Lyle McDonald Seminar

Transform

I attended the Lyle seminar last sunday and the following are some of the points i thought readers would like to hear (lot of other interesting stuff but i will keep it brief)

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

1. Protein - required for sooo many processes in the body and the best source depends on what your doing and when your having it i.e. after training versus last thing at night.

2. Carbs - eat too many and you burn less fat and helps store fat more easily.

3. 0mega 3 - control inflammation, ALA primary role is to convert to O3.

4. Most Female athletes restrict red meat and thus have problems with zinc and iron deficiency.

5. Creatine - a MUST supplement for all athletes but not for the average joe who thinks a few biceps curls and bench presses is a workout. 3-5g per day, no loading is necessary and you do not need to come off it. 30% of people do not respond to it.

6. Beta alanine - helps buffer LA. Works better with creatine. 400-800mg/day for 30days minimum.

7. Caffeine - it works. 200-300mg 30mins to hour before workout. Works even better with taurine.

8. drink more water- you must have 5 clear urinations per day.

9. The food you eat after your workout is more important that pre and during the workout. Protein is ideal but protein and carbs is better.

Overall it was very well presented (though a little long) and it was nice to meet a guy who has been lecturing on nutrition for a very long time. Oh and Will (heffernan - at st marys rugby club) was kind enough to put on the coffee and buns (of course i did not particiapte in the bun eating being the saint that i am, brought my trusty flapjacks). Had a good workout in Wills place also.

There were other parts on fat loss and building muscle but nothing that are not covered in his books.

The basics are what i should have learned when i was a teenager starting out training - oh the youth is wasted on the young.

BossArky

Transform wrote: »

5. Creatine - a MUST supplement for all athletes but not for the average joe who thinks a few biceps curls and bench presses is a workout. 3-5g per day, no loading is necessary and you do not need to come off it. 30% of people do not respond to it.

Does this mean that the 30% do not respond to creatine found in both natural foodstuff and creatine supplements, or just the supplements?

Roper

I believe it's just the supplement though I'm open to correction.

Transform

just the supplement - the amounts found in food is very samll compared to 5g per day after workouts

hooplah

Thanks for posting this up Transform.

Transform wrote: »

9. The food you eat after your workout is more important that pre and during the workout. Protein is ideal but protein and carbs is better.

Anything on the ratio that should be taken?

Transform

depends on your weight and your goals/session i.e. weight loss, finished an aerobic session, weights session etc

basically if you are looking to drop weight then take in a some carbs and more protein, for weight gain just eat like a horse.

For stength sessions - protein 0.3-0.5g/kg body weight - and carbs
For endurance sessions - protein 0.15-0.35g/kg body weight - and MORE carbs because your burning up the calories.

rocky

7. Caffeine - it works. 200-300mg 30mins to hour before workout. Works even better with taurine.

Can you expand on this a little what is it supposed to do, give more energy for a workout? Does redbull not contain caffeine and taurine ?

thanks

kumate_champ07

Transform wrote: »

just the supplement - the amounts found in food is very samll compared to 5g per day after workouts

our body makes its own creatine, how do u think beef/cows got creatine? its not found in grass!

its made from 3diff amino acids, cant recall the exact ones, lecuine,arginine and another 1 i think.

im taking a month off from the stuff, the reason why is because the body stops making its own creatine if you keep taking it as a supplement. i reckon its bad in the long run if u dont come off it for a while

kumate_champ07

rocky wrote: »

Can you expand on this a little what is it supposed to do, give more energy for a workout? Does redbull not contain caffeine and taurine ?

thanks

the taurine in redbull does nothing. u can buy it in powdered form, people usualy take 5g pre + post workout. theres only a few 100mg in redbull


caffeine doesnt give u energy, it just tells your body youre not tired.

Roper

Yeah Transform you idiot. Listen to that man our body makes it's own creatine.

How do you think cows shave seconds off their 100m times? Pfft.

I'm going to leave this one now and see what it turns into by tomorrow. By the way Dominic sorry to have missed you at the seminar I was obliged to be elsewhere.

kumate_champ07

Roper wrote: »

Yeah Transform you idiot. Listen to that man our body makes it's own creatine.

How do you think cows shave seconds off their 100m times? Pfft.

