Not fair in job interviews and war

dellas1979

Did an interview yesterday. Public sector job (I am contract and believe me I am not one of the ones on the big wages). Have 2 1/2 years experience in the job and am almost upto Masters level in education.

The job was between me and another girl. She has 7 years experience, no education (she is permanent). She initially said she was not interested in the job. Then she said she was going for it but really couldnt give a toss.

My interview went terrible. Woke up with a cold (terrible sore throath) and went downhill from there. My manager asked me some awful questions - as if to catch me out. We got the results today and the other girl got the job. they like her. Public sector are a strange crowd (Ive been there for 3 years and there is absolutely no professionalism there at all). She got the job. No surprises there. The managers think she is great. I was criticised in the interview for being on a short-working week to complete masters. I had to defend myself by saying that I have to do these things to keep compeditive in the work force. That I am on contract and have to work to pay for education.

They just glared at me. Think I was there to just make up the numbers.
Anyone else any words of wisdom or anything cause am pretty p*ssed off right now. Thanks.

road_high

In my experience "years service" seems to count for everything in the public sector.
Way above ability, education or anyhting else.
The unions seems to decide how jobs are advertised rather than on a needs basis. And I work in a semi state body for 2 years too so I have seen it happen. Particularly with the likes of permanent jobs or those viewed as being especially "good numbers".

InReality

Public sector interviews are all about "competencies".
Education level unless you can tie it in to competencies makes no difference.
basically they can't ( in theory ) give you can extra credit for anything apart from the competencies.

That said i've have v professional interviewers for an AO level job , and the complete opposite for an EO level - the glaring you mentioned for example. I was honestly very surprised by it.

If your going for another job , do some research on comp interviews , and keep in mind you'll only have 30/35 mins to get your points across.

ixus

dellas1979 wrote: »

....I had to defend myself by saying that I have to do these things to keep compeditive in the work force. That I am on contract and have to work to pay for education.....

It's competitive.

The impression I always got from friends in the public sector was that progression by way of being different/innovative was not the way to go.

Also, aren't interviews supposed to be hard?

John Mason

I work in the public sector and lenght of service has nothing to with whether you get a job or not neither has previous experience or qualifications.

its whether your face fits or not. i got told at my last feedback that i needed more experience in difference areas of the company. i asked how i could this as if i didnt get promotions or moved around - HR asked i know it is difficult

so he changed tack and said when you finish your degree you will be in a better position - so i ask how come blah got the job with no relavent work experience or qualification.

change of tack again, lenght of service accounts for 25% of the marking system - so i ask i have 2.5 years more experience then blah

HR Manager - well you done a brilliant interview - i asked if my interview was so brilliant why didnt i get the job

he shake my hand and said better luck next time


public sector interviews are a load of ****e. they already know who has the job and the interview is just to make them look good

an_other

Interview is just formality. Who was it cheaper for them to give the job to?

dellas1979

It would have been cheaper to give the job to me.

Yes, interviews are hard but not to this extent. There were 4 people on the panel....2 externals...2 internal managers. Manager A (my direct boss) asked "What is the procedure for......" and I gave the answer, until Manager B said "I dont think what you said is correct". Manager A jumped in and said "Yes, she is correct". That really throne me.

That is exactly how I felt, that they knew who they wanted for the job - heck the girl whos position it was for even coached her and coached her well. I asked her about things to do with the job but got no where. There you go. Lesson learnt. I hate public sector. They are way over paid and do nothing. Id go so far as to say they are lazy. They bitch about people constantly (I had an argument with colleagues about this a few months back and I was told I was in the wrong). No professionalism. They stick together in their tiny little pathetic groups never going anywhere. Yet they are proud of all this and the "back in the 80s and 90s noone wanted to work in the public sector and now everyone is at us...." They do nothing like!

InReality

Can I ask what area in the public sector the OP's interview was in ?
& the same to fluffy bunny ?

SerialComplaint

dellas1979 wrote: »

I was criticised in the interview for being on a short-working week to complete masters. I had to defend myself by saying that I have to do these things to keep compeditive in the work force. That I am on contract and have to work to pay for education.

