Warranty Issue

Juan Pablo

Looking for opinions/ advice in relation to a warranty issue we currently have on a recently purchased car. Situation is as follows.

Bought herself a Mini Cooper about 6 weeks ago, 05 with 75k, carried out all of the various checks and everything was fine. Thursday before last I get a call off the good lady saying that the temp gauge is in the red. She brings the car to the nearest garage (a local KwikFit) who advise her not to drive it and I get onto the dealer who sold us the car. They give me the warranty companys number, who inform me the car needs to be brought to a garage to be diagnosed, and said garage must contact them prior to any work. Fine, car gets towed to a garage capable of repairing it, mechanic has a look and reckons the water pump has gone, needs a few days to order in a replacement part. Meh, its a car at the end of the day, these things happen, at least it happened under warranty. Quite a common fault on the Cooper I believe and easily repairable.

Once part arrives, garage phones the company to inform them the water pump is gone. They instuct him to strip the engine. He does this, replaces the pump, puts the engine back together, runs the car, everything hunky dorey. Rings back the warranty company, who claim that since he put the car back together, the warranty is null and void. He speaks to a supervisor, gets abused and fobbed off. From speaking to the garageman he said he had never in his life heard such an unprofessional and downright rude behaviour. He hasn't dealt with this warranty company before (a British crowd) but has done a lot of work in the past with other warranty companies and has never encounted this sort of issue before.

Got back onto the warranty company myself, all they say is that the garage didn't have an authorisation code to put the car back together, no pay. The dealer has tried to contact the rep for the warranty company, as have I, but to no avail. They are taking the same line, i.e. no authorisation.

Cost of the work is around €500, until the garage gets paid he wont release the car. We aquired another car off a family member as a loaner so she's not stuck, but would obv like her car back. Question is, who is liable?

Eric Cartman

sounds like a verry shoddy warranty company to me, who did they expect to put the car back together, warranty company should foot the bill on this one, or at worst the garage who sold you the car , let them deal with the company they paid

leitrim lad

sounds like warranty company is trying to pull a fast one ,i think either you or the dealer you bought it from should get legal advise or send the warranty company a solicitors letter,and dont hand over any money what so ever,cos even citizens advise will tell you you are entitled to your warranty. and they have to cover storage and lobor aswell:)

Juan Pablo

leitrim lad wrote: »

sounds like warranty company is trying to pull a fast one ,i think either you or the dealer you bought it from should get legal advise or send the warranty company a solicitors letter,and dont hand over any money what so ever,cos even citizens advise will tell you you are entitled to your warranty. and they have to cover storage and lobor aswell:)

Possibly. If I can get through to the Irish rep for the company this may be easily resolved without the need for solicitors, would rather avoid the hassle of going down that route.

Cyrus

is it warranty direct?

leitrim lad

ya i would be a last resort though, dont hand over any mon what ever you do ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, hope it sorts itself out for ya

Darragh29

OP, did you buy the warranty from the outlet you bought the car off, or did you source this warranty product yourself from the UK after buying the car from the outlet you bought it from. Did you buy it in Ireland or in the UK???

EDIT: If you bought the car from a business in Ireland, you should have brought the car back to that outlet with any issues.

-Chris-

leitrim lad wrote: »

sounds like warranty company is trying to pull a fast one ,i think either you or the dealer you bought it from should get legal advise or send the warranty company a solicitors letter,and dont hand over any money what so ever,cos even citizens advise will tell you you are entitled to your warranty. and they have to cover storage and lobor aswell:)

+1
Pay nothing. You'll never see it again.

Johnboy Mac

This does not help the situation really.

An authorisation code should have been requested by the garage repairing the car - that's standard procedure. Also the warranty company has the right to give authorisation for only the failed part to be removed for inspection. After inspection the company can give authoristion to replace failed part.

If the warranty company did'nt supply an authorisation code or refused the garage should not have proceeded with the repair and contacted you.

This is normal pratice.

