Woman (19) put in jail over dog leash fine

Sam Vimes

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Anyway, if a drug dealer goes free does that mean that everybody who commits a lesser crime goes free too? Cop on a bit.

No it means that the drug dealer should also be going to jail. People don't quite seem to be grasping this so I'm going to put the important part in bold to make it more apparent:


No one is saying that this woman should not have been sent to jail. They are saying that giving jail sentences for minor offences while simultaneously not giving sentences for voilent repeat offenders who break bail conditions makes no sense.
This case taken on its own makes perfect sense. Woman commits crime, gets sent to jail. Obvious! But when you look at the fact that in the next court room a man who threw someone from a bus and nearly killed him was walking free, it doesn't make sense. It shows an inconsistency in sentencing. This does not mean neither of them should be sent to jail, it means both of them should be sent to jail.

no?

PaulHardwick

Incase anyone had any doubts about why society is in its current state, look at the amount of thanks generated by post #4.

And to think; the bankers rob your pensions, the government rob your wages and yet you still behave like children.

SEPT 23 1989

PaulHardwick wrote: »

Incase anyone had any doubts about why society is in its current state, look at the amount of thanks generated by post #4.

And to think; the bankers rob your pensions, the government rob your wages and yet you still behave like children.

when the courts deal with serious crime properly including white collar crime then we can start jailing people for pathetic minor offences like this its sad to see so many people thanking that post,in the scheme of things what was done to that girl was a nonsense

PaulHardwick

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

when the courts deal with serious crime properly including white collar crime then we can start jailing people for pathetic minor offences like this its sad to see so many people thanking that post,in the scheme of things what was done to that girl was a nonsense

:rolleyes:

All hope is not lost.

Yes, a man in a suit can steal billions and swan about the Caribbean, but God forbid the pesants take their dog off the leash.

getz

PaulHardwick wrote: »

:rolleyes:

All hope is not lost.

Yes, a man in a suit can steal billions and swan about the Caribbean, but God forbid the pesants take their dog off the leash.

wasent there a case in the dublin courts of a man walking his englishbulldog around the streets with a muzzle fastened on the dog backside-[that was when the bulldog was on the dangerous dogs list] because you can not muzzle a bulldog[it hasent a muzzle]?i know the irish goverment had to change the law and take it off the list

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Didn't pay the fine, missed the court date. Regardless of walking the dog without a leash, I'm guessing she wasn't the most desireable member of society to begin with.

And why is that? Assumptions assumptions, GTFO...

+1 for the courts... now if only they sorted out the rest of the crooks of this country...

axer

Sam Vimes wrote: »

And a person with convictions for assault, including assault on a garda and breaking bail conditions isn't clear cut? A person with 80 convictions isn't clear cut?

You may not be able to "lump all cases together" but you can look at someone who has multiple convictions for violent offences and ask why he's not in jail when someone on a first offence of not paying a fine is

I don't know what case you are refering to.

This thread should be - great they are upholding the law now lets work on making the law tougher to remove loopholes and try and remobe other grey areas. The only problem is there will always be grey areas.

javaboy

PaulHardwick wrote: »

Incase anyone had any doubts about why society is in its current state, look at the amount of thanks generated by post #4.

And to think; the bankers rob your pensions, the government rob your wages and yet you still behave like children.

Casey casey you're the divil.

Banned.

Sam Vimes

axer wrote: »

I don't know what case you are refering to.

This thread should be - great they are upholding the law now lets work on making the law tougher to remove loopholes and try and remobe other grey areas. The only problem is there will always be grey areas.

I'm referring to a case mentioned earlier on in the thread. I don't even see any need to look up proof because there'll be another example of it in the news some time in the next few weeks.

I'd 90% agree with that suggested thread title except I wouldn't use the word loop holes. Those two guys who threw someone out the top window of a bus got a suspended sentence and I don't see how that could have been managed by a loop hole. I don't really know what to call it other than judges having lost touch with reality

walshb

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I'm referring to a case mentioned earlier on in the thread. I don't even see any need to look up proof because there'll be another example of it in the news some time in the next few weeks.

I'd 90% agree with that suggested thread title except I wouldn't use the word loop holes. Those two guys who threw someone out the top window of a bus got a suspended sentence and I don't see how that could have been managed by a loop hole. I don't really know what to call it other than judges having lost touch with reality

That was a disgrace, but it was still a sentence, suspended. This has been the case in Ireland for years and years and it's despicable, but in the case of this girl, she didn't get a sentence, she left the court with NO
choice but the threat of prison. Why can't folks understand this.

She had her chance and had it again and failed to pay and then the prison
sentence was impopsed. It had to be, it was all that was left and it would apply in any case involving a crime!

