Pup at brat stage!

Graceland

My pup is nearly 5 months and he is at the brat stage now - and don't I know it, lol.
I'd love to know others experiences - hopefully I'm not alone, lol.
I do try to put manners on him, but he doesn't always like this and can get aggressive with me, snapping and biting. I don't hit him, but I do raise my voice to him and tell him he is bold and I ignore him when he is like this. But he just keeps doing it again and again.
I don't mind too much if this is just his brat stage. I can cope with this if I know he will get over it. But the way he is acting at the moment, I'd hate to think he was going to be like this even when he is older.
Anyone have the same problems, and if so, did they grow out of it. Please tell me they did, lol.

seanybiker

there normally a bit mad when their young. Should grow out of it.

Graceland

seanybiker wrote: »

there normally a bit mad when their young. Should grow out of it.

I hope you're right. He can drive you mad at times, lol.

DBCyc

Graceland wrote: »

My pup is nearly 5 months and he is at the brat stage now - and don't I know it, lol.
I'd love to know others experiences - hopefully I'm not alone, lol.

Be prepared for a few months of fun! Our girl decided to chew on our skirting board and when she was finished, she ate all the knobs off our washing machine!!!

Its funny to look back on now, but quite frustrating at the time!!! She's settled a bit now so there hasn't been any damage in a while (touch wood).

Stick with it...he will settle. The best thing to do is to totally ignore them when they are obviously looking for attention, then when they are calm and settled - reward them.

Graceland

DBCyc wrote: »

Be prepared for a few months of fun! Our girl decided to chew on our skirting board and when she was finished, she ate all the knobs off our washing machine!!!

Its funny to look back on now, but quite frustrating at the time!!! She's settled a bit now so there hasn't been any damage in a while (touch wood).

Stick with it...he will settle. The best thing to do is to totally ignore them when they are obviously looking for attention, then when they are calm and settled - reward them.

At the moment his new thing is jumping on the bed and eating the duvet cover! When I see him doing this, I tell him to get down but most of the time he won't do it, so I have to lift him down, and once he is down on the floor, he turns around and snaps at me. He caught my hand a few times and cut it - very frustrating.

DBCyc

Graceland wrote: »

At the moment his new thing is jumping on the bed and eating the duvet cover! When I see him doing this, I tell him to get down but most of the time he won't do it, so I have to lift him down, and once he is down on the floor, he turns around and snaps at me. He caught my hand a few times and cut it - very frustrating.

That is frustrating alright. I found with my three dogs when they were pups is that the calmer and firmer my temperament was when correcting them, they quicker they would do what they were told (well some of the time anyway!).

I used to give out loads to my first dog when he was misbehaving and he would ignore it. The more frustrated I got, the less he would listen!

When you try and correct your dog, are you wound up/frustrated (its very easy to get wound up!)? If so, try being calm and firm and point down at the ground, click your fingers and say "NO!"

If you are acting calm when you correct him, just persevere...he will grow out of this mischievous behaviour.

Graceland

DBCyc wrote: »

When you try and correct your dog, are you wound up/frustrated (its very easy to get wound up!)? If so, try being calm and firm and point down at the ground, click your fingers and say "NO!"

I usually start off calm and tell him to get down, but he just keeps staring at me, or carrying on with what he is doing and ignoring me - then I get wound up, lol.
Sometimes it is hard to know what to do with him. I'd like him to get out of this behaviour. I'll try to be more calm.

The Sweeper

Try to make sure you're being very firm and not 'speaking' to the dog.

There should be just one or two words you're using - either just 'NO' or 'GET DOWN'. Deliver it in firm parade-ground voice from the start, and simultaneously accompany it with your moving the dog - so 'get down' while you put him on the ground off whatever he's on.

After the first few demonstrations, try just the speech - 'get down' - and if he doesn't budge go to take him off the bed. At that age, he'll be playing with you so he'll have a pretty good idea of what you're telling him to do, but he wants to test you so he may not budge. (If he gallops off when you start to approach him you know he understands the command now.)

Also buy a bag of treats - liver treats are gooood - at the supermarket and keep them in your pocket, and when he does what he's told, reward him.

