Employment question

Phoenix_Rising

My boss has just informed me that my job is gone as and from next Friday. She wasnts to employ me as a contractor two to three days a week instead.

I have never done anything like this. Can anyone tell me what my rights/obligations are as a contractor and if i am entitled to SW on the days i am not working etc.

Also, i have an idea for a business, if i try and set it up ( small time consultancy thing) does that mean i cant claim sw - even though i wouldnt be earning any money from it for awhile - or maybe ever!

Any advice appreciated

Puddleduck

As far as I know if you become self employed you cant claim social welfare. Why dont you do a google search and find out the number of your local welfare office and ask.

I think to recieve SW payment you have to be working under a certain amount of hours.

fabbydabby

http://www.citizensinformation.ie is a very useful website.

You should ensure your employer has given you the correct amount of time as notice of redundancy as it seems to me that this is quite short. Ensure you are being paid the correct amount as a lump sum as well.

I have heard people bitching on Joe Duffy et al about how difficult it is to set up a business when you are effectively broke. check out www.enterpriseireland.ie and www.ida.ie these people will answer any questions you may have and will even give you funding if they feel it worthwhile.

Arcee

Phoenix_Rising wrote: »

My boss has just informed me that my job is gone as and from next Friday. She wasnts to employ me as a contractor two to three days a week instead.

I have never done anything like this. Can anyone tell me what my rights/obligations are as a contractor and if i am entitled to SW on the days i am not working etc.

Also, i have an idea for a business, if i try and set it up ( small time consultancy thing) does that mean i cant claim sw - even though i wouldnt be earning any money from it for awhile - or maybe ever!

Any advice appreciated

Paying you as a contractor is a nice easy way for your employer to avoid giving you any benefits whatsoever, eg, paying into your pension, health insurance etc and for them to handover responsibility for paying tax etc to you rather than having to do it themselves. If I were you I would find out what kind of daily rate contracters in your line of work are getting. I would also calculate the value of the benefits you are losing by being a contractor (the health insurance etc) and ensure you provide for this in the daily rate you charge.

You should probably speak to an accountant who specialises in contractors because you will likely be seen as self employed now and will have to do your own tax returns etc. You may need to register yourself as a business too. There are a ton of things to think about and professional advice is your best bet.

In terms of jobseekers allowance/benefit, if you are available and actively seeking work to fill the remaining days of the week then you should be entitled to claim jobseekers for the days you are not working. You will have to show evidence to the social welfare office that you are actively looking for a job to fill those days.

Having said all that, if you are working as a contractor and are self employed, this will affect your social welfare entitlements but I'm not sure to what extent. Many self employed people are not entitled to jobseekers allowance. It's a big decision to go contracting if you're used to being a PAYE employee. Definitely do some further research.....

Phoenix_Rising

Arcee wrote: »

Paying you as a contractor is a nice easy way for your employer to avoid giving you any benefits whatsoever, eg, paying into your pension, health insurance etc and for them to handover responsibility for paying tax etc to you rather than having to do it themselves. If I were you I would find out what kind of daily rate contracters in your line of work are getting. I would also calculate the value of the benefits you are losing by being a contractor (the health insurance etc) and ensure you provide for this in the daily rate you charge.

You should probably speak to an accountant who specialises in contractors because you will likely be seen as self employed now and will have to do your own tax returns etc. You may need to register yourself as a business too. There are a ton of things to think about and professional advice is your best bet.

In terms of jobseekers allowance/benefit, if you are available and actively seeking work to fill the remaining days of the week then you should be entitled to claim jobseekers for the days you are not working. You will have to show evidence to the social welfare office that you are actively looking for a job to fill those days.

Having said all that, if you are working as a contractor and are self employed, this will affect your social welfare entitlements but I'm not sure to what extent. Many self employed people are not entitled to jobseekers allowance. It's a big decision to go contracting if you're used to being a PAYE employee. Definitely do some further research.....

Thanks for all that, unfortunately in my industry at the moment there is no work at all out there so im kinda stuck accepting whatever my employers will give me.

They are totally trying ( and succeeding) in getting out of their obligations towards me as an employee - which makes me hate them a little bit, but they have me over a barrell and they know it so what can i do...

tbh

Phoenix_Rising wrote: »

Thanks for all that, unfortunately in my industry at the moment there is no work at all out there so im kinda stuck accepting whatever my employers will give me.

They are totally trying ( and succeeding) in getting out of their obligations towards me as an employee - which makes me hate them a little bit, but they have me over a barrell and they know it so what can i do...

you can stick, or twist. I'd guess they have you over a barrel trying to keep the business going, rather than trying to increase their profits.

