London Riots

Iwasfrozen

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7977489.stm
What are your views on this ?
To me it sends out a clear message of people unhappy with the establishment and the worlds threatment of this economic crisis on a whole. I only hope that the ensuring violence dosen't overshadow the original message of protest.
Also upon looking at the video I noticed most of the protesters where not only young and mostly male but also where dressed in Black and carrying red flags, The symbol of Anarchy.
What is the resoning of this phonemon, that every time the establishment screws up in some major way that people shout cries of support of Anarchy yet in good times, and indeed a few months when this calms down, people are happy with our Capitalist society ?

deadhead13

There are better ways to send a message.

Nodin

'Hello Cop, We're going to mob the bank of England....'

'Really? Thats Great - we'll be there too'

Great plannin there lads....

NewDubliner

Looks more like a disturbance than a riot.

Sand

I think theyre doing a public service - At times like these, the general public need a diverting spectacle and theres nothing like seeing a hippy get a baton across the face to cheer everyone up.

Nodin

Sand wrote: »

I think theyre doing a public service - At times like these, the general public need a diverting spectacle and theres nothing like seeing a hippy get a baton across the face to cheer everyone up.

Speak for yourself.

Scofflaw

The police estimated there were about 5,000 people taking part in demonstrations, and officers cordoned off a number of streets.

5,000 people is not exactly many...and the G20 protests tend to be a bit 'professional'. Looking at the video there doesn't make me change that view.

cordially,
Scofflaw

drunkmonkey

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

people are happy with our Capitalist society ?

i'd be a lot happier with a Free Society, our race for output is killing the climate and people... that's what's there mainly protesting about?

The G20 summits are nothing more than a show of strength on behalf of big brother, we don't really need to know where these meetings are happening, it fills newspaper, websites and blogs, it's a distraction from the real news, we've a lot to answer for in our half hearted protests (shannon/iraq) but we're content so why complain....

You have to admit it's a great distraction from the middle east, at least 30 (that's a nice even number) Taliban were killed (not even 1 bystander?) by Afgan & Foreign police (that would be us the capitalists and our pipeline dreams) http://www.afghannews.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=3322 ( I see where the protestors are coming from)

best of luck to the protestors, it's a noble but fruitless cause...

tbh, i'd like to see more hippy protests against this sort of thing, sit ins, bed ins, love ins, etc in the future...

djpbarry

drunkmonkey wrote: »

best of luck to the protestors, it's a noble but fruitless cause...

What exactly is noble about the following:

Demonstrators launched missiles and forced their way into the bank after clashes with police in the capital. A branch of HSBC also had windows broken.
...
Protesters had smashed RBS windows with missiles, including coins and computer keyboards, and entered the building. The branch had been closed already as a precautionary measure.

What exactly do they hope to achieve by smashing a few windows?

drunkmonkey

djpbarry wrote: »

What exactly is noble about the following:

not a thing, i didn't say they weren't numb nuts, there's better ways of achieving things...

Guy:Incognito

drunkmonkey wrote: »

best of luck to the protestors, it's a noble but fruitless cause...

Would you feel the same if it was your private property they chose to destroy?

ejmaztec

Ironic that some of the older Labour Party politicians were involved in the 1960s Grosvenor Square riots. They must be getting those 'Nam flashbacks at the sight of the young-uns getting a good kicking..

A Dub in Glasgo

A riot? Dear God, the young people of today. That was a skirmish, not a riot!

Fratton Fred

I think the guys that turned up today were the trendy art student anarchists. I think the real anarchists will be down at the Excel thursday

djpbarry

drunkmonkey wrote: »

not a thing, i didn't say they weren't numb nuts, there's better ways of achieving things...

But you did wish them luck, didn't you?

Soldie

I'd say most of them don't really know what they're on about.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Soldie

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I agree. Most of these 'hippy' protesters can be seen waving placards bearing phrases such as 'Down With Capitalism' and 'End Globalization', seemingly unaware that every Western country has a mixed economy - not capitalism. At the risk of making a sweeping generalisation; I'd say most of them haven't got a clue about what genuine globalization or capitalism entails. From what I can see the totality of their understanding of globalization is something along the lines of Shell exploiting resources in Nigeria - and they seem to extrapolate from that that globalization must therefore be inherently abhorrent, as a result.

thesunwashot

Soldie wrote: »

...and they seem to extrapolate from that that globalization must therefore be inherently abhorrent, as a result.