Just never fall into the trap of having a conversation with your dog. ("Rover! Oh my God you're on the duvet AGAIN!! GET DOWN FROM THERE!! Get down this INSTANT! I WILL SHOOT YOU!!! Get off that bed! You're such a naughty dog! Get down!")

DBCyc

Graceland wrote: »

I usually start off calm and tell him to get down, but he just keeps staring at me, or carrying on with what he is doing and ignoring me - then I get wound up, lol.
Sometimes it is hard to know what to do with him. I'd like him to get out of this behaviour. I'll try to be more calm.

Yeah its easier said than done to stay calm in some situations! Also it depends on the dog I suppose...our stubborn pug will try his best to ignore any correction, but our staffy will stop instantly as she is desperate to please.

DBCyc

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

when he does what he's told, reward him...Just never fall into the trap of having a conversation with your dog.

+1

Graceland

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

Try to make sure you're being very firm and not 'speaking' to the dog.

There should be just one or two words you're using - either just 'NO' or 'GET DOWN'. Deliver it in firm parade-ground voice from the start, and simultaneously accompany it with your moving the dog - so 'get down' while you put him on the ground off whatever he's on.

After the first few demonstrations, try just the speech - 'get down' - and if he doesn't budge go to take him off the bed. At that age, he'll be playing with you so he'll have a pretty good idea of what you're telling him to do, but he wants to test you so he may not budge. (If he gallops off when you start to approach him you know he understands the command now.)

Also buy a bag of treats - liver treats are gooood - at the supermarket and keep them in your pocket, and when he does what he's told, reward him.

Just never fall into the trap of having a conversation with your dog. ("Rover! Oh my God you're on the duvet AGAIN!! GET DOWN FROM THERE!! Get down this INSTANT! I WILL SHOOT YOU!!! Get off that bed! You're such a naughty dog! Get down!")

Thanks for your help. I'm going to have to be firmer with him. I'll do what you said - about saying NO, or GET DOWN.
The only problem I have is when I actually lift him from the bed to the floor, most of the time he will snap as soon as he is on the floor. Is there any easy way around this?
I'll get some treats as well. Maybe this will encourage him to do what he is told, lol. At the moment he is asleep, he looks like an angel, but he is far from one when awake, lol.
Thanks again.

Graceland

DBCyc wrote: »

Yeah its easier said than done to stay calm in some situations! Also it depends on the dog I suppose...our stubborn pug will try his best to ignore any correction, but our staffy will stop instantly as she is desperate to please.

He is a lab/collie X. As far as I know they usually have a good temperment. I know it is probably only his age, but he really can drive you crazy at times.

Irishcrx

I know how you feel, my 3 month old Huskie is in this stage and it can be very frustrating , Problem is he doesn't listen when being told by my gf or anyone else, he will listen to me most of the time but not always. Best thing is be persistent he is very snappy when he doesn't get his way and has bitten me already, when he does this what I do is get a hold of his mouth and hold it closed for about 20 seconds, he hates this but keep it up it will stop the biting.

Milkey Bar Kid

I havw a westie that 1 year old and shes still a brat

Branoic

Our 6 month old GSD is a cheeky nightmare at the moment! She's chewed the skirting, the legs of chairs, the actual wall itself, the rubber seal on the washing machine (causing it to leak all over the place) and more. She somehow managed to get my wife's pack of Vivioptimal supplements (dosage 1 tablet a day for human adults) and ate 12 of them prompting a call to the vet. She's also got hold of the oil supplement we put in her food for her coat (2 teaspoons a day), covered the kitchen floor in it and then licked it all up. She's broken ornaments and jars and chewed handles off sweeping brushes and ran through the garden trailing toilet rolls more than once. When you tell her NO she sits and barks at you, or runs circles around the table, or grabs a squeeky ball and then tackles your legs with her two front legs.

Most of this in the last couple of weeks :rolleyes:

Blueprint

It sounds like all your dogs are slightly hyper at the moment. My fellow was like that when he was that age too and I found that he got worse if he hadn't had enough exercise or I took him out to later than usual. Some mental stimulation in the form of training or even teaching them tricks should help a lot.

Another thing I found very helpful was applying the Nothing In Life Is Free idea of making him work for everything he got so he knew that I was the boss.
http://www.sspca.org/Dogs/TANSTAAFL.html

My guy has grown up into a very good dog indeed, so there is hope!

