Ground Coffee: Refrigerate or not?

davej

Ok I have a brick of Carluccio's Caffe' Milano Espresso.
For storage instructions it says "Never Refrigerate Coffee"

I also have a brick of Lavazza (Crema E Gusto). It's storage instructions say: "Store in an airtight container and refrigerate, remove from fridge 5 minutes before use"

What gives? Surely Lavazza know what they are on about when making their recommendation ?

davej

Khannie

I don't think it matters. If it's pre-ground, you're f**ked anyway.

Gran Hermano

Khannie wrote: »

I don't think it matters. If it's pre-ground, you're f**ked anyway.

Correct !


Whilst freezing beans is ok I'd never refrigerate ground coffee.
All you're doing is getting it moist in the fridge and adding whatever
smells are in your fridge to it.

Kilner jar or similar airtight container is sufficient.

davej

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Correct !


Whilst freezing beans is ok I'd never refrigerate ground coffee.
All you're doing is getting it moist in the fridge and adding whatever
smells are in your fridge to it.

Kilner jar or similar airtight container is sufficient.

Presumably if you store it in an airtight container in the fridge, no smells from the fridge will contaminate it?

Also, since Lavazza probably have a coffee expert or 2 in their employ, why would they explicitly recommend keeping it in the fridge if it was a bad idea? According to their website, keeping it in the fridge will "preserve its flavour and aroma".

Is there something specific to Lavazza that leads them to make this recommendation while Carluccio's (who have a cafe/shop on Duke Street) say the exact opposite? Who is right ?

Just a note that I do buy freshly ground coffee from the local saturday market for my Bialetti but I am a coffee novice who is happy with good quality pre-ground for the time being

davej

Gran Hermano

davej wrote: »

Presumably if you store it in an airtight container in the fridge, no smells from the fridge will contaminate it?

Also, since Lavazza probably have a coffee expert or 2 in their employ, why would they explicitly recommend keeping it in the fridge if it was a bad idea? According to their website, keeping it in the fridge will "preserve its flavour and aroma".

Is there something specific to Lavazza that leads them to make this recommendation while Carluccio's (who have a cafe/shop on Duke Street) say the exact opposite? Who is right ?

Just a note that I do buy freshly ground coffee from the local saturday market for my Bialetti but I am a coffee novice who is happy with good quality pre-ground for the time being

I see no need or benefit to keeping coffee in the fridge.



davej

Well if the marketing men in Lavazza have convinced you that not only
is preground good but keeping it in the fridge even better, why ask here?

http://toomuchcoffee.com/wiki/index.php/Fridge%2C_freezer_or_shelf:_What_to_do_when_storing_beans_for_longer_periods_of_time

Plenty of similar articles about showing that keeping coffee in the fridge is bad, freezer is ok
(if just freezing once before using and not several freeze/thaw cycles).

davej

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Well if the marketing men in Lavazza have convinced you that not only
is preground good but keeping it in the fridge even better, why ask here?

Hah! I'm aware there is a certain amount of coffee elitism in this forum, but I can live with that

Of course I know that pre-ground isn't as good as freshly ground, but even the most discriminating coffee drinker might be forced to "lower" himself to drink it on occasion (broken machine, run out of beans etc). In this situation he might be interested in the best method of storage.

http://toomuchcoffee.com/wiki/index.php/Fridge%2C_freezer_or_shelf:_What_to_do_when_storing_beans_for_longer_periods_of_time

Plenty of similar articles about showing that keeping coffee in the fridge is bad, freezer is ok
(if just freezing once before using and not several freeze/thaw cycles).

It seems keeping coffee beans in the fridge is not a good idea.

However for pre-ground I think you might be wrong - it's looking like the fridge is the best place:

Sainsbury's recommend it (See bottom of page)

Bottom of this page has Lavazza's fridge recommendation and explicitly states that it should not be put in the freezer.

davej

Gran Hermano

Why you think storing in a fridge is better than storing outside the fridge
in a dry and dark place at room temperature away from strong smells
and odours is beyond me. With stale preground coffee you might not notice the difference.

As for Sainsburys and Lavazza justifying refrigeration, ' the devil can cite
scripture for his purpose'.

Any coffee beans I am not planning on using within a week is stored
in it's green bean form or rarely frozen once. Once roasted it's kept in
an airtight kilner jars.

If you're happy with the fridge as a coffee store keep with it, some people
are happy with instant.

Mr.David

Gran Hermano wrote: »

All you're doing is getting it moist in the fridge quote]

The fridge is the driest place in your house......

Gran Hermano

Mr.David wrote: »

The fridge is the driest place in your house......

And the temperature change between hot room and cold fridge will never cause condensation inside the container.

