A dilema!! Pro-lifers!! HELP!!

Stones85

I'm asking this question to people who are like myself, anti-abortion, because I know what the pro-choice people will say to my dilema.

Here goes......
A female friend of mine is about to go to England for an abortion. Her bf is encouraging it, this guy has a kid already with an ex and they had an abortion in the past as well.

Her reasons are that she's almost finished Uni, and the bf may be going to jail on minor drug charges, its not for certain. And although she hasn't told her family she has convinced herself that they will kick her out. She is leaving for England this weekend coming or the 1 after.

My question: Should I anonomously tipp off her family and hope to God they convince her to not kill her child?

orestes

It's none of your business.

Mena

orestes wrote: »

It's none of your business.

Can't put it any clearer than that. Nothing to do with you so drop it.

Stones85

This is where the dilema is..... on the 1 hand everyone has freewill to do as they please, on the other, there is a human being who's life is about to be derminated in any number of horrific ways, there's a possibility to save that life?

Nevyn

Are going to offer to take and rear that child yourself?
I didn't think so, it is not your place to betray her confidence.

If people want to debate the ins and outs and rationales do with abortion then
start a thread in the humanities forum.

cafecolour

Tipping off the parents is definitely not the way to go.

Have YOU tried convincing her not to? Do you know anyone that might want to adopt the child if she were to have it, and you convince them to sign/arrange some sort of legal agreement about it? Or how about yourself, would you adopt and take responsibility for the child were she to have it?

Stones85

orestes wrote: »

No there isn't.

That your personal opinion.

Listen I know exactly what pro-choice/abortion minded people think, I'm not asking for their view.

I know pro-lifers are few and far between here, but what do you think?

Stones85

Thaedydal wrote: »

Are going to offer to take and rear that child yourself?
I didn't think so, it is not your place to betray her confidence.

If people want to debate the ins and outs and rationales do with abortion then
start a thread in the humanities forum.

Not debating the rights and wrongs of killing the unborn.

Just weather or not I should tell her family to save a childs life...

Stones85

Stones85 wrote: »

I'm asking this question to people who are like myself, anti-abortion, because I know what the pro-choice people will say to my dilema.

Here goes......
A female friend of mine is about to go to England for an abortion. Her bf is encouraging it, this guy has a kid already with an ex and they had an abortion in the past as well.

Her reasons are that she's almost finished Uni, and the bf may be going to jail on minor drug charges, its not for certain. And although she hasn't told her family she has convinced herself that they will kick her out. She is leaving for England this weekend coming or the 1 after.

My question: Should I anonomously tipp off her family and hope to God they convince her to not kill her child?

Not unless you plan to mind the child and bring it up yourself and pay any expenses for it , etc etc. Otherwise it's none of your business and keep your nose out. Don't get a girl kicked out by her family, that's not being a "friend".
If the bf is going to jail and she is having family trouble and now a crisis pregnancy she needs support not judgement and you being two-faced and going behind her back to get her into trouble with her family deliberately is not helpful at all.

MarkR

The lady has made a decision after weighing up her options. I think you should mind your own business.

Your issue is that you don't agree with her, either on religious or moral grounds. But these are your grounds, which don't apply to others. You can only use them to judge yourself.

sardineta

Stones85 wrote: »

My question: Should I anonomously tipp off her family and hope to God they convince her to not kill her child?

Absolutely not. You should identify those agencies that can suggest alternatives to her and give her the option to visit them should she choose.

Nevyn

Stones85 wrote: »

Not debating the rights and wrongs of killing the unborn.

Then please stop using emotive and provoking terms.

Stones85 wrote: »

Just weather or not I should tell her family

If she wished her family to know she would tell them, it is not your place to do so.

LegacyUser

I`ve been in a similar situation with a friend once. it doesn`t sound like she`s doing it for the right reasons and she needs to give herself time (without her bf pressurising her). And her family really could suprise her like my friends did,of course they were upset but it brought them closer in the end. Seen that happen a good few times. So my answer is yes interveen before she makes a mistake that i`m sure she`ll regret (more that her blatantly unsuitable choice of parterner).

Hope this helps!

Phlann

You should definitely tell them.

When I found out my friend was using the contraceptive pill I made a point of sending a strongly worded letter to her family and the parish priest condemning her for it.

We strung her up that very afternoon! Hallelujah!!