Globalization is really just a by-word for forcing the lowering of trade barriers without shifting the current balance of power ending up in a situation in which the poorer nations cannot manage to clear their debts and largely lose control of their natural resources. In these terms it is abhorrent.

It is impossible to guess the individual knowledge of those on the marches/protests around the G20 but I think that it is pretty well understood that what we have is a situation which can only maintain the current rich/poor relationships between nation states.

AlekSmart

There appeared to be an awful lot of photo-journalists in the vanguard of the "Action"...in some TV footage there appeared to be more camera holders than either "Rioters" or POlice ?

Sgt. Sensible

Sand wrote: »

I think theyre doing a public service - At times like these, the general public need a diverting spectacle and theres nothing like seeing a hippy get a baton across the face to cheer everyone up.

I don't enjoy seeing anyone on either side getting hurt at these things and regardless of whether they support the protests or not, I believe most people are quite rightly disgusted by images like this actually.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/01/article-1166349-04390431000005DC-345_468x286.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/01/article-1166349-04391428000005DC-968_468x692.jpg

You'd have to be a particularly sad, lonely and creepy individual to be amused by seeing young women being assaulted tbh.

A Dub in Glasgo

gurramok

Sgt. Sensible wrote: »

I don't enjoy seeing anyone on either side getting hurt at these things and regardless of whether they support the protests or not, I believe most people are quite rightly disgusted by images like this actually.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/01/article-1166349-04390431000005DC-345_468x286.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/01/article-1166349-04391428000005DC-968_468x692.jpg

You'd have to be a particularly sad, lonely and creepy individual to be amused by seeing young women being assaulted tbh.

Terrible pictures. Surprised some posters are advocating violence.

democrates

Sand wrote: »

I think theyre doing a public service - At times like these, the general public need a diverting spectacle and theres nothing like seeing a hippy get a baton across the face to cheer everyone up.

I suppose for April 1st that kind of remark doesn't have to go to /b/.

A Dub in Glasgo

Soldie wrote: »

I'd say most of them don't really know what they're on about.

I'd say you do not have any idea about that

Manic Moran

To me it sends out a clear message of people unhappy with the establishment and the worlds threatment of this economic crisis on a whole

Protesting G-meetings is pretty much a standard practice throughout the years. I pay it no mind at this point, I'm assuming it's just a hobby.

Sgt. Sensible wrote: »

I don't enjoy seeing anyone on either side getting hurt at these things and regardless of whether they support the protests or not, I believe most people are quite rightly disgusted by images like this actually.

Though I don't enjoy seeing people get hurt (Unless they're asking for it), I'm not disgusted by the images per se. It's the standard result of a violent clash.

conlonbmw

Sand wrote: »

I think theyre doing a public service - At times like these, the general public need a diverting spectacle and theres nothing like seeing a hippy get a baton across the face to cheer everyone up.

Thanks for that, I spat my tea over the keyboard laughing.

But seriously, no proper activist can protest in London anymore, as the filth will just seal an entire area off and illegally detain everyone in it.

gurramok

Manic Moran wrote: »

Though I don't enjoy seeing people get hurt (Unless they're asking for it), I'm not disgusted by the images per se. It's the standard result of a violent clash.

Yeh, she must be a very strong woman to provoke her bloodied head :mad:

Iwasfrozen

Ironically, many capitalist anarchists would be quite happy to live in a stateless society that organizes itself through free markets and voluntary association. The kinds of people one sees protesting at G20 summits are generally not "anarchists" at all; they are collectivists. They ultimately need to fall back on the power of the state to quash the systems of private property and free markets that would otherwise arise spontaneously and voluntarily.