I'm going to leave this one now and see what it turns into by tomorrow. By the way Dominic sorry to have missed you at the seminar I was obliged to be elsewhere.

"The body's pool of creatine can be replenished either from food (or supplements) or through synthesis from precursor amino acids. Dietary sources include beef, tuna, cod, salmon, herring, and pork [2]. The normal dietary intake of creatine is 1-2 g/day, although vegetarians may consume less [3,4]. Dietary creatine is absorbed from the intestines into the bloodstream. If the dietary supply is limited, creatine can be synthesized from the body stores of the amino acids glycine, arginine, and methionine. The kidneys use glycine and arginine to make guanidinoacetate, which the liver methylates to form creatine [1], which is transported to the muscle cells for storage. It is also stored in the kidneys, sperm cells, and brain tissue "

References

1)Murray RK and others. Harper's Biochemistry, 24th Edition. Stamford, CT: Appleton & Lange, 1996.
2)Sahelian R, Tutle D. Creatine: Nature's Muscle Builder. Garden City, NY: Avery Publishing Group, 1997.
3)Toler S. Creatine is an ergogen for anaerobic exercise. Nutrition Reviews 55:21-25, 1997.
4)Maughan R. Creatine supplementation and exercise performance. International Journal of Sport Nutrition 5:94-101, 1995.

and from wiki: "In humans, about half of the daily creatine is biosynthesized from three different amino acids - arginine, glycine, and methionine. The rest is taken in by alimentary sources. Ninety-five percent of creatine is later stored in the skeletal muscles."

do u need more references?

floggg

Transform wrote: »

8. drink more water- you must have 5 clear urinations per day.

In that case i must be going overboard. I would have knocked 5 clear ones out by lunch time. Seriously, ever since i started this gym and fitness thing, i piss like the proverbial race horse. I wake up every single morning around 4-6 o clock for a piss, even if i don't actually drink that much water before bed!

slicus ricus

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

im taking a month off from the stuff, the reason why is because the body stops making its own creatine if you keep taking it as a supplement. i reckon its bad in the long run if u dont come off it for a while

There's no proof that the body stops making its own creatine if you keep taking it. With steroids, it has been proven that artificial hormones inhibit natural production, which is why cycling and PCT is necessary. There is no evidence to show creatine works the same way and that creatine cycling is more effective than prolonged supplementation.

Having said all that, I will be taking a few weeks off creatine myself starting next week. This is more from the perspective of seeing whether the supplement is more effective when I go back on it due to my body not being used to it anymore - I guess you could call it the shock factor.

kumate_champ07

slicus ricus wrote: »

There's no proof that the body stops making its own creatine if you keep taking it. With steroids, it has been proven that artificial hormones inhibit natural production, which is why cycling and PCT is necessary. There is no evidence to show creatine works the same way and that creatine cycling is more effective than prolonged supplementation.

Having said all that, I will be taking a few weeks off creatine myself starting next week. This is more from the perspective of seeing whether the supplement is more effective when I go back on it due to my body not being used to it anymore - I guess you could call it the shock factor.

i worded it wrong, too tired to look up the correct description of what happens.
maybe ill have a better answer for u 2moro

kumate_champ07

it involves receptors and sh1t

cardio,shoot me

Roper wrote: »

How do you think cows shave seconds off their 100m times? Pfft.

jesus chr!st, half the time this forum is like stand up comedy, almost fell out of my chair readin this

Transform

man KUMATE in a few posts your jumping in two feet first then doing over long explainations.

Creatine - yes you can make it and get it from foods but supplementing gives farrrr better effects purely from a dosage point.

You again do not need to come off it but people do as they finish a tub, might not get it for a week or two and start back again. The main thing is you do not need to load.

Caffeine - dosage i already put up and it works on a number of mechanisms - neural, energetic etc

The Journal of the international society of sports nutrition (THE Athority on nutrition) have published a few papers on both creatine and caffeine - all showing positive effects.

Overall, what the heck is the over interest in two supplements that wont have as big an effect as proper post and pre workout nutrition???? Get the basics right guys and girls.

kumate_champ07

Transform wrote: »

man KUMATE in a few posts your jumping in two feet first then doing over long explainations.

Creatine - yes you can make it and get it from foods but supplementing gives farrrr better effects purely from a dosage point.