BTW, if those scum screw up again or fail to abide by
the suspended sentence conditions, I would imagine it's
a sentence in prison!

j1smithy

I don't see what the problem is. She went to jail for not obeying the direction of the court, ie in contempt. Even if the original offence didn't warrant a jail sentence, she committed a far more serious offence and thus desrved her nights in the cells.

It could be worse, heres a similar case from Australia. A highly respected human rights judge going to prison for 2 years for going 6mph over the limit. Well not really, he lied in court to get off and is going to prison for perjury. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7967982.stm

Like in the irish case the original offence wasn't serious, however the secondary one was and jail time was justified.

Pub07

j1smithy wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is. She went to jail for not obeying the direction of the court, ie in contempt. Even if the original offence didn't warrant a jail sentence, she committed a far more serious offence and thus desrved her nights in the cells.

It could be worse, heres a similar case from Australia. A highly respected human rights judge going to prison for 2 years for going 6mph over the limit. Well not really, he lied in court to get off and is going to prison for perjury. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7967982.stm

Like in the irish case the original offence wasn't serious, however the secondary one was and jail time was justified.

Jesus Christ, how many times do we have to say it - the problem is not the girl going to jail, she broke the law, got some time, fair enough. The problem is that while they are jailing people over stuff like TV licenses and being unable to repay credit union loans, they are letting people who commit very serious crimes walk away scot free. Why are people who assault, stab and kill others by drink driving walking away free while people who dont pay a fine for not having a dog on a leash or whatever getting jail?

walshb

Pub07 wrote: »

Jesus Christ, how many times do we have to say it - the problem is not the girl going to jail, she broke the law, got some time, fair enough. The problem is that while they are jailing people over stuff like TV licenses and being unable to repay credit union loans, they are letting people who commit very serious crimes walk away scot free. Why are people who assault, stab and kill others by drink driving walking away free while people who dont pay a fine for not having a dog on a leash or whatever getting jail?

And you are missing the point that the INITIAL penalty was NOT
a jail sentence. It was the last resort left to the system!

Sam Vimes

j1smithy wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is. She went to jail for not obeying the direction of the court, ie in contempt. Even if the original offence didn't warrant a jail sentence, she committed a far more serious offence and thus desrved her nights in the cells.

You don't see what the problem is because you skipped through 9 pages of people explaining what the problem is so you could post to tell us all that you don't know what the problem is.

walshb wrote: »

That was a disgrace, but it was still a sentence, suspended. This has been the case in Ireland for years and years and it's despicable, but in the case of this girl, she didn't get a sentence, she left the court with NO
choice but the threat of prison. Why can't folks understand this.

She had her chance and had it again and failed to pay and then the prison
sentence was impopsed. It had to be, it was all that was left and it would apply in any case involving a crime!

BTW, if those scum screw up again or fail to abide by
the suspended sentence conditions, I would imagine it's
a sentence in prison!

Yeah you would imagine but that doesn't seem to be the case. If they can find a loop hole for a consistent violent offender they should be able to find one for someone who didn't pay a fine. I don't think it should be possible to be walking the streets with 80 convictions and yet the courts find a way to make it happen!


But again, I'm not advocating that she shouldn't be sent to prison, I'm saying that so many more people should also be sent to prison if that's all it takes

Irishstabber

skyhighflyer wrote: »

I'm going to assume for my own amusement that she was a tracksuited knackbag with hoopy earrings walking a pitbull unleashed beside a park where young children were playing. The fact that I saw Dessie Ellis involved makes me think that this is lilkely to be the case.

This girl happens to be a friend of mine and infact I actually collected her from the Joy. The comment above made by this fool is highly offensive and derogatory and I wouldn't mind an apology on her behalf.
The dog is an old labrador which does nothin but sit outide the house and watch the neighbours passing by.Who here doesnt know a dog on your street which you can say ah theres xxx the local jack russell/labrador/collie?? The initial fine was basically b****x.
The girl is not a tracksuited 'kncakbag', she infact is a very decent young woman and was let out of prison early largely because she was so polite etc etc whenspeakin with the prison officials/guards.. The other reason being that the prisons are largely over populated and this was the reason she was in the medical unit. Like ffs the prison warden was dumbfounded as to why she was there...

Non payment of a fine, especially in the situation of our overcrowded prisons, does not warrant time to be served. Especially in light of the fact that others are gettin away with far more haneous crimes.
I'm not gonna delve into financial or personal circumstances but whos to say she could afford the fine in the time given and could have been out of the country for somethin other than pleasure?
I would rather think that a community service sentence would be more beneficial to us as a society and to her as a punishment for non payment rather than five days in an already overcrowded and strained prison. A prison which exposes her to all sorts of notorious female criminals.

