Addiction is a choice

Gonzales

I tried to open a discussion recently on the subject without putting forward my opinions (apologies) & it was locked. So I'll try again.

I've recently read a book caleed "Addiction is a Choice" where the Author argues that the Addict is choosing to pursure his addiction (habit) rather than the commonly accepted Disease model where the Addict is helpless to resist the compulsion of his addiction i.e it is beyond his control.

The Author argued that to refer to Addiction to a disease is a fanciful & totally non scientific, & baseless name tag used to absolve the Addict of personal responsability & this attitude to Addiction as a disease is Borne from US lawsuits against Tobacco companies for damages suffered by Cigarette smokers who were "diseased".

Fact: Pathology does not allow addiction to be defined as a disease.

I have to say I was somewhat convinced by the book & I would like to hear other opinions on the matter.
This discussion is open to all addictions, not just drugs, alchohol, cigarettes.

Over to y'all...

seanybiker

Other, pls specify below.

I would normally call it an addiction when its something you dont want to do but cant stop so with me smoking is not an addiction, it is definately a choice. I like smoking and I dont have any plans on stopping.

Im addicted to drink. I dont want to stop, I just want to cut down but I cant. Then I suppose thats more of a choice cos its upto me to go to the pub. The shakes are not fun though. Lol.

AARRRGH

I think it depends on the person.

Some people are strong, some people are weak.

When you combine weakness with self-hatred or low self esteem you can nearly be sure the person won't be able to sort out their addictions on their own.

So I wouldn't really say it's a choice, but rather not having the strength to tackle your issues.

Personally I am 'addicted' to coffee. I have chosen to give it up in the past, and then I chose to go back on it. I remember very clearly making the choice to go back to my addiction.

Currently I am working up the strength to give it up again, and plan on maintaining the knowledge that I can't just have one.

Gonzales

Other, pls specify below.

Ok, so no one has subscribed to the disease model on here yet, I'm actually surprised at that, let's sit on this to see other take on the issue...

I've added a poll at the top for a snapshot of opinions.

Ickle Magoo

Other, pls specify below.

I don't think it's so black & white.

Addiction is only a choice in so far as how easy an addiction it is to break. If someone is addicted to caffeine & someone else is addicted to crack, it doesn't take a genius to work out that the level of will power/help/replacement therapy, etc required is going to vary somewhat.

I love coffee, I'm a bit of a caffeine dog myself, but my caffeine withdrawal & grumpy musings come 11am if I haven't had a mug are an absolute walk in the park compared to heroin addiction or chronic alcohol dependency & so on....

Gonzales

Other, pls specify below.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I don't think it's so black & white.

Addiction is only a choice in so far as how easy an addiction it is to break.

So a coffee addict has choices to quit, but a Junkie has no say in the matter?

Does the Junkie not also just need to choose to quit & take the appropriate action? Is it not black & white?

Choose to be an Addict - continue!
Choose to kick addiction - stop! by taking appropriate action.

seanybiker

Other, pls specify below.

Ya can choose to quit but its not that easy. Some people might want to choose to quit but just dont have the will power .

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

it depends on the drug how much choice there is involved, alcoholics can **** off if they think they have a disease though.

seanybiker

Other, pls specify below.

Captain Mords Spiced Bum wrote: »

it depends on the drug how much choice there is involved, alcoholics can **** off if they think they have a disease though.

I wouldnt call alcoholics a disease meself. Im not diseased lol.

ynotdu

Other, pls specify below.

Gonzales wrote: »

I tried to open a discussion recently on the subject without putting forward my opinions (apologies) & it was locked. So I'll try again.

I've recently read a book caleed "Addiction is a Choice" where the Author argues that the Addict is choosing to pursure his addiction (habit) rather than the commonly accepted Disease model where the Addict is helpless to resist the compulsion of his addiction i.e it is beyond his control.

The Author argued that to refer to Addiction to a disease is a fanciful & totally non scientific, & baseless name tag used to absolve the Addict of personal responsability & this attitude to Addiction as a disease is Borne from US lawsuits against Tobacco companies for damages suffered by Cigarette smokers who were "diseased".

Fact: Pathology does not allow addiction to be defined as a disease.

