Appropriate opening bid

sbudnikblues

Hi,

Just saw a house that I really like. It's really, really old and every inch of the house will have to be renovated. What percentage of the asking price is appropriate for underbidding?

Is it outrageous to bid 25% less than the asking price?

Need advice...

jetski

Try,

leave about 3 weeks in between bids and see what happens

ntlbell

there was some good advice i seen on the pin recently.

work out how much the house is worth to you.

give the figure to the EA and tell them not to contact you unless it's to accept the offer and leave it stew.

prevents all the phantom bidder nonsense and saves you, the EA and the owner wasting any time

mdebets

ntlbell wrote: »

there was some good advice i seen on the pin recently.

work out how much the house is worth to you.

give the figure to the EA and tell them not to contact you unless it's to accept the offer and leave it stew.

prevents all the phantom bidder nonsense and saves you, the EA and the owner wasting any time

good advice, I would however say don't give the EA the price you are willing to pay, as this leaves you no room to negotiate. Give at least 10% less or even more, especially if the house is on the market long enough.

Agent J

Prices are still over valued in a lot of cases.

Go 40%. Worst they can say is no and then ask them for a counter offer.

You as the buyer have all the cards. Use them.

Senna

ntlbell wrote: »

tell them not to contact you unless it's to accept the offer and leave it stew.

From previous experience, try telling the missus that they wont be phoning to tell you even if they don't accept, i'd have to tie her down to stop her phoning them.:D

But it is excellent advice, anything that lets the EA know your serious and not willing to listen to their BS, plus its too easy to increase an offer by 5-10k when your talking 000's of thousands. Pick a price and stick with it, no negotiations needed.

leeroybrown

sbudnikblues wrote: »

Is it outrageous to bid 25% less than the asking price?

Not at all. At the moment it's normal if not a little generous in some cases.

Duckjob

leeroybrown wrote: »

Not at all. At the moment it's normal if not a little generous in some cases.

+1

I'd also say feel free to go a lot higher 25% off if the asking price looks inflated in comparison with similar properties in the area.

Some jokers are factoring 10-20% into their asking price now to try to engineer getting the price they want. Just say no...

ntlbell

mdebets wrote: »

good advice, I would however say don't give the EA the price you are willing to pay, as this leaves you no room to negotiate. Give at least 10% less or even more, especially if the house is on the market long enough.

It's designed so there is no room to negotiate part of the beauty no?

Kipperhell

Agent J wrote: »

Prices are still over valued in a lot of cases.

Go 40%. Worst they can say is no and then ask them for a counter offer.

You as the buyer have all the cards. Use them.

The worst they can do is say get lost and refuse to talk to you. This does happen even in bad time. I think if you really think the value is that much over priced by all means go ahead.

Work out the price you think it is worth based on rental prices in the area other properties on the market etc... You should be able to actually find out prices that actually were sold at. Research is the key as opposed to random percentage values.

There is house on my road that is way over priced when compared to the immediate area and will have to come down 40% at least to sell but there is another around the corner that is a better house and probably only has to come down 20%. Your best plan is to observe the market in a specific area and get a house that has been on the market a while. They are more likely to come down quicker on the price if they don't you know why it has been on the market so long.

sbudnikblues

Thanks for all the advice lads. Will put in a bid tomorrow and see what happens. Cheers.

ntlbell

Senna wrote: »

From previous experience, try telling the missus that they wont be phoning to tell you even if they don't accept, i'd have to tie her down to stop her phoning them.:D

ye can't legislate for an over anxious missus

jetski

Let us know how you get on. realisitcally you might manage 7-10 percent.

ntlbell

jetski wrote: »

Let us know how you get on. realisitcally you might manage 7-10 percent.

based on?

jetski

common sence

leeroybrown

jetski wrote: »

Let us know how you get on. realisitcally you might manage 7-10 percent.

jetski wrote: »

common sence

A reduction of 7-10% might make common sense against a common sense asking price. Now all we need to do is find some common sense asking prices out there. It's a buyers market...

ntlbell

jetski wrote: »

common sence

Oh, no actual facts just phrases.

When did common sense dictate anything to do with property

surely it's the complete lack of it that has us in the situation we're in now?