Graceland

Irishcrx wrote: »

I know how you feel, my 3 month old Huskie is in this stage and it can be very frustrating , Problem is he doesn't listen when being told by my gf or anyone else, he will listen to me most of the time but not always. Best thing is be persistent he is very snappy when he doesn't get his way and has bitten me already, when he does this what I do is get a hold of his mouth and hold it closed for about 20 seconds, he hates this but keep it up it will stop the biting.

This is exactly the way my pup is acting. He is snappy when he doesn't get his own way. The only thing in his defense is that he is quite good some of the time, so this fills me with hope that he will be ok when he is older.
As I said before, his latest thing is jumping on the bed and eating the duvet cover. I've told him to get down (or NO) and when he does (eventually), I give him a treat - like I was advised to do. It seems to help a bit anyway, so at least it is a start.
I know your dog is only 3 months. When mine was this age, he wouldn't really do anything at all. It was only when he got to the 4 month stage, this is when I could start to train him properly - like sit, stay etc. He just didn't want to know anything at 3 months.

Graceland

Milkey Bar Kid wrote: »

I havw a westie that 1 year old and shes still a brat

I hope mine isn't a brat up till he's one - I'm bad enough now, lol.

Graceland

Branoic wrote: »

Our 6 month old GSD is a cheeky nightmare at the moment! She's chewed the skirting, the legs of chairs, the actual wall itself, the rubber seal on the washing machine (causing it to leak all over the place) and more. She somehow managed to get my wife's pack of Vivioptimal supplements (dosage 1 tablet a day for human adults) and ate 12 of them prompting a call to the vet. She's also got hold of the oil supplement we put in her food for her coat (2 teaspoons a day), covered the kitchen floor in it and then licked it all up. She's broken ornaments and jars and chewed handles off sweeping brushes and ran through the garden trailing toilet rolls more than once. When you tell her NO she sits and barks at you, or runs circles around the table, or grabs a squeeky ball and then tackles your legs with her two front legs.

Most of this in the last couple of weeks :rolleyes:

That's sounds worse than mine, lol. Mine was eating a few things at the beginning, like pulling wallpaper off, eating legs of tables, but in all fairness to him, this didn't last very long. Your one sounds like a nightmare at the moment, lol.

Graceland

Blueprint wrote: »

It sounds like all your dogs are slightly hyper at the moment. My fellow was like that when he was that age too and I found that he got worse if he hadn't had enough exercise or I took him out to later than usual. Some mental stimulation in the form of training or even teaching them tricks should help a lot.

Another thing I found very helpful was applying the Nothing In Life Is Free idea of making him work for everything he got so he knew that I was the boss.
http://www.sspca.org/Dogs/TANSTAAFL.html

My guy has grown up into a very good dog indeed, so there is hope!

Thanks for this link. I'll have a good read of it.

countesshouse

My GS was the same at that age but they do stop chewing and wrecking things,he stopped when he was around 2 years he is now 5 but is still as playful as ever.
I have a problem with my other little tearaway called 'Holly' she is a mix between a terrier and a corgi (all out of portion but lovable) she loves the GS but today was the most stressful day,she is a 3 year old. both dogs who love each other,play and sleep together but today she decided she wanted to escape and the minx ate through some garden fencing and off up the back field(no problem there but then she decided to venture into the next door neighbors garden as theirs is open hedging and landed in their kitchen,received a frantic phone call demanding me to fence her in (the garden is fenced in) but their back garden is not.She is placid but a minx we call her Deputy Dog( remember the carton years ago on TV) that is what she looks like,she is neutered but how can i now stop her from getting out from the back garden??? She is now in the second part of the garden where she cannot escape and the GS can still see her but he keeps whining as he wants to play with her but cannot get into her.My other half added fencing today where she got out but she still managed to escape the second time.Any ideas would be grateful as i do not want to upset the next door neighbor again and 'Holly' herself is not a biter

Sigma Force

Op I think your pup may need some puppy classes pronto ok lots of pups go through a chewy stage etc. but should not become aggressive over time if they are then it's something you are doing wrong and usually shouting doesn't solve the problems so some puppy classes where they use more subtle ways would help you a lot.