I am obliged to Disagree, as a Labour supporter and a supporter of the failed move to Nationalise all banks, I believe certain financial areas of our society (such as banks) need to be Nationalised due to their very nature.
A bank that is allowed to do what ever it wants shall of course persure people to take out increasingly larger loans as long as they believe they can finance the loan or have enough reserve Credit to cover the banks tracks should the loan not be paid off. Quite simply a privetly owned bank has no moral obligation other than to get the largest possible return for it's Shareholders.
I would describe my Political Position as Social Democracy, I believe in high Personal freedom, Democracy and low Financial Freedom.
What we as a country need are Nationalisation of all banks and much tighter regulation of financial movement.
How would we regulate Banks in your Archo - Capitalist world ?

djpbarry

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I am obliged to Disagree, as a Labour supporter and a supporter of the failed move to Nationalise all banks, I believe certain financial areas of our society (such as banks) need to be Nationalised due to their very nature.

In other words, you want the government to take as much control of the population's personal finances as possible, because obviously people are too stupid to manage their own money?

Iwasfrozen

In other words, you want the government to take as much control of the population's personal finances as possible, because obviously people are too stupid to manage their own money?

Well, not in those words but basically...

thesunwashot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well, not in those words but basically...

Are you talking about more controls on personal financial freedom or on those of institutions/corporations? Maybe both in the sense of forcing the institutions to loan in a more sustainable way so the individual would be default not be able to get in a precarious situation.

Dannyboy83

Anybody who turned up at the G20 protests for some particular cause needs to have their brain examined.
The G20 is just an excuse for a punch up and everyone knows it.

By protesting at G20, you actually remove sympathy from your cause.

Did anyone see the Muslim protestors with their banners?
They would be executed in their own country for that stuff.

Iwasfrozen

Are you talking about more controls on personal financial freedom or on those of institutions/corporations? Maybe both in the sense of forcing the institutions to loan in a more sustainable way so the individual would be default not be able to get in a precarious situation.

Yes both. I believe that by Nationalising all banks we can control the Finance of all aspects of society e.g Insititutions/Coroperations and that of the average Joe.
Basically my vision is to remove the power of finance from the Eilite few who currently control all capital in this country and have it contolled by the Goverment who are directly elected by the people and answerable to the people.

lostexpectation

police baton protestors going out of their way to be peaceful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJRi7YR1bU


if you try to squeeze a crowd into a space smaller then that crowd, what else can they do but fight back

NewDubliner

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes both. I believe that by Nationalising all banks we can control the Finance of all aspects of society e.g Insititutions/Coroperations and that of the average Joe.
Basically my vision is to remove the power of finance from the Eilite few who currently control all capital in this country and have it contolled by the Goverment who are directly elected by the people and answerable to the people.

And you want a 'sable' economy based on taxing 'cooperations'.?:D

Iwasfrozen

*Sigh*
That was a typo on another thread that has nothing to do with the topic.
*Post Reported.*

oscarBravo

lostexpectation wrote: »

police baton protestors going out of their way to be peaceful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJRi7YR1bU

Advancing on a police line to a rallying call of "forward!" isn't my idea of going out of your way to be peaceful.

if you try to squeeze a crowd into a space smaller then that crowd, what else can they do but fight back

Looked to me like the squeezing was being done by the crowd.

I have a very simple strategy for not being batonned by the police: I avoid confrontation with the police.

Whitewater-AGS

lostexpectation wrote: »

police baton protestors going out of their way to be peaceful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJRi7YR1bU


if you try to squeeze a crowd into a space smaller then that crowd, what else can they do but fight back

The fact that they have tents and they are calling the public street climate camp blows your "they where squeezed into a space smaller than the crowd" theory out of the water!

lostexpectation

i heard someone shouting forward, i didn't see the crowd advancing, , i saw them putting the hands and shouting this is not a riot, it amazing how many pyschopaths are on the boards, who enojy seeing peopel get hurt.


if you want to be pedantic whitewash, pushing a crowd faster then any crowd can move is also a well known police tactic

thesunwashot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes both. I believe that by Nationalising all banks we can control the Finance of all aspects of society e.g Insititutions/Coroperations and that of the average Joe.
Basically my vision is to remove the power of finance from the Eilite few who currently control all capital in this country and have it contolled by the Goverment who are directly elected by the people and answerable to the people.

