The proposed "free" preschool year?

TheQueen

Can anyone shed any light on this, I've read that its for children aged 3+3mths to 4+6mths and thats about all I can find. Does anyone know anything else?

is_that_so

Apparently there will be 75,000 places available from January. In theory every child who is at least 3 years and 3 months in January will get a free year.

gcgirl

Would it not be better if the Government actually built Pre-schools/Childcare centers and employed people to run them like other european countries !

is_that_so

I have to admit one of the few "bright" ideas they've come up with. The question is how they will actually roll it out.

xOxSinéadxOx

gcgirl wrote: »

Would it not be better if the Government actually built Pre-schools/Childcare centers and employed people to run them like other european countries !

yes, but that would cost money

Dean D

is_that_so wrote: »

I have to admit one of the few "bright" ideas they've come up with. The question is how they will actually roll it out.

That's because they didn't come up with it, it's something Labour have been advocating since at least 2007. It will be cheaper, I believe, than providing the early childcare supplement.

is_that_so

Indeed but they are implementing it and it is a good idea irrespective of who advocated it .

tinner777

is_that_so wrote: »

Apparently there will be 75,000 places available from January. In theory every child who is at least 3 years and 3 months in January will get a free year.

where though? I live in the middle of no where, how will it work?

is_that_so

No idea. Like you I have just picked up bits and pieces. O'Cuiv was on radio a little earlier and he mentioned that number but was unable to offer any other insights. I suspect that comes under how they might roll it out.

gcgirl

xOxSinéadxOx wrote: »

yes, but that would cost money

What create employment and a proper place thats afforable to leave your kids in! Have a look at France! Its costing money anyway How much money has found its way out of the country?

ScarletO'Hara

I have a better idea. Mothers should stay at home at least for the first couple of years and rear their children themselves. They might actually enjoy it and the children certainly would. I know women paying 1200 plus a month for childcare. For crying out loud what's the matter with parents that they don't want to care for their own children. You would be better off financially in some cases staying at home. Any children derserve to be minded by their parents, particularly their mothers, not reared in institutions.

tinner777

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

I have a better idea. Mothers should stay at home at least for the first couple of years and rear their children themselves. They might actually enjoy it and the children certainly would. I know women paying 1200 plus a month for childcare. For crying out loud what's the matter with parents that they don't want to care for their own children. You would be better off financially in some cases staying at home. Any children derserve to be minded by their parents, particularly their mothers, not reared in institutions.

smashing, thanks for that, so you think this government support that do you??? i'd love to give up work and stay at home, but wait a minute that would mean i lose my job and then have little chance of getting another one when my kids goto school.

gcgirl

Kids need something to intergrate them in to going to big school !! It helps the socially intergrate with their peers!

ScarletO'Hara

tinner777 wrote: »

smashing, thanks for that, so you think this government support that do you??? i'd love to give up work and stay at home, but wait a minute that would mean i lose my job and then have little chance of getting another one when my kids goto school.

Take a chance, aren't your kids worth it? How do you know you won't get another job in a couple of years. Sometimes quality of life of all is worth a little sacrifice. I cannot bear to think of babies and small children being hauled out of their bed to be left in creches. There is an alternative.

positivenote

so if this is implemented what will it mean for those wrking in creches at the moment. My partner left a 60k + retail management job two years ago to wrk with kids instead, she forked out and got a qualification in montassoiri teaching yet she is still only getting paid 10.40 p/hr working in a creche. Does this new scheme provide employment opportunities for people in a similar position to herself? or will it only be for qualified primary school teachers?

Quackles

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

I have a better idea. Mothers should stay at home at least for the first couple of years and rear their children themselves. They might actually enjoy it and the children certainly would. I know women paying 1200 plus a month for childcare. For crying out loud what's the matter with parents that they don't want to care for their own children. You would be better off financially in some cases staying at home. Any children derserve to be minded by their parents, particularly their mothers, not reared in institutions.

Brilliant idea! Maybe the government will pay my mortgage while I do this. What this country needs now is more people on the live register.

I find your post offensive, to be honest, insinuating that all those who don't stay at home with their kids are doing so out of choice. But this is really not the forum to debate such things, so to keep things on topic, it's about time some variety of preschool was provided. I wonder how useful this will be to those of us living outside of large towns and cities, though.