Who's exactly at fault is a bit of a toss up. You should ask your garage what if any reference they have from the warranty company about authorisation and costs. Like a contact name etc.

Darragh29

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

This does not help the situation really.

An authorisation code should have been requested by the garage repairing the car - that's standard procedure. Also the warranty company has the right to give authorisation for only the failed part to be removed for inspection. After inspection the company can give authoristion to replace failed part.

If the warranty company did'nt supply an authorisation code or refused the garage should not have proceeded with the repair and contacted you.

This is normal pratice.

Who's exactly at fault is a bit of a toss up. You should ask your garage what if any reference they have from the warranty company about authorisation and costs. Like a contact name etc.

The whole thing became complicated I think when he didn't bring the car back to the outlet that he bought it from when the problem first arose, assuming that is, that he bought the car from a business in Ireland.

Johnboy Mac

Darragh29 wrote: »

The whole thing became complicated I think when he didn't bring the car back to the outlet that he bought it from when the problem first arose, assuming that is, that he bought the car from a business in Ireland.

Totally disagree. Not much point in having a warranty if you can only get it repaired at the selling dealer (who may only sell and not repair). So you buy in Dublin and it brakes down in Kerry, why would anybody want to incur the costs of recovery when the car can be repaired locally?

Edit: Even if you were correct, an authorisation number or code would still have to be received from the warranty company.

rocknchef

Could you and the garage not go back to stage one and ring them all over again and pretend its happened with the second part fitted that you payed for yourself? and then get all numbers you need to fix the car thats already fixed. have i confused you yet

-Chris-

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Totally disagree. Not much point in having a warranty if you can only get it repaired at the selling dealer (who may only sell and not repair). So you buy in Dublin and it brakes down in Kerry, why would anybody want to incur the costs of recovery when the car can be repaired locally?

But by bringing it back to the selling dealer (and warranty supplier) you're handing over the responsibility of "being right" to them, so you're unlikely to get caught out like this.
By bringing it to a repairer who's not in the loop, you risk situations like this where the repairer did the job in good faith, but the warranty company doesn't pay out because their procedures weren't adhered to.
The arguement is between the repairer and the warranty company, nothing to do with the customer.

The repairer is right not to release the car without payment.
The warranty company is right to have issues if repairs are done without their authorisation.
The customer is right to expect to have the repairs done under warranty with a minimum of fuss.


None of this gets the customer their car back however....

Darragh29

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Totally disagree. Not much point in having a warranty if you can only get it repaired at the selling dealer (who may only sell and not repair). So you buy in Dublin and it brakes down in Kerry, why would anybody want to incur the costs of recovery when the car can be repaired locally?

Edit: Even if you were correct, an authorisation number or code would still have to be received from the warranty company.

Grand theory when you are dealing with a franchised brand but it doesn't work like this if you are dealing with an independent sales outlet. I'd argue that regardless of whether or not a seller can repair or not, if they provide a warranty with a car and there is subsequently an issue, it is their issue to resolve.

To be honest, we haven't been told whether the warranty was bought independently by the OP after the purchase of the car, or whether the car was bought in Ireland or the UK and these facts have a bearing on what the OP is entitled to here.

leitrim lad

they like to add on that extra little bit in the sale and tell you everythings rosie with your warranty but when something happens then you really find out how rosie it is ,i have a case at the min over a digger i bought new from a dealer and they refused to touch it second day i had it ,told me i was mad ,altenator overcharging and blew up batteries , left me half blind ,but i will come the better of it ,and so will you with your cooper just dont pay the garage

Johnboy Mac

AudiChris wrote: »

But by bringing it back to the selling dealer (and warranty supplier) you're handing over the responsibility of "being right" to them, so you're unlikely to get caught out like this.
By bringing it to a repairer who's not in the loop, you risk situations like this where the repairer did the job in good faith, but the warranty company doesn't pay out because their procedures weren't adhered to.
The arguement is between the repairer and the warranty company, nothing to do with the customer.

