How 'physical' is too much?

LegacyUser

Firstly, sorry if this isn't very well-formulated, or is a bit incoherent. I'm pretty drunk, after an after-work drinks session went on til now. I'm freaking out with anger, cos I had a row with my boyfriend which I feel completely over-stepped the mark, but I don't know if I'm taking it too far or...

Long story short. Boyfriend and I are together a bit over a year. We live in a very patriarchal society (not Ireland) where sh*t I would never let a guy away with at home becomes normal here. Tonight, after we were both drinking since 5pm (it's now just gone midnight), we got into a row on the way home where he shoved his hand in my face. He didn't hit me, he just kinda shoved me away. Anyway, this was at the end of a bad day in life/work, where we were both stressed adn tired etc. But i'm so upset by how he treated me just now, I'm so angry.

A big part of it I suppose is the fact that we're from different cultures where we have different perceptions of what's ok physical contact between a guy & a girl in a fight (my opinion always used to be that it was zero... I've clearly moved passsed that point...)

Anyway, sorry for a drunken blurb, but I'm upset right now and feeling really alone..;

MIN2511

That's quite physical, you alone can decide what you want to do...

1. Stay with him: what next? He could hit you?
2. Break up with him: there's life after a relationship you know

Jimmy Bottlehead

Depends what preceded it. He didn't hit you, so i wouldn't put it into that catagory at all. Clarify that with yourself so you don't see your boyfriend as a womanbeater.

But this is obviously an issue... you two need to talk it out and see what it ok and what is not.

LegacyUser

hi, thanks for the quick replies. I know you're right, we need to talk abut this, but somehow when the heat of the moment is gone, we don't end up talking about this. He's meant to be staying to my place for the next few weeks (cos he had to move out of his previous flat and doesn't have another sorted) but when we were fighting I told him to f*** off away and he's now gone, I don't know where he is, I'm stressed and partly still mad at him for this bullsh*t behaviour, getting in my face, and partly I'm worried about where he is and where he';s gnna sleep tonight, etc...

Jimmy Bottlehead

Unregistered wrote: »

hi, thanks for the quick replies. I know you're right, we need to talk abut this, but somehow when the heat of the moment is gone, we don't end up talking about this. He's meant to be staying to my place for the next few weeks (cos he had to move out of his previous flat and doesn't have another sorted) but when we were fighting I told him to f*** off away and he's now gone, I don't know where he is, I'm stressed and partly still mad at him for this bullsh*t behaviour, getting in my face, and partly I'm worried about where he is and where he';s gnna sleep tonight, etc...

Just ring. Don't make out that you're ringing because its your fault, but offer an olive branch and see if he wants to try to sort it out. If not, then leave him to it.

couerdelion

If you're worried about him drop him a text and ask him to come back to yours, and ask if he's ok. It'll break the ice and you might get an apology straight away.

To me any contact is too much. But it's not in the league of wife beater and it doesn't mean he more likely to hit you either. You need to sit down and talk about it. That's what makes a relationship work, being able to freely communicate.

CDfm

I wont preach here but you do sound lovely -drinking from 5pm etc.

In DV situatons men and women abuse in equal numbers and the biggie is mutual violence.So the answer is zero from both genders -and that means you sweetie.

So while any physical violence is too much -the idea that you can have a huge drunken row without escallation into violence is not plausable.Neither is the idea you can goad someone to the point of violence and absolve yourself by blaming it on cultural issues and patriarchy- when you both were drunk is laughable or the idea that you can mix it up physically and are blameless on retaliation is a silly assumption.

Alcohol drops all kinds of inhibitions and you were just a couple of drunks having a drunken fight.

liah

CDfm wrote: »

I wont preach here but you do sound lovely -drinking from 5pm etc.

In DV situatons men and women abuse in equal numbers and the biggie is mutual violence.So the answer is zero from both genders -and that means you sweetie.

So while any physical violence is too much -the idea that you can have a huge drunken row without escallation into violence is not plausable.Neither is the idea you can goad someone to the point of violence and absolve yourself by blaming it on cultural issues and patriarchy- when you both were drunk is laughable or the idea that you can mix it up physically and are blameless on retaliation is a silly assumption.

Alcohol drops all kinds of inhibitions and you were just a couple of drunks having a drunken fight.

In NO WAY does being drunk excuse being physical! EVER.

My father used to come home drunk all the time and beat the tar out of my mother in front of me, is that excusable because he was drunk and they were fighting?

Absolutely ridiculous.

Plenty of people can manage drunken rows without resorting to violence or physicalities.

Anyway, as for the OP.. if it made you uncomfortable and felt aggressive you need to speak to him about it and tell him this is not okay behaviour, even when drink has been consumed. But I don't suggest contacting him first, wait for him to contact you and then try to calmly sort it out with him when you've both come around.

CDfm

liah wrote: »

In NO WAY does being drunk excuse being physical! EVER.

Liah - she was drinking for 7 hours and was by her admission pretty drunk while posting and without drink the situation would probably not have occured.

Its not your Dad we are talking about and while in no way I am I attempting to excuse the situation I am pointing out that drink played a major part here and if she engages in mutual violence she is just a cullpable

There should be no double standard and Im zero tolerence on DV whatever the gender of the perpetrator.

Sorry about your Mum -not nice for her or you to be a witness.

liah

She did not touch him or get physical with him. He got physical with her. How does a double standard apply here?

Drinking is drinking is drinking. You can only really get to a certain level of drunk before you pass out, really, and she obviously was coherent enough to type this out in a readable manner.

You cannot excuse physical behaviour, whether drink is involved or not. That's like excusing people for cheating on their partners after a few at the club, or alcoholics coming home and beating their partners or children. It just doesn't work. There is. No. Excuse. Full stop. You saying if you were twisted enough and shoved your OH it would be excusable because you were having a drunken row?

