Eoin Morgan called up to England 20/20 World Cup Squad

KevIRL

Strauss will miss World Twenty20
Andrew Strauss
Strauss led England to a one-day series win in the West Indies last week

England skipper Andrew Strauss has been left out of a provisional 30-man squad for the ICC World Twenty20 tournament.

National selector Geoff Miller said Strauss was "better suited" to Test and 50-overs cricket.

A captain for the tournament, which begins on 1 June and which England will host, will not be named until a new team director is in place.

The squad includes five players yet to be capped by England - Joe Denly, Chris Woakes, Adil Rashid and Graham Napier.

Miller praised Strauss for an "outstanding tour" of the West Indies, and said he was "focused" on the Test and ODI formats.

He continued: "The selectors have decided against naming a captain for the ICC World Twenty20 at this stage because we feel it is important to comprehensively review the recent tour of the Caribbean and seek input from all relevant parties including the incoming England team director who is yet to be appointed.



Strauss's predecessor Kevin Pietersen is sure to be one of the names in the frame, although he has already indicated he feels it is too soon for him to take on the job again after quitting as captain in January after a rift with then coach Peter Moores.

Pietersen has, however, accepted the job of skippering Royal Challengers Bangalore in the Indian Premier League, which begins later this month.

Other possibilities to lead England in the World Twenty20 would be Paul Collingwood and Andrew Flintoff, who have also led the team in the past.

Chris Woakes
Woakes played for England in last year's Under-19 World Cup

Of the new faces in the squad, Denly and Morgan were part of the Kent and Middlesex teams which won the 2007 and 2008 domestic Twenty20 Cup competitions, and Morgan also has international experience with Ireland, while Napier's efforts for Essex have won him an IPL contract with Mumbai Indians.

Yorkshire's Rashid was part of England's squad on the tour of the Caribbean, which ended on Friday, without making an appearance, while Woakes, from Warwickshire, is the youngest member of the squad at the age of 20.

The selectors have named three wicketkeepers in the squad with Essex's James Foster, who has not played international cricket for seven years, joining Matt Prior and Steven Davies.

There are also places for 40-year-old Middlesex skipper Shaun Udal and Notts all-rounder Samit Patel, who was recently left out of the squad for the Caribbean after "failing to reach acceptable standards of fitness for international cricket".

"We have a wealth of talented players in the 30-man squad who have proved themselves adept at limited overs cricket so there are several options for the selectors to consider before reducing the squad to 15 players at the start of next month," said Miller.

"We have an encouraging blend of experience and youth in this preliminary squad including a number of uncapped players who will be eager to make their international debut at home during what promises to be an fantastic tournament in June."

England squad: K Ali, J Anderson, G Batty, I Bell, R Bopara, T Bresnan, S Broad, P Collingwood, S Davies, J Denly, J Foster, A Flintoff, S Harmison, R Key, S Mahmood, D Mascarenhas, E Morgan, G Napier, S Patel, K Pietersen, L Plunkett, M Prior, A Rashid, O Shah, R Sidebottom, G Swann, C Tremlett, S Udal, C Woakes, L Wright.

Marshy

Bad news from an Irish perspective. He'd be one of the most experienced 20-20 players in the team having been involved with Middlesex.

Does this mean he can't be selected for Ireland now or can he be selected if he's dropped fom the England squad when they narrow it down?

I guess it's good news Niall O'Brien wasn't snapped up as well.

TrueDub

Marshy wrote: »

Bad news from an Irish perspective. He'd be one of the most experienced 20-20 players in the team having been involved with Middlesex.

Does this mean he can't be selected for Ireland now or can he be selected if he's dropped fom the England squad when they narrow it down?

The latter, to the best of my knowledge.

partyguinness

Why would we want a player with such a loose attitude to national allegiance?

KevIRL

partyguinness wrote: »

Why would we want a player with such a loose attitude to national allegiance?

Not this again please. We've had the debate with Ed Joyce choosing to play for England.

Ireland do not have test status and are unlikely to get for a long time. Naturally players want to play cricket at the highest level (ie test matches) so they will play for England if selected.

Granted this squad is not a test squad, but Eoin could use it to set down a marker for a possible test squad place. No right minded Irish cricket fan would begrudge Eoin his shot at this

Marshy

TrueDub wrote: »

The latter, to the best of my knowledge.

Good well let's hope he doesn't quite make the next cut then.