Graceland

Guineapigrescue wrote: »

Op I think your pup may need some puppy classes pronto ok lots of pups go through a chewy stage etc. but should not become aggressive over time if they are then it's something you are doing wrong and usually shouting doesn't solve the problems so some puppy classes where they use more subtle ways would help you a lot.

Thanks for your reply. I'm more calm when I tell him off and it seems to be working better. I give him a treat when he behaves. I just think it will take time and patience. Hopefully it will work out, if not, I will consider puppy classes.

ahaaha

our 5 month fella is unreal cheeky these days - runs away when we are trying to get stuff out of his mouth (he is a hover!) and barks when we stop him doing something like jump on the sofa or chase after the mop while im cleaning. sucha pup!
he also nips my ankle and leg for attention when he is being bold and i try my best to ignore him but its so hard!!
a quick flash of a rolled up newspaper seems to deter him most times but im prayin he grows out of it... and soon!

Graceland

ahaaha wrote: »

our 5 month fella is unreal cheeky these days - runs away when we are trying to get stuff out of his mouth (he is a hover!) and barks when we stop him doing something like jump on the sofa or chase after the mop while im cleaning. sucha pup!
he also nips my ankle and leg for attention when he is being bold and i try my best to ignore him but its so hard!!
a quick flash of a rolled up newspaper seems to deter him most times but im prayin he grows out of it... and soon!

I was advised to use the rolled up newspaper from someone at work but I found he got more aggressive, so I had to stop using it in the end. At least it seems to work for you most of the time, which is great.
The way your described your pup - running away when you are trying to get stuff out of his mouth - barks when you try to stop him doing something - chases after mop while you are cleaning. This is exactly the way mine was behaving as well, but he is much better at certain things now.
He has another bad habit which I'm trying to get him out of - when I'm eating, he tries to jump up to the table, so naturally I tell him off for this, and then he starts barking at me. If he does this too much, I put him in his bed until I'm finished eating. I'm going to do this until he gets the point.
I was reading up on pups on the internet and there is different stages of behaviour. Unfortunately mine is at the brat stage, lol

homer simpson

I know the feeling my lab (just put his pic in the pic thread) is about 9 months now was a nightmare, untill about 2months ago, he was chewing everything destroyed his kennell, bowls, dug up the stones in the back street(2inch stones) and general running around like a lunitic trying to hump people and things espesially my quilt lol. got him netured, about 2 weeks later most of it stoped,not all cos he wouldn't be a lab if he did, ha ha.

Graceland

homer_simpson wrote: »

I know the feeling my lab (just put his pic in the pic thread) is about 9 months now was a nightmare, untill about 2months ago, he was chewing everything destroyed his kennell, bowls, dug up the stones in the back street(2inch stones) and general running around like a lunitic trying to hump people and things espesially my quilt lol. got him netured, about 2 weeks later most of it stoped,not all cos he wouldn't be a lab if he did, ha ha.

I think they are all the same at a certain age - some do different things than others. I think it is just a matter of having a bit of patience until they get bigger. I'll just have to persevere a bit more, lol.

Bluefrog

OP, first, I feel your pain - anyone who has raised a pup will have some tale of destruction - amazing what a 3 month old boxer pup can do to a bluetooth headset in 30 seconds of no supervision.

Anyway, I have a suggestion on the bed thing, I may be missing something but it seems to me that if you don't want your pup on your bed eating the duvet and if getting him/her off is difficult for you then why let that situation arise in the first place? Remove the pup's access to the bed, keep the bedroom door closed or limit where the pup can go until it has gained some idea of what is acceptable to chew and what isn't. Training the pup to learn the meaning of 'no' in more controllable situations first removes the chance of the pup getting the idea that 'no' is not absolute.

I would agree with GPR on this - puppy classes are the way to go. I think 99% of the frustration owners experience comes not from the dog's behaviour but rather from not having effective techniques to deal with it. If you develop your ability to pre-empt situations and/or have set 'procedures' to follow for unruly situations then things won't seem so chaotic and escalate, you will have a less stressful time with your pup and enjoy this short period in his/her life more.