At this stage I don't care if people store it in their bathrooms or drink instant

:rolleyes:

davej

Gran Hermano wrote: »

And the temperature change between hot room and cold fridge will never cause condensation inside the container.

The container doesn't really have to leave the fridge much, you just take enough coffee out for your needs. The 'strong odours' argument is a red herring and in fact even herring can't penetrate the container if it is airtight.

At this stage I don't care if people store it in their bathrooms or drink instant

:rolleyes:

I didn't think you'd give up that easily!

And my bet is that if you ever have to resort to using ground coffee, you'll have a nagging feeling in the back of your mind as it sits up on your shelf :P

davej

Gran Hermano

Asking "how do I store ground coffee" is like asking "how do I polish a turd", doesn't matter how you do it or what you do as at the end of the day it's still a turd.

Running Bing

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Asking "how do I store ground coffee" is like asking "how do I polish a turd", doesn't matter how you do it or what you do as at the end of the day it's still a turd.

As Austin Powers might say...."Nutty"

davej

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Asking "how do I store ground coffee" is like asking "how do I polish a turd", doesn't matter how you do it or what you do as at the end of the day it's still a turd.

Wow. Bit of change from when you wrote this:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055091825

Way back in the mists of time (May 2007) you could apparently "Pick up a pack of Illy or Lavazz in any supermarket" and it would "give you great results". Something must have changed since then. It seems Illy and Lavazza have replaced their coffee with packaged poo :eek:

Either that or you have become a bit of a snob :P

Seriously though, I actually do appreciate you taking the time to read and answer my posts. As I stated, I'm really only a coffee beginner. In fact I never drank any coffee whatsoever up until about a year ago when I started having the odd espresso after a restaurant meal. I got a moka express as a present for Christmas and slowly my interest in coffee has started to increase as I play around with it and read this forum.

For what it's worth Illy is the nicest I've tried (out of about 5 or 6 different brands).

davej

RE*AC*TOR

He also said it was for someone looking for something "a tad nicer than freeze dried instant".

So perhaps within those criteria, it will give you great results.

If you want more than "a tad" - not great.

Oh, and my opinion would be air tight, room temp, dark place for the ground coffee. Also make the container as small as possible to reduce the amount of air in with the coffee. Ziplock bag could be good (are they airtight?).

Gran Hermano

davej wrote: »

Wow. Bit of change from when you wrote this:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055091825

Way back in the mists of time (May 2007) you could apparently "Pick up a pack of Illy or Lavazz in any supermarket" and it would "give you great results". Something must have changed since then. It seems Illy and Lavazza have replaced their coffee with packaged poo :eek:

Either that or you have become a bit of a snob :P

Seriously though, I actually do appreciate you taking the time to read and answer my posts. As I stated, I'm really only a coffee beginner. In fact I never drank any coffee whatsoever up until about a year ago when I started having the odd espresso after a restaurant meal. I got a moka express as a present for Christmas and slowly my interest in coffee has started to increase as I play around with it and read this forum.

For what it's worth Illy is the nicest I've tried (out of about 5 or 6 different brands).

davej

Are we debating what coffee I drank in my college days or how best to store ground coffee?

My post from 2 years back which you dug out was aimed at people
looking for an improvement over drinking instant. It was a cheap as chips
'under €30 solution' for people making coffee with limited resources and not a guide on how to make the best coffee.

Nowhere in that post did I state how to store coffee or that ground coffee was as good or better than grinding on demand.

Even with limited experience, coffee equipment and coffee choice there is
still no reason to keep the actual coffee in the fridge.

Fact remains storing ground coffee in a fridge is both pointless and
will do nothing positive for the coffee.

And if/when you get your hands on a grinder you'll see the light in relation to ground coffee compared to beans.

faigs

GH, you are being a bit elitist, I'm sure you are very knowledgeable about the best ways to make coffee but most people don't have €500 worth of coffee equipment for domestic use. And I think it's unfair to compare freeze dried instant to ground coffee - the difference in taste is huge IMO especially when using Illy/Lavazza and a Moka pot.

I would like to ask your advice on something though - I have small Bodum grinder and was wondering what size to grind the beans for use in moka pot - I heard you're not supposed to grind to a powdery level but more coarse?

Gran Hermano

I stand by what I said earlier there is no benefit to storing ground coffee
in the fridge, regardless of whether you're planning on using that coffee in
a €10 French-press or with a €1k+ espresso machine.

I am confused as to how the storing of coffee is connected to the price of
the equipment you plan to use it on. Nothing elitist intended - I make half
the coffee I drink with either a cheap French-press or aeropress.