What exactly did they say here? To criticise anyone during interview is bad practice.

dellas1979 wrote: »

That is exactly how I felt, that they knew who they wanted for the job - heck the girl whos position it was for even coached her and coached her well.

Perhaps she took the initiative and went and asked for some coaching/advice?

I hate public sector. They are way over paid and do nothing. Id go so far as to say they are lazy. They bitch about people constantly (I had an argument with colleagues about this a few months back and I was told I was in the wrong). No professionalism. They stick together in their tiny little pathetic groups never going anywhere. Yet they are proud of all this and the "back in the 80s and 90s noone wanted to work in the public sector and now everyone is at us...." They do nothing like!

It's a bit hard to take this rant seriously. Aren't you one of the 'they' that you complain about. Obviously, you don't feel strongly enough about how much you hate it to just get out of there and do something else.

First thing you should do is look for your interview scores, so you can see exactly where you did well, and where you did badly.

OP, i don't know what you mean by "not fair"?

she had 7 years experience and obviously did a better interview.. sounds fair to me.

Bozacke

I have to agree that many of the interviews in the public sector are already decided on before the interview. I recently had an interview for a Public Sector job and for the 5 key areas needed for the job, 4 of them I had a significant amount of experience in and the the 5th area I had limited experience, but all of the necessary knowledge. During the interview 90% of the questions were in the 5th area, my weakest. Although I felt that I did a great interview, considering how the really focused on my weakest area I knew I wasn't getting the job. When I got PFO letter and the interview score card, I couldn't believe the scoring they gave me. Areas 1-4 they scored me a 12/20 saying only 60% competent, where I'd consider myself an expert in those areas and one of the areas they didn't even ask any relevant questions and area 5 they scored me at 35% and a minimum of 40% was needed for each of the key areas. I find it hard to beleive they could have scored me so poorly in any of the areas and these results only tell me one thing and I don't see it as a reflection of myself.

leeroybrown

Bozacke wrote: »

Areas 1-4 they scored me a 12/20 saying only 60% competent, where I'd consider myself an expert in those areas and one of the areas they didn't even ask any relevant questions and area 5 they scored me at 35% and a minimum of 40% was needed for each of the key areas.

That's interesting. If they had another candidate they wanted to give it to I'm not sure if it make senses for them to deliberately mark you as unsuitable for the role unless they didn't want to hire you. Do you know if they filled the role? Did you get in contact to look for the feedback that you're entitled to?

As for the scoring, it can depend on the people involved. When doing interviews or candidate selections I tend to be an awful lot harder to impress than a lot of people I know. 60% is a decent score.

dellas1979

A few things serialcomplainer:

1. I asked the person who was leaving about certain areas/aspects of the job and got "shur youll be grand".... the girl who got the job is friends with that person. So please dont tell me I didnt try and do research - Ive done a few interviews in my time to know what to do.

2. I work in public sector and you would not believe what goes on there. Do you think I should leave a job to go for another "imaginary" job in this climate? Whatever. I dont know how you pay your bills but I have to work.

3. Ahahaha and this is what gets me on your comments because you do not know the place I work or the situation but you have to go through hell and high water to get interview feedback. They dont have score cards. This has been a problem for ages and it still hasnt changed. And I assure you if I asked for the feedback and managed to magically get it, before Id even sit down to read it EVERYONE there would know that id asked for it. Nosey f*ckers.

They are all lazy in there. They (higher paid positions/permanent staff in my office) take long tea breaks (45 mins), an hour for lunch, even longer. They start at 10am. They work till 4/4.30. And thats what the tax payer gets. Laughable. I wouldnt believe it myself only I work there. There is noone to answer to. The lower you go in salary the more work you are expected to do. Permanent staff who are there years do nothing. They are in their comfy positions, never train, never do anything, yet they still complain. I am in education to improve myself. Im there to pay the bills. Public sector is disgusting and those people described above are actually thick.

