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Pull ups
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31-03-2009 10:29am#1
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You are really just saying your definition of a pullup is different to theirs. In the other thread on pushups you were saying you must "get your sternum to the floor" and anything less was a "half pushup". Well 99% of people I see doing pushups are doing "half pushups" so, most definitions probably describe them as a "half pushup". It makes more sense to me to go with what 99% of the population would call a pushup, and to call your pushup a "sternum pushup" or something.I'd be very surprised, based upon what I've seen written in by some of the posters in the past, if some of the "sets of 10" and so on were accurate. I'm not ashamed to say that our gym record for consecutive pull ups on testing days is 16, because I know they're all strict pulls, letting the rep all the way out and the two guys who got those are strong boys.
This is the animation on wikipedia of pushups
I think most would call those "pushups", sternum nowhere near the ground.
This was the world record for pullups in a minute which did have rules, but I presume they do not fit your particular definition of pullups
Not your version of properly. There are loads of youtube clips of pro BBers doing training and loads of comments on them not doing them "properly".Spot on, rarely have I seen them done properly in the gym.
"Ronnie Coleman doesn't have a f**king clue, look at him swinging those curls, hes doing it all wrong" :rolleyes:
Many people could not care less what others think about what they are doing, they are trying to improve, if they go from 5 to 10 of what THEY consider pullups then they know they are improving, they do not want to get into pissing contests. Some prefer shorter ROMs and could be doing it for any reason. I do lots of quick chinups sometimes and specifically do not go to a deadhang each time as it can cause soreness. When doing negatives I also go full ROM.
Now if somebody is doing something dangerous they should be told. There was a good post about "Form Police" on this site.
http://rosstraining.com/blog/2009/03/11/the-form-police/0 -
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Exactly. How can you measure when you don't have any standard?Its not a pissing contest, but its akin to saying you can run 5km in 20 mins when its only really 3.5km. All well and good saying that you are improving but its very difficult to measure, did that set of 12 start the pull a bit higher etc etc,
Yup. In my gym if you want to get on the record board you must do it on a test day. So you do all of your tests on that day and only that record on that day counts. We've had guys do 20 but they didn't do it along with the other tests so they don't get on the board. In the grand order of things you'll always do max push ups, max I-rows before you do your pull ups.The OP asked for numbers and number he got.
Is 16 really the 1 set max in your gym?
Not aimed at anyone in particular, and I'm sure there's at least one genuine number in the above so why not your's.I stand by my numbers in case that your dig above is at me. Full dead hang to shoulders rammed up against bar.
Be sure we can see your feet so nobody is lifting youNonetheless, lets get the above claims backed up with video evidence in the next week or so. Mine are coming tomorrow (or soon ish) :pac:
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Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭
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Yup. In my gym if you want to get on the record board you must do it on a test day. So you do all of your tests on that day and only that record on that day counts. We've had guys do 20 but they didn't do it along with the other tests so they don't get on the board. In the grand order of things you'll always do max push ups, max I-rows before you do your pull ups.
Ok, interesting. In that case I can do a few squats tomorrow morning too since it is really squat day.
Do you set a time limit for the pull up test?
The time I set my 1 set pull up max was at the gladiator contender trials. You had 1 minute to do as many as possible. If you fell off the score didn't count. I lost hold of the bar with about 15 seconds to go as I stupidly decided to swing around a bit to get a better grip :mad:
LolBe sure we can see your feet so nobody is lifting you
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No, but it's empirical, testable and repeatable. It doesn't come down to what you did earlier etc.Aaaaaaaaah Roper thats not the same,
The rest is enough to have rested. If you're fit you only need 3 minutes or so for total recovery and extra recovery doesn't really benefit you all that much. The push up record holder can do 53 in one minute, and yes, they're all gold standard tooAfter maximum pushups? How big is the break between the other exercises, what sort of pressups did the record holder have? Just curiosity,
No time limit for the pull ups, you just have to stay on the bar!0 -
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You're missing my point. I am not saying you should be doing what others do, just recognise what they probably are talking about, which you already know. I am saying if 99% are likely to call a "non-strict pullup" a pullup, then that is really the general consensus. I presume the OP did mean "non-strict", and perhaps all the other guys posting also did mean "non-strict". That is the whole point, they were all probably talking about the same feat, while YOU are the only one talking about "strict ones" and laughing at them, and inferring they are "wrong", since your defintion does not match all of theirs. They are not "fooling themselves" if they are all talking about the same feat.LOL. just LOL. The day I start to judge myself by what 99% of people are doing is the day you'll see me on the stepper.