The repairer is right not to release the car without payment.
The warranty company is right to have issues if repairs are done without their authorisation.
The customer is right to expect to have the repairs done under warranty with a minimum of fuss.


None of this gets the customer their car back however....

First off as I've already pointed it's not always pratical to return to the selling dealer - so what does the customer do? Answer, get it repaired locally. Would you be willing to pay a recovery charge if the warranty company is willing to have the car repaired locally? I'm darn sure the warranty company would not be willing to pay a recovery charge if it was not required to do so.

But I think you have missed the point as does not matter who repairs the car, the repaired needs a reference for authorisation to carry out the repairs. And this did not happen.Full stop.

Johnboy Mac

Darragh29 wrote: »

Grand theory when you are dealing with a franchised brand but it doesn't work like this if you are dealing with an independent sales outlet. I'd argue that regardless of whether or not a seller can repair or not, if they provide a warranty with a car and there is subsequently an issue, it is their issue to resolve.

To be honest, we haven't been told whether the warranty was bought independently by the OP after the purchase of the car, or whether the car was bought in Ireland or the UK and these facts have a bearing on what the OP is entitled to here.

There is no theory required, it's simple the car is either covered or not under the terms of the warranty. But like all warranties there is an onus on the customer or repairer to conform to certain guidlines and the repirer in this case did not do the basic i.e. did'nt get authorisation in correct manner - as we are not fully aware regarding the coversations that took place - the warranty company maybe wrong by not offereing an authorisation code/number. But the fact is NO AUTHORISATION has been received by the repairer no matter what way you cut it.

Juan Pablo

Darragh29 wrote: »

Grand theory when you are dealing with a franchised brand but it doesn't work like this if you are dealing with an independent sales outlet. I'd argue that regardless of whether or not a seller can repair or not, if they provide a warranty with a car and there is subsequently an issue, it is their issue to resolve.

To be honest, we haven't been told whether the warranty was bought independently by the OP after the purchase of the car, or whether the car was bought in Ireland or the UK and these facts have a bearing on what the OP is entitled to here.

Warranty wasn't purchased by myself, it was the standard three month warranty the dealer offered with the car. The car was bought in Ireland, and the company was a small indy who have no repair facilites. Not SIMI registered (not that it would matter anyway Ii guess). Cheers for the responses.

Johnboy Mac

Juan Pablo wrote: »

Possibly. If I can get through to the Irish rep for the company this may be easily resolved without the need for solicitors, would rather avoid the hassle of going down that route.

Your best bet in dealing with this situation is to get the garage to contact the warranty company again, but it might be wise that another member of staff does it. And go from there.
If there was an original verable agreement to cover repair costs your half way there as to paymemt being made to the repairing garage. Make sure all old parts are kept and a clear detailed invoice is at hand this can be faxed on if required.

-Chris-

Juan Pablo wrote: »

Warranty wasn't purchased by myself, it was the standard three month warranty the dealer offered with the car. The car was bought in Ireland, and the company was a small indy who have no repair facilites. Not SIMI registered (not that it would matter anyway Ii guess). Cheers for the responses.

In that case I'd contact the selling dealer and ask them to contact the warranty company on your behalf and try and smooth things out so the repairer gets paid.
The seller will have a better relationship with the warranty company than you do, I'd expect.


Edit: Johnboy Mac beat me to it!

Darragh29

Juan Pablo wrote: »

Warranty wasn't purchased by myself, it was the standard three month warranty the dealer offered with the car. The car was bought in Ireland, and the company was a small indy who have no repair facilites. Not SIMI registered (not that it would matter anyway Ii guess). Cheers for the responses.

So the answer here is very simple. You should have brought the vehicle back to where you bought it and left it up to them to resolve the issue. Whether the seller had servicing/maintenance facilities is not relevant here.

I don't know from your posts whether you took it upon yourself to resolve this issue or whether you tried to go back to the seller with the vehicle and they fobbed you off to the warranty company. Either way, you should have had the car brought back to where you bought it and had the issue resolved there.