KevIRL wrote: »

Ireland do not have test status and are unlikely to get for a long time. Naturally players want to play cricket at the highest level (ie test matches) so they will play for England if selected.

Granted this squad is not a test squad, but Eoin could use it to set down a marker for a possible test squad place. No right minded Irish cricket fan would begrudge Eoin his shot at this

Yeah that's right, one can't blame him for aspiring to reach the top level.

That said it does leave Ireland in a difficult situation. They've had problems with the counties before though in terms of players being available.

partyguinness

KevIRL wrote: »

Not this again please. We've had the debate with Ed Joyce choosing to play for England.

Ireland do not have test status and are unlikely to get for a long time. Naturally players want to play cricket at the highest level (ie test matches) so they will play for England if selected.

Granted this squad is not a test squad, but Eoin could use it to set down a marker for a possible test squad place. No right minded Irish cricket fan would begrudge Eoin his shot at this

My point remains..clearly loyalty/national identity is of no relevance.

True because most cricket supporters are English anyway..;)

I understand why players want to reach the top level in their chosen sport but let them do that through their club.Even allowing for if he wanted to play test cricket fair enough but the icc should step in and ensure he doesn't get to play for England in the 20/20 do they want cricket to grow to outside the elite few or not?

How is cricket ever meant to develop as a worldwide sport if this sort of carry on is allowed to continue?

Anyway there is a bit of bad blood there so I'd expect Phil Simmons mightn't be too dissapointed

Marshy

partyguinness wrote: »

My point remains..clearly loyalty/national identity is of no relevance.

I'll ignore the second part of your post. The bottom line is that Irish cricket is a largely amateur set-up. We play a limited number of internationals each year and only ever a few against top opposition.

Eoin Morgan himself is a professional player with Middlesex and has been based over there now for a few years now and thus qualifies for England. Playing for them gives him the chance to fulfil his potential at the pinnacle of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the best Irish players playing cricket for Ireland as opposed to England but in truth the game here just isn't developed enough yet for that to happen.

randomer

partyguinness wrote: »

My point remains..clearly loyalty/national identity is of no relevance.

Would you have the same attitude towards someone who goes abroad to find work?

randomer

partyguinness wrote: »

Why would we want a player with such a loose attitude to national allegiance?

Because he is incredibly talented and adds a lot of value to the team.

partyguinness

randomer wrote: »

Would you have the same attitude towards someone who goes abroad to find work?

How is working abroad that the same as:-

a. Wearing a English (or whatever) national jersey;
b. Adopting/standing/singing a foreign National anthem;
c. Effectively turning your back on the country you were born and raised for personal profit and glory.

I can fully appreciate the desire to play at the very top but its just a bit depressing that someone (and of course I dont know him personally) can trade their nationality like a commodity. It think this come under the definition of a mercenary.

For me, it doesnt say a lot about the moral fibre of the person.

randomer

partyguinness wrote: »

How is working abroad that the same as:-

a. Wearing a English (or whatever) national jersey;
b. Adopting/standing/singing a foreign National anthem;
c. Effectively turning your back on the country you were born and raised for personal profit and glory.

I can fully appreciate the desire to play at the very top but its just a bit depressing that someone (and of course I dont know him personally) can trade their nationality like a commodity. It think this come under the definition of a mercenary.

For me, it doesnt say a lot about the moral fibre of the person.

You are entitled to your opinion, you are wrong, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Making comments about the moral fibre of people whom you do not know is completely wrong, and is out of order.

Both Eoin and Ed are professional cricketers. They do not have the opportunity to ply their trade in their home country as there is not a market here for their skill set. Therefore they have both moved to England to play in the english county championship.

The next step in their career progression is test cricket. Unfortunately Ireland do not play test cricket, and for these guys to make the step to the next level requires them to play for England.

TrueDub

Lads,

Seriously, don't feed the troll.

partyguinness

randomer wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion, you are wrong, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Making comments about the moral fibre of people whom you do not know is completely wrong, and is out of order.

Both Eoin and Ed are professional cricketers. They do not have the opportunity to ply their trade in their home country as there is not a market here for their skill set. Therefore they have both moved to England to play in the english county championship.

The next step in their career progression is test cricket. Unfortunately Ireland do not play test cricket, and for these guys to make the step to the next level requires them to play for England.

How am I wrong? and this is no troll and saying that I am trolling is worthy of an infraction.