You again do not need to come off it but people do as they finish a tub, might not get it for a week or two and start back again. The main thing is you do not need to load.

Caffeine - dosage i already put up and it works on a number of mechanisms - neural, energetic etc

The Journal of the international society of sports nutrition (THE Athority on nutrition) have published a few papers on both creatine and caffeine - all showing positive effects.

Overall, what the heck is the over interest in two supplements that wont have as big an effect as proper post and pre workout nutrition???? Get the basics right guys and girls.

i offer long explanations if nobody believes what i say.

BobbyOLeary

it involves receptors and sh1t

Class. Just class. When I get asked a question at my thesis presentation I'm busting that out.

"So Mr. O'Leary, how do you explain the transgenic mice having enlarged livers?"

"It involves receptors and sh1t"

Thanks for that, that made my day.

Colm_OReilly

Man I wish I got in on this thread earlier, seems fun.

I don't know much about Lyle but he comes highly respected. Thanks for the write-up Transform.

amazingemmet

Is lyle still fat?

BobbyOLeary

Is lyle still fat?

Yeah. His body stopped producing creatine years back....

Patto

Transform, man I am impressed.

Great post.

Lyle has been quoted as the most plagarised man on the internet. A number of supplements that have come on the market in recent years have been heavily influenced by Lyle's books.

The Beta Alanine dosage seems very low at less than 1g a day. It says to take 3-5g a day on the tub. Did he give any explanation for this one?

What dosage of Taurine did Lyle recommend?

spiral

I believe he said to take Tyrosine not Taurine with the caffeine and a simple sugar. I think he mentioned people taking about 3g up to 30mins before training but maybe to start with a gram and see how it goes .

Transform

your absolutely right - wrote that quick review too bloody quickly.

Tyrosine instead of any time i wrote taurine - sorry. Cant remember dosages.

Patto - i sould have written 400-600kg 4 times per day for 30days minimum.

In actual fact Lyle is a very skinnny guy and look very much like a runner/cyclist who is well into his nutrition.

Finally, Kumate - just because you read a few books and can cut and paste from other websites does not make you an expert.

The talent lies in sifting through the info, seperating the wheat from the chaff, applying it to clients you work with DAILY and THEN making your conclusions.

Lyle was good however i did feel he was slightly left behind with more recent research from varying fields. However his books are second to none for those looking for the perfect approach to nutrition.

kumate_champ07

Transform wrote: »

your absolutely right - wrote that quick review too bloody quickly.

Tyrosine instead of any time i wrote taurine - sorry. Cant remember dosages.

Patto - i sould have written 400-600kg 4 times per day for 30days minimum.

In actual fact Lyle is a very skinnny guy and look very much like a runner/cyclist who is well into his nutrition.

Finally, Kumate - just because you read a few books and can cut and paste from other websites does not make you an expert.

The talent lies in sifting through the info, seperating the wheat from the chaff, applying it to clients you work with DAILY and THEN making your conclusions.

Lyle was good however i did feel he was slightly left behind with more recent research from varying fields. However his books are second to none for those looking for the perfect approach to nutrition.

im no expert but 400-600kg 4 times a day might cause a little stomach upset

papajimsmooth

Has anyone here tried the ketogenic diet that lyle wrote a book on. Im just wondering if it is suitable for a person who studies alot due to the switch from glucose to ketones in the brain.

FunkZ

papajimsmooth wrote: »

Has anyone here tried the ketogenic diet that lyle wrote a book on. Im just wondering if it is suitable for a person who studies alot due to the switch from glucose to ketones in the brain.

I have.

I dunno but I've been on it for the last four days and I have exams in a month.

I'm also typing this on a treadmill, awkward!!

papajimsmooth

How is your body reacting, do you feel more energetic or do you notice any changes?

FunkZ

Last time I kept to it for about 6 weeks if I remember correctly.

I was hardly ever EVER hungry! Even when only eating like 2200 kCals a day.
I remember my benching got a good bit stronger fairly quickly.
Can't remember about the squats and deads.
Didn't do much cardio but I was able to handle it when I did.
Todays my fourth day and I've been doing an hour LIT running most days, yesterday I ran 8.4km in an hour, today it was 7.06km but I don't feel tired having just finished and reckon I could run another 7 at the same speed.