Darragh29

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

There is no theory required, it's simple the car is either covered or not under the terms of the warranty. But like all warranties there is an onus on the customer or repairer to conform to certain guidlines and the repirer in this case did not do the basic i.e. did'nt get authorisation in correct manner - as we are not fully aware regarding the coversations that took place - the warranty company maybe wrong by not offereing an authorisation code/number. But the fact is NO AUTHORISATION has been received by the repairer no matter what way you cut it.

The way warranty works from a retailers perspective is if you have a problem with a car, you bring it back to where you bought it and have the issue resolved there.

leitrim lad

some places will just sort it out for you cos they dont want hassle but there are crooks who disown you if you look for warranty

Johnboy Mac

Darragh29 wrote: »

The way warranty works from a retailers perspective is if you have a problem with a car, you bring it back to where you bought it and have the issue resolved there.

Who's paying for the recovery costs?

Darragh29

leitrim lad wrote: »

some places will just sort it out for you cos they dont want hassle but there are crooks who disown you if you look for warranty

Yeah but you have to assume that you are dealing with credible people who will attend to the undertakings they gave with the car. If you get jip, then you can deal with that when it happens. I can't understand why the OP got involved in the warranty process to begin with, this is best left to the sales outlet, they should be used to the procedure used and also be looking after their own customer.

A warranty job is just another good opportunity to show your customer that you are on top of your game, by moving immediately to reduce hassle and inconvenince to your customer and getting the issue resolved in the shortest timeframe with the minimum of hassle. Not the case here.

All I'm wondering now is did the OP insist/take it upon himself to deal with the problem and put it through the warranty procedure or did the sales outlet fobb him off to the warranty company???

Darragh29

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Who's paying for the recovery costs?

The sales outlet. The OP should read the terms & conditions of his warranty agreement. Any decent outlet that was looking for repeat business would have this recovered and resolved ASAP with minimum hassle. If the warranty agreement (between the OP and the seller), provides for recovery to be provided in the event of a problem with the car within warranty, then he should expect the sales outlet to take care of recovery. I would expect a business to provide this on a goodwill basis if it was required and get the issue sorted out. This is what generates repeat business and positive referrals for your business, when a problem pops up, getting it resolved without hassle, cost and inconvenience.

-Chris-

leitrim lad wrote: »

some places will just sort it out for you cos they dont want hassle but there are crooks who disown you if you look for warranty

Like who? Who have you specifically experienced this kind of "crooked" treatment from?

leitrim lad

a machinery dealer on the naas road, i bought a new machine from them second day i had it the batteries blew up half blinded me ,they refused to even look at it ongoing court case with them at the min and it is going well, they told me i was mad that the machine would never give trouble like that, what happened was the altenator was overcharging the batteries, i was standing in the wrong place at the wrong time along side the machine when they blew up, the salesman who was ment to be a good friend of mine at they time paid me a visit and told me that i never bought warranty off him for any of my machinery new or used, now when you buy something new out of the box warranty is automatically on it from the manufacturer, they are in talks with my solicitor about settling it out of court.

-Chris-

And this relates to aftermarket warranty on a second hand vehicle sold from a car dealer how?

I may have a toaster that blew up prematurely that I can't get warranty on, but it doesn't automatically follow that Apple won't honour the warranty on my laptop.

Johnboy Mac

Darragh29 wrote: »

The sales outlet. The OP should read the terms & conditions of his warranty agreement. Any decent outlet that was looking for repeat business would have this recovered and resolved ASAP with minimum hassle. If the warranty agreement (between the OP and the seller), provides for recovery to be provided in the event of a problem with the car within warranty, then he should expect the sales outlet to take care of recovery. I would expect a business to provide this on a goodwill basis if it was required and get the issue sorted out. This is what generates repeat business and positive referrals for your business, when a problem pops up, getting it resolved without hassle, cost and inconvenience.

Your are making presumptions now about the retailer.

You are making presumptions that the warranty covers recovery or recovery to a suitable place that suits the owner.