So why do they not try to bring Ireland up to international test cricket standard by playing for Ireland thereby setting an example for youngsters playing cricket in Ireland? Would that not be honourable and right thing to do...probably but thats no good for the bank account which is what it all comes down to and that is depressing.. Irish cricket has no chance if this continues.

If I was lying on my deathbed I know what would give me more satisfaction...helping to develop cricket in Ireland and doing the very best for my country for the good of Irish cricket or selling out to a another country for personal glory and fame.

Sorry if this is harsh..but its the truth even if nobody else wants to admit it.

Royale with Cheese

Is there anybody that actually knows anything about cricket that is completely opposed to this?

It sucks, but Ireland are never going to be a test team, and it's completely unfair to ask players to limit themselves to county cricket if they're capable of playing at international level.

The only thing I can think of is to change the rules for Irish players playing for England, so that they can easily switch back if they don't make it. Maybe a year after their last game for England they're eligble for Ireland again. Although actually making it easier for Irish players to decide they want to play for England, it would enable Ireland to reclaim them traitors that went off to play for the enemy.

partyguinness

Look at all the talented Irish sportsmen and women throughout the years who never made it to World Cups, Olympic medals etc because the team was not good enough or the funding was not there..but they stood by their country and sacrificed personal fame and glory...

What if Johnny Giles, Liam Brady decided to play for England because they qualified for every World Cup...or Mary Cullen or Sonia O'Sullivan declared for the US because of better funding..therefore better chance fo Olympic medals...or if Brian O'Driscoll the entire Munster front 5 moved to England because they would have a better chance of winning medals at the rugby world cup??

Where would Irish Rugby or soccer or Irish sport be then? Nowhere.

Best of luck to the 2 lads and I hope they get what they want...I just cant understand how they can look at themselves in the mirror with their English jersey on.

loosecannon

i know this probably isn't the best idea and wouldn't go down well from any perspective but what about the possibility that he is allowed to play test cricket for england but whilst Ireland remain a ODI status side he plays his ODI & 20/20's for Ireland

i know there is flawed logic behind it but I would be interested to see what Partyguinness thinks of that considering Ireland will almost certainly never play test cricket (on a slight sidenote, this would at least ensure that Ireland get their very best XI out in all the major tournaments! - also sidenote this idea will never ever happen!)


also fwiw it's a complete no brainer decision for lads like Ed & Eoin who I have no doubt have immense pride in wearing the Irish cricket jersey, it is literally the only way they will ever play at the very top level.....even if my above idea came to pass Ireland currently play around 5-10 competive ODI's a year whereas England would play up to 100 days of competitive cricket a year inc all test,ODI's & 20/20's

I'll give two comparisions to help prove my point - a rugby player from Northern Ireland who feels he is British and does not want to play for a team called Ireland therefore never getting to play international rugby
or a Basketballer from Ireland representing the United States in the Olympics & World Championships despite being 100% Irish he has played in the NBA for a few years and qualified to play for the USA - despite feeling hugely Irish, Ireland's basketball team never have (or never will as far as I know) play in an Olympics etc so this is his only chance

comments partyguinness?

randomer

partyguinness wrote: »

So why do they not try to bring Ireland up to international test cricket standard by playing for Ireland thereby setting an example for youngsters playing cricket in Ireland?

Johnny Giles, Liam Brady and Sonia O'Sullivan???

They all left Ireland in order to further their career, and I applaud them for doing this.

Also, Sonia O'Sullivan is a bad example for your argument; try reading this article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/4645982.stm

partyguinness

randomer wrote: »

Johnny Giles, Liam Brady and Sonia O'Sullivan???

They all left Ireland in order to further their career, and I applaud them for doing this.

Also, Sonia O'Sullivan is a bad example for your argument; try reading this article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/4645982.stm

I think you missed my point..yes of course they went abroad and nothing wrong with that whatsoever but they didnt play or represent their adopted countries (Sonia O'Sullivan accepted but that doesnt detract from my point generally and I think injury ruled her out anyway).

I just have issues that they (Ed & Eoin) are setting a bad example for Irish cricket.

"Oh well, the standard in Ireland is not good enough, sure we can just play for England." I just dont like it.

Sure I have a very black and white attitude but surely you should play the cards you are dealt with i.e. play for Ireland even if this is a lower standard.

The rugby analogy re being from NI and not wanting to play for Ireland...important to note that there is no British Rugby team...to play for.