Graceland

Bluefrog wrote: »

Anyway, I have a suggestion on the bed thing, I may be missing something but it seems to me that if you don't want your pup on your bed eating the duvet and if getting him/her off is difficult for you then why let that situation arise in the first place? Remove the pup's access to the bed, keep the bedroom door closed or limit where the pup can go until it has gained some idea of what is acceptable to chew and what isn't. Training the pup to learn the meaning of 'no' in more controllable situations first removes the chance of the pup getting the idea that 'no' is not absolute.

I have started to keep the bedroom door shut most of the time. I only leave it open while I'm in it. He does know that he's not supposed to go on the bed - I can tell by the way he acts that he does actually know this. But he just gets into one of those giddy moods and he jumps on the bed.
He is actually a bit better than what he was. At the beginning, I had a lot of trouble getting him off the bed, but he is getting down quicker now.
I understand why you said to keep the bedroom door closed all the time, but in a way, I want to train him to be allowed into the bedroom and not jump on the bed. It will probably take a bit of time.
He is really cute but there is a little devil in him, lol

kildara

OP, I strongly agree with Guineapigrescue and Bluefrog who have suggested bringing the dog to puppy class / obedience class. Exposure to other dogs at his age will be invaluable to the both of you.

Graceland wrote: »

I do try to put manners on him, but he doesn't always like this and can get aggressive with me, snapping and biting.

Graceland wrote: »

once he is down on the floor, he turns around and snaps at me. He caught my hand a few times and cut it - very frustrating.

You need to address this now. Your dog is being dominant. His biting is "frustrating" now; imagine what it will be like when he is fully grown and he takes a dislike to taking commands from you. Or if a child is on the end of his snapping.

Graceland wrote: »

I usually start off calm and tell him to get down, but he just keeps staring at me

Him staring at you is another example of dominance. He will stare you down until you look away - then he wins.

Graceland wrote: »

I ignore him when he is like this. But he just keeps doing it again and again.

You must try to not ignore this bad behaviour. By you ignoring it he won't see what they problem is and so will continue to challenge you.



We have had skirting boards destroyed, wallpaper ripped, phone chargers annihilated, GHD’s obliterated, and last weekend the Sky cable was eaten… You get used to the destruction!

It does get easier once they get past the puppy chewing stage. Ours was just past it when we got another – she showed us what a power-chewer can do to household goods!


But for your own sake, and safety, you need to address his dominance issues right now, so that they wont be a problem in the future.


Are you going to get him neutered?

Bluefrog

Sounds like you're making progress - great. For me, a lot of it was pre-empting things and shutting him down before it got to the point where there would be conflict. In the future, I'm going to be dealing with a dog who is potentially going to be 70 - 80 lbs so I figured it was better to start as I meant to go on but a bratty smaller dog can be a handfull too

Graceland wrote: »

I understand why you said to keep the bedroom door closed all the time, but in a way, I want to train him to be allowed into the bedroom and not jump on the bed.

How about making him stay outside the bedroom door when you are in there - make the threshold of the door the line which he can't cross without your invitation. I do that kind of thing a lot with my two, for instance, I make them do a 'stay' inside the kitchen door when I'm in the hall getting ready to take them out They have to sit to get their leads on before we go out and off when we get back and also to eat so through the normal activities of the day I am constantly reinforcing with them that good behaviour gets them what they want.

The point I'm trying to get accross is that until your 'no' is taken as an absolute for more controllable situations, its best not to give him room to manouvre. When he fully grasps that 'no' stands firm in controlled situations, he is much less likely to push at times when he could get away with it - if he gets away with something you have said no to, it weakens the power of the 'no'. You can pretty easily guard the door and he gets to practice his stay - it can drive them crazy but in a perverse way they seem to love the game. Dogs seem to get the border idea pretty instinctively - I have even noticed that my two obey the demarkation of the white line seperating the regular pavement from the bike path.

When you finally let him in the room he's going to be so happy to be in there that it will often be enough to keep him focussed on you and not the joys of ripping the duvet to shreds. If you think he's going to hit the bed, shut it down by putting him back beyond the border.

The nice side effect of this kind of thing is that it is mental exercise for him which will tire him almost as much as exercise so he'll have less energy and be less inclined to be snappy. It also reinforces that you are the boss and you are much less likely to run into the domminance issues that Kildara mentioned. He's still a very young pup and I think this is more to do with testing limits than an attempt to be dominant.

