PHD in Engineering..job prospects?

cunnins4

Hi guys,

I'm graduating from Civil Eng. this year, and I've been offered a PHD subject to me getting funding-applied to IRCSET, will be applying to the others.

The PHD will be in Structural, based on maintenance and servicability of ageing structures, and the supervisor reckons it'll take 3 years, which I'm delighted about because of the jobs market at the moment, it seems to be a good time to be in college.

My question is, although I know about the obvious career possibilities in academia, what does a PHD mean in terms of jobs outside of that? I'll have practically no real world experience (did a summer internship worth feck all last year, nothing happening this year) so what are the job prospects for a PHD?

Advice/experience is most welcome, i'm just trying to get an idea of the possibilities.

Thanks!

Cheeble

Not advice, more an opinion:

Make your choice based on what you want most, not on what the job prospects will be.

Cheeble-eers

DJDC

I would imagine the usefullness of a civil engineering Phd is rather limited outside academia. Are you doing because the jobs market for civil engineering grads is non-existent or are you doing it because you have a genuine passion for civil eng research. If the later, the Phd wins everytime.

Yeah, I'd question what you could get with a PhD without experience really, unless you're looking into academia. Saying that though there is a push by the Universities to get patents under their belts, and to earn from the patents so there are possibilities ahead.

cunnins4

DJDC wrote: »

I would imagine the usefullness of a civil engineering Phd is rather limited outside academia. Are you doing because the jobs market for civil engineering grads is non-existent or are you doing it because you have a genuine passion for civil eng research. If the later, the Phd wins everytime.

That's the thing, I hadn't considered it before. Then I started my final year project and really got into it. My supervisor obviously saw the enthusiasm I had and that's why he suggested the PHD to me. I am genuinely interested in the research, even though it would bore the ears off anyone, I'm very into it.

As the supervisor put it "it's not just an interresting topic to do, it's got real world application and it will be rolled out as a part of the solution we need". And beyond the PHD there's a tonne more work to be done on it, in fact I don't think it'll ever be finished. The model will always have room for improvement, however small.

Yes, the jobs market being sh!te has made the Phd more attractive, but also my summer placement last year really put me off industry. It was a poor placement, butI wouldn't expect the rest to be as miserable as that.

I've seen job adverts with "No MSc or PHd holders need apply" so I'm more concerned that beyond the PHd, should I not be able to find a job in academia, that I'll esentially be useless after 7 or 8 years of study! I'm 24 now, to be 27 with a load of letters after my name and no bread money would be a bit of a disappointment!

I do think I'd prefer a career in academia though, ultimately.

Turbulent Bill

cunnins4 wrote: »

That's the thing, I hadn't considered it before. Then I started my final year project and really got into it. My supervisor obviously saw the enthusiasm I had and that's why he suggested the PHD to me. I am genuinely interested in the research, even though it would bore the ears off anyone, I'm very into it.

As the supervisor put it "it's not just an interresting topic to do, it's got real world application and it will be rolled out as a part of the solution we need". And beyond the PHD there's a tonne more work to be done on it, in fact I don't think it'll ever be finished. The model will always have room for improvement, however small.

Yes, the jobs market being sh!te has made the Phd more attractive, but also my summer placement last year really put me off industry. It was a poor placement, butI wouldn't expect the rest to be as miserable as that.

I've seen job adverts with "No MSc or PHd holders need apply" so I'm more concerned that beyond the PHd, should I not be able to find a job in academia, that I'll esentially be useless after 7 or 8 years of study! I'm 24 now, to be 27 with a load of letters after my name and no bread money would be a bit of a disappointment!

I do think I'd prefer a career in academia though, ultimately.

Speaking from experience, a PhD in engineering will put you just above BEng graduates with similar experience for most jobs (i.e., those not specific to your study area). The reason is that you have more transferable skills (project management, design of experiments, results analysis etc.) - you've proven in a way that you can do a project rather than just study. For jobs that need a range of skills (or obviously ones in your research area), you'll be at a significant advantage. Note though that 3 years experience is significant, so you could lose out to your classmates for general jobs when you graduate. I've never seen a job ad that specifically excludes postgrads!

Your attitude is spot-on - you really need to be interested in the project, because a PhD is hard and thankless work. It definitely isn't just a back door because the economy is bad.

Just a word of caution, supervisors are notorious for talking up the world-changing impact of their projects. You need a clear head and set of objectives for what you want out of the project, because you'll end up running it.