Nevyn

Phlann Unhelpful and off-topic posting will get you banned from this forum.
Do take time to read the charter which contains the rules and abide by them.
Have a nice day.
Thaedydal

Unregistered

Unregistered wrote: »

I`ve been in a similar situation with a friend once. it doesn`t sound like she`s doing it for the right reasons and she needs to give herself time (without her bf pressurising her). And her family really could suprise her like my friends did,of course they were upset but it brought them closer in the end. Seen that happen a good few times. So my answer is yes interveen before she makes a mistake that i`m sure she`ll regret (more that her blatantly unsuitable choice of parterner).

Hope this helps!

Ok or it might get a girl cut off from her family with no support and possibly a baby on the way before she can finish uni. All because OP wanted to interfere. If the girl feels her reasons are enough for her then that's it and judging her partner has no relevance in this discussion.
If OP wants to actually help OP should point the girl toward agencies who can help and suggest counselling so girl is happy with whatever decision she makes.

CathyMoran

I would be pro-life (except when the mothers life is at risk) but unfortunatly I do not think that you can do anything here except support your friend after the abortion, you could also just inform your friend of positive options www.positiveoptions.ie She needs your sympathy, not you going behind her back when she is at her weakest.

Eric Cartman

Phlann wrote: »

You should definitely tell them.

When I found out my friend was using the contraceptive pill I made a point of sending a strongly worded letter to her family and the parish priest condemning her for it.

We strung her up that very afternoon! Hallelujah!!

very unhelpful,


OP dont you dare tell her family, its her life not yours, it doesnt matter what descision shes made, its none of your business , even if you do tell the family you may stop the faetus being removed but im willing to bet she wont be much of a friend to you anymore

SarahSassy

The Xmas before last a friend on mine was in touch and she was upset becuase she was pg and her live in bf didnt want her to have it cos it was not a good time. She was 32 and he was 35....

She had had an abortion when 18 and circumstances were much different. She was distraught but was afraid to lose him. I listened for about 2 weeks but when she asked me my opinion, I told her that I would not do it.. She wanted the baby but was thinking about abortion for him. This is my issue... If she wants an abortion for herself then let her off. If she is doing it for him then that is wrong and you should try your best to talk her round...

The end of my story is that she was so upset, she decided to have the baby even if it meant losing him and he came round and they are both now thrilled... Happy ending here but doesnt happen in every case.

ascanbe

Strange that you would seek advice only from so-called pro lifer's; that suggests you have already made your mind up as to what you should do.
My advice would be to offer your opinion to your friend, if that's what you feel you should do.
Then it's up to her.
There is something we can all learn from this, though. The word dilemma is spelt with two m's.

Stones85

bluewolf wrote: »

Not unless you plan to mind the child and bring it up yourself and pay any expenses for it , etc etc. Otherwise it's none of your business and keep your nose out. Don't get a girl kicked out by her family, that's not being a "friend".
If the bf is going to jail and she is having family trouble and now a crisis pregnancy she needs support not judgement and you being two-faced and going behind her back to get her into trouble with her family deliberately is not helpful at all.

She has no family trouble, a very happy home with lovely parents. The bf has only been charged, gardai say he will prob only do a few weeks if that.
She came to me for advice, I told her what I thought, directed her to a number a agencies that can help. She made appointments to see them but her bf has convinced her not to go and just have an abortion because he thinks its "easier".
I will continue to be friends with her regardless.
I'm no councelor but she really doesn't seem to be in a good state to make the type of huge decision, she said she was gonna keep it 'till the bf convinced her otherwise.
The whole thing seems sooo wrong. Her family would help her out completely, they are lovely people, but she won't tell them!
I'm more afraid that she'll have huge regrets in the near + distant future about this and destroy herself. Her family would help!


We're all different I know and have different veiws on th topic, I'm not saying I will say anything, I prob won't.

But I see that unborn child as a live human being seperate to the mother, which it is as it has seperate DNA, sex, etc etc.

Surely you see the dilema for me here? I may be able to save a childs life....... and no I'm in no way religious Phlann.

Eric Cartman

if you want to stop her (which you do) op then adopt the child from her, otherwise its her body and she can make the descision

Stones85

ascanbe wrote: »

Strange that you would seek advice only from so-called pro lifer's; that suggests you have already made your mind up as to what you should do.
My advice would be to offer your opinion to your friend, if that's what you feel you should do.
Then it's up to her.
There is something we can all learn from this, though. The word dilemma is spelt with two m's.

It's directed at pro-lifers as its a forgone conclusion what pro-abortion people will say.