Duckjob

jetski wrote: »

Let us know how you get on. realisitcally you might manage 7-10 percent.

Jetski, you're completely contradicting yourself.

In your other posts (post purchase ) you've been advising people that there's great value to be had in the current market. Your point I believe was that as its a buyers market, there are big discounts to be had off asking prices at the moment.

Yet here, you're telling the OP that he "might" get 7-10%. Whoopyfúckindoo. Where's the "value in that?



OP, start very low with your bid. Expect the EA to look appalled. If he doesn't you've offered way too much.

Remember that buyers are like golddust at the moment, so even if your bid is too low for them, to them you're a potential buyer with an expression of interest and more than likely they will come back to you to try to negotiate.

Once you've started low, how much you're willing to move depends on how much you want to buy right now, and where you think the market is headed.

I know where I think the market is headed, and personally I believe bids seen as "cheeky" today will be the seen as normal in 9-12 mths time.

jetski

your assuming prices will keep going down andyes thats 10% on top of the maybe 30% thats already come off... so your not far off a half price house over peak prices.... and try gets your facts right, i said their is good value if you look long and hard.

Duckjob

jetski wrote: »

your assuming prices will keep going down andyes thats 10% on top of the maybe 30% thats already come off... so your not far off a half price house over peak prices.... and try gets your facts right, i said their is good value if you look long and hard.

Funny you should mention facts, since you didn't ask for any from the OP about the property before trying to set his expectation at < 10% off asking

kippy

Just as a matter of interest how many people who have already offered advise here have:
a: Bought a house ever
b: Bought a house in the past 18 months

ntlbell

kippy wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest how many people who have already offered advise here have:
a: Bought a house ever
b: Bought a house in the past 18 months

Why is it relevant?

kippy

ntlbell wrote: »

Why is it relevant?

Sometimes it good to take advice from someone who has been in a similiar position recently to see how they got on.
Its also useful to have an idea in general or buying a house when giving this type of advice (showing you know the factors that need to be taken into account)

Just things I feel the OP should be aware of.
Kippy

ntlbell

kippy wrote: »

Sometimes it good to take advice from someone who has been in a similiar position recently to see how they got on.
Its also useful to have an idea in general or buying a house when giving this type of advice (showing you know the factors that need to be taken into account)

Just things I feel the OP should be aware of.
Kippy

Why does one have to buy a house to know the facts tho?

Do you only learn the facts AFTER you buy the house? that's a bit backwards no?

Do you ask people to declare there exp in other fora?

like computers and technology?

Personal issues?

etc?

kippy

ntlbell wrote: »

Why does one have to buy a house to know the facts tho?

Do you only learn the facts AFTER you buy the house? that's a bit backwards no?

Do you ask people to declare there exp in other fora?

like computers and technology?

Personal issues?

etc?

It helps to have SOME practical experience in the field before you go advising someone.
+ No one here really knows enough (and hasnt asked) about either the house or the OP's situation to advise him properly on what he should be doing.
People talk about offering this and that and the theory behind it, which a lot of the time is a long way away from the practicalities.

Id ask someone to declare their experience if I thought the opinions offered were a bit off the mark of that the OP may be getting information which may not help him as much as he is led to believe.
This time however I am interested to see how many people here have actually been in both situations which I asked for information on.

ntlbell

kippy wrote: »

It helps to have SOME practical experience in the field before you go advising someone.
+ No one here really knows enough (and hasnt asked) about either the house or the OP's situation to advise him properly on what he should be doing.
People talk about offering this and that and the theory behind it, which a lot of the time is a long way away from the practicalities.

Id ask someone to declare their experience if I thought the opinions offered were a bit off the mark of that the OP may be getting information which may not help him as much as he is led to believe.

Can you point out some opinions that were off the mark and maybe people can clear them up for you?

kippy

ntlbell wrote: »

Can you point out some opinions that were off the mark and maybe people can clear them up for you?

Sorry, I edited the post just after that......
Nothing too off the mark, great theory being posted.
Kippy

ntlbell

As I have stated on many threads like this

there's no real point asking us what a house is worth or what to bid

we don't know anything about not only the house but the siutation of the owners, are they working? when did they buy? where they left the house 3 years ago by a diying relative? did they buy it 30 years ago?

there is so many things that can completely change the situation

so if people want to ask a random question that has no real answer then surely they just expecting opinion right? based on what they put before us?

that's what they're getting.