I haven't regretted doing mine (yet!).

cunnins4

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Speaking from experience, a PhD in engineering will put you just above BEng graduates with similar experience for most jobs (i.e., those not specific to your study area). The reason is that you have more transferable skills (project management, design of experiments, results analysis etc.) - you've proven in a way that you can do a project rather than just study. For jobs that need a range of skills (or obviously ones in your research area), you'll be at a significant advantage. Note though that 3 years experience is significant, so you could lose out to your classmates for general jobs when you graduate. I've never seen a job ad that specifically excludes postgrads!

Your attitude is spot-on - you really need to be interested in the project, because a PhD is hard and thankless work. It definitely isn't just a back door because the economy is bad.

Just a word of caution, supervisors are notorious for talking up the world-changing impact of their projects. You need a clear head and set of objectives for what you want out of the project, because you'll end up running it.

I haven't regretted doing mine (yet!).

Thanks, that was very helpful. You've essentially echoed what my brother (M.Sc in Eng) has said about the skills I'll acquire in doing the PHd.

As for me running the project-yes. He's given me full control of the direction it's to take and I've already got him making arrangements for me based on what I want to do and achieve. And for him hamming up the project-yes, I totally understand what you're saying, but with the research I've done into it for the fyp and the funding he's been given to get it done, it's looking like it would actually be the basis of my career in academia (should I end up in academia of course!). Researchers in this area don't do anything else-once you're into it, you can't get out! :pac:

Thanks for the insight. If anyone else can add, please do!

Turbulent Bill

cunnins4 wrote: »

As for me running the project-yes. He's given me full control of the direction it's to take and I've already got him making arrangements for me based on what I want to do and achieve. And for him hamming up the project-yes, I totally understand what you're saying, but with the research I've done into it for the fyp and the funding he's been given to get it done, it's looking like it would actually be the basis of my career in academia (should I end up in academia of course!). Researchers in this area don't do anything else-once you're into it, you can't get out! :pac:

Just a word of warning, building a proper career in academia is very difficult given the small jobs market and increased numbers of PhDs. You'll need a strong research record to get a postdoc, and back that up with good teaching experience to get a lectureship. Academia didn't interest me (did the PhD just to do the project), but I know plenty of people who had to slog even to get very junior academic positions.

I'd start making contacts in structural consultancies, both to aid your research and for possible future jobs. If you pitch your research as an aid to their business I'm sure they'd be happy to help.

Check out the Postgraduates and Researcher forums here for good advice.

GB15

I'd definately take the PhD. You may not be able to claim any more money than a BE graduate if looking for industry work afterwards but it's a hell of a lot better than having no work experience whatsoever. Seriously the job market for Civil/Structural engineers is really really bad. Engineers with bags of experience are being let go all over the place.

Also when you qualify you will have the opportunity to either stay in pure research (postdoc), lecturing (teaching + research) or go into industry.

On another note I'm almost 100% that the IRCSET funding applications for students starting next September finished in February. Hopefully your supervisor has other options.

PhD all the way if you ask me - Good luck!

cunnins4

GB15 wrote: »

I'd definately take the PhD. You may not be able to claim any more money than a BE graduate if looking for industry work afterwards but it's a hell of a lot better than having no work experience whatsoever. Seriously the job market for Civil/Structural engineers is really really bad. Engineers with bags of experience are being let go all over the place.

Also when you qualify you will have the opportunity to either stay in pure research (postdoc), lecturing (teaching + research) or go into industry.

On another note I'm almost 100% that the IRCSET funding applications for students starting next September finished in February. Hopefully your supervisor has other options.

PhD all the way if you ask me - Good luck!

I've applied for IRCSET, hopefully I'll get it. Results are out in a few weeks.

Thanks for all of the advice. The general concensus seems to be positive, and it's not hard to see why.

Bill: That's good advice about making contacts. Certainly something I hadn't thought about thanks. I think my supervisor'd help there as he does a fair bit of consulting himself afaik.

I guess the thing about it is, if I do the phd and just the phd it won't get me too far, but if I put the effort in and mix with the right people and develop my other skills I should be able to get what I want out of it in the end.

Thanks for the advice folks. Much appreciated.

Kareir

Damn, probably a bit late to get in here, but...

I think you should do the PhD, as said, because:

1) It broadens your options, should you go into academic research/Lecturing.

2) It can't hurt to have on your CV, and the way jobs are going at the moment, you probably wouldn't have that easy a time finding a job.

3) ... well, you'd be DR. [insert name here], and that's pretty damn awesome. When someone yells "Is there a doctor in the house?" you can finally yell back "Yes!!". Having said that, you will probably (99/100 times) get the reply "A real doctor!". Unless the patient needs load testing.

_Kar.