Last time the fat fall off pretty quickly, and that was with feck all cardio. This time I'll be doing it every day. I remeber last time my body shaped up really nicely, even though I was probably 15%BF or over I looked good and had a lot of confidence with my top off (though I always do anyway)!

Any really specific questions and I'll see what I can do.

Eileen who posts here has been on it for a few years, she'd be good to ask.

Theresalwaysone

FunkZ wrote: »

Last time I kept to it for about 6 weeks if I remember correctly.

I was hardly ever EVER hungry! Even when only eating like 2200 kCals a day.
I remember my benching got a good bit stronger fairly quickly.
Can't remember about the squats and deads.
Didn't do much cardio but I was able to handle it when I did.
Todays my fourth day and I've been doing an hour LIT running most days, yesterday I ran 8.4km in an hour, today it was 7.06km but I don't feel tired having just finished and reckon I could run another 7 at the same speed.

Last time the fat fall off pretty quickly, and that was with feck all cardio. This time I'll be doing it every day. I remeber last time my body shaped up really nicely, even though I was probably 15%BF or over I looked good and had a lot of confidence with my top off (though I always do anyway)!

Any really specific questions and I'll see what I can do.

Eileen who posts here has been on it for a few years, she'd be good to ask.

Can you outline what you eat in a day? What are the basic principles of a Ketogenic diet?

FunkZ

I'm a very bland eater!

Breakfast is always an omelette with rashers and cheese.
I'd normally end up eating burgers twice in the day, with some cheese or mayonaisse.
Fish always comes into the equation, so smoked salmon and two eggs or a tin of tuna and 50g of flaxseed.
Chicken with a bit of cheese and flaxseed.

Lot of water.

And cause I'm not mad into the cooking veg I have a massive four litre pot of vegetable soup sitting in the fridge that I make. I only throw in 2 potatoes and loadsa other stuff and I'd have one or two bowls a day.

Nuts come into it when I manage to buy them

Any greens my mates cook I'll eat.

Steak when I can!! And whey protein depending on my kCal intake.

I'm sure there's a lot more that I can't think of.

Would ya like me to link ya to a few articles?

I'm off for some LIT and then to a BBQ!

FunkZ

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

What are the basic principles of a Ketogenic diet?

Don't take in any direct sources of carbohydrates. Just green veg really which is very little.

The carbs ya do take in should be filled with fiber. Broccoli, cauliflour etc

Eat high in protein and high in fats. No carbs (well no more than about 30g).

Have one day or meal a week where you eat carbs, try pasta, rice and oatmeal. This is to repair glycogen cells. It'll help you in the gym for the rest of the week.

When doing cardio do very light stuff, running as fast as ya can will burn ya out very quickly and leave ya like that.

Compak

Transform wrote: »

9. The food you eat after your workout is more important that pre and during the workout. .

I find that very questionable and have some research as well as basic biochemistry to show the opposite. However I will reserve professional judgement for the moment as will get to discuss it with experts in the area later in the year.

So just wondering if anyone has any research to back up this comment?

Thanks

rubadub

Transform wrote: »

Creatine ...30% of people do not respond to it.

What does this mean exactly? Do 30% see no improvement in performance. I am just wondering how they arrived at this figure. Or do they test your blood for increased creatine or something and 30% just cannot absorb it or something.

Transform

Compak wrote: »

I find that very questionable and have some research as well as basic biochemistry to show the opposite. However I will reserve professional judgement for the moment as will get to discuss it with experts in the area later in the year.

So just wondering if anyone has any research to back up this comment?

Thanks

sorry 400-600mg (obviously NOT kg).

Training is all about recovery- hence the primary importance of post workout nutrition. Heck why the hell do people take steroids - better recovery period!!

So is post workout nutrition important - not at all if your workout was a few biceps curls, triceps kickbacks and feck all intensity. but for those looking to get from zero to hero then hell yes it does. You do not get fitter/stronger in one session so as great as killing yourself in one session might be it wont matter a jot if you can't recover optimally for the next session.

Lyle basically said 30% just do not respond in the same way others do - i.e. increased strength, weight and recovery. I find i fall into the do not respond catagory but i find excellent results from other supplements.