I'm a house owner didn't buy in the last 18 months am I allowed to continue to post?

cls

ntlbell wrote: »

As I have stated on many threads like this

there's no real point asking us what a house is worth or what to bid

we don't know anything about not only the house but the siutation of the owners, are they working? when did they buy? where they left the house 3 years ago by a diying relative? did they buy it 30 years ago?

there is so many things that can completely change the situation

so if people want to ask a random question that has no real answer then surely they just expecting opinion right? based on what they put before us?

that's what they're getting.

I'm a house owner didn't buy in the last 18 months am I allowed to continue to post?

I thought anyone who buys now is an idiot or words to that effect? Period.

ntlbell

cls wrote: »

I thought anyone who buys now is an idiot or words to that effect? Period.

I don't recall saying that, can you quote me?

And if I did, how does my above post go against that?

kippy

ntlbell wrote: »

As I have stated on many threads like this

there's no real point asking us what a house is worth or what to bid

we don't know anything about not only the house but the siutation of the owners, are they working? when did they buy? where they left the house 3 years ago by a diying relative? did they buy it 30 years ago?

there is so many things that can completely change the situation

so if people want to ask a random question that has no real answer then surely they just expecting opinion right? based on what they put before us?

that's what they're getting.

I'm a house owner didn't buy in the last 18 months am I allowed to continue to post?

First of all, I didnt say anywhere that people who didnt have houses couldnt post advice. Apologies if it came across that way.
It is POINTLESS giving advice or for that matter asking for it, without the most relevant facts being given or asked for.
Its akin to going onto the computers and tech forum and asking "My Internet Is Gone, any idea how I can fix it".
First of all, you need someone to come along who knows what they are doing to reply to that question, the first thing they would say is that they had NOWHERE near enough information to give some advice. Then you could have someone come along who doesnt really know that much about IT, but has read in a magazine that the best thing to do when your internet is down is to call your Broadband provider.
Obviously not a direct comparison but, someone posting a single question on a forum is not exempt from being asked for more information in order for another person to make a better qualified piece of advice, whether they are experts in that field or not.

It really was just out of interest I was asking those two questions, nothing more sinister.

Kippy

Iago

cls wrote: »

I thought anyone who buys now is an idiot or words to that effect? Period.

Not if they're buying a home that's ideal for them not just now but into the foreseeable future. If the home is right and the price matches the value you place on it then you'd be an idiot not to buy it.

kippy

cls wrote: »

I thought anyone who buys now is an idiot or words to that effect? Period.

I wouldnt say that. It all depends on your circumstances and the circumstances of the property you are buying.

cls

Kippy, Iago, I agree with you completely. I should have used the sarcastic smiley. I was referring to ntlbells previous posts where he was suggesting that you would be stupid to buy now, no matter what.

ntlbell

cls wrote: »

Kippy, Iago, I agree with you completely. I should have used the sarcastic smiley. I was referring to ntlbells previous posts where he was suggesting that you would be stupid to buy now, no matter what.

No, and if you want to discuss it there is one derailed thread all ready without derailing this one.

I said it doesn't make financial sense to buy into an OVERPRICED and FALLING housing market.

What I have said thread after thread.

If you can afford to buy and buy afford I mean you have 20% deposit can get the mortgage over 15-20 years.

Don't want to move for the next 10-20 years

have stress tested the repayments against multiple interest hikes.

etc etc it might be worth looking at.

That doesn't mean it would still make financial sense to wait if you can.

There's not many situations I can think of if any where you can't.

now stop talking nonsense or reply to all questions and not pick parts you want to answer.

TheCityManager

sbudnikblues wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice lads. Will put in a bid tomorrow and see what happens. Cheers.

Any feedback???

sbudnikblues

Hi, yes, some feedback.

I put in a low, very low bid (32% lower) considering the house is in dire need of repair and can't actually be moved into without considerable renovation. I think I had a chance until...

...until there was a bid that was E70,000 euro more than ours. And I thought, wtf? Who in their right minds would do that? Don't they know how to bargain? Or bid.