CDfm

liah wrote: »

She did not touch him or get physical with him. He got physical with her. How does a double standard apply here?

Drinking is drinking is drinking. You can only really get to a certain level of drunk before you pass out, really, and she obviously was coherent enough to type this out in a readable manner.

You cannot excuse physical behaviour, whether drink is involved or not. That's like excusing people for cheating on their partners after a few at the club, or alcoholics coming home and beating their partners or children. It just doesn't work. There is. No. Excuse. Full stop. You saying if you were twisted enough and shoved your OH it would be excusable because you were having a drunken row?

I am agreeing with you that there is no excuse -zero tolerence.

The guy doesnt act that way sober and they don't act that way sober together - so why not conclude that alchohol has not been a factor.Its obvious.

There is a link between DV and drink and its not helpful to the OP to ignore it.

star-pants

You were both drunk, had a row and he pushed you out of his face?
Ok not that it's ok to do that, but he didn't hit you though?

I've worked in a nightclub and I've seen very drunken couples have arguements and guys or girls pushing the other away, whether by the face or elsewhere. Again not excusing it at all but it is semi-common among drunken couples/friends.

I would suggest like others have and ring him (not to apologise, as there's nothing really to apologise for) but to say that he's still welcome to stay with you. Otherwise you're just going to worry about him.
Also perhaps look at the drinking pattern - you mention that you did believe zero contact in a guy/girl fight but that you've changed your mind on that - is that because of this or other rows?

LegacyUser

please forever remeber this... dont waste anymore peoples time with your attention seeking nonsense..nobody hit you...nobody tried to hit you...grow up

CDfm

star-pants wrote: »

I've worked in a nightclub and I've seen very drunken couples have arguements and guys or girls pushing the other away, whether by the face or elsewhere. Again not excusing it at all but it is semi-common among drunken couples/friends.

OP - did you do the push and shove kind of thing and what happened?

I am not blaming you if you did just think it would be helpful to tease out how an evening out got to such an unhappy place.

Joey the lips

The op mentions various variables which we do not really have the experience to comment on

1, Different country 2. Different culture

Is she writing cause she is irish and wants an irish perspective or is she writing cause she knows how it will be judged by us and wants us to confirm what she already knows or is she simply writing cause she is drunk as she say's and today will ask wtf was I thinking?

I dont know!

Many relationship go through violence because of drink if drink is the problem cut it out. Simple! the relationship might be perfect without drink.

From my prespective any type of violence is wrong. It effects the receiver, it effects the kids!

If you in another land and you feel lost because of violence come back. You might have nothing but you will have your sanity and pride which will be slowly eroded away by violence.

Lastly how physical is too much. The answer is simple "The day the word came into the relationship"

All the best

cantdecide

What would be very relevant to me is if he had to reach to push you away. If he reached across 3-4 feet to push you, IMO he was the aggressor and I would be very very worried.

If you were in his face/ in his personal space, goading him and maybe shouting at him, you would have been the aggressor, IMO but he is still 100% wrong to put his hands on you.

Wagon

cantdecide wrote: »

If you were in his face/ in his personal space, goading him and maybe shouting at him, you would have been the aggressor, IMO but he is still 100% wrong to put his hands on you.

Well...I wouldn't be so sure. Society looks on men who hit women as one of the lower forms of life and im included in that catagory myself, but it doesn't work the other way round. Men are expected to just take the physical abuse.

I remeber i was stnading outside a pub in the early hours of the morning around closing time. This lad was standing outside having a chat with his mate and then this girl walksout, lets out a HUGE shriek and runs at him smacking him with his coat and pushing him against the wall. He didn't retaliate, just kept shouting at her to leve him alone. she didn't, but id left then. I dunno what else she managed to do. I just hoped he was alright, she was one complete looper.
It got me thinking, what if he was as drunk as that stupid bitch and did that to her? People would have been shoving him off her fast, possibly punching him in the process. I can understand that reaction as men are physically stronger than women and potentially do more damage but a simple swift kick to the ballswith high heels is all it takes to nearly castrate a bloke. The double standards thing is definately prevelent in terms of physical voilence. So as far as I'm concerned, anyone who resorts to voilence (unless it's in self defence) is a scumbag. Men and women.

If it was a case where he'd reached over to you and pushed your face then it's halfway to hitting you. but if you were bullying the bloke and doing a similar performance to that nut job i saw outside the pub then it would count as self defence. I'm waitng for people to say "Call the police!" as it usually happens in these threads but if you could possibly give us a little more detail in why he pushed you it would help us get a better understanding.

CDfm

On Tuesday 5th July 2005 the National Crime Council (NCC), in association with the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI), published the first ever large scale study undertaken to give an overview of the nature, extent and impact of domestic abuse against women and men in intimate partner relationships in Ireland. Among the notable findings are:

[* 15% of women and 6% of men suffer severe domestic abuse
[*] 29% of women and 26% of men suffer domestic abuse when severe and
minor abuse are combined
[*] 13% of women and 13% of men suffer physical abuse
[*] 29% of women (1 in 3) and only 5% of men (1 in 20) report to the Gardaí
[*] 49% of admissions to women’s refuges are Travellers (according to the 2002 census Travellers account for just 0.6% of the entire population)
[*] Of those turned away from refuges, 46% were for reasons other than
the refuges being full.
[/LIST]
]According to the Government Departments (Health and Justice) who have responsibilities in this area, the NCC study is the definitive piece of research on domestic violence in this country.

These are the official statistics


Now Im not saying the OP is like this-just that its great to see her posting honestly.