I thought you would have complained about the small kipping, I know it is hard not to at that speed, but I thought you would have done them slower. Those are competition pullups so the chin is just barely grazing over the bar, just enough to satisfy a judge, I expected you would have gone much higher yourself.Those 46 pull ups are perfect, elbows let all the way out and chin over the bar. I sincerely doubt most people on this thread are doing likewise.
I was not saying one was correct/incorrect, better/worse -just that definitions vary and you already know that, and it seems you knew perfectly well what they recognised as a pullup, yet sneeringly laugh at them as it doesn't match your idea.With the two upper body exercises we're talking about, the correct way is the correct way because the two incorrect ways...
Or like lads all saying they run 5km in 20mins and saying "I hope that was all uphill, cos thats they way I do my runs", yet knowing full well they are all probably running on the flat.Its not a pissing contest, but its akin to saying you can run 5km in 20 mins when its only really 3.5km.
Yep lower yourself slowly as Roper recommended. They are called negatives. Probably best to start with chinups which is palms facing you, most find these easier.I have to spring off a chair a bit. Should I keep going this way until I can do them properly?
You can also do self assisted chin/pullups, you can put a towel over your bar and in the top position your legs are on the ground, now pull as hard as you can so you are supporting yourself with your feet as little as you can, now lower yourself down, bending your knees so you are always just barely supporting yourself with your legs. I have adjustable straps on my chinup bar so can slot another bar into them which can be set at this height.0 -
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You're missing my point. I am not saying you should be doing what others do, just recognise what they probably are talking about, which you already know. I am saying if 99% are likely to call a "non-strict pullup" a pullup, then that is really the general consensus. I presume the OP did mean "non-strict", and perhaps all the other guys posting also did mean "non-strict". That is the whole point, they were all probably talking about the same feat, while YOU are the only one talking about "strict ones" and laughing at them, and inferring they are "wrong", since your defintion does not match all of theirs. They are not "fooling themselves" if they are all talking about the same feat.
I thought you would have complained about the small kipping, I know it is hard not to at that speed, but I thought you would have done them slower. Those are competition pullups so the chin is just barely grazing over the bar, just enough to satisfy a judge, I expected you would have gone much higher yourself.
I was not saying one was correct/incorrect, better/worse -just that definitions vary and you already know that, and it seems you knew perfectly well what they recognised as a pullup, yet sneeringly laugh at them as it doesn't match your idea.
Or like lads all saying they run 5km in 20mins and saying "I hope that was all uphill, cos thats they way I do my runs", yet knowing full well they are all probably running on the flat.
Yep lower yourself slowly as Roper recommended. They are called negatives. Probably best to start with chinups which is palms facing you, most find these easier.
You can also do self assisted chin/pullups, you can put a towel over your bar and in the top position your legs are on the ground, now pull as hard as you can so you are supporting yourself with your feet as little as you can, now lower yourself down, bending your knees so you are always just barely supporting yourself with your legs. I have adjustable straps on my chinup bar so can slot another bar into them which can be set at this height.
Nah. Once you start talking about 'general consensus' / '99% of the population consider...' / 'strict/non-strict' you can call whatever you want whatever you want. Sure I can bench 100kg if I just lift the bar off and lower it half an inch - there, I just bench pressed something very heavy.
Full ROM is full ROM is full ROM. You can do partials/negatives - whatever you want, but you can't play fast and loose with definitions of a particular exercise based on opinion/consensus/goals you are working towards through performing the exercises a particular way.0 -
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Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 9004
Nonetheless, lets get the above claims backed up with video evidence in the next week or so. Mine are coming tomorrow (or soon ish) :pac:
As promised here is 1x14 from this morning at bodyweight 77kg: narrow parallel grip. We join the action on the downward half of the 1st rep... so you're going to have to trust me that I didn't do another 10 beforehand.
