, firmly, on "Jews", but they scapegoated a few others minorities as well to be fair.).

Very well said... I think people just don't consider others when they're coming up with their own opinions. They should simply be thinking they're lucky to have a job right now... rather than being suspicious of everyone and trying to blame somebody for it. So they may know 1 or 2 people on the dole who seem to libe a rather unusual life... and they decide 'there, that's who I'll blame'. A lot of the threads and posts on this board have been really scary. I don't think they consider what will happen to the person they're planning on reporting. Perhaps they don't care... but I don't buy that... if they put themselves in their shoes for a day they certainly would care... they just don't think

aare

Heineken Helen wrote: »

Very well said... I think people just don't consider others when they're coming up with their own opinions. They should simply be thinking they're lucky to have a job right now... rather than being suspicious of everyone and trying to blame somebody for it. So they may know 1 or 2 people on the dole who seem to libe a rather unusual life... and they decide 'there, that's who I'll blame'. A lot of the threads and posts on this board have been really scary. I don't think they consider what will happen to the person they're planning on reporting. Perhaps they don't care... but I don't buy that... if they put themselves in their shoes for a day they certainly would care... they just don't think

I always hope that is it...

Admittedly, a lot of people are just ranting, because they are scared too, and a little rant makes them feel better, even though, in the heel of the hunt, they wouldn't hurt a fly...

Others like the attention, and/or the sense of power it gives them to say something provocative, that threatens somebody's whole life and watch the reaction...

I hope that most of them do not really mean it, I will always hope that...

Heineken Helen

aare wrote: »

I always hope that is it...

Admittedly, a lot of people are just ranting, because they are scared too, and a little rant makes them feel better, even though, in the heel of the hunt, they wouldn't hurt a fly...

Others like the attention, and/or the sense of power it gives them to say something provocative, that threatens somebody's whole life and watch the reaction...

I hope that most of them do not really mean it, I will always hope that...

Same here... I'm gonna have to stop reading these boards soon cos it depresses me... and as if the situation isn't depressing enough without people trying to tell me I could have a job no problem if I got off my lazy arse, or that I shouldn't even look happy, God forbid I should shell out on the odd can of beer to try and forget my situation... oh and I certainly have no right to dance Actually it's a bit funny when I think of it that way.