Under 20's dole cut...increase in antisocial behaviour?

Richard Dower

I am going to generalise here!...ok, lets assume those under 20 are thugs and housing estate types, if there dole is cut in half will this increase crime and anti social behaviour?

Or...will it stop them from blowing all there doleon cans and hash ? and keep them off the street?

Jamie-b

It will make those who are wasters try to get a ob and an education... but at the expense of those who geuinely need and deserve the dole.

johnnyskeleton

If they are already thugs the budget won't change them.

If they are not, they might be tempted into petty crime.

I'm not sure of the specifics of this change though. If you are 19 and doing a fas course, do you get effectively the same as the dole (or whatever it is that FAS pays)? Is it actually a way of getting under 20s to do courses, or is it a pure cut them and save tactic?

ionix5891

actually there be a decrease probably as these people would have to get a job in restaurants etc and work hard (like i did at that age)

instead of sitting at home playin xboxes and then drinking rest of their money

johnnyskeleton

ionix5891 wrote: »

actually there be a decrease probably as these people would have to get a job in restaurants etc and work hard (like i did at that age)

instead of sitting at home playin xboxes and then drinking rest of their money

And if the jobs aren't there or instead of giving it to someone who was on the dole for 2 years, the resteraunt decides to give it to the recently laid off builder who never missed a days work etc?

At best, it will encourage them to take up fas courses, provided that those courses will give them more money than the dole.

The Muppet

Richard Dower wrote: »

I am going to generalise here!...ok, lets assume those under 20 are thugs and housing estate types, if there dole is cut in half will this increase crime and anti social behaviour?

Or...will it stop them from blowing all there doleon cans and hash ? and keep them off the street?

What exactly is a "housing estate type"?

Holsten

Skangers.

Richard Dower

Housing estate types....you'll know them when you see and here them and how they behave.

The Muppet

Richard Dower wrote: »

Housing estate types....you'll know them when you see and here them and how they behave.

Could the same generalisation be applied to citizens of Limerick?


I know well what you mean but many decent people are reared in housing estates, you stereo typing in such a manner is insulting.

mayordenis

The Muppet wrote: »

Could the same generalisation be applied to citizens of Limerick?


I know well what you mean but many decent people are reared in housing estates, you stereo typing in such a manner is insulting.

In fairness there is a clear caveat that the OP admitted beforehand to generalising, not fair to attack the OP on this imo. Not saying everyone, just using the term for the sake of the argument.

ShooterSF

I await the papers finding an unemployed 19 year old who's parents have passed away living on a 100 a week.

Jah Luff

What difference does it make if you are 19 and 20? This is ridiculas I was sturggling to survive on 200 nevermind 100. And how will it encourage people to do courses if there are no courses to do? There is already huge waiting lists for courses. **** them.

IrishLady

The dole should have been cut for people who are on it the longest and who couldnt bother their arse in getting a job even when the celtic tiger was at its peak...not for under 20 when people only finish up school and cannot find a job because of the way the job fronts are at the moment.They should be trying to implement courses for people who have lost their jobs so they will have better skills and training and also investing in companys by keeping them up and running..well my education didnt get me anywhere in the end, just got let go there last friday and im sick of this p**y gov!!:mad:

Richard Dower

My sweeping generalisation applies to all areas of the country.

limericklady87

tbh i dont see many reasons for anyone 18 or 19 to be sitting around on the dole.. i know genuinely there are some that will have lost their jobs but ffs it might encourage some of the school drop-outs/druggies/buggy brigade to think a bit more or do a course and try to make something of themselves...:rolleyes:

Richard Dower

IrishLady wrote: »

The dole should have been cut for people who are on it the longest and who couldnt bother their arse in getting a job even when the celtic tiger was at its peak...not for under 20 when people only finish up school and cannot find a job because of the way the job fronts are at the moment.They should be trying to implement courses for people who have lost their jobs so they will have better skills and training and also investing in companys by keeping them up and running..well my education didnt get me anywhere in the end, just got let go there last friday and im sick of this p**y gov!!:mad:

ionix5891

IrishLady wrote: »