Don't let him play you with his cuteness - there will be just as much pleasure in seeing the work you put into him bring him to a point where he is calm and obedient down the line.

Finally I should say that my fella had days where he seemed to regress out of the blue but it would only be for a day or even a few hours - stay consistent and those off times fade away.

Optimus485

Watch Cesar Milan (The Dog Whisperer), and get cuddly toys for him to munch on.

Graceland

kildara wrote: »

Are you going to get him neutered?

Thanks for your reply, it was interesting what you had to say.
Yes I will be getting him neutered, probably when he is around 9 months. I think this is supposed to make them calmer.

Graceland

Optimus485 wrote: »

Watch Cesar Milan (The Dog Whisperer), and get cuddly toys for him to munch on.

He has plenty of toys to chew on. He loves the squeaky ones the best.

Graceland

Bluefrog wrote: »

How about making him stay outside the bedroom door when you are in there - make the threshold of the door the line which he can't cross without your invitation. I do that kind of thing a lot with my two, for instance, I make them do a 'stay' inside the kitchen door when I'm in the hall getting ready to take them out They have to sit to get their leads on before we go out and off when we get back and also to eat so through the normal activities of the day I am constantly reinforcing with them that good behaviour gets them what they want.

Thanks for your reply. I'm going to do what you said about making him stay outside the bedroom door and only letting him come in when I say so. I'll see how this goes.
Another thing which I have been doing with him - which seems to be working - he had a very bad habit of jumping up at the table when I'm eating and when I would give out to him, he would get a bit snappy, but he would just jump back up again. Well my new thing with him for this is - when he jumps up and I give out to him, if he doesn't do what he is told, I just put him in his bed and leave him there for a while. It's a crate, so he can't get out of it. I've been doing this for the past few times and he is definetly getting better. When he does jump up at the table and I tell him to get down, he will get down now. He might just jump up another time, but that is it. I can see the difference in him. He knows if he keeps jumping, that he will be put back in bed.

I'll let you know how I get on with keeping him outside the bedroom door. He's clever enough for the size of him. He does understand - he just doesn't want to do it, lol.

Bluefrog

Well they're cetainly clever enough to experiment which is why you need to be consistent in the response. When the pup first came he tried the table thing with us and I basically played mother dog and pushed him back from the table - back to the border idea again I basically set up an imaginary ring around it, if he came inside that ring he got pushed back even before he got to the table, he gave up trying within a couple of days. Same thing applies to the dishwasher, sweeping brush, laundry basket, vacumn cleaner etc. The all have a no-pup zone

Also on the table thing - watch your guests, some will fall for his handsome good looks and try to feed him from there undoing all your good work so if he's out and about when people are there to eat, just mention it to them.

Its a lot of fun figuring out ways to get them to do what you need them to

Graceland

Bluefrog wrote: »

Also on the table thing - watch your guests, some will fall for his handsome good looks and try to feed him from there undoing all your good work so if he's out and about when people are there to eat, just mention it to them.

It was my fault at the beginning because I used to give him bits and pieces from the table - I felt sorry for him when he looked at me with those big pup eyes, lol. Now he thinks it's his right to get whatever is on the table.
But as I said before, he is a lot better at this now.

As I write this bit now, he is being made to sit outside the bedroom and wait for my command to come in - can't help laughing in silence at the look of him, but I have to do it for all our sakes, lol.

Bluefrog

Well its great that you can already type and get on with what you need to do while he waits - a few weeks of that and I am sure you will see a decrease in the snappiness as he learns his place and you become less stressed and frustrated.

My pup had a bit of a brat incident today while I was having a sandwich he stuck his big jowly head up on the table, big floppy lips splayed out but a no sent him packing.

Let us know how he gets on. As someone else said on the thread, don't forget to work on his socialisation with other dogs too.

Graceland

Bluefrog wrote: »

Let us know how he gets on. As someone else said on the thread, don't forget to work on his socialisation with other dogs too.

I take him for a walk everyday and meet dogs each time. He loves to see them and puts noses together with them, so I think this will be a help to him in his socialisation.