If someone in your place of work was on a €60,000 salary you'd expect a certain level of education and experience wouldnt you? Thats what happens in industry right? Not in public sector.

doolox

You could handle this by going to the top with facts.
Write down everything the poor performers do wrong, long teabreaks etc....
Submit it in writing to your boss.
If nothing comes of the complaint then submit it higher up the chain.
You won't be popular but after a while everyone will be so afraid of everyone else that long teabreaks will no longer be taken.
Keep note of all the work you do and all the outputs you achieve and submit that as a report to your boss on a regular basis.
Suggest the boss ask everyone else to do the same "in the interests of the organisation" of course.......
After a while the people at the top will have a good picture of who is doing the work and who isn't.
If dishonest crap is going on rat it out and report it, sticking to the facts so that the higher ups can act on it.You won't be thanked for keeping quiet about it. In recessions ministers and other political animals will be looking for savings, scapegoats and ways to drop people off the payroll. When the bad times come be ahead and inform on a colleague today............

Bozacke

During an interview for a Public Sector job the candidate is asked
'Are you allergic to anything?' He replies, 'Yes - caffeine.'
'Have you ever been in the military service?'
Yes,' he says. 'I was in Iraq for two years.'
The interviewer says, 'That will give you 5 extra points toward employment.'
Then he asks, 'Are you disabled in any way?' The guy says,
'Yes...an IED exploded near me and I lost both of my testicles.' The interviewer grimaces and then says, 'O.K. You've got enough points for me to hire you right now.
Our normal hours are from 8:00 A.M. to 4:00 P.M. You can start tomorrow at 10:00 - and plan on starting at 10:00 A.M. every day.'
The guy is puzzled and says, 'If the work hours are from 8:00 A.M. to 4:00 P.M., why don't you want me to here until 10:00 A.M.?'
This is a Public Sector job,' the interviewer says.. 'For the first two hours, we just stand around drinking coffee and scratching our balls. No point in you coming in for that.

jobucks

dellas1979 wrote: »

A few things serialcomplainer:

1. I asked the person who was leaving about certain areas/aspects of the job and got "shur youll be grand".... the girl who got the job is friends with that person. So please dont tell me I didnt try and do research - Ive done a few interviews in my time to know what to do.

2. I work in public sector and you would not believe what goes on there. Do you think I should leave a job to go for another "imaginary" job in this climate? Whatever. I dont know how you pay your bills but I have to work.

3. Ahahaha and this is what gets me on your comments because you do not know the place I work or the situation but you have to go through hell and high water to get interview feedback. They dont have score cards. This has been a problem for ages and it still hasnt changed. And I assure you if I asked for the feedback and managed to magically get it, before Id even sit down to read it EVERYONE there would know that id asked for it. Nosey f*ckers.

They are all lazy in there. They (higher paid positions/permanent staff in my office) take long tea breaks (45 mins), an hour for lunch, even longer. They start at 10am. They work till 4/4.30. And thats what the tax payer gets. Laughable. I wouldnt believe it myself only I work there. There is noone to answer to. The lower you go in salary the more work you are expected to do. Permanent staff who are there years do nothing. They are in their comfy positions, never train, never do anything, yet they still complain. I am in education to improve myself. Im there to pay the bills. Public sector is disgusting and those people described above are actually thick.

If someone in your place of work was on a €60,000 salary you'd expect a certain level of education and experience wouldnt you? Thats what happens in industry right? Not in public sector.

Ever consider that you might not have gotten the job because you really don't like working there and it shows in your attitude??? Just a thought.

InReality

doolox wrote: »

You could handle this by going to the top with facts.
Write down everything the poor performers do wrong, long teabreaks etc....
Submit it in writing to your boss.
If nothing comes of the complaint then submit it higher up the chain.
You won't be popular but after a while everyone will be so afraid of everyone else that long teabreaks will no longer be taken.
Keep note of all the work you do and all the outputs you achieve and submit that as a report to your boss on a regular basis.
Suggest the boss ask everyone else to do the same "in the interests of the organisation" of course.......
After a while the people at the top will have a good picture of who is doing the work and who isn't.
If dishonest crap is going on rat it out and report it, sticking to the facts so that the higher ups can act on it.You won't be thanked for keeping quiet about it. In recessions ministers and other political animals will be looking for savings, scapegoats and ways to drop people off the payroll. When the bad times come be ahead and inform on a colleague today............

wouldn't agree with this

InReality

dellas1979 wrote: »

A few things serialcomplainer:

1. I asked the person who was leaving about certain areas/aspects of the job and got "shur youll be grand".... the girl who got the job is friends with that person. So please dont tell me I didnt try and do research - Ive done a few interviews in my time to know what to do.