The dole should have been cut for people who are on it the longest and who couldnt bother their arse in getting a job even when the celtic tiger was at its peak...not for under 20 when people only finish up school and cannot find a job because of the way the job fronts are at the moment.They should be trying to implement courses for people who have lost their jobs so they will have better skills and training and also investing in companys by keeping them up and running..well my education didnt get me anywhere in the end, just got let go there last friday and im sick of this p**y gov!!:mad:

what was you education in?

im in engineering and there is a HUGE number of available jobs even in this day and age, im after paying the taxman a huge chunk of money and will have to do that again in few months to support people who decided to take an easy path in life

and whats funny is when i was in uni all eng courses were almost empty and now that im working with a local IT the engineering courses are still empty, in meantime 3rd level education is still one of the cheapest in europe...

ive no sympathy for people who went doing arts or commerce or other courses that dont help economy and now cant find jobs

there is still demand for people with Eng, It, Science backgrounds

.

aare

I think politicians overlooked the fact that not everyone under 20 has a family to turn to, or subsidize them, and these young people are denied other educational advantages as a result and are less likely to be able to find work than the norm.

Without provision to make exception for anyone without effective family support you will kill some of them and drive the rest to crime.

Thatcher tried this in the 80s, that's how the cardboard cities were born...and even she had to allow for exceptions on humanitarian grounds within a few weeks.

Rev. Kitchen

Its cut to 100 euro but if you join a course or further education or re training you dont get cut. The only ones that will be cut are the ones that want to sit around doing nothing all day as a carrer

Jah Luff

Ima go buy me a decent box tomrrow and some nice pastic bag to wear with my lovely 100 euro.

limericklady87

fair enough! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

the fact that these under 20's receiving JA will not have their payments cut if they are undergoing a fas course is also going prett handy on them. imo if they cannot work they should be out learning something to assist their entry/re-entry into the workforce instead of sitting at home watching jeremy kyle

Jah Luff

limericklady87 wrote: »

fair enough! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

the fact that these under 20's receiving JA will not have their payments cut if they are undergoing a fas course is also going prett handy on them. imo if they cannot work they should be out learning something to assist their entry/re-entry into the workforce instead of sitting at home watching jeremy kyle

If you were looking for a course you would see the huge wating lists to get one.

IrishLady

ionix5891 wrote: »

what was you education in?

im in engineering and there is a HUGE number of available jobs even in this day and age, im after paying the taxman a huge chunk of money and will have to do that again in few months to support people who decided to take an easy path in life

and whats funny is when i was in uni all eng courses were almost empty and now that im working with a local IT the engineering courses are still empty, in meantime 3rd level education is still one of the cheapest in europe...

ive no sympathy for people who went doing arts or commerce or other courses that dont help economy and now cant find jobs

there is still demand for people with Eng, It, Science backgrounds

.

Im educated in business and computers and having no sympathy for people who have studied arts etc .. i think thats a bit harsh after all they have educated themselves to get where they are today regardless of what they study their not the ones who have been sitting around for years collecting tax payers money...the government should of looked into unmarried mothers also,sure why wouldnt these people keep having kids when us irish fools will pay for their pleasure and im not condeming all unmarried mothers by the way..

limericklady87

then wait i suggest isntead of drawing for the rest of your days! thankfully im not looking for one, i am about the complete a 4year law degree which i worked damn hard to get into and at the end of which i will probably be unemployed. I did not receive a grant either as my parents income was slightly over the threshold but i finance myself completely. if i had the option of e100 each week while completing this course, i would have been damn greatful

ionix5891

IrishLady wrote: »

Im educated in business and computers and having no sympathy for people who have studied arts etc .. i think thats a bit harsh after all they have educated themselves to get where they are today regardless of what they study their not the ones who have been sitting around for years collecting tax payers money...the government should of looked into unmarried mothers also,sure why wouldnt these people keep having kids when us irish fools will pay for their pleasure and im not condeming all unmarried mothers by the way..

me agrees :pac:

tho government looking into anything involves alot of money being wasted and i heard that public sector workers are a bit disgruntled lately for being told that their employment depended on tax receipts from a housing ponzy scheme

aare

Rev. Kitchen wrote: »

Its cut to 100 euro but if you join a course or further education or re training you dont get cut. The only ones that will be cut are the ones that want to sit around doing nothing all day as a carrer

I don't think that aspect has been specified yet...it looked to me as if it will be cut whether you join a course or not...

rainbowtrout

Jah Luff wrote: »

If you were looking for a course you would see the huge wating lists to get one.