Mr. Incognito

There are a number of factors that determine whether you have a contract of employment (employed) or a contract for employment (self employed)

It would be hard to see how them simply deciding you are self employed is feasible. A simple Revenue audit would show you are an employee.

Furthermore the business will be liable for interest and penalties for classifying you incorrectly. There are factors such as control of terms/ emplyment hours/ provision of materials etc that are used to test whether you are employed or self employed.

Search for "contract of employment" here and it brings up a handy guide- hope that helps

http://www.revenue.ie/revsearch/search.jsp

dade

they are making your redundant and then hiring you back as a contractor to do the same job right? would that not constitute unfair dismissals? or at least be covered by the act, sacking someone because their position is redundant/no longer exists and hiring someone else to do the same job for less pay etc.

you should ask over in the work and jobs section

Arcee

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

There are a number of factors that determine whether you have a contract of employment (employed) or a contract for employment (self employed)

It would be hard to see how them simply deciding you are self employed is feasible. A simple Revenue audit would show you are an employee.

Furthermore the business will be liable for interest and penalties for classifying you incorrectly. There are factors such as control of terms/ emplyment hours/ provision of materials etc that are used to test whether you are employed or self employed.

Search for "contract of employment" here and it brings up a handy guide- hope that helps

http://www.revenue.ie/revsearch/search.jsp

I reckon the employer is trying to terminate the OP's contract of employment (by firing him I guess - and removing him from their books/payroll) but saying there is still work for him if he's willing to come back as a self-employed contractor, responsible for his own affairs (tax etc).

It's a bit dodgy though because I don't think the OP can just be fired like that, can he? Surely there's a process that must be followed or a least a longer notice period to be given? If he can't be fired then his job would have to be made redundant in which case the employer can't take him on as a contractor because that would be admitting there is still work there in which case redundancy can't be applied?

It's a complex one OP - might be legal as well as accountancy advice you're looking for.

Phoenix_Rising

Arcee wrote: »

I reckon the employer is trying to terminate the OP's contract of employment (by firing him I guess - and removing him from their books/payroll) but saying there is still work for him if he's willing to come back as a self-employed contractor, responsible for his own affairs (tax etc).

It's a bit dodgy though because I don't think the OP can just be fired like that, can he? Surely there's a process that must be followed or a least a longer notice period to be given? If he can't be fired then his job would have to be made redundant in which case the employer can't take him on as a contractor because that would be admitting there is still work there in which case redundancy can't be applied?

It's a complex one OP - might be legal as well as accountancy advice you're looking for.

i have been there less than a year so my employment rights are very limited.

In fact, i would be there a year next week, which is why they are terminating my contract this week. :mad:

My employers argurment is that their own work has completely dried up so they will take over my work and they will farm out the leftovers to me. It is probably worth my while sticking with it in that i dont see my employer working full days long term so im hoping that they will get sick of it after a few months and give me more work.

Funny thing is, i hate this bloody job. Yet here i am fighting to keep onto part of it.

Bloody recession...

Joey the lips

I finished with an employer recently and he wanted to take me back as a contractor. As you have been advised it means your self employed, There is a lot of advantages and disadvantages

Disadvantages: Steady employment etc

Advantages: If you own a company car you can write it off as a company investment over time et

Talk to an accountant. TBH i agree with the poster that said that.

it boils down to 3 things. 1. Are you willing to accept been self employed and proping up your company profits while they have dumped you 2. Are you in a position to loose your job altogether and lastly my deciding point... Do you have more income on the dole or staying at work????

Arcee

Phoenix_Rising wrote: »

i have been there less than a year so my employment rights are very limited.

In fact, i would be there a year next week, which is why they are terminating my contract this week. :mad:

My employers argurment is that their own work has completely dried up so they will take over my work and they will farm out the leftovers to me. It is probably worth my while sticking with it in that i dont see my employer working full days long term so im hoping that they will get sick of it after a few months and give me more work.

Funny thing is, i hate this bloody job. Yet here i am fighting to keep onto part of it.

Bloody recession...

That's a slightly different scenario then. I assumed you were a permanent member of staff. If you are on a one year contract and they are choosing not to renew this/make you permanent then they're probably entitled to proceed as they are doing unfortunately. Not an ideal situation for you but I guess we're all having to make the best of less-than-perfect situations at the moment!