Ludo

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

I have a better idea. Mothers should stay at home at least for the first couple of years and rear their children themselves. They might actually enjoy it and the children certainly would. I know women paying 1200 plus a month for childcare. For crying out loud what's the matter with parents that they don't want to care for their own children. You would be better off financially in some cases staying at home. Any children derserve to be minded by their parents, particularly their mothers, not reared in institutions.

Ideally this would be the case. But with the cuts in ECS and child benefit in this budget, this is going to be even less of an option for people now.

Of course there are feck all jobs around now also, so a lot more will have to do this.

is_that_so

positivenote wrote: »

so if this is implemented what will it mean for those wrking in creches at the moment. My partner left a 60k + retail management job two years ago to wrk with kids instead, she forked out and got a qualification in montassoiri teaching yet she is still only getting paid 10.40 p/hr working in a creche. Does this new scheme provide employment opportunities for people in a similar position to herself? or will it only be for qualified primary school teachers?

Hannafin suggested that it will work by making payments to preschools. The cost will be about €200 million or so. The devil as they say is in the detail. No useful details on it yet.

Ice_Box

for most people you will still need to take your kids to the creche in the morning and then pay or a bus to take your kids to the 2.5 hours of preschool. No use to me.

maxwell smart

Will they use the existing Montessori schools as a base from which to role this out? These usually cost about €300 per month, so the payment would cover this.

beggars_bush

gcgirl wrote: »

What create employment and a proper place thats afforable to leave your kids in! Have a look at France! Its costing money anyway How much money has found its way out of the country?

problem is. long term, that would put a lot more cost on the government.

1 - extra public service employees
2 - pensions

Seres

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

I have a better idea. Mothers should stay at home at least for the first couple of years and rear their children themselves. They might actually enjoy it and the children certainly would. I know women paying 1200 plus a month for childcare. For crying out loud what's the matter with parents that they don't want to care for their own children. You would be better off financially in some cases staying at home. Any children derserve to be minded by their parents, particularly their mothers, not reared in institutions.

i find your comment very offensive and narrow minded.
for one why is your post directed mainly at mothers , you know every child has two parents.
secondly in the current situation alot of men are out of work and at home and its not financially viable to have two parents are home
thirdly i for one (and i sure alot of other mothers) would much prefer to be at home with my kids rather than out working so please dont presume to think that i ( we ) dont enjoys looking after and spending time with my kids.

themadchef

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

I have a better idea. Mothers should stay at home at least for the first couple of years and rear their children themselves.

Maybe we should plough the back garden and grow spuds and rear a few chickens for the dinner too

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

They might actually enjoy it and the children certainly would.

Do you think we go to work because we despise spending time with out kids :eek:

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

I know women paying 1200 plus a month for childcare. For crying out loud what's the matter with parents that they don't want to care for their own children. You would be better off financially in some cases staying at home.

It's not a matter of choice, we choose to work to provide for our kids. Perhaps we should all go on social welfare. Sure the kids would have us all the time and no doubt they wont mind living in the street and going hungry and cold for a while as we wait on the government and other tax payers to house us. After all, the kids need us at home. No one can care for a child apart from a parent :rolleyes:

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

Any children derserve to be minded by their parents, particularly their mothers, not reared in institutions.

Maybe we should home school them as well. Can't have them nasty teachers raising our kids for us.

MoominPapa

Back on topic:
My child was born in August, since he will start school in September he will only be able to avail of 9 months "free" preschool. What is the reason for starting at 3 years 3 months? Why not just make it free for the year prior to starting school?

is_that_so

MoominPapa wrote: »

Back on topic:
My child was born in August, since he will start school in September he will only be able to avail of 9 months "free" preschool. What is the reason for starting at 3 years 3 months? Why not just make it free for the year prior to starting school?

Nine months takes a child of 3 years 3 months up to September and the age of 4 at which point they can , in theory, go to free "big" school.

foxy06

MoominPapa wrote: »

Back on topic:
My child was born in August, since he will start school in September he will only be able to avail of 9 months "free" preschool. What is the reason for starting at 3 years 3 months? Why not just make it free for the year prior to starting school?

Unfortunately that would involve them doing something of actual use to parents and that is obviously not what this budget was about. All they have done is made it harder for the working family and with the childrens allowance getting means tested soon, joining the dole queues voluntarily is looking more and more appealing.

Has any country other than Ireland taken such harsh steps to get out of the recession? Or has any other country taxed themselves out of a recession.