There are plenty of PLC courses you could enrol on, which allow you to keep JSA and make you eligible to apply to third level.

ionix5891

limericklady87 wrote: »

tbh i dont see many reasons for anyone 18 or 19 to be sitting around on the dole.. i know genuinely there are some that will have lost their jobs but ffs it might encourage some of the school drop-outs/druggies/buggy brigade to think a bit more or do a course and try to make something of themselves...:rolleyes:

theres this thing called weed, does wonders to you at that age

bobbiw

Richard Dower wrote: »

Absolutly, they should have cut the longest term dole people completly.

People should be given a maximum of 6 months or maybe 12 after that they should be on their own.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

This thread stinks of generalisations, it is not benificial to anyone, more tolls here than AH...

Richard Dower wrote: »

I am going to generalise here!...ok, lets assume those under 20 are thugs and housing estate types, if there dole is cut in half will this increase crime and anti social behaviour?

Or...will it stop them from blowing all there doleon cans and hash ? and keep them off the street?

While some do spend their money on drink, most spend very little on drink, very little. Those that do spend a lot on drink do not need social welfare, if you know anyone like this, report them.

How it will keep them off the streets? If they want drink they will still spend the money on drink...

ionix5891 wrote: »

actually there be a decrease probably as these people would have to get a job in restaurants etc and work hard (like i did at that age)

instead of sitting at home playin xboxes and then drinking rest of their money

Sure there's millions of jobs out there, magic jobs that just appear when you need. Social welfare is only for people who don't want to work... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

This type of tripe is getitng annoying... Where the hell do you think these jobs are going to appear from???

aare

bobbiw wrote: »

Absolutly, they should have cut the longest term dole people completly.

People should be given a maximum of 6 months or maybe 12 after that they should be on their own.

On their own, in a recession, with galloping unemployment, to do precisely what?

Of course some of them will just bludgeon their children and hang themselves, relatively peacefully, but most of them will collect and survive, any way they can...

...and I do NOT think that will enhance the society we live in for anyone.

Also, though I am sure there are some long term dole scroungers, there are other reasons why people fall into the unemployment trap and can't get out too.

bobbiw

aare wrote: »

On their own, in a recession, with galloping unemployment, to do precisely what?

Of course some of them will just bludgeon their children and hang themselves, relatively peacefully, but most of them will collect and survive, any way they can...

...and I do NOT think that will enhance the society we live in for anyone.

Also, though I am sure there are some long term dole scroungers, there are other reasons why people fall into the unemployment trap and can't get out too.

People who have contributed to society through work and effort and have paid taxes should be helped in accordance with their contibution.

Others like people who have never worked should not be given any housing or any money pure and simple.

Former prisoners should be forced to pay back the cost of keeping them there over the rest of their lives.

marko91

When is this joke of a decision coming into action?how do they bloody expect us to go on when all we have enough for is food and bills NOTHING else:mad:

Corbin Careful Matchbox

Corbin Careful Matchbox wrote: »

This thread stinks of generalisations, it is not benificial to anyone, more tolls here than AH...

Oh please cut the PC bull and wake up.
What sort of people do you think under 20's on the dole are,the majority left school early and couldnt be arsed to do anything but sit around all day smoking and drinking.
Pissing in and out of FAS courses as they feel,after 2 weeks when they get bored they quit for a while and then do it again..
Of course there are exeptions but this is exactly what the majority do, I personally know bums like this and 90% do exactly what I outlined above.

KittyeeTrix

Holsten wrote: »

Skangers.

How dare you?
Honest to god, I cannot wrap my head around the comments that fly!!!!
I grew up on a council housing estate in a family with 5 kids.
4 of us working at the moment
I'm the only one not working but am in college getting my degree as a mature student.
My brother and sister have Masters degrees and are working as research engineers and HR managers.