Mr. Incognito

Be very very careful here

Per the Social Welfare Guidelines:

(a) An employee will not be taken to have been dismissed or to be eligible for a redundancy lump-sum payment if his employer renews his contract or re-engages him under a new contract, both with immediate effect, if the provisions of the renewed new contract do not differ from those of the previous contract.

(b) An employer may give an offer in writing to an employee to have his contract renewed or to be re-engaged under a new contract on terms which differ from those of the previous contract. If the new or renewed contract takes effect within 4 weeks from the ending of the previous contract and the employee accepts it, he will not in these circumstances be taken to have been dismissed or be eligible for redundancy payment;

Where an employee has been laid off or kept on short time or a mixture of both either for 4 consecutive weeks or for a broken series of six weeks and where all six weeks occur within a 13 week period the employee if he wishes to claim redundancy payment must serve a written notice stating that he intends to claim because of lay off* or short-time#, or give his employer notice in writing termination his contract of employment. An employee who claims and receives redundancy payment due to lay off or short time is deemed to have voluntarily left his or her employment and therefore is not entitled to notice under the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Acts 1973 to 2001.

*Lay off is where the services of an employee are not required because of lack of work carried out by that employee.

#Short time is where there is a reduction in the amount of work available leading to a reduction in weekly earnings to less than half the normal weekly earnings or a reduction in the hours worked to less than half the normal weekly working hours.

The Corinthian

Phoenix_Rising wrote: »

i have been there less than a year so my employment rights are very limited.

What does your contract say?

My employers argurment is that their own work has completely dried up so they will take over my work and they will farm out the leftovers to me.

Fine - if they want you as a contractor, they should understand that you will have to do your own taxes and you'll have separate overheads, so they can pay you contractor rates. If they don't like that then wish them well and good luck with a competent handover of your work in four days.

Phoenix_Rising

Corinthian - i dont have a contract.

It is easy to say "accept this or ill move on" but the truth is that there arent any other jobs out there in my industry so i dont really have a choice.

I cant seem to get a straight answer regarding social welfare. I have been working and paying stamps since 2000. If i work for my employer for three days a week as a consultant/ contractor can i claim SW for the other two days??

The Corinthian

Phoenix_Rising wrote: »

Corinthian - i dont have a contract.

Why on Earth did you accept a job without any contract? What industry are you in?

It is easy to say "accept this or ill move on" but the truth is that there arent any other jobs out there in my industry so i dont really have a choice.

Of course you have a choice. Look at your options, look at what you'll be on if you take this up, with help from the SW and what you'll be on if simply on SW. Consider how long such part-time work would last and if it is worth your while setting up as a contractor. Then do the maths.

And never give an ultimatum. If I heard an ultimatum I'd show you the door, otherwise I'm inviting blackmail from all my employees. Negotiate. There's a big difference. If you are to be a contractor, then you're no longer an employee, but another business, so start acting like one.

Depending upon your role, knowledge and experience in a particular project, they may well suffer if you are gone tomorrow without any decent handover - enough that an increased rate will be worthwhile for them. Don't underestimate an employee's or supplier's ability to negotiate a better deal.

I cant seem to get a straight answer regarding social welfare. I have been working and paying stamps since 2000. If i work for my employer for three days a week as a consultant/ contractor can i claim SW for the other two days??

FFS, someone linked to the Citizens Info site earlier, and it covers this.

Read what is there. Go into the SW and follow up with specific questions relating to what is there. Then do the maths and decide if it's worthwhile doing part-time work or not, taking into account that you'll potentially lose your PRSI contributions - little point in going part-time for three months and then finding this dries up and you're unemployed but this time only eligible for assistance and not benefit.

Phoenix_Rising

I have asked them to consider keeping me on on a part time basis.

They are discussing it at the moment so hoping for a reply today.

Sick to my stomach at the moment. This much stress is not good for a body...

dudara

Moved to Work Problems

dudara

wasper

Phoenix_Rising wrote: »

My boss has just informed me that my job is gone as and from next Friday. She wasnts to employ me as a contractor two to three days a week instead.

I have never done anything like this. Can anyone tell me what my rights/obligations are as a contractor and if i am entitled to SW on the days i am not working etc.

Also, i have an idea for a business, if i try and set it up ( small time consultancy thing) does that mean i cant claim sw - even though i wouldnt be earning any money from it for awhile - or maybe ever!

Any advice appreciated

This is all very nice for your employer. Do you know the methods of payment? Is it weekly, bi-weekly or monthly. And if she declares bankruptcy you become a creditor & lose out. Also when you submit an invoice for your services, she might decide to pay a month after.