2. I work in public sector and you would not believe what goes on there. Do you think I should leave a job to go for another "imaginary" job in this climate? Whatever. I dont know how you pay your bills but I have to work.

3. Ahahaha and this is what gets me on your comments because you do not know the place I work or the situation but you have to go through hell and high water to get interview feedback. They dont have score cards. This has been a problem for ages and it still hasnt changed. And I assure you if I asked for the feedback and managed to magically get it, before Id even sit down to read it EVERYONE there would know that id asked for it. Nosey f*ckers.

They are all lazy in there. They (higher paid positions/permanent staff in my office) take long tea breaks (45 mins), an hour for lunch, even longer. They start at 10am. They work till 4/4.30. And thats what the tax payer gets. Laughable. I wouldnt believe it myself only I work there. There is noone to answer to. The lower you go in salary the more work you are expected to do. Permanent staff who are there years do nothing. They are in their comfy positions, never train, never do anything, yet they still complain. I am in education to improve myself. Im there to pay the bills. Public sector is disgusting and those people described above are actually thick.

If someone in your place of work was on a €60,000 salary you'd expect a certain level of education and experience wouldnt you? Thats what happens in industry right? Not in public sector.

what area of the public sector ?

Silversudz

I had a good laugh when I read OP comments on the way the Public Sector Operates!

I too worked part time for a department in the public sector while studying for my masters. It was the biggest joke ever. Management did not give a flyin fidoogle about anyone who did not fit into their backwards way of doing things. Honest to god I could rave on all day but will give some examples:

1. One of my co-workers was turned down time and time again for promotion after 7 yrs of service because she was disliked by management for showing "iniative" and airing ideas on how to increase efficiency.

2. People who were getting paid 30K a year were demoted to opening envelopes from 9 -5, because management thought they could do with a break from the main work of the dept??? (These were people who were highly competent but not in with the click)

3. A standoff developed between managment and staff because someone left some files out of a filing cabinet and didn't put them back. This manager went up to said files every half hour or so shouting 'the files are still out, the files are still out' After 2 days of this I could take no more and just went up and put them back myself to shut her up.

4. Their so called Performance Management Development System could not be implemented properly because management had neither the interest nor the people skills to do so.

Yeah long live the Public Sector and their highly intelligent management!!! They wouldn't last 2 seconds in the private sector - what a joke.

To OP you're in the Public Sector so get used to being treated like a pariah if you have a brain and don't act like a lemming x. Otherwise just crawl up the bums of management if you want to get ahead hee hee.

SerialComplaint

dellas1979 wrote: »

1. I asked the person who was leaving about certain areas/aspects of the job and got "shur youll be grand".... the girl who got the job is friends with that person. So please dont tell me I didnt try and do research - Ive done a few interviews in my time to know what to do.

Perhaps they are looking for someone who doesn't get brushed off that easily? Perhaps they are looking for someone who can focus on results (getting the answer) rather than activity (asking the question)?

dellas1979 wrote: »

2. I work in public sector and you would not believe what goes on there. Do you think I should leave a job to go for another "imaginary" job in this climate? Whatever. I dont know how you pay your bills but I have to work.

I work in the public sector too. Your public sector sounds very different to my public sector. The public sector is very big, so it may well be different in your area to mine. Your assumption that you know what the entire public sector is like from your own limited experience is flawed.

I understand that you, like me, have bills to pay, and that this is not the best time to go job hunting. But if the place is as bad as you describe, then surely this was fairly obvious two years ago, when the job market was hopping? It wouldn't be just that you are pi$$ed off since you didn't get the promotion, would it?

dellas1979 wrote: »

3. Ahahaha and this is what gets me on your comments because you do not know the place I work or the situation but you have to go through hell and high water to get interview feedback. They dont have score cards. This has been a problem for ages and it still hasnt changed. And I assure you if I asked for the feedback and managed to magically get it, before Id even sit down to read it EVERYONE there would know that id asked for it. Nosey f*ckers.

You have a legal entitlement to a copy of any data held about you, under both the Data Protection Acts and the FOI legislation. Submit your requests straight away under both those Acts, and if you don't get a satisfactory response in time, you can escalate to the Data Protection Commissioner and the Information Commissioner.