That's an awful thing to say about everyone who grew up or who now lives on a council estate!!!!:mad:

Absolutely shocking

aare

bobbiw wrote: »

People who have contributed to society through work and effort and have paid taxes should be helped in accordance with their contibution.

Others like people who have never worked should not be given any housing or any money pure and simple.

Former prisoners should be forced to pay back the cost of keeping them there over the rest of their lives.

You are ignoring one tiny point...whatever you do, you cannot force people to do the impossible...and if you try to force people on the fringes of society (and you really do not know how they all wound up there to be judging) to do the impossible out of desperation, all they will even be *able* to do is turn on society...that will not be a good thing for society.

So, if you cannot be humane, at least be realistic...

aare

marko91 wrote: »

When is this joke of a decision coming into action?how do they bloody expect us to go on when all we have enough for is food and bills NOTHING else:mad:

Mark,

It may be ok, it may only affect new claims (it seems to, but I don't want to get anyone's hopes up)...

Talk to all your local TD's first thing tomorrow. Follow up with a letter, show up at clinics and talk to them face to face...

Sometimes, people make these decisions just because the genuinely do not realise your particular situation can exist...sometimes, when they do, decisions are reversed or exceptions are made...but not until you tell them.

Oh, and, don't read the negative remarks some people enjoy making...if they knew you, they wouldn't mean you.

ionix5891

Corbin Careful Matchbox wrote: »

This thread stinks of generalisations, it is not benificial to anyone, more tolls here than AH...



While some do spend their money on drink, most spend very little on drink, very little. Those that do spend a lot on drink do not need social welfare, if you know anyone like this, report them.

How it will keep them off the streets? If they want drink they will still spend the money on drink...



Sure there's millions of jobs out there, magic jobs that just appear when you need. Social welfare is only for people who don't want to work... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

This type of tripe is getitng annoying... Where the hell do you think these jobs are going to appear from???

there are hundreds of science, IT and engineering jobs STILL out there

my own company is hiring for example unix sys admins

seriously in the last 10 years the engineering courses and some science ones where practically empty and still are, there is still demand for people with these backgrounds and plenty of opportunities

but alot of students opted/still go for artsy fartsy or commerce courses which are filled to the top and then wonder why they cant get a job in mc donnalds

aare

aare wrote: »

Mark,

It may be ok, it may only affect new claims (it seems to, but I don't want to get anyone's hopes up)...

Talk to all your local TD's first thing tomorrow. Follow up with a letter, show up at clinics and talk to them face to face...

Sometimes, people make these decisions just because the genuinely do not realise your particular situation can exist...sometimes, when they do, decisions are reversed or exceptions are made...but not until you tell them.

Oh, and, don't read the negative remarks some people enjoy making...if they knew you, they wouldn't mean you.

Are you serious?
Read his post.
He has enough money for food and bills,does he want to get some sky digital in aswell?lol

ShooterSF

limericklady87 wrote: »

then wait i suggest isntead of drawing for the rest of your days! thankfully im not looking for one, i am about the complete a 4year law degree which i worked damn hard to get into and at the end of which i will probably be unemployed. I did not receive a grant either as my parents income was slightly over the threshold but i finance myself completely. if i had the option of e100 each week while completing this course, i would have been damn greatful

Wow. I am by no means bleeding heart. But surely you realise not every 19 year old has parents, free roof over the head etc.? If they are willing to still give full dole to those on or applied for FAS courses fair enough but no one without family to mind them can support them on €100.

aare

Jerry Brief Bikini wrote: »

Are you serious?
Read his post.
He has enough money for food and bills,does he want to get some sky digital in aswell?lol

He has enough money for food and bills now...but he won't have when that is halved in 3 weeks time...

...and, I suspect, that is his point, as well as mine.

aare

aare wrote: »

He has enough money for food and bills now...but he won't have when that is halved in 3 weeks time...

...and, I suspect, that is his point, as well as mine.

Then he should get a job,there are plenty going if people are bothered to look.

ShooterSF

Jerry Brief Bikini wrote: »

Then he should get a job,there are plenty going if people are bothered to look.