Royale with Cheese

partyguinness wrote: »

"Oh well, the standard in Ireland is not good enough, sure we can just play for England." I just dont like it.

It's not that the standard isn't good enough, it's that the standard doesn't exist, and never will. Until you realise and admit that nobody on this forum is going to pay any attention to anything you have to say on this matter.

randomer

partyguinness wrote: »

I think you missed my point..yes of course they went abroad and nothing wrong with that whatsoever but they didnt play or represent their adopted countries (Sonia O'Sullivan accepted but that doesnt detract from my point generally and I think injury ruled her out anyway).

I just have issues that they (Ed & Eoin) are setting a bad example for Irish cricket.

"Oh well, the standard in Ireland is not good enough, sure we can just play for England." I just dont like it.

Sure I have a very black and white attitude but surely you should play the cards you are dealt with i.e. play for Ireland even if this is a lower standard.

The rugby analogy re being from NI and not wanting to play for Ireland...important to note that there is no British Rugby team...to play for.

It is not a matter of being a lower standard. It is a different sport.

Ireland do not play test cricket. They are an associate country rather than a full test playing nation. If Ireland played test cricket and these guys chose to play for a better team then your argument may have a small bit of merit. They don't and it doesn't.

Do you have any comments about Trent Johnston, Andre Botha et al?

partyguinness

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

It's not that the standard isn't good enough, it's that the standard doesn't exist, and never will. Until you realise and admit that nobody on this forum is going to pay any attention to anything you have to say on this matter.

Why then are you quoting me if nobody is paying any attention?

Is it beacuse I am the only one who refuses to ignore the elephant in the room?

randomer

partyguinness wrote: »

Why then are you quoting me if nobody is paying any attention?

Is it beacuse I am the only one who refuses to ignore the elephant in the room?

Dude, you are three years too late! This was all discussed before when Ed first got called up to the England squad.

You have to realise that comparing cricket and soccer is not compairing apples with apples. Test cricket is a restricted sport. Ireland do not compete in test cricket. Therefore if the guys want to compete at the top level, which many believe test cricket is, then they have to play for another country.

partyguinness

randomer wrote: »

It is not a matter of being a lower standard. It is a different sport.

Ireland do not play test cricket. They are an associate country rather than a full test playing nation. If Ireland played test cricket and these guys chose to play for a better team then your argument may have a small bit of merit. They don't and it doesn't.

Do you have any comments about Trent Johnston, Andre Botha et al?

TBH I do and my stance is no different from Eoin & Ed..but I dont want to start that debate. I guess I have a more staunch attitude when it come to representing ones country and that is not going to change so we are getting nowhere. I have made my points on the matter.:)

jasonb

randomer wrote: »

Ireland do not play test cricket.

Just want to get clarification about this. I don't know a lot about Cricket in Ireland, but I thought during the last World Cup that the advantage of Ireland getting to the Super 8s, and beating other Test Teams ( Pakistan and Bangladesh if I remember correctly ), is that we'd then get to play Test cricket? If so, shouldn't we be now playing Test Cricket?

J.

randomer

jasonb wrote: »

Just want to get clarification about this. I don't know a lot about Cricket in Ireland, but I thought during the last World Cup that the advantage of Ireland getting to the Super 8s, and beating other Test Teams ( Pakistan and Bangladesh if I remember correctly ), is that we'd then get to play Test cricket? If so, shouldn't we be now playing Test Cricket?

J.

It was One Day International status rather than test status.

jasonb

Ah, I see! Thanks for clearing that up! So, have Ireland played many ODIs since the World Cup?

J.

Cremated

I also am quite new to the game, only started to watch cricket since the World Cup, and have been watching it very often since,

so excuse the question I am about to ask ,


but how can England just call up a player that is born in Ireland and have him play for the English?,

and being in a competition that Ireland also are involved in, and if he plays for the English does that make him inegible for Ireland for the next 3/4 years?...

randomer

Cremated wrote: »

I also am quite new to the game, only started to watch cricket since the World Cup, and have been watching it very often since,

so excuse the question I am about to ask ,


but how can England just call up a player that is born in Ireland and have him play for the English?,

and being in a competition that Ireland also are involved in, and if he plays for the English does that make him inegible for Ireland for the next 3/4 years?...