The absence of a scoring system would be very, very unusual. If this is the case, you need to get this sorted through your trade union, or your partnership committee, or even through your local TD.

I don't understand your concern that 'everyone would know'. Who cares what everyone knows?

dellas1979 wrote: »

They are all lazy in there. They (higher paid positions/permanent staff in my office) take long tea breaks (45 mins), an hour for lunch, even longer. They start at 10am. They work till 4/4.30. And thats what the tax payer gets. Laughable. I wouldnt believe it myself only I work there. There is noone to answer to. The lower you go in salary the more work you are expected to do. Permanent staff who are there years do nothing. They are in their comfy positions, never train, never do anything, yet they still complain. I am in education to improve myself. Im there to pay the bills. Public sector is disgusting and those people described above are actually thick.

Are these staff on flexi-time, clocking in and out? Again, if things are this bad, you need to be part of the solution. Get your union involved, get your partnership committee involved, get support from other colleagues.

I generally take these 'everyone is out of step except me' stories with a pinch of salt. In my practical experience in both the public and private sectors, life is not this black and white.

dellas1979 wrote: »

If someone in your place of work was on a €60,000 salary you'd expect a certain level of education and experience wouldnt you? Thats what happens in industry right? Not in public sector.

This kind of pigeon-holing of public and private sector doesn't watch. There are wasters in every organisation, public and private.

jobucks wrote: »

Ever consider that you might not have gotten the job because you really don't like working there and it shows in your attitude??? Just a thought.

An interesting thought....

Stheno

Bozacke wrote: »

I have to agree that many of the interviews in the public sector are already decided on before the interview. I recently had an interview for a Public Sector job and for the 5 key areas needed for the job, 4 of them I had a significant amount of experience in and the the 5th area I had limited experience, but all of the necessary knowledge. During the interview 90% of the questions were in the 5th area, my weakest. Although I felt that I did a great interview, considering how the really focused on my weakest area I knew I wasn't getting the job. When I got PFO letter and the interview score card, I couldn't believe the scoring they gave me. Areas 1-4 they scored me a 12/20 saying only 60% competent, where I'd consider myself an expert in those areas and one of the areas they didn't even ask any relevant questions and area 5 they scored me at 35% and a minimum of 40% was needed for each of the key areas. I find it hard to beleive they could have scored me so poorly in any of the areas and these results only tell me one thing and I don't see it as a reflection of myself.

You'd be surprised, I don't work in the public sector but our HR department ask us to use score cards for interviews so that feedback can be given to agencies/candidates on areas they fell down.

I've scored people who looked great on paper, as 0/100 in competency areas, due to lack of ability to substantiate the experience listed on their c.v in an interview, might sound harsh but when someone who claims to have done x for four years, then doesn't know what a key piece of code of practice for x area means, that's what happens.

leeroybrown wrote: »

As for the scoring, it can depend on the people involved. When doing interviews or candidate selections I tend to be an awful lot harder to impress than a lot of people I know. 60% is a decent score.

60% is a decent score, in the situation you are replying to though, failing in one area (i.e. getting less than 40%) does sound inflexible overall.

dellas1979

I would be one of the people who complains and tries to do things for the better of the organisation and the staff. I am not there to be popular and will not brown nose people. It is basically what one of the posters said, if you are not in the click or the group then you do not count. Gossip would be rife about you.

I have had arguments and stood up to my colleagues about bitching about people and calling other staff members names. And now my name is mud.

I would leave there in a second if it was possible to get a job. I am fortunate to have one (be it contract), but the tax payer pays these people wages and they do nothing.

The ironic thing about all this is that the girl who got the job about 2 years ago was part of a group who brought the girl leaving to mediation with HR as they were all fighting. She brown nosed her the last 6 months knowing she would go for the maternity leave acting job. "oohh your dress is lovely"..."ohhh arent you very clever"...."ohhhh you are the best...".

See am p*ssed off cause Ive been told that they think Im up my own arse basically because I am college educated. Have been told by the girl who got the job that going to college does no good. That it is a waste.

InReality

Just regarding the 35/40% thing - its inflexible because it has to be as fair and structured to all candidates as possible.