I have to say I was somewhat convinced by the book & I would like to hear other opinions on the matter.
This discussion is open to all addictions, not just drugs, alchohol, cigarettes.

Over to y'all...

Want to know when this thread updates via email alerts.
For the moment I am not going to vote as I am unsure.
good thread to start though

Ickle Magoo

Other, pls specify below.

Gonzales wrote: »

So a coffee addict has choices to quit, but a Junkie has no say in the matter?

Does the Junkie not also just need to choose to quit & take the appropriate action? Is it not black & white?

Choose to be an Addict - continue!
Choose to kick addiction - stop! by taking appropriate action.

It's not black and white because the cause & effect of addiction is different with different substances - not because the basic definition of "kick addiction" changes. Are you seriously trying to suggest that someone who misses a shot of Nicaraguan mocha latte of a morning is going to fight the same battle as someone who has a crack cocaine addiction?!

metaoblivia

Other, pls specify below.

I chose the third option. I don't think addiction is a disease so much as a personality type. Some people are more prone to developing addictions as a way to deal with or mask their problems rather than face them using other means. I think addicts get so caught up in the cycle they've created for themselves that many times they feel they don't have a choice. They're convinced that they're powerless and optionless and therefore that becomes their reality.
I believe that an addict can choose to break their habit; but it's not easy. It requires an honest desire to change, willpower, and usually outside help. Like I said, I believe it's more of a personality type than anything else, and changing who you are and how you operate can be sometimes be more difficult than curing a disease.

johnnyskeleton

It's not a disease - that word is only used to describe it by counseling services such as AA, NA etc, but if they find that it helps serious addicts to kick their habit, I'm more than happy for them to call it a disease with impunity.

That said, while it is not a disease, it is not just a choice either. Addiction can be a serious psychological (and in some cases physical) condition which can't be dealt with simply by telling a person to choose not to be an addict anymore.

Obviously the reason for the book addiction is a choice is for people who are addicted but have not found help via the traditional deal with your disease counseling, and he is trying to instill a sense of will power in them. It's not really an academic point to be honest, it's just a way for him to sell his books. If it helps people kick their habits then great, but I doubt it is intended to redefine addiction as we know it.

Gonzales wrote: »

So a coffee addict has choices to quit, but a Junkie has no say in the matter?

Does the Junkie not also just need to choose to quit & take the appropriate action? Is it not black & white?

If you give up coffee you might suffer mild headaches for a few days. If you give up heroin you will experience a week to a month's painful withdrawal symptoms. If you give up crack, you will still crave it 20 years later. So there is a big difference between things like coffee, fizzy drinks etc and serious drugs.

Gonzales

Other, pls specify below.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

can't be dealt with simply by telling a person to choose not to be an addict anymore.

So there is a big difference between things like coffee, fizzy drinks etc and serious drugs.

The Author was not telling the person to choose not to be an addict, they need to make that choice themselves. Choices by defintion are voluntarily.

I appreciate the difference between Coffee & Heroin but the argument is that a Junkie/coffee addict still must choose to continue his habit - relatively easy choice or kick the habit - relatively difficult choice.

RedXIV

Other, pls specify below.

I do think addicition is a choice but I also agree that it has something to do with personality. For example, my OH has tried to give up smoking about 4 times since i met her 10 months ago, and never gotten past 2 days in contrast, my aunt who used to smoke was watching a documentry on tv saying nicotine was the most addictive substance in the world and simply looked at the cigeratte she was smoking and said "....no more" and that was 11 years ago, she doesn't even want one for nostalga. I'd like to think that if it's black and white then it's people with addictive personalities and those without but i do think everyone has a vice, just some are more destructive than others. For me, i find it hard to go more than 2 days without going online. thats my vice. relatively harmless compared to the effects of a chemical addiction

Queen-Mise

Other, pls specify below.

i am going to make one point here on alcoholics.
I have noticed 3 types: the classic genetic one - absolute disaster from first drink, prob in family background, no control at all.
The second one - the heavy/social, who for some reason crosses the line, be it stress, bereavement or the empty nest syndrome. These could have drank fine for years until some event tips them over.
The third type i have seen are the crossover addiction - coming off coke/heroin. Or getting addicted to a prescription medication and then crossing over.