So I ask anyone here...As a decent member of society if you ended up in the situation where you hadn't paid the fine for whatever reason. Would you rather spend time exposed to real criminals and the odd tv licence/dog leash fine absconder like yourself or pay your dues by doing somethin constructive??

walshb

I for one wouldn't cast such aspersions on her character for simply
failing to pay a fine. It could happen to anyone
from any walk of life. I still think she did herself
no favors when she didn't abide by the law and pay the fine.

Surely she had to expect some repercussions?

Jail was one option open to the judge and he/she used
it.

Bottom line is that she committed a crime and was punished
for it after she exasperated the criminal sytem

Sam Vimes

Irishstabber wrote: »

The girl is not a tracksuited 'kncakbag', she infact is a very decent young woman

I'm finding it hard to accept a character reference from someone called IrishStabber

Irishstabber

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I'm finding it hard to accept a character reference from someone called IrishStabber

:rolleyes: knew that would get me into trouble...:p

I understand not payin the fine deserves punishment as I said but I dont believe it should have been jail time. Like I said it was a needless strain on jail space. Community service would be far better penance. And as a last resort Jail.

T-Square

We have dog wardens?

Near my childs creche theres a big dog without a leesh,
who can I report this to? to get something/anything done about it?

ceegee

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Yeah but then you have to decide which gang to join quick before Schillinger gets your ass.

Yeah, not says welcome to Em City like being sodomised by an Aryan

arybvtcw0eolkf

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I'm finding it hard to accept a character reference from someone called IrishStabber

And he's in FINGLAS too!.. Maybe we can get him to call around to 'ol Degsy :P

.

cowzerp

Irishstabber wrote: »

I'm not gonna delve into financial or personal circumstances but whos to say she could afford the fine in the time given and could have been out of the country for somethin other than pleasure?

Well anyone could say that she may not of been able to afford it, but then anyone can say she just did not want to pay it, and anyone could say she was out of the country for reasons other than pleasure, without any actual facts your post is pointless, coulda woulda shoulda!

Oh and as far as giving her community service, why? so she can not do that and go back to court costing more money to the tax payer only to end up in jail anyway.. she messed up-end of.

Sam Vimes

cowzerp wrote: »

Well anyone could say that she may not of been able to afford it, but then anyone can say she just did not want to pay it, and anyone could say she was out of the country for reasons other than pleasure, without any actual facts your post is pointless, coulda woulda shoulda!

Oh and as far as giving her community service, why? so she can not do that and go back to court costing more money to the tax payer only to end up in jail anyway.. she messed up-end of.

Irishstabber's suggestions are probably more than coulda woulda shoulda since he said the person is a friend of his. He might be lying but I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt


And your point is ridiculous anyway. You don't get to just not do community service. The gardai know where you live and if they can find you to bring you to court, they can bring you to your community service too

cowzerp

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Irishstabber's suggestions are probably more than coulda woulda shoulda since he said the person is a friend of his. He might be lying but I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt


And your point is ridiculous anyway. You don't get to just not do community service. The gardai know where you live and if they can find you to bring you to court, they can bring you to your community service too

He did not state any facts, he just said she might not of been able and she might have not been on hols-did not say she was on personal business and she had not got the money.

and the guards cant just bring you to community service and whip you till you work! otherwise they could just make you pay the fine-your point is ridicilus..

kraggy

seamus wrote: »

Woman gets fined, doesn't pay it, spends time in jail.

Where's the outrage here? She broke the law, she failed to obey the direction of the court, so she went to jail. Nothing has failed or gone wrong here, in fact everything has gone right.
Which means she won't forget to pay the next fine. Rehabilitation complete. A success for the justice system.

That would be all well and good if there was adequate accommodation in Irish prisons.

But judges have cited the lack of capacity for not being able to send people convicted of more serious offences to prison.

Yet they found room for this young girl.

Absolute disgrace.

Sam Vimes

cowzerp wrote: »

He did not state any facts, he just said she might not of been able and she might have not been on hols-did not say she was on personal business and she had not got the money.

and the guards cant just bring you to community service and whip you till you work! otherwise they could just make you pay the fine-your point is ridicilus..

Right so no one's ever done community service because you can just say you don't feel like it?

No one's ever thought to themselves "Hey if I don't do this I'll be going to jail so maybe I should do it"?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Throwing this girl in jail (to me) is just throwing good money after bad.

As a tax payer I feel my money (taxes) is better spent utilising the community service scheme - money well spent = justice served.

.

sticker

steo87 wrote: »

Why do you say that? Because it says she's from Finglas? - If that's your basis for saying that then there is something seriously wrong with you.

Twat