You are expecting goodwill.

This does not in anyway change the facts no matter how much you presume of expect!

leitrim lad

well the case has similarities it is about warranty and since my incident i have found out a few home truths about warranty and consumer rights ,i paid over 150k for a new machine that blew up on its second day at work and left me with only 30% vision in my left eye , and the dealer refused to fix the machine,they have offered me a brand new machine and a cash settlement out of court and i keep the other machine aswell it is fixed now also,so you can resolve warranty issues but they are awkward

Juan Pablo

The first call I made was to the dealer. Was fobbed off to the warranty company. For the recovery, she has girl insurance so roadside recovery is part of her policy, she used this. She instructed the recovery truck to bring the car to a garage who does warranty work also. I've left voicemails with various people today but no-one has gotten back to me yet so no update.

leitrim lad

i know your case is about a used car and my one was about a new digger but i kept getting fobbed off until i sent a solicitors letter then they listned ,i didnt want to but i had no other choice on the matter ,i think the dealer is taking the easy way out on you, and that means hounding them

Darragh29

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Your are making presumptions now about the retailer.

You are making presumptions that the warranty covers recovery or recovery to a suitable place that suits the owner.

You are expecting goodwill.

This does not in anyway change the facts no matter how much you presume of expect!

I'm making an assumption about what I think normal customer service should be. If the sales outlet want his repeat business and expects to get recommended by the OP to other people who are looking for a car, they would use this opportunity to demonstrate their ability to look after their customer.

Again, we don't know why the OP got involved in personally handling the warranty transaction. I think this was for the outlet that sold him the car to take care of, regardless of whether or not they had an aftersales facility.

The OP bought his warranty from the same people who sold him the car and this is who he should be dealing with on a warranty matter.

Darragh29

Juan Pablo wrote: »

The first call I made was to the dealer. Was fobbed off to the warranty company. For the recovery, she has girl insurance so roadside recovery is part of her policy, she used this. She instructed the recovery truck to bring the car to a garage who does warranty work also. I've left voicemails with various people today but no-one has gotten back to me yet so no update.

Right, so now we are getting closer to resolving this. OP, the outlet you bought the car from sold you the car and sold you the warranty with the car. It is now their problem to resolve this for you. They have outsourced their aftersales and warranty requirements, which is no problem at all, but they haven't outsourced their obligations to you. As far as I know, check your paperwork, you have a written contract with the seller, not with the 3rd party provider of warranty.

Johnboy Mac

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm making an assumption about what I think normal customer service should be. If the sales outlet want his repeat business and expects to get recommended by the OP to other people who are looking for a car, they would use this opportunity to demonstrate their ability to look after their customer.

Again, we don't know why the OP got involved in personally handling the warranty transaction. I think this was for the outlet that sold him the car to take care of, regardless of whether or not they had an aftersales facility.

The OP bought his warranty from the same people who sold him the car and this is who he should be dealing with on a warranty matter.

It's again what ''you think''. If you originally stuck to the FACTS of the matter you would not have to go down the road of giving out your presumptions or expectations. No disrespect but that is neither here nor there.

Darragh29

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

It's again what ''you think''. If you originally stuck to the FACTS of the matter you would not have to go down the road of giving out your presumptions or expectations. No disrespect but that is neither here nor there.

Here's me advice to you Johnny me auld flower. Keep your comments on here directed at the OP and his issue, and not on what I'm posting here. If you don't agree with it, grand, but don't start getting in my face about it.

Johnboy Mac

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's me advice to you Johnny me auld flower. Keep your comments on here directed at the OP and his issue, and not on what I'm posting here. If you don't agree with it, grand, but don't start getting in my face about it.

Well you presumptions & expectations have been of no benefit to OP. Not once have you made a senseible suggestion in assisting the OP other than trying to to put your unhelpful opinions across.

I've signed off.

peasant

Darragh and Johnboy ...get a room

leitrim lad

3rd party or not you bought it from the dealer it is their legal obligation to honor the cost of warranty not yours