There isnt one type of addiction/alcoholic. Choice isnt the same either for all.

Latchy

Addicts are too tied up in their habit to think clearly about choices, they do not have a disease.

Boards.ie ? I log in here most days but wouldn't say I have an addiction

What about sexual addiction ? Everybody will do it (sooner or later ) but when is enough ' enough ' ?

I think in the more serious addictions like alcohol cigarettes and hard drugs ,were the body as much as the mind has become dependent , then it can be hard for the individual . But addicts do have a choice as to getting help , to stop their addictions .It's just some are to weak minded to face up to making that choice .

AngryBadger

Addicts are too tied up in their habit to think clearly about choices, they do not have a disease.

Is addiction a chocie? Yes, based on that question it is, because if you choose to indulge in a substance that is considered addictive then you're making a choice. Regardless of what knowledge you may/may not have about any predisposition to addiction you may have for this substance in particular or any substances in general, you're deciding to indulge, and therefore you are making a choice.

Now if you're askign me whether stayingan addict, or breaking the addiction is a choice, well then I would also say yes. That doesn't mean it's an easy choice, that doesn't mean a real addict won't spend years trying to clean themselve sup and get their life in order, but ultimately you're making a choice, and regardless of whatever pressures exist you can't just wipe out the responsibilities associated with the decision to engage in the first palce, and to continue to engage thereafter.

So yeah, I think addicts are making a choice.

rantyface

Addicts have the ability to choose their addictions & whether to continue them.

Drugs that cause a release in dopamine (all the addictive ones) cause a fundamental rewiring of your brain. It can be seen in scans years after you stop taking the drug. It is irreversible and uncurable. The only successful approach to drug addiction to date is management.

I think you should all read some neuroscience books rather than rubbish pop psychology.

Gonzales

Other, pls specify below.

rantyface wrote: »

It is irreversible and uncurable. The only successful approach to drug addiction to date is management.

Ok, so you are on the disease model - good to have some other opinions here to open up the discussion.

I agree with your comment about addiction management, with one caveat, the addict has agreed to the addiction management. He has made the choice.

Zee Deveel

Other, pls specify below.

From my experience, I've seen addiction to be a lifestyle choice, an outlet, a trap and nothing more than a small character flaw.

Some people just don't feel part of 'mainstream society', whatever that is, and the world of drugs feels more natural to them than anything else they've known. And a lot of people live perfectly happy lives like that. Yes, they're addicted, but that's just their choice in life.

Others, become just trapped. Can't see the light, can't see any way out, can't see any alternative to where they are in the grips of addiction. Choice just doesn't even seem like a potential option. There is a certain point in addiction where it seems that the addict isn't in any sort of control at all, that their only drive is the addiction itself. At that point, I'm not sure that there really is any choice. Not without some big intervention or eye opener.

rantyface

Addicts have the ability to choose their addictions & whether to continue them.

Gonzales wrote: »

Ok, so you are on the disease model - good to have some other opinions here to open up the discussion.

I agree with your comment about addiction management, with one caveat, the addict has agreed to the addiction management. He has made the choice.

It is as much a disease as any other serious damage to the nervous system, or any other body system, induced by a chemical, mechanically, or genetically determined is. It is a critical change in the dopaminergic pathways and connections of the brain. An addict's brain is permanently changed and can't be fixed. Just because it is initially "self inflicted" does not make it less of a disease.

The fact that it it happens to affect the brain rather than a leg or an arm does not leave it open for airy fairy mystical magical emotional hypothetical pop psychology crap.

It is more difficult to make "choices" when the very organ you use to make choices is irreversibly damaged. It's not a simple test of will power like losing weight.

stovelid

I went for other because i think some addicts conform to the archetype: damaged, inner pain, parental neglect, etc, but I also think some people become addicted as a choice (or rather consequence) of personal recreation choices.

As someone who grew up in an area with widespread addiction, I'm quite ambivalent about the stock use of the former to explain all addictions, even addiction in so-called deprived backgrounds. That said, I'm not judgemental, and believe everybody should have a fair chance at rehab and help.

ChocolateSauce

Addicts have the ability to choose their addictions & whether to continue them.