Oh dilemma is spelt with 2 m's? so nice to point that out, really added to your post

SarahSassy

OP, I totally sympathise with you and I have the same beliefs on the subject. I dont believe that I have the right to eliminate another life because I got drunk and didnt use a condom for example....

You need to keep talking to her... She should not be doing it for him...

Nevyn

To get a referal to a clinic abroad she is meant to go have a neutral counelling session to talk about all the options first before a referal is offered if that is what she wants..
Please press upon her to do what.

www.positiveoption.ie

Hagar

I'm unashamedly pro-life but I must say that the post by CathyMoran has been the most civil and humane response to the OP question, I concur with the advice she has given. In the real world it's the best you can do. The child is lost regardless of what you do or say, all you can do after that is the least harm/greatest good. Support your friend when she needs it.

kraggy

You're entitled to your beliefs and you're even entitled to do your best to convince your friend not to have an abortion but in the end, it's HER decision and if you go behind her back and tell her family, then you deserve to have very bad things happen to you for a very long time.

Also, you're forgetting one crucial thing. You do not know for sure that the main reason for her not having the baby is her fear of her parents reaction.

There could be other stuff going on.

Stay out of it. It's none of your business.

Nevyn

kraggy infracted for unhelpful posting.

Stones85

Eric Cartman wrote: »

if you want to stop her (which you do) op then adopt the child from her, otherwise its her body and she can make the descision

In your view the child and mother are 1 being I presume? I see it as 2 seperate people, I about to end the life of the other. The childs body his/her own. But we're off topic here, I won't debate the morality of abortion, just wondering what people with morals similar to mine would do in this situation?

MagicMarker

Stones85 wrote: »

She has no family trouble, a very happy home with lovely parents. The bf has only been charged, gardai say he will prob only do a few weeks if that.
She came to me for advice, I told her what I thought, directed her to a number a agencies that can help. She made appointments to see them but her bf has convinced her not to go and just have an abortion because he thinks its "easier".
I will continue to be friends with her regardless.
I'm no councelor but she really doesn't seem to be in a good state to make the type of huge decision, she said she was gonna keep it 'till the bf convinced her otherwise.
The whole thing seems sooo wrong. Her family would help her out completely, they are lovely people, but she won't tell them!
I'm more afraid that she'll have huge regrets in the near + distant future about this and destroy herself. Her family would help!


We're all different I know and have different veiws on th topic, I'm not saying I will say anything, I prob won't.

But I see that unborn child as a live human being seperate to the mother, which it is as it has seperate DNA, sex, etc etc.

Surely you see the dilema for me here? I may be able to save a childs life....... and no I'm in no way religious Phlann.

Listen, it's none of your business, you're in no position at all. She asked for your opinion and you gave it, that's where your input ends.

It's up to her whether she wants to abort or not.

Nevyn

Stones85 I am only going to ask this once, is this an actual personal issue for you and do you have an actual friend in this situation
or are you just looking to see how many pro life posters there are here and what they would do ?

Stones85

Thaedydal wrote: »

Stones85 I am only going to as this once, is this an actual personal issue for you and do you have an actual friend in this situation or are you just looking to see how many pro life posters there are here and what they would do ?

No this is real, I would like to know what they would do though, I'm extremely unsure of myself here, to me its one of the worst things on earth is about to happen to my friend and her child, I could stop it. Thaedydal I'm asking other pro-lifers what they'd do so to in a way check if my thinking is my own over reaction or is it rational to do everything to stop it.

It's killing me knowing that the childs life it counting down/running out to its day of death... I don't mean to offend prochoice/abortion people. Its just how I'm feeling and am asking for proper serious advice..... not snide comments or a crass attempt at humour or a religious slur.

Joey the lips

No you should not tell anyone as I doubt she would have told you if she thought you would.

We all seem to be able to make moral decisions when it comes to other people

If your her friend you will respect her wishes. As for telling her parents she is going to need all the friends she can get by the sounds of it so no dont tell her parents.

LegacyUser

Don't say a word to her family. As has been mentioned already it's none of your business.

My sister had an abortion and told me about it 2 years after she had done it. At first I was really pissed off with her as I'm against abortion in *certain circumstances. In her case it was between her and her then boyfriend and I knew that our family would have supported her. When I cooled down and talked to her about it I realized that it really is not my decision or business unless she asked me before she done it on what I would advise her. All the "what if's" popped up but I have to respect her decision as it is hers and hers alone to make.