The problem is that this is essentially abolishing capitalism without putting something else in its place. It sounds like the other half of that vision needs to be making Ireland more self sufficient and less reliant on foreign capitalist money. I would worry that with just the financial control, you would lose a lot of jobs as the US corporations pull out (even more than they have already).

cornbb

I was in the City of London yesterday - not for the protest, but I had time to some of the protests outside Liverpool St. and the Bank of England and the activities leading up to them. The vast majority of people I saw were clearly not out to cause trouble, but there were of course a few who were going to stir things up.

The police, on their part, seemed to create an atmosphere where it was so obvious that they expected trouble that trouble was inevitably going to follow - if you know what I mean. They were extremely visible, even in riot gear and with dogs early in the day before there was a hint of trouble. When the marching started they were already hemming people in tightly and tempers naturally began to fray. They seem to hold the opinion that a protest is becoming out of hand at the point where it begins to disrupt traffic - what protest doesn't? The press were just as bad, they were hanging off lampposts and scaffolding and naturally it was in their interest that things would kick off.

The police should certainly not condone violent behaviour at such protests but as I said the overall tone of the day was not a violent one, and the police certainly did their part to create a threatening and heated atmosphere. Their tactics on the day seemed a bit heavy handed (not violent, I'm talking about the technique of "kettling" etc) which is certainly eroding people's right to protest peacefully.

Fratton Fred

riot police are intimidating, there is no doubt about that, but what's the alternative? it was obvious some idiots were going to kick off yesterday, so riot police were needed, but having riot police intimidates and gives a bad atmosphere.

The Met police can be very heavy handed, but they were in a real damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Given the amount of violence and damage caused on previous "Stop the City" days, I can understand them fearing the worse.

Poccington

lostexpectation wrote: »

i heard someone shouting forward, i didn't see the crowd advancing, , i saw them putting the hands and shouting this is not a riot, it amazing how many pyschopaths are on the boards, who enojy seeing peopel get hurt.


if you want to be pedantic whitewash, pushing a crowd faster then any crowd can move is also a well known police tactic

In Public Order situations, if you're given an objective to advance to you don't move at the protestors/rioters pace.

It's not a well known police tactic, it's simple Public Order practice.

hopalong85

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Anybody who turned up at the G20 protests for some particular cause needs to have their brain examined.
The G20 is just an excuse for a punch up and everyone knows it.

By protesting at G20, you actually remove sympathy from your cause.

Did anyone see the Muslim protestors with their banners?
They would be executed in their own country for that stuff.

Sorry, with regard to the last part of that, what exactly do you mean by "their own country"? Exactly how do you know what "their own country" is? There are British Muslims you know.:rolleyes:

AlekSmart

There are British Muslims you know.

Interesting point this....and one which is causing not a little grief to the greater UK Islamic body.

It should be recalled that there were British Nazi`s and at the highest of Social and Political levels too.

Oswald Moseley and the British Union of Fascists were a movement of some note which at one juncture in time could well have been the catalyst for a totally different world to what we have now (NB: I`m not saying BETTER or WORSE,but by jingo it sure would have been DIFFERENT !)

I think Dannyboy83`s point re "their own country" does actually merit fuller debate as at some point in the near to mid future many UK based Muslims may have to make that call for themselves ?

Fratton Fred

I don't really see what british nazis has to do with it, it comes down to the simple fact that a lot of muslims do not recognise borders and that islam is one big family. It is more a case of seeing yourself as muslim or british first,

Nodin

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Did anyone see the Muslim protestors with their banners?
They would be executed in their own country for that stuff.

So muslims can't protest in the West like everyone else because in some majority muslim states they'd be executed?

A Dub in Glasgo

Looks like the police were being economical with the truth about the guy who died of a heart attack last week

Video reveals G20 police assault on man who died

gurramok

The power of a camera reveals the truth, now can anyone trust police accounts of what happened?
Its truly awful, if there is proper accountability to regain trust, that officer should be put on trial with immediate dismissal from the force for bringing the force into disrepute.

silverharp

I know the guy wasnt exactly beaten to death , but the casual way he was hit from behind is worrying. It seems like you give these goons a uniform and a trunchon and well , they seem to enjoy the violence