I would call anyone who selected option number two a pig ignorant fcuker. Choosing to start taking an addictive substance is a choice, but when someone is physically addicted to a substance which is clinically known to produce biological cravings, this is not a choice. Recovering alcoholics who can't touch a drop, lest they fall back in, they are addicted and they did manage to kick the habit. Some addictions, like the final stages of heroin addiction, are so powerful that they can literally kill you if you stop taking the substance. How is that a choice?

ynotdu

Other, pls specify below.

some addictions are learned as they are the current peer pressure.
some are learned because it is the social culture in a family.
some have no obvious reason.
in my experiance before the start of the addiction a victom experiances a traumatic loss, a deep sense of isolation or loss of faith or trust in people in general,a deep sadness about something.

for me it is still a toss-up as to wheather it is genetic,personality type or just a person in so much emotional pain they need to anaesithise it,i guess more sensitive people are more at risk,but i am still sceptical that there is one size fits all reason for addiction.

still say this is an important thread and one were all input is equal,as nobody knows for sure.......

ynotdu

Other, pls specify below.

the pat kenny radio show discussed a drama documentry to be shown sunday [EMAIL="night@9pm"]night@9pm[/EMAIL] on bbc2 about Ann Best,mother of George Best.
the producer of the show said anything contained in it is not a matter of public record and kept the family informed as to its content(they had opted out of direct involvement)
Then the writer of a book called our George(a close friend of the family)was interviewed,so both interviewees had a vested interest.

what emerged is that Ann Best did not start drinking until she was 44yo,
it was said a neighbour called in at 9am and Ann offered her a sherry,the neighbour said ffs Ann its 9am what are you doing drinking to which Ann said I need it to get me through the day.Dickie(her husband)apparently put alcoholism down to genetics and he had plenty of experiance of the problem.it was also claimed although she had a pre existing heart condition the alcohol killed her aged 56.

interestingly Ann as a young woman had been exceptional at sports also Georges sister is a recovering alcoholic and she had been exceptional at ladies soccer and Dickie it was said was also a great soccer player.

still no answer obvious as to whether alcohol abuse is genetic or learned,I would guess it may be a mixture of both?who knows for sure?
seems likely that some people have a gene that predisposes them to almost anything be it alcoholism or good at sports?
the doc-dram be surely worth a viewing though?

dreamlogic

Addiction a choice? A contradiction in terms.

GirlInterrupted

In the beginning, the behaviours that start the addiction may be a choice, but thats where choice ends.

Addiction robs an addict of their free will vis a vis their substance of choice.

An addict has no choice, thats why they're an addict and not an occasional user.

sink

Addicts have the ability to choose their addictions & whether to continue them.

There are two types of addiction, psychological and physical and quiet often an addict can suffer from both. Psychological addiction is not a disease it is a mental disorder and it doesn't have to be a chemical addiction it can involve almost any activity. Physical addiction is most definitely a disease, it is a chemical dependency and the brain patterns of addicts with serious physical addictions are markedly different from those of healthy patients.

This is a medical issue and should be dealt with by professionals. It is not a discussion where a layman's opinion is of any value. I find it surprising that people are far more willing to form their own opinion, independent of medical and scientific studies on issues pertaining to psychology and neurology when they are the most complex and least understood areas of biology and medicine.

Joey the lips

I picked others

I think addicts start off in experimentation weather it be peerpressure or excitement seeking or just simply to get out of there life.

I then think the dependence grows so strong its not longer a hobby but an necessity.

I once heard an arguement that uses money to explain addiction.

Imagine your getting 100 euro a week.On this 100 euro you are getting by fine. Paying the bills, eating well, going out once a week. Normal life.... Then someone offers you a 50 euro top up. This allows you go out twice a week and you decide to go to the new club that charges 10 euro admission because you have the extra 50 euro. This continues for a while. You make a good circle of friends at the new club. They see you every week. You are known by your first name. Life is swell. You even start talking to a lot of male female women you usually would not!