The same way Ireland can "just call up" a player who was born in England, or Australia or South Africa etc.

http://in.yimg.com/icccricket/pdfs/player_eligibility.pdf



I believe it is four years after the last appearance for their adopted country they can play for their original country.

Cremated

Thanks for clearing that up, so we could call Kevin Pietersen up if we wanted?, or am I picking what you said up wrong ...

randomer

Cremated wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up, so we could call Kevin Pietersen up if we wanted?, or am I picking what you said up wrong ...

If he moved to Ireland and fulfilled all the qualifications, then yes.

Remember he is South African and has qualified to play for England based on his mothers place of birth.

Marshy

Cremated wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up, so we could call Kevin Pietersen up if we wanted?, or am I picking what you said up wrong ...

Only if he became a resident here for 4 years.

Helix

delighted for him

played against him a rake of times and he always had the potential to play at the highest level

dereko1969

I'm glad for him, however I hope that if he does make the squad for the World Cup that England actually use him so that he at least gets some games out of it rather than just being a loss to us. Unfortunately he's probably our most experienced 20/20 player so it would be a real loss for us. Great knock by him yesterday too, really patient to begin with which was just what was needed.

We shouldn't feed the trolls especially someone that has never commented on cricket before this non-issue came up. I wonder would the same attitude prevail if he was called up by Australia or South Africa, methinks not.

d'Oracle

Am I the only person who is pissed off at the fact that they picked him, yet they don't really need him?

The only reason I can think of for him to be picked is that he is in good touch through the qualifiers.

Their top order is bristling after last years T20.
Denly, Key, Napier (possibility of him being a flash in the pan notwithstanding), Bopara. All cracking openers.

Shah, Pietersen and Flintoff will all be in, if fit.
I Hope we can have him if he is cut.....

loosecannon

very very good article on the whole thing here

http://content.cricinfo.com/wt202009/content/current/story/398710.html

ray torrens comes across especially well.....and i think this helps explain the situation for anyone who might not understand it (Partyguinness etc)

Ireland frustration at Morgan call

Will Luke in Johannesburg


Ireland knew it was coming, but the announcement yesterday that Eoin Morgan, their prized and gifted batsman who was chosen in England's ICC World Twenty20 squad, has nevertheless left Ireland feeling helpless and a victim of their own success. England's 19th county is proving to be a goldmine of talent.

That it should have happened in the middle of the World Cup Qualifiers was an irony not lost on the team's manager, Roy Torrens. Just when the ICC's showcase event for Associate cricket is in full swing, one of their most talented jewels is stolen away by a Full Member and its fat wallet. The ICC is desperate to expose their undoubtedly impressive commitment to Associate cricket, yet the timing of Morgan's pick-pocketing by England could hardly have been worse, on the day he stroked a chanceless 84 in Ireland's thumping win over Canada.

"He's made no secret of that fact [wanting to play Test cricket]. So you know, it's not totally unexpected to us," Torrens told Cricinfo in Johannesburg. "We realise this is always going to be a problem with our better players playing in England. We just have to suck it and see."

Morgan has always held high ambitions to play Test cricket, a format of the game which Ireland simply cannot afford him. "With the help of ICC funding we're in a position this year that we might be able to contract some of our players at home. But it's going to be a long way down the line before we can ever compete with what these guys would earn across the water," Torrens said.

"It irks us. Of course it does. We've put a lot of money into under-age cricket and development, and we bring young lads up from 13 years of age and send them away to [the Port Elizabeth academy]. And then to suddenly see a county come along and pop them from us, you know…for the foreseeable future we're going to be in a position where we'll lose our best players.

"How ironic was it when we went to the 2007 World Cup and we had Ed Joyce playing against us. At the time, England weren't doing awfully well. Relatively speaking, we were doing quite well. And the reporters were asking us how we could justify playing three Aussies and a South African in our team. Yet Ed Joyce opens the batting against us!"

Ireland and Scotland's position is unique among Associates. Both teams, but particularly Ireland, have players contracted by English counties. Boyd Rankin turns out for Warwickshire; Gary Wilson for Surrey; Niall O'Brien keeps wicket for Northamptonshire and William Porterfield, who smashed 101 last week against Scotland, plays for Gloucestershire. Their involvement in a higher level of cricket has led to an upsurge in standard for Ireland, undoubtedly the favourites in this competition, whose allround cricket has improved year-on-year. Yet at the moment it is England, not Ireland, who are reaping the benefits.