MoominPapa

Wasn't thinking of preschool following the regular school year, as the wee fella is in creche which runs preschool, but all year. Actually makes sense!

Tax relief on creche fees, now that would be progressive and help business and employment and working families - so of course it'll never happen

dflynn

TheQueen wrote: »

Can anyone shed any light on this, I've read that its for children aged 3+3mths to 4+6mths and thats about all I can find. Does anyone know anything else?

this is true basicly pre-school services (play schools creches) will apply to be placed on a list, this list will be posted for families to choose from. the government will pay directly to the pre-school service and your child will attend for free. they will pay up to 68euro per week if the child attends 3 hours per day five days per week. this will make no differece to those working in the service.

Scotts

Can i just double check if the payment stops the day the kid starts "big school" in the first week of September. Or does the payment continue up until the child is 4yrs and 6 months old?

dflynn

Scotts wrote: »

Can i just double check if the payment stops the day the kid starts "big school" in the first week of September. Or does the payment continue up until the child is 4yrs and 6 months old?

they actually only pay for 38 weeks the same as the school year so i dont believe it is payed through the summer months. alot of pre-schools expect payment for those weeks that the schools are closed even if they close as we do easter ect which will not be payed this may mean alot of them wont go for it........

dflynn

Ice_Box wrote: »

for most people you will still need to take your kids to the creche in the morning and then pay or a bus to take your kids to the 2.5 hours of preschool. No use to me.

i am sure this can be paid to the creche they will pay 2hrs 15min of your childs fee up to 48euro a week as i read it. i believe the creche can apply. check it out.:)

sarahmum2

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

I have a better idea. Mothers should stay at home at least for the first couple of years and rear their children themselves. They might actually enjoy it and the children certainly would. I know women paying 1200 plus a month for childcare. For crying out loud what's the matter with parents that they don't want to care for their own children. You would be better off financially in some cases staying at home. Any children derserve to be minded by their parents, particularly their mothers, not reared in institutions.

I am a working mother. My child is in a creche full time. I work because I "choose" to. I am not forced to do so. I love my child very much and am annoyed that you think that just because I work, I love my children less than you or do not want to spend time with them. I love my job, I find it very fullfulling. My child is extreemely happy in creche and then in the evenings and weekends she gets loads of quality time with her parents. I don't see it as a second best option to staying at home with her, it's is just different.

ScarletO'Hara

sarahmum2 wrote: »

I am a working mother. My child is in a creche full time. I work because I "choose" to. I am not forced to do so. I love my child very much and am annoyed that you think that just because I work, I love my children less than you or do not want to spend time with them. I love my job, I find it very fullfulling. My child is extreemely happy in creche and then in the evenings and weekends she gets loads of quality time with her parents. I don't see it as a second best option to staying at home with her, it's is just different.

I have not accused anyone of not loving their children more or less than anyone else. What I have said is that I do not understand how anyone can leave their very young baby/child in a creche for an entire day, five days a week. Financially it cannot be worth it in a lot of cases. Never mind the huge amount of time you are missing with your child. I wonder how many parents who are now doing this would have liked it for themselves as they were growing up, and after school going to a childminding service rather than to their own home. Being cared for in a creche from baby stage and up is at best, second best. There's a happy medium somewhere I'm sure, half the week maybe? You ha ve said you 'choose' to work and that is honest. When your child is older and her choice to to stay at home, and not go to a creche or whatever, what then?

MILF

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

I have not accused anyone of not loving their children more or less than anyone else. What I have said is that I do not understand how anyone can leave their very young baby/child in a creche for an entire day, five days a week. Financially it cannot be worth it in a lot of cases. Never mind the huge amount of time you are missing with your child. I wonder how many parents who are now doing this would have liked it for themselves as they were growing up, and after school going to a childminding service rather than to their own home. Being cared for in a creche from baby stage and up is at best, second best. There's a happy medium somewhere I'm sure, half the week maybe? You ha ve said you 'choose' to work and that is honest. When your child is older and her choice to to stay at home, and not go to a creche or whatever, what then?

I find you extremely annoying and offensive.
Do you have children?

ScarletO'Hara

MILF wrote: »

I find you extremely annoying and offensive.
Do you have children?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Just because you don't agree with mine should not be reason to be annoyed or offended. Disagree maybe. Why to you feel so extremely annoyed and offended ?
Yes I have children.