Then your allowence is cut back to the 100. The 50 euro is taken off you. You no longer have the money to go to the club, But you need this club you have made great friends and started to make a life. So you start by cutting back on bills, then you cut back on food, The clothes you have worn 19 times will be fine with a wash. The whole in your shoes wont be noticed with polish.. Who cares you still have great friends

Then all of a sudden some friends at home notice your appearence dropping. They say it to you. but you dont care cause you still have your club. But it does effect your willingness to talk to your friends at home cause you know what they think of you. Prity soon all you have is the club as you no longer talk to your friends but you want more of the club you want to go to it thursday as well cause after all you have no friends. So you cut back your spending again.

You see addiction is a bad circle. It effects you in so many ways. We tend (me included) to judge addicts and even in there dazy state all they want is your support.

snollup

Speaking as someone that one had a heavy dependence on alcohol I would say that once I had become addicted there was no choice. Drink became more important then anything else. I am lucky though. I am educated & come from a loving supportive background.

As for those that come from an underprivileged background, often with a history of abuse. I would be very careful in saying that they have a choice. Yes, in theory you can probably say that we all have the ability to choose but in reality if you have been exposed to addiction since a young age, often seeing the misuse of drugs as the norm your not exactly starting from an ideal place to make such choices.

Piste

Addicts are too tied up in their habit to think clearly about choices, they do not have a disease.

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I would call anyone who selected option number two a pig ignorant fcuker. Choosing to start taking an addictive substance is a choice, but when someone is physically addicted to a substance which is clinically known to produce biological cravings, this is not a choice. Recovering alcoholics who can't touch a drop, lest they fall back in, they are addicted and they did manage to kick the habit. Some addictions, like the final stages of heroin addiction, are so powerful that they can literally kill you if you stop taking the substance. How is that a choice?

I wouldn't call myself a pig ignorant ****er, and I picked option 2. I believe 100% in free will. Even if someone holds a gun to your head and tells you to do something it is still your choice whether you will do it or not. The ability to make a decision doesn't change, everyone can pick option A or option B. Now what does change is circumstance, be it addiction or the aforementioned guy with a gun at your head. Addicts retain their free will but their circumstances are such that option A which fuels their addiction looks a whole lot more attractive than option B which is kick the habit, so they choose it time and time again.

Addiction is still all about choice, saying otherwise is absolving people of their responsability. When people say they "can't" give up this or that it's a cop out. The decision to, say, light a cigarette is just a series of small decisions. Walk to your bag. Pick up the packet. Take out a cigarette. Light it. These are all small steps, each one of these is a choice made by the addict.

Gonzales

Other, pls specify below.

Piste wrote: »

I wouldn't call myself a pig ignorant ****er, and I picked option 2. I believe 100% in free will. Even if someone holds a gun to your head and tells you to do something it is still your choice whether you will do it or not. The ability to make a decision doesn't change, everyone can pick option A or option B. Now what does change is circumstance, be it addiction or the aforementioned guy with a gun at your head. Addicts retain their free will but their circumstances are such that option A which fuels their addiction looks a whole lot more attractive than option B which is kick the habit, so they choose it time and time again.

Addiction is still all about choice, saying otherwise is absolving people of their responsability. When people say they "can't" give up this or that it's a cop out. The decision to, say, light a cigarette is just a series of small decisions. Walk to your bag. Pick up the packet. Take out a cigarette. Light it. These are all small steps, each one of these is a choice made by the addict.

+100

ynotdu

Other, pls specify below.

I am surprised how few responses this thread has generated.


May,be some boardsies are in denial?

since the poll closes tomorrow I will vote now.

I am going for option 3 as it is closest to what makes sense to me.

I liked the input by posters who at least tried to use some kind of scientific method to justify their opinion.

phrases like "pig ignorant" on a topic that is such a blight on society are out of order IMO.

rantyface

Addicts have the ability to choose their addictions & whether to continue them.

I think "pig ignorant" doesn't go far enough.

People seem to think giving up drugs is like losing weight or getting fit, simply a matter of will power. It's not. An addict's brain's reward system is completely, irreversibly rewired. Their brains are different, they can't make decisions the same way as a non addicted person. You have to understand that the brain is a physical organ and has physical limits.

Addiction is similar to type 2 diabetes. In addition to genetic predisposition, it is ultimately a type 2 diabetic's fault for getting fat and eating too much sugar. Then it is incurable as their pancreas is completely changed.