*if the baby has been conceived between 2 consenting adults & one or both fit enough to take care of it or would have enough support there for them i.e.family, money etc

Eric Cartman

despite myself being a pro abortion person and ill keep my views on you even contemplating stopping this to myself, the general consensus from everyone (pro choice and pro life) on this thread has been that you should not interfere and you should be a real friend and support her in her descision, you may not agree with what shes going to do, but she has made her choice and its a choice which enables her to continue life as normal afterwards.

PeakOutput

Stones85 wrote: »

No this is real, I would like to know what they would do though, I'm extremely unsure of myself here, to me its one of the worst things on earth is about to happen to my friend and her child, I could stop it. Thaedydal I'm asking other pro-lifers what they'd do so to in a way check if my thinking is my own over reaction or is it rational to do everything to stop it.

It's killing me knowing that the childs life it counting down/running out to its day of death... I don't mean to offend prochoice/abortion people. Its just how I'm feeling and am asking for proper serious advice..... not snide comments or a crass attempt at humour or a religious slur.

your beliefs are irrelevant as are mine as are her families

the only beliefs that matter are hers. you say you will be her friend regardless. no you wont. it wont take her long to find out who went behind her back and i guarantee you that wont end well

she has every right to travel to the uk and she has every right to do what she wants when she is there. you have NO right to spread anything you were told in confidence to anyone else NONE

Stones85

Eric Cartman wrote: »

despite myself being a pro abortion person and ill keep my views on you even contemplating stopping this to myself, the general consensus from everyone (pro choice and pro life) on this thread has been that you should not interfere and you should be a real friend and support her in her descision, you may not agree with what shes going to do, but she has made her choice and its a choice which enables her to continue life as normal afterwards.

I only directed my question at pro-lifers because responses like this almost convince me I have to do something.

Stones85

PeakOutput wrote: »

your beliefs are irrelevant as are mine as are her families

the only beliefs that matter are hers. you say you will be her friend regardless. no you wont. it wont take her long to find out who went behind her back and i guarantee you that wont end well

she has every right to travel to the uk and she has every right to do what she wants when she is there. you have NO right to spread anything you were told in confidence to anyone else NONE

Of coarse I have a right to pass on information given to me in confidence, I'm not a preist and we weren't in the confessional!! If I told you in cofidence I was going to commit what you see as a murder, you'd keep it to yourself?

My beliefs are very relevent.... thats why she asked and pretty much came round to it until the bf had words with her.

MagicMarker

Stones85 wrote: »

Of coarse I have a right to pass on information given to me in confidence, I'm not a preist and we weren't in the confessional!! If I told you in cofidence I was going to commit what you see as a murder, you'd keep it to yourself?

My beliefs are very relevent.... thats why she asked and pretty much came round to it until the bf had words with her.

It's only murder in your opinion, and your opinion means sweet FA in this particular scenario.

shellyboo

Stones85 wrote: »

I only directed my question at pro-lifers because responses like this almost convince me I have to do something.

Calm, reasoned, respectful responses, you mean? All he said was that you should respect her choice. If you got pregnant and decided to keep the baby, I'm sure your friend would not question your choice. You have no right to question hers either.

It's really, really none of your business. She asked your opinion, she took it on board, she made her decision. End of story. Stay out of it.

Nevyn

I really think all you can do is urge her to go to proper on directive counselling and be generally supportive of her.

Even if she does travel to the uk she will still have a non directive counselling session over there before hand which will cost her money and she could then decide over there not
to go through with the termination.

The non directive counselling sessions here are free.

Stones85

Thaedydal wrote: »

I really think all you can do is urge her to go to proper on directive counselling and be generally supportive of her.

Even if she does travel to the uk she will still have a non directive counselling session over there before hand which will cost her money and she could then decide over there not
to go through with the termination.

The non directive counselling sessions here are free.

I'll talk to her again.... Thank you for your help

Stones85

shellyboo wrote: »

Calm, reasoned, respectful responses, you mean? All he said was that you should respect her choice. If you got pregnant and decided to keep the baby, I'm sure your friend would not question your choice. You have no right to question hers either.

It's really, really none of your business. She asked your opinion, she took it on board, she made her decision. End of story. Stay out of it.

No... an exceedingly pro-abortionist apathetic response.