My plan was to do 8, get 5 deep breaths in, do another 4, 5 deep breaths... then squeeze out the last ones. It worked, just. The last one was a struggle.
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My plan was to do 8, get 5 deep breaths in, do another 4, 5 deep breaths... then squeeze out the last ones. It worked, just. The last one was a struggle.
14 rep breathing chins ups i like it 0 -
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Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 9004
I assume the Green Athenes log is gonna show an entry for
Benching: 1 x 14 @ 77kg
eh??I dunno Bossarky, grip has alot to do with it...... Do it again palms facing away from you on a standard bar 
Never one to turn down a challenge, I accept! Give me a few days.
I actually don't have access to a "standard bar". In the vid you will see there are wider hand grips but at a strange angle i.e. not straight & pointing backwards at the end. I'll try it on those.
All my pull up / chin up training is done like this (neutral grip). The only time I ever used a standard bar was at the gladiator trials when I did more than on the neutral grip gym bars so I'm confident there won't be a massive drop off in reps. We'll see I guess :pac:Neutral grip chins are hard too!14 rep breathing chins ups i like it
Jaysus, tough crowd 0 -
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Bossarky wrote:eh??
Maybe I shoulda included a smily. I'm implying you had some help beneath the view of the camera 0 -
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Do negatives after your 3, or else switch to chinups which most people are better at. When I get better at chinups my pullups increase accordingly too, though I do pullups nearly as much.Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »I also struggle to do more that 3 at a time.
I'd appreciate any advice on how to build up to doing pullups.
Can you not just do them on the other side of the bar? I know it would be thick grip pullups, but they are great too! really work the forearms well, would get your reps down (if you want them in a lower range).I actually don't have access to a "standard bar". In the vid you will see there are wider hand grips but at a strange angle i.e. not straight & pointing backwards at the end. I'll try it on those.
Also are you certain there is no straight bar on any power racks etc in the gym. Very strange to have such fancy chinup bars and no standard one. If you had a barbell on a high rack you could bend your legs and do use the barbell as a chinup bar. Or just get one at home.
I have a tricep bar and can hang it from 2 adjustable straps on my chinup bar to do neutral grip chin/pullups. It also has a stability factor which makes you work even harder.
I would engage your entire body, clench your glutes, hold your abs, cross your legs. Also are you breathing properly during reps, I was thinking it might be an issue since you were stopping to breathe. I also have problems breathing, I do weighted "rest-pause" chinup sets with 30kg now. This is doing a rep and coming off the bar completely, resting for 3seconds or so and going again for about 10 reps.I'm actually interested to get feedback on what I should improve.
I have heard people say the neutral grip is easier on the wrists for weighted work. I do neutral grip on monkey bars in a park near me, but I cannot get that full ROM you do since my shoulders hit the bar, still get a good workout. A playground down the road from me has some good thick monkey bars too, and these weird parallel bars which are almost vertical, they are just slanted around 20 degrees, you can do pullups on them so your hands are almost straight out in front of you, like you were sort of holding an unfixed steering wheel and pointing it towards your neck.
There is no real rules, esp. for the neutral grip chin/pullup, I hear pullup a little more often. If both are mentioned the 99% of the time people mean chins are palm facing and pullups are palms away. Many will call chinups pullups, it is a little less common to hear pullups called chinups. Your chin is going over in both cases and you are pulling up. Pullup makes more sense to me as you would use that to pull yourself up over a wall. That is why some military guys who will encounter obstacles will prefer pullups as a "functional" exercise (bring on the functional war!!;))I was always under the impression that the breakdown was as follows:
palms towards face = chin up
neutral grip = pull up
palms away from face = pull up
In the US marines the PFT requires "pullups", but you can use either grip you want, they make no distinction. I think you can even change midway too.
Some use alternative grips like a deadlift, one palm facing, one away. I have heard them called commando pullups.