If drug addiction was as easy to overcome as people seem to think, it would happen from time to time that someone with enormous personal strength would just stop taking drugs and not think about them again. The best clinic in the world has a 1% complete abstention rate for heroin addicts.

Joycey

Gonzales wrote: »

I tried to open a discussion recently on the subject without putting forward my opinions (apologies) & it was locked. So I'll try again.

I've recently read a book caleed "Addiction is a Choice" where the Author argues that the Addict is choosing to pursure his addiction (habit) rather than the commonly accepted Disease model where the Addict is helpless to resist the compulsion of his addiction i.e it is beyond his control.

The Author argued that to refer to Addiction to a disease is a fanciful & totally non scientific, & baseless name tag used to absolve the Addict of personal responsability & this attitude to Addiction as a disease is Borne from US lawsuits against Tobacco companies for damages suffered by Cigarette smokers who were "diseased".

I dont believe that you account properly for the space between "addiction is a disease" and "addicts are helpless to stop their problematic behaviour". If they were helpless then how would any addict ever manage to break their addiction?

A cancer patient whos lost in the Amazon rainforest isnt necessarily "helpless to help themselves", they could jab a sharp stick into their liver and miraculously take out all the cancerous cells but leave everything else essential intact.

The question isnt about being absolutely helpless or being entirely free, but about the relative difficulty which someone has in giving up the substance/behaviour they are addicted to. Once you stop seeing things in the predominant absolutist way that society tends to promote, you'l see that there is most definitely not any unambiguous dividing line between someone who has been labelled an "addict" and someone who enjoys the odd drink every now and again but thinks they shouldnt or someone trying to cut down on chocolate.

Thats not to belittle the massively different relative difficulty which goes into stopping whatever the behaviour is, just pointing out that its not a black and white issue. In fact, the majority of people who maintain that addicts are choosing their behaviour in order to say that there should be no support for recovering addicts, or that they "are getting what they deserve" or whatever are much worse IMO then those who just say "its a disease, they cant do anything about it". I would rather it be wrongly thought of as a lack of choice then let the unfortunate people who end up unable to stop their behaviour not receive any help.

rantyface wrote: »

Drugs that cause a release in dopamine (all the addictive ones) cause a fundamental rewiring of your brain. It can be seen in scans years after you stop taking the drug. It is irreversible and uncurable. The only successful approach to drug addiction to date is management.

I think you should all read some neuroscience books rather than rubbish pop psychology.

And what does that have anything to do with the question? Unless you can prove that the "fundamental rewiring" negates our ability to make a free choice, then the above is irrelevant. While its clear that addiction is a disease, the fact that at any given moment when a cocaine addict is just about to make their dopaminergic system go *bang*, but is able to put it off there and then, be it to go to the toilet first, because their microwave just beeped or whatever makes it an entirely different situation to something like a heart attack, where there is no agency involved whatsoever.

ChocolateSauce

Addicts have the ability to choose their addictions & whether to continue them.

Piste wrote: »

I wouldn't call myself a pig ignorant ****er, and I picked option 2. I believe 100% in free will. Even if someone holds a gun to your head and tells you to do something it is still your choice whether you will do it or not. The ability to make a decision doesn't change, everyone can pick option A or option B. Now what does change is circumstance, be it addiction or the aforementioned guy with a gun at your head. Addicts retain their free will but their circumstances are such that option A which fuels their addiction looks a whole lot more attractive than option B which is kick the habit, so they choose it time and time again.

Addiction is still all about choice, saying otherwise is absolving people of their responsability. When people say they "can't" give up this or that it's a cop out. The decision to, say, light a cigarette is just a series of small decisions. Walk to your bag. Pick up the packet. Take out a cigarette. Light it. These are all small steps, each one of these is a choice made by the addict.

Of course no one would call themselves a pig ignorant f***er, which is why it falls to others to point it out.

Free will? Almost makes me laugh. If we had free will, it would be very easy for everyone to keep fit, or to not overspend, or to approach a pretty girl you're too nervous to talk to. Free will would mean if we want something, we do it. This obviously isn't the case generally, let alone when our bodies are chemically dependent on something like nicotine or (god forbid) heroin, which as I said before is so powerful that a heavily dependent person can literally die if they are deprived of it.