MILF

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Just because you don't agree with mine should not be reason to be annoyed or offended. Disagree maybe. Why to you feel so extremely annoyed and offended ?
Yes I have children.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is that I find you annoying and offensive!
For someone who alleges that they have children, it baffles me that you think that any working mother/father is choosing to work because they would prefer doing that then spend time with their children. Most hardworking parents go to work and leave their children with creches or childminders as they want to get as much money as they possibly can to give their children any kind of life. Yes, creches etc take up a large chunk of parents wages on a weekly or monthly basis but what little money is left for some people, that money goes on their children to give them a good life and nice things etc. The state will give you €204.30 basic dole and €26 for each child if you are a stay at home parent. Who can survive on that?? I know I can't. I was a hardworking parent of 2 who left her children at a creche 5 days a week all day. It was damn hard leaving them each day but I had to if I wanted to give them the best in life. Then I lost my job, then my partner did. Its damn hard but I never once thought to myself "Jeez, I don't feel like minding these two, I think I'll take the easier option and go back to work".
I have immense admiration for any working parent as it is not easy as I doubt you would know, judging by your remarks. That's why I find you annoying and offensive.

Godge

You have all missed the point on this measure.

I bet you that some bright spark in Revenue took out the phone book and realised that very few of the creches/Montessori schools advertised were paying any tax. By paying them some money for the 3-4 year age group, they can look at their books for the after-school kids of 4 and older as well as the under-3s. Brilliant way of raising revenue for the State while also playing to the gallery. This measure will be self-financing because of the extra revenue and they will save all the money on the early childcare supplement.

ScarletO'Hara

MILF wrote: »

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is that I find you annoying and offensive!
For someone who alleges that they have children, it baffles me that you think that any working mother/father is choosing to work because they would prefer doing that then spend time with their children. Most hardworking parents go to work and leave their children with creches or childminders as they want to get as much money as they possibly can to give their children any kind of life. Yes, creches etc take up a large chunk of parents wages on a weekly or monthly basis but what little money is left for some people, that money goes on their children to give them a good life and nice things etc. The state will give you €204.30 basic dole and €26 for each child if you are a stay at home parent. Who can survive on that?? I know I can't. I was a hardworking parent of 2 who left her children at a creche 5 days a week all day. It was damn hard leaving them each day but I had to if I wanted to give them the best in life. Then I lost my job, then my partner did. Its damn hard but I never once thought to myself "Jeez, I don't feel like minding these two, I think I'll take the easier option and go back to work".
I have immense admiration for any working parent as it is not easy as I doubt you would know, judging by your remarks. That's why I find you annoying and offensive.

Why do you think I'm making up that I have children. I have two. Both grown up. Yes I worked while they were growing up, I'm still working, thank God. It doesn't change my opinion that I don't agree with full time creche care for babies. I don't think it is the best start in life for them. It probably doesn't do them any long term harm, who knows. This is the first generation that is being reared this wayl. Did I have perfect childcare arrangements? No. Do I regret that I worked from when my chldren started school? Yes. Would I do things differently.... perhaps. If a parent works and after paying childcare and other costs related in getting to work and maybe what is left over is almost nothing, would it not be better to stay at home and enjoy it. The best things in life can not always be bought. I hope you and your partner have luck in your job seeking.

MILF

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

If a parent works and after paying childcare and other costs related in getting to work and maybe what is left over is almost nothing, would it not be better to stay at home and enjoy it.

How does the rent get paid then? Shopping, bills, clothes?...
I just think if you are now a mother of 2 grown children then you are living in the past when, lets face it, it was easier for mothers to stay at home and look after the children while hubby went out and worked. Things are a hell of a lot different now and most families have no choice but to work and send the kids to creches and childcarers. For a lot of families, its just not an option to stay at home. Doesn't make them any less a parent.
In your eyes, its not the best start in life but in my opinion its a great thing for a child to go and interact with other children, both of the same age and older, and for them to interact with other adults, not just you. Its character building and sets them up for school when they realise that Mammy and Daddy arent with them 24/7. When I sent my first child to creche, I noticed a huge difference in her. She gained confidence and is brilliant at interacting with people. My son is only 15 months old but I expect him to be the same.