Torrens may be unflappably resigned to Ireland's predicament, yet it is a cruel position his team finds itself in. Ireland, who have qualified for the ICC World Twenty20, will yet again be missing one of their key performers. Like Morgan, Rankin's involvement in county cricket has seen him develop from a giant twig into a frightening fast bowler. The influence of Allan Donald at Warwickshire, however brief, is the sort of tutelage Ireland simply cannot afford him.

"I suppose in the near future, it's of a benefit to us because they're going across to the counties, and won't have reached the stage where they'll play for England, so their improvement will benefit Ireland in the initial term," Torrens said. Yet the stories of Morgan and Ed Joyce are never too far from his mind. "Wait 'til you hear this one. In June 2006, Middlesex released Ed Joyce to play for England against Ireland in Belfast. Because Joyce was picked and playing for England, Middlesex then called in Eoin Morgan to play for Middlesex. So not only did we have Joyce playing against us, but we lost Morgan to play for Middlesex. It was a double whammy.

"As they say, it could only happen in Ireland. You can see where we're coming from; we feel as though we're getting the raw end of the stick the whole time."

There is no end in sight, however, for these talented players migrating to England before forsaking their birth country with the realistic hope of playing Test cricket. For the time being, Ireland are effectively the ECB's 19th county - "a breeding ground," Torrens put it, "because we have quite a good development system in place."

"What we would have liked is perhaps a bit more understanding from the counties regarding release of players for tournaments. We've had to play [without] Morgan, Joyce, Rankin and others at times. So we'd have thought, or hoped, that when we needed them to represent their country they might have been automatically released. When Niall O'Brien was with Kent, he wasn't available for some of the tournaments we'd have liked him to play in. So that's when we get annoyed and frustrated, when the counties don't play ball with us.

"But certainly as a cricketing country, we don't hold anything against the players. If you have the ability and the chance is given to you, then go for it. We don't like it, but we have to put up with it."

d'Oracle

Still waiting for Ed Joyce to make his test debut........

Its English sport in general though.
Its just easier to get away with in Cricket.

Washout

Is there any complaints to the fact that Ireland has australian and south african born players in the team?


what about the endless of english born players who have played for ireland at international soccer level based on the grandfather rule... is there complaints on that score as well?

Someone wants to play sports at the highest level and will not achieve that playing for Ireland. I for one wish him all the best and hope he succeeds.

TheDrog

Washout wrote: »

Is there any complaints to the fact that Ireland has australian and south african born players in the team?


what about the endless of english born players who have played for ireland at international soccer level based on the grandfather rule... is there complaints on that score as well?

Someone wants to play sports at the highest level and will not achieve that playing for Ireland. I for one wish him all the best and hope he succeeds.

seconded.

also eoin morgan has a decent chance of being selected by enlgand he was one of the top performers in the twenty20 last season

d'Oracle

Washout wrote: »

Is there any complaints to the fact that Ireland has australian and south african born players in the team?


what about the endless of english born players who have played for ireland at international soccer level based on the grandfather rule... is there complaints on that score as well?

Someone wants to play sports at the highest level and will not achieve that playing for Ireland. I for one wish him all the best and hope he succeeds.

You do realise that your examples do nothing to back up your point?
Particularly the Soccer one. Its an erroneous point. The players who played for ROI were either not good enough for England or elected to play for Ireland for some other reason.

I don't blame Morgan, nor do I blame Joyce.
But this is unfair for Ireland Cricket and Ireland supporters. I dont see Joyce playing Test cricket, he isn't even in the ODI squads.

Morgan has been picked purely on T20 Performance and will be discarded after that.

TheDrog

d'Oracle wrote: »

You do realise that your examples do nothing to back up your point?
Particularly the Soccer one. Its an erroneous point. The players who played for ROI were either not good enough for England or elected to play for Ireland for some other reason.

I don't blame Morgan, nor do I blame Joyce.
But this is unfair for Ireland Cricket and Ireland supporters. I dont see Joyce playing Test cricket, he isn't even in the ODI squads.

Morgan has been picked purely on T20 Performance and will be discarded after that.

If that was the case then he wouldn't have been selected for the england lions squad's tour of new zealand. joyce hasn't played test cricket but hasn't given up that's one of the reasons he moved to sussex

Gyalist

No doubt partyguinness will be delighted to learn that an Irishman - one Thomas Patrick Horan (born in Midleton) - played for Australia in the very first Test match in 1877 against England in a game won by Australia.