We are somewhat free, but we are slaves to our biochemical and neurological workings. Anyone who refuses to recognise this is what I might say uninformed, but anyone who takes an opposite stance to this is pig f**ing ignorant....which is sadly approx. 28% of people, according to the poll.

Greyfox

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Of course no one would call themselves a pig ignorant f***er, which is why it falls to others to point it out.

Free will? Almost makes me laugh. If we had free will, it would be very easy for everyone to keep fit, or to not overspend, or to approach a pretty girl you're too nervous to talk to. Free will would mean if we want something, we do it. This obviously isn't the case generally, let alone when our bodies are chemically dependent on something like nicotine or (god forbid) heroin, which as I said before is so powerful that a heavily dependent person can literally die if they are deprived of it.

We are somewhat free, but we are slaves to our biochemical and neurological workings. Anyone who refuses to recognise this is what I might say uninformed, but anyone who takes an opposite stance to this is pig f**ing ignorant....which is sadly approx. 28% of people, according to the poll.

Piste has already explained to you how completely stupid you are for calling 28% of people pig ignorant, do you ever think befor you post?
I suggest that you try to make your arguments without resorting to slagging people off for simply not agreeing with you.

I accept once you are addicted you don't have a choice, your a slave to your addiction and finding a way back is the hardest thing in the world.

What I'm talking about is, you can do something about it just BEFOR you get addicted, How come most people can keep relatively fit, because most people do something about it when they put on weight! How come most people don't overspend? Because people realise their overspending and choose to cut back! How come most guys don't fear approaching women? Because most guys learn that approacing a pretty girl is no big deal!

If I had a death in my family I'd definitely turn to alcohol but I know NOW that if I do that their is a point down that line when I could be becoming an alcoholic. I've been tempted to try cocaine on two occasions and I haven't, why? Because I know if I try it theirs a risk of addiction. People know in advance that theirs a point in time where you become addicted to something and people can stop befor they reach that point in time thanks to FREE WILL!

Yes of course theirs loads of people that are surrounded by drink and drugs at an early age and get addicted because they didn't know any better, but then why do a lot of people that are surrounded by this not get addicted?? The majority of people that get addictions where not in this situation and of those that where most of then reached a point where they could choose the hard road of getting out or the easy road...and they chose the easy road!

ChocolateSauce

Addicts have the ability to choose their addictions & whether to continue them.

Greyfox wrote: »

Piste has already explained to you how completely stupid you are for calling 28% of people pig ignorant, do you ever think befor you post?
I suggest that you try to make your arguments without resorting to slagging people off for simply not agreeing with you.

Slagging someone and giving my honest opinion are two very different things. Further, I don't care how many people think I'm wrong; I don't need a seconder, that's my opinion and that's enough for me.

I accept once you are addicted you don't have a choice, your a slave to your addiction and finding a way back is the hardest thing in the world.

What I'm talking about is, you can do something about it just BEFOR you get addicted.

chocolatesauce, post 24 wrote:

Choosing to start taking an addictive substance is a choice,

No argument there.

monellia

Addition is a sign of lacking strength. People don't choose to lack strength. It takes a lot of strength to overcome addition.

rantyface wrote:

People seem to think giving up drugs is like losing weight or getting fit, simply a matter of will power. It's not. An addict's brain's reward system is completely, irreversibly rewired. Their brains are different, they can't make decisions the same way as a non addicted person. You have to understand that the brain is a physical organ and has physical limits.

Quite true. Addicts become so used to this "reward system" that the prospect of breaking their routine seems scary and unknown to them. Their routine is all they have in life. It validates their very existence. Overcoming addiction isn't merely a case of fighting the urge. It's about facing the prospect of the unknown and learning how to think a certain way again.

dreamlogic wrote:

Addiction a choice? A contradiction in terms.

Good point. By definition, being addicted means having no choice in the matter. People who haven't experienced real addiction may find this difficult to comprehend.

ChocolateSauce wrote:

Choosing to start taking an addictive substance is a choice

Also true. People choose to take risks. Potential addicts aren't aware that they will become addicted, though, therefore they don't choose addiction.