Ah yes employers are really struggling to fill those vacancies with unemployment at an all time low.

aare

Jerry Brief Bikini wrote: »

Then he should get a job,there are plenty going if people are bothered to look.

Perhaps you would like to post a few links to where those jobs actually are?

Not just for Mark's benefit, but for everybody's...because these boards are full of recently redundant people who apply for EVERYTHING and don't even get interviews..I am sure they would be grateful...

Oh and you might call the ICTU first thing, and let them on the secret too?

rio-rose

Jerry Brief Bikini wrote: »

Then he should get a job,there are plenty going if people are bothered to look.

i agree with the last 2 post on this comment, have a look on the FAS website a hand full of jobs avaible and even them are looking for people who;s qualified in the vacency..

not a great comment to make goose:(

Red Crow

Richard Dower wrote: »

I am going to generalise here!...ok, lets assume those under 20 are thugs and housing estate types, if there dole is cut in half will this increase crime and anti social behaviour?

Or...will it stop them from blowing all there doleon cans and hash ? and keep them off the street?

That is absolutely ludicrous to suggest anything of the sort.

Jamie-b wrote: »

It will make those who are wasters try to get a ob and an education... but at the expense of those who geuinely need and deserve the dole.

Fair statement. Agreed. But then again it gets rid of the spongers. Dole shouldn't be anything near 200E in the first place.

Jah Luff wrote: »

What difference does it make if you are 19 and 20? This is ridiculas I was sturggling to survive on 200 nevermind 100. And how will it encourage people to do courses if there are no courses to do? There is already huge waiting lists for courses. **** them.

I'm going to make a fair point here. There are plenty of college courses that weren't filled up last year. I'm in college and as far as I'm concerned that is completely untrue. This will encourage people like you to get up off your backside and work your way into the world. By the sound of you, your just plain and utterly lazy. Go get yourself a FETAC Level 5. I know Carlow PLC handed them out last year. One word. Lazy.

limericklady87 wrote: »

tbh i dont see many reasons for anyone 18 or 19 to be sitting around on the dole.. i know genuinely there are some that will have lost their jobs but ffs it might encourage some of the school drop-outs/druggies/buggy brigade to think a bit more or do a course and try to make something of themselves...:rolleyes:

Agreed.

Jah Luff wrote: »

Ima go buy me a decent box tomrrow and some nice pastic bag to wear with my lovely 100 euro.

You shouldn't even have a 100 quid in the first place. Get a job. If not go to college get a degree or do a PLC. Again your probably just lazy.

aare wrote: »

Perhaps you would like to post a few links to where those jobs actually are?

Not just for Mark's benefit, but for everybody's...because these boards are full of recently redundant people who apply for EVERYTHING and don't even get interviews..I am sure they would be grateful...

Oh and you might call the ICTU first thing, and let them on the secret too?

Your on the dole I'm guessing?

aare

Kurtza wrote: »

Your on the dole I'm guessing?

You didn't even get that part right, I'm afraid.

googlehead

simple answer if your under 20, go get yourself educated, fas, college etc.
there are ways around it. if your under 20 and sitting around the house and cannot get work, then you know what to do? good decision from the government on that one, if you under 20 and on the dole and doing nothing, well
tough luck.

aare

googlehead wrote: »

simple answer if your under 20, go get yourself educated, fas, college etc.
there are ways around it. if your under 20 and sitting around the house and cannot get work, then you know what to do? good decision from the government on that one, if you under 20 and on the dole and doing nothing, well
tough luck.

What happens if you are under 20 and do not HAVE a supportive family home to sit around? But rather have to find a bedsit and pay the same bills as any other adult...

What then?

gurramok

Young people like this age bracket generally do not vote hence an easy target.

Simple as. If they had bothered to vote, they would of had some input to prevent this.

googlehead

aare wrote: »

What happens if you are under 20 and do not HAVE a supportive family home to sit around? But rather have to find a bedsit and pay the same bills as any other adult...

What then?

sorry, yes if that is the case then that is not easy at all these people should be

helped as much as possible, i am talking more about 18-20year olds who are living with their parents etc. i don't even think they should get 100 euro