TrueDub

Gyalist wrote: »

No doubt partyguinness will be delighted to learn that an Irishman - one Thomas Patrick Horan (born in Midleton) - played for Australia in the very first Test match in 1877 against England in a game won by Australia.

And that there have been 13 men who played test cricket for two different countries, 4 of whom played for Australia v England in one match, and for England v Australia in another.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283699.html

Cremated

Thanks for clearing that up, just a couple more questions if you dont mind ,

what are the chances of Morgan playing in the 20/20?, does he want to play for them over Ireland at the World Cup 20/20?,

and if he doesn't make an appearance on the field for England does that count against him playing for Ireland in the next four years?...

TrueDub

Cremated wrote: »

what are the chances of Morgan playing in the 20/20?, does he want to play for them over Ireland at the World Cup 20/20?,

His chances of making the England XI and getting playing time aren't great, I think. His chances of making the squad and thus being unavailable for Ireland are reasonable. As regards his wishes, he wants to play test cricket, and so cannot turn down a request from England to play in their 20/20 squad, as it could be a stepping-stone.

Cremated wrote: »

if he doesn't make an appearance on the field for England does that count against him playing for Ireland in the next four years?...

I'm not sure whether being named in the squad is enough to prevent him playing for Ireland subsequently or not. If he does take the field, he's then committed to England for as long as they want him, plus 4 years.

The worst scenario of all, from both Ireland's and Eoin's point of view, is that he's named in the England squad but doesn't get to play. He then carries drinks for England when he could have been batting at 3 for Ireland.

dereko1969

Well he hasn't been named in the England Performance Squad so at least that's a bit helpful, if he does get picked in their 15 they better use him, there'd be nothing worse than as truedub says him carrying drinks and not being used by us.

Cremated

Ah cheers for the help there, but one last question, someone else mentioned this earlier, why do England need to call him up?, would they not have sufficient players already?,

seems unfair them calling up one of our better players, but the lad wants Test Cricket, I wouldn't begrudge him that ...

TheDrog

he was one of middlesex's best players in a side that won the twenty20 last year and toured with the England lions. so it's no suprise that he's been called up

waterville72

Firstly can I say to you ppl who use the term troll to have a little respect for both sides of the argument.
I dont play cricket myself but I have a close relation who plays firsts and underage for Ireland so I am a supporter.
Firstly I can understand why Ed Joyce , Niall O'Brien and Eoin Morgan want to play test cricket. Its the highest level in the sport and financially it can be far more rewarding hence greater financial security.
In making their decision Im sure they looked at the consequences of their action to Ireland...
1. Ireland will be greatly diminished in the next one day world cup without their services . This is a sport where we are 9th in the world and as you all know we beat a top side in Pakistan last time, Who is to say that with these players playing fro us we wouldnt reach a semi next time around or even a final?
2. Ireland will NEVER reach test status without these players. I know most of you think that we will never get there with or without them but Id be more optimistic than most..look at the emergence of a team like Munster over a ten year peiod..its possible! New Zealand are there.
3. The current Irish team will only decline going forward as more and more of our young players will see their actions as the way to go( this is happening ..believe me!). Many young cricketers want to declare for England.

So what these people have done is weighed up the consequences and in the end thay have put their own interests( financial included) ahead of those of Irish Cricket and Irish Cricket supporters.
Now you can dress it up anyway you want but ultimately that is selfish.

Finally even if you do think its ok to declare for other countries in order to play Test Cricket (and I dont) these guys choose to declare for England! After all thats gone on historically in our fight for Independence(only received 88 years ago). The sacrifice made by countless thousands and the persecution of Irish people over hundreds of years. Amazing.

You see if these guys had any sense of the suffering caused by England to the people of Ireland they wouldnt pull on the white jersey of England.

Unfortunately the reality is that cricket in Ireland is predominantly( and I said predominantly) played by middle class people. And for whatever reason middle class people dont feel that hurt and sense of nationalism as people from a working class backround do. Of course they will say that they do but do you? Do you feel it in your guts? I dont think they do because if they did they wouldnt pull on an England jersey in a million years..financial security or not.
"God save our grascious Queen, Long Live our glorious Queen!..

Im sorry but how they pull that jersey on is beyond me.

TrueDub

Just because you're on the opposite side of the argument doesn't mean you're not a troll...