Besides one arm pull/chins the most gruesome I have seen is rafter pullups, doing one of these is amazing, doing 18 is just ridiculous.
Think I saw some lad with a trampoline once, would be good for beginners, or trying for bar muscleups. My next goal is a bar muscle up with normal grip (not false grip).Maybe I shoulda included a smily. I'm implying you had some help beneath the view of the camera
Again 1 is great, but 27 of the badboys:eek:
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That guy was doing 18 was also training for the TV show "ninja warrior". He is also on mega long monkey bars here (warning over 5mins of it!)That is very sick. I thought Brad Johnson was one of very few people in the world doing those - but a quick look on youtube shows that there are a number of rafter pullup videos on there.
Yes, I have OACs can lead to tendonitis too.One arm pullups with a conventional grip are more of a pullup specialist feat. People who do one arm pullups tend to be interested in things like front levers and iron crosses etc.
Loads of tips here http://www.beastskills.com/tutorials.htm
Dominic Lacasse set the record for flag pull/chinups just recently
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Right. With pullups I often am not gripping at all, I do them on ledges or thick bars with my hand just over them. I can even do them on some thick doorframes.No, tried that before. Too thick to get a grip on & curves at the edges so hands slide off.
Give the tensioning a go, I read about it before and it worked well for me. I use grippers and if I lightly hold one in my "free hand" and gently tense the muscle then I find I can be stronger on the real working hand. Doing 1 arm dumbbell overhead presses I also use a gripper. I sometimes do knee raises at the same time as chinups, if you just bring and hold your knees up it forces you to contract more muscle. I also just cross my legs and tension against each other at the ankles. And grip the bar like crazy too.I try to keep my lower body "loose" when doing pull ups / chins. I thought that this would save a tiny bit of energy which may be better used in my upper body during the exercise. I did have some nice abs DOMS yesterday.
I am way off a OAC, just tested there standing on a scale and pulling with 1 arm, scale is reading 20kg. I am ~83kg and need to lose fat. One hand chinups are a far easier version to try.Can you do one arm pull/chins? Good site that beastskills. I see the guy on there recommends getting up to about a dozen chins before going for OAC. He provides some good training tips too. I keep meaning to try chins with a towel.
Some good tips here too http://stronglifts.com/how-to-do-pull-ups-and-chin-ups-with-proper-technique/Pull-up & Chin-up Technique. Start each rep from a dead hang with straight elbows. Clear the bar with your chin on every rep.
* Squeeze The Bar. And put the bar close to your fingers, not in the palm of your hand. It minimize callus formation.
* Breathe at The Bottom. It’s easier to breathe at the bottom. Take a big breath before pulling yourself up.
* Chest Up. Don’t let your shoulders go forward: it’s unhealthy for your shoulders. Lead with your chest up & keep your shoulders back.
* Look Up. Never look down during Pull-ups & Chin-ups. Look at the bar. Look where you’re pulling yourself up to.
* Elbows to The Floor. Drive with your elbows to the floor. This involves your stronger back muscles more.
* Bend Your Legs. And cross your feet. Letting your legs hang means less strength in my experience. Squeeze your glutes on the way up.
Common Errors. Most common error on Pull-ups & Chin-ups is cheating the range of motion by not going low or high enough on each rep.
* Not Straightening the Arms. Start from a dead hang with straight elbows, like on the picture above. No partial Pull-ups/Chin-ups.
* Shoulders Going Forward. It’s bad posture & bad technique. Lead with your chest up while driving your elbows to the floor.
* Using The Hips. Keep your legs inline with your torso, unless you’re doing Kipping Pull-ups.
* Chin Over Bar. Nose or forehead against the bar is a partial Pull-up/Chin-up. Chin over bar unless you’re not strong enough yet.0 -
Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 9004
I dunno Bossarky, grip has alot to do with it...... Do it again palms facing away from you on a standard bar
Here you go. 1x13 palms away for the sake of internet credibility. Brutal video but you get the picture. Joining the action again on the downward swing on rep 1.
I owe you one rep gabgab and roper
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