Nevyn

Stones85 understand you don't want to stand by and do absolutely nothing,
but you really are limited in what you can do which will not be possibly hearbreaking
or detrimental to you friend, other people won't see it that way but please do not
attack them because you disagree.

PeakOutput

Stones85 wrote: »

Of coarse I have a right to pass on information given to me in confidence

this is just like the other thread people are confusing something being legal with it being right and illegal with it being wrong

just because you can do something does not make it right surely as a prolifer you understand that concept? you can of course pass on the information she told you it is completely morally / ethically / whichever way you want to put it wrong to do so.

If I told you in cofidence I was going to commit what you see as a murder, you'd keep it to yourself?

what i see as murder is irrelevant. if someone told me they were going to commit an actual (legal) murder than i would tell someone

My beliefs are very relevent.... thats why she asked and pretty much came round to it until the bf had words with her.

no no your beliefs are not relevant she asked for your opinion you gave it she has taken it on board along with other opinions that is were your relevance in any of this ends. anything else you are deciding to take upon yourself because you are impartial and in my opinion and ,as far as i can see, every other poster on this thread believes that to take the action you are taking is wrong in every way(even the pro lifers)

Stones85

Thaedydal wrote: »

Stones85 understand you don't want to stand by and do absolutely nothing,
but you really are limited in what you can do which will not be possibly hearbreaking
or detrimental to you friend, other people won't see it that way but please do not
attack them because you disagree.

I didn't think I was attacking them, just countering what I thought were overtly pro-choice opinions that weren't really helping my decision. The comments would have directed me more to intervene...

Polleta

Whether a person is pro life or isn't is irrelevant in the actual question.

You were told something in confidence by a friend and you want to break this confidence and go behind her back. If any 'friend' of mine betrayed me that would be an end to my friendship for sure.


Your personal choice in this situation would be different to your friends and that is hard to take but it is 100% her choice and she needs as much support as she can get right now! All you can do is direct her in the right direction for help and counselling as you have done and then be there for her if you can.

If you can't be there for her then you should step away. It is unforgiveable to betray a friend in my opinion and it deserves no respect.

Polleta

Stones85 wrote: »

I didn't think I was attacking them, just countering what I thought were overtly pro-choice opinions that weren't really helping my decision. The comments would have directed me more to intervene...

I'm sorry but WHAT? Why bother start a thread in PI if all you want to hear are people telling you to do what you want? How one sided and closed minded can you get?

You have gotten some great advice from both sides and are just throwing aside what you don't want to hear. What bother? Wish I hadn't wasted my time replying now.

I hope everything works out for your friend either way.

yawnstretch

Pro-lifers are not as rare as you think. It seems to me that you have an instinct and you should follow your heart.

I am not in your situation and neither are any of the other "your opinion is irrelevant" posters. You're going to have to do what you believe is right.

Don't be afraid.

Stones85

Polleta wrote: »

Whether a person is pro life or isn't is irrelevant in the actual question.

You were told something in confidence by a friend and you want to break this confidence and go behind her back. If any 'friend' of mine betrayed me that would be an end to my friendship for sure.


Your personal choice in this situation would be different to your friends and that is hard to take but it is 100% her choice and she needs as much support as she can get right now! All you can do is direct her in the right direction for help and counselling as you have done and then be there for her if you can.

If you can't be there for her then you should step away. It is unforgiveable to betray a friend in my opinion and it deserves no respect.

Being pro-life or not is very relevent... most pro-abortion/choice people will invarably say her choice/none of your business etc.

I consider what she's about to do as murder, would you stop a murder? Whether or not the person told you in confidence or not? The more I think about it, the more my thinking is this; If I intervene I will have saved a child from a horrific ending to their life, in doing so I may lose a friendship....... I'll do what Thaedoyl (sorry 'bout the spelling) said..... if it doesn't work I'll intervene.

PeakOutput

Stones85 wrote: »

Being pro-life or not is very relevent... most pro-abortion/choice people will invarably say her choice/none of your business etc.

I consider what she's about to do as murder, would you stop a murder? Whether or not the person told you in confidence or not? The more I think about it, the more my thinking is this; If I intervene I will have saved a child from a horrific ending to their life, in doing so I may lose a friendship....... I'll do what Thaedoyl (sorry 'bout the spelling) said..... if it doesn't work I'll intervene.

your talking yourself into it thats fine its your life but anything after talking to her again MAY have your desired result or it may not what it will do is absolutely ruin your friendship obviously i wish you and more importantly your friend the best of luck but i think you are making a terrible mistake