I found my answer shortly. The counter-bidders are builders/developers. To stay in the trade and to make some money, they're buying very old property, like the one we had our eyes on, and fixing them up (and I wonder if they'll do a good job at it) and reselling them for a really high mark-up.

So in all honesty I don't think we got the house although the EA has to get back to us with the absolute "it's going to the builders." Why shouldn't it? THey offered more. E70,000 more, the a-holes.

-S

jetski

what was the asking price?

ntlbell

sbudnikblues wrote: »

Hi, yes, some feedback.

I put in a low, very low bid (32% lower) considering the house is in dire need of repair and can't actually be moved into without considerable renovation. I think I had a chance until...

...until there was a bid that was E70,000 euro more than ours. And I thought, wtf? Who in their right minds would do that? Don't they know how to bargain? Or bid.

I found my answer shortly. The counter-bidders are builders/developers. To stay in the trade and to make some money, they're buying very old property, like the one we had our eyes on, and fixing them up (and I wonder if they'll do a good job at it) and reselling them for a really high mark-up.

So in all honesty I don't think we got the house although the EA has to get back to us with the absolute "it's going to the builders." Why shouldn't it? THey offered more. E70,000 more, the a-holes.

-S

call the EA, tell them your bid expires in 5 days and would like a final answer.

bobbysands81

sbudnikblues wrote: »

Hi, yes, some feedback.

I put in a low, very low bid (32% lower) considering the house is in dire need of repair and can't actually be moved into without considerable renovation. I think I had a chance until...

...until there was a bid that was E70,000 euro more than ours. And I thought, wtf? Who in their right minds would do that? Don't they know how to bargain? Or bid.

I found my answer shortly. The counter-bidders are builders/developers. To stay in the trade and to make some money, they're buying very old property, like the one we had our eyes on, and fixing them up (and I wonder if they'll do a good job at it) and reselling them for a really high mark-up.

So in all honesty I don't think we got the house although the EA has to get back to us with the absolute "it's going to the builders." Why shouldn't it? THey offered more. E70,000 more, the a-holes.

-S

That sounds dodgy to me mate!

Builders of all people know that there is a lot of room for movement in prices when buying property at the moment. I'm very surprised that some builders are buying to renovate to sell on at the mo given that prices are falling throughout the country. Is the house a completely unique type of house?

Don't increase your bid under any circumstances... or if you do increase your bid if these builders happen to put out at the last minute reduce your bid to your original one that was 32% lower.

sbudnikblues

We're expecting feedback on Wednesday. I'll find out what the "builders" intend to do. If they pull out, then I'll try to reduce the price, but I don't know how the EA will respond to that. I suppose it's worth a try anyway. It's a Victorian period house so I can kind of see why they would be interested in it, because if it is done up nicely, there may be a good return in it for them.

Duckjob

sbudnikblues wrote: »

If they pull out, then I'll try to reduce the price,

Yoda wrote:

No. No "Try". Do, or Do Not. There is no "Try".

Seriously, what you're willing to pay is 100% up to you, not the EA. Decide that figure in your head. If thats the bid you've already given to the EA then stick to that, and tell him thats your final offer.

Unless you can't bear the idea of losing the property, now the time to play some hardball and call his bluff.

Sounds like bs to me.

sbudnikblues

So we put in a bid for the asking price. Quite a generous gesture in these times. Doesn't matter. Someone else (a third party) outbid us the other day, placing a higher bid than the asking price. Today I got a call from the EA saying there have been 9 (NINE) bids on the place, a newer one being placed today. How is this happening in this day and age. I told the EA we'll watch the game from the sidelines but we're not interested in pursuing this. He told us that he completely understood but he'll keep us posted as he has seen several clients being unable to secure a mortgage from banks (even for housing that was E190,000). So if all bids fall through there's still hope for us. I'm not holding my breath though. On to better and brighter things.

DJDC

I wouldn't believe a word he says. "Builders" putting in a 70k over-bid at this time is total BS. EA's should be treated like the lads selling fireworks on Henry street at Halloween. Take everything they say with a seriously large pince of salt.

Don't be surprised for the EA to get back to you in the near future asking are still interested :rolleyes:

They are doing you a favour by the way. In my opinion it would be risky to buy now before Dec Budget brings in property tax, higher income taxes etc.