For the moka pot I use a grind just slightly coarser than espresso grind,
this is a lot finer than what is used in a French press. You do not want
it baby-powder fine either. Have a look at this picture which indicates
the difference between grinding for a French-press and a moka.
http://bohemiancoffeeroasters.com/page2/page5/files/page5_1.png

My advice would be to buy a small amount of preground coffee from
one of the better roasters (links at top of forum in sticky) and ask them
to grind it for espresso/moka. That way you can compare your grind to
theirs.

You will need to aim for a grind where the average particle size from
your grinder matches. With blade grinders it's difficult to get an even
grind but shaking the grinder whilst grinding helps.

davej

Ok so it's 5 bricks of ground coffee later (2XLavazza, Carluccio's, Illy, Palombini) and I have been alternating between refrigeration and storing in a cupboard.

The coffee was kept in a ceramic airtight French Kilner jar. I have to be honest and say it made little difference one way or the other. For direct comparison I kept one Lavazza in the fridge and one in the cupboard but because I'm finishing a brick in 2 weeks or less, I don't really think it's enough time for either storage method to show it's flaws or advantages. Maybe if they were sitting around for a month it would be different..

Storing it in the fridge certainly did not "ruin" the coffee, there was no chance of smells etc contaminating it but I do think the risk of condensation is there if you are not careful. So overall I think it is not really worth keeping it in the fridge if it is going to be consumed in a relatively short amount of time.
This is mainly because you have to wait a few minutes after taking the coffee out of the fridge (for it to adjust back to room temp) before using it.

I'm aware that some of you guys reading this are thinking "So what, it's all pre-ground anyway" and that we have barista champions and huge coffee nerds hanging around here but this forum should also cater for all levels, no ?

In any case I have been reading up on a lot of the forums recently (home-barista, toomuchcoffee and coffeegeek) and have found a lot of useful information. I will eventually take the plunge and get myself a good grinder, (Macap M4 I'm looking at you!). The main blocker right now is space in the kitchen, not money.

davej

Gran Hermano

Best bang for buck is the Iberital MC2 from happydonkey at around 150 delivered, you'll spend double that for the next step up.
Footprint is not too big.

I'm off to the Motor forum, think I read keeping my spare tyre in the fridge helps it last longer

waraf

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Best bang for buck is the Iberital MC2 from happydonkey at around 150 delivered, you'll spend double that for the next step up.
Footprint is not too big.

I'm off to the Motor forum, think I read keeping my spare tyre in the fridge helps it last longer

115 GBP delivered from Happy Donkey to be precise (approx 130 euro)
Mine is being delivered tomorrow morning between 9 and 12 - woo hoo!!

Gran Hermano

waraf wrote: »

115 GBP delivered from Happy Donkey to be precise (approx 130 euro)
Mine is being delivered tomorrow morning between 9 and 12 - woo hoo!!

It's a bargain at that price, I bought mine a few years back and paid
a lot more than that - I actually dug out the old emails with Scott earlier
as I was phoning him looking for some odds and ends for the new Silvia.
Hmmmm new naked portafilter for me.

kmick

Ive been doing various experiments over the last 10 months in terms of getting better results with ground for my gagga espresso machine.

1) I store the pack in an airtight container in the freezer. This works. I have tried airtight in cupboard and the results are much better from the freezer. I fire it out after a couple ofm onths or when the tase deteriorates noticeably.

2) You cant get a good result with frozen coffee in your machine obviously so the night before I use the coffee I take it from the freezer and put say 3 tablespoons worth in a very small airtight container which I keep in the cupboard. This lasts me for a couple of days fine after that I throw it out.

Thats it. I use the lavazza red pack as opposed to the lavazza espresso and this is lovely smooth blend.

I tried the whole buying beans and grinding them but to be honest life is too short. I could never get the consistency right, it was really messy, noisy and the machine used to give me shocks on a regular basis. Now every so often I buy a bag of beans from Starbucks and get it ground to espresso size. It is quicker, cleaner and they do it for free once you buy the coffeee there.

overmantle

I would never have refridgerated it myself.

JacobOrr

Your coffee shouldn't be around, after its ground, long enough to be put into the fridge.

evercloserunion

Temperature affects rate of reaction which AFAIK is what the determining factor in how quickly a coffee goes stale and flavourless? For the same reason that storing beans is better than storing ground (less surface area so slower reactions) so is storing cold better than storing warm (less temperature so slower reactions).

Surely?

Mr Magnolia

Coffee starts to go stale as the oils produced in the roasting process dry out, grinding the coffee increases the surface area which means it will dry out even quicker.

After a few minutes the ground coffee will start to deteriorate exponentially, this means that the pre-ground coffee that you've purchased will have dried out long before you get it home. All freezing is going to do to that is introduce moisture.

Freeze it if you want, you're flogging a dead horse though. Grinders are cheap and well worth investing in.