ScarletO'Hara

MILF wrote: »

How does the rent get paid then? Shopping, bills, clothes?...
I just think if you are now a mother of 2 grown children then you are living in the past when, lets face it, it was easier for mothers to stay at home and look after the children while hubby went out and worked. Things are a hell of a lot different now and most families have no choice but to work and send the kids to creches and childcarers. For a lot of families, its just not an option to stay at home. Doesn't make them any less a parent.
In your eyes, its not the best start in life but in my opinion its a great thing for a child to go and interact with other children, both of the same age and older, and for them to interact with other adults, not just you. Its character building and sets them up for school when they realise that Mammy and Daddy arent with them 24/7. When I sent my first child to creche, I noticed a huge difference in her. She gained confidence and is brilliant at interacting with people. My son is only 15 months old but I expect him to be the same.

I think the only thing we'll agree on is that we disagree. Best wishes anyway.

mcwhirter

is_that_so wrote: »

I have to admit one of the few "bright" ideas they've come up with. The question is how they will actually roll it out.

It is not a 'fair' idea though if your children have just finished pre-school.

TheQueen

The only way this will work is of all preschools and montisorri's apply, personally, I cant see this happening, can you?

TheQueen

mcwhirter wrote: »

It is not a 'fair' idea though if your children have just finished pre-school.

On the plus side you have had the payment for almost three years so that must have helped pay for preschool?

mcwhirter

TheQueen wrote: »

On the plus side you have had the payment for almost three years so that must have helped pay for preschool?

I was paying 190 euros a month for pre school, and that was only for 3 days a week, the supplement only helped partly not fully.

ntlbell

mcwhirter wrote: »

It is not a 'fair' idea though if your children have just finished pre-school.

huh?

The government are unfair because the budget didn't fit in with the timing of your kids?

really?

mcwhirter

ntlbell wrote: »

huh?

The government are unfair because the budget didn't fit in with the timing of your kids?

really?

Yes, before it was indiscriminate on when you had children,

huh!

TheQueen

mcwhirter wrote: »

I was paying 190 euros a month for pre school, and that was only for 3 days a week, the supplement only helped partly not fully.

Im the same in that my ECS for my two children was covering my daughters playschool. Hopefully though the free pre-school year will cover her for at least six months next year and my son should get a free full year. If this is the case it will be more beneficial to me and Im sure others. The timing isn't great in your case but my point was I am sure the amount you have received in ECS in the previous three years will come close to paying for preschool. If your child was a couple of years older you would never have gotten this payment at all.

mcwhirter

TheQueen wrote: »

Im the same in that my ECS for my two children was covering my daughters playschool. Hopefully though the free pre-school year will cover her for at least six months next year and my son should get a free full year. If this is the case it will be more beneficial to me and Im sure others. The timing isn't great in your case but my point was I am sure the amount you have received in ECS in the previous three years will come close to paying for preschool. If your child was a couple of years older you would never have gotten this payment at all.

Fair enough, the ECS covered about half the pre school fees though it was better than nothing.

ntlbell

mcwhirter wrote: »

Yes, before it was indiscriminate on when you had children,

huh!

The point is it's not unfair because you missed the boat

my mother got no child care benefit no mortgage relief why? because there was no such thing she missed the boat

themadchef

The thing is we were used to the money. I have 4 kids, the oldest turns 5 next month. I will miss it, of course i will. BUT loads of people with kids older than mine never got it in the first place. Wait till they take our childrens allowance too

We need a decent set up for this pre school year. I am living in a really rural area and i cant see any place within 8 miles providing the service. I will in all likelyhood miss out on the opportunity of providing my kids with this free year of pre school. Why cant they do it through the national schools? Set up is already there.

I wonder when it comes to the depths of rural Ireland where these services may not be available are they just going to say "tough luck"

sarahmum2

Godge wrote: »

You have all missed the point on this measure.

I bet you that some bright spark in Revenue took out the phone book and realised that very few of the creches/Montessori schools advertised were paying any tax. By paying them some money for the 3-4 year age group, they can look at their books for the after-school kids of 4 and older as well as the under-3s. Brilliant way of raising revenue for the State while also playing to the gallery. This measure will be self-financing because of the extra revenue and they will save all the money on the early childcare supplement.

I work as an accountant - I find that creches are actually probably one of the most tax compliant business' - they must register with the local health board and have to comply with a bunch of regulations. part of this involves the constant recording of numbers of children on site, staff, etc. They will get in big trouble with health board if this is not up to date and can be inspected without warning. as a result, it would be very hard for them to hide income and avoid tax.

It is more likely that unregistered childminders at home will suffer, because even though they can earn some of this money tax free, they may not be classed as pre-school, and so parents might move more towards registered places.