Gaelforce

trasver

Hi guys

Hope this post is OK here? I'm planning on competing in gael force West this coming August. It comprises running/cycling/kayaking/hillwalking.

http://www.gaelforcewest.ie/

I currently don't own a bike and am looking to get advise from ye experts on what I should get.

Gaelforce comprises mostly road cycling with a bit of off road thrown in to make it complicated!

I'm thinking of a hybrid as (I think!) it would be most appropriate as I'm also hoping to use it for commuting into work (only a few miles) and general fitness training.

Also I'm 6' 5" which has always caused me problems using bikes before!

What kind of money am I looking at to get something decent?

Thanks for all comments and all advice is welcome!

Simon

Lumen

Read this.

trasver

Cheers Lumen

Searching doesn't work for me sometimes :rolleyes:

BH2008

trasver wrote: »

Hi guys

Hope this post is OK here? I'm planning on competing in gael force West this coming August. It comprises running/cycling/kayaking/hillwalking.

http://www.gaelforcewest.ie/

I currently don't own a bike and am looking to get advise from ye experts on what I should get.

Gaelforce comprises mostly road cycling with a bit of off road thrown in to make it complicated!

I'm thinking of a hybrid as (I think!) it would be most appropriate as I'm also hoping to use it for commuting into work (only a few miles) and general fitness training.

Also I'm 6' 5" which has always caused me problems using bikes before!

What kind of money am I looking at to get something decent?

Thanks for all comments and all advice is welcome!

Simon

Hi Simon,

I've done Gaelforce twice now, a super event, but very tough! Only a very small part, maybe 2.5km (out of approx 45km) of the cycle course is on what can be described as off road, its actually more of a track with hardcore/gravel/mud on it with some horrendus potholes. So far I have always done the event on an aluminium race bike, I just put on a older pair of wheels that I didn't mind getting banged. The biggest prob with that section is the risk of punctures, so I did that section out of the saddle, keeping the weight balanced evenly on both wheels as much as I could. In theory a cross bike sounds like the best option, but in my experience a road bike is the better choice hands down, faster over the majority of the route, the route is reasonably hilly so a road bike will be lighter too....and will be a better investment in the long run too for future use. If you get a chance get involved in some of the IMRA races, they will give you a taste of cross country/mountain running, and get out on the hills on your bike......with regard to climbing Croagh Patrick....just go to the Gym and do 10,000 leg presses...thats what it feels like after everything else!!!

Good luck with it anyway!!

FrankGrimes

I'm thinking of doing this event (leg injury permitting) but would be interested to see the split of the route in more detail. This route on MapMyRide seems to have the whole course and doesn't have it broken down by section (cycling/running etc.). Does anyone have a route broken out by section?

A mate did it last year and he said that yeh there is a 2km section that is bumpy as described above, but I think you should really ask yourself what your objectives are and what you will use the bike for outside of this event before purchasing a cyclocross bike.

If you're dead serious about achieving a particular time and need to be flat out at all points, get a cyclocross. If you can tolerate a few minutes extra on your time, I'd suggest getting a road bike and putting it on your shoulder and running through the rough bits. You'll lose what, 10 minutes, but if you an accept that on your timesheet you'll have a road bike you would hopefully find more useful if your subsequent spins will mainly be on flat roads.

I'm fortunate in that my carbon bike is very light but to be honest, most road bikes are reasonably light these days and if you can run up and down Croagh Patrick you can chuck a bike on the shoulders for 2km.

BH2008

FrankGrimes wrote: »

If you're dead serious about achieving a particular time and need to be flat out at all points, get a cyclocross. quote]


Gotta disagree with you here! I think there is definitely a greater time advantage to be gained on 43km on road tires than there is to be saved on 2km where the cyclocross tire will come into its own, you will still be able to ride most of the track on road tires, as I said earlier I road it all...just a little care required!! I'll try and post the 2km on google maps for you.

donal_mcg

I did GF6 last year on a road bike, only needed to get off for maybe 1Km or so as it just git a bit too rocky. The off road bit is a mix of sandy gravel/stones/grass. The guys I did it with had both used Road bikes the last 2 years with no problems, although last years 2nd placed man had a puncture there on a road bike while leading which caused him the win. Overall from looking at the bike station its a fairly even mix between road, mtb and hybrids.

BH2008

FrankGrimes wrote: »

I'm thinking of doing this event (leg injury permitting) but would be interested to see the split of the route in more detail. This route on MapMyRide seems to have the whole course and doesn't have it broken down by section (cycling/running etc.). Does anyone have a route broken out by section?
quote]


entire route starts off with a 12km cross country run as far as the water, kayak across the harbour, run approx 5km as far as delphi adventure centre, bike transition, 33km cycle up to foot of cp, once down from pilgrimage back on bike down same road you come up as far as left turn just after marker 28 on mapmyride, once you turn off you are off road until roughly marker 34 and a halfish (hard to tell on map), then a lovely cycle back to westport house along the sea front, park up bike and run to finish, fig roll and cup of tea:D

Enduro

There is no question that a road bike is the fastest bike for the GF. I also cycled up the entire off-road section on a road bike with slick road tyres. The only question mark for me would be whether a TT/Tri bike would be faster than a standard road bike.

although last years 2nd placed man had a puncture there on a road bike while leading which caused him the win.

He was leading on the ground (by about 1 minute or so), but was probably one or two minutes behind on adjustments for the kayaking timeout. Having said that, he was fastest on the bike, and probably would have made that up on the cycle to Westport without the puncture.

BH2008

Enduro wrote: »

There is no question that a road bike is the fastest bike for the GF. I also cycled up the entire off-road section on a road bike with slick road tyres. The only question mark for me would be whether a TT/Tri bike would be faster than a standard road bike.

quote]

Considering the amount of climbing on the course I would have thought a TT bike wouldn't be suitable, its nice to be able to climb on the hoods! I just had clip ons on mine. My other fear would be a TT bike on the offroad section....defo not built for that! I actually have a bit of a dilemma this year, upgraded to an R3 recently and not sure if I'd have the heart to bring it across that section!!

sean_d

If an R3 can take 80+kgs of Cancellara across 60km of P-R cobbles and many other Belgian classics, i'd imagine it'd be fine on a few km's of lovely irish gravel track...road bikes are actually a lot sturdier than most people give them credit for.

Enduro

...road bikes are actually a lot sturdier than most people give them credit for

That's been my experience too. Although I think the type of wheels (and tyres) might be the biggest factor, having seen the videos of collapsing wheels from dog strikes in the TdF a year or two back. My setup seems to take anwful lot of abuse without a problem though.

Considering the amount of climbing on the course I would have thought a TT bike wouldn't be suitable, its nice to be able to climb on the hoods! I just had clip ons on mine. My other fear would be a TT bike on the offroad section....defo not built for that!

I've never actually ridden a TT/Tri bike, but being a MTBer normally the road bike is quite alien to me anyway. I'd certainly be curious to see how much harder it would be.

To me the main cycle section seemed mostly flat, bar one or two hills (maybe because I'm a MTBer who trains in the Wicklow hills). Theoretically cycling solo on a relatively flat section should be faster on a TT/Tri bike. That's what makes me wonder. Would be interesting to see some one give it a go.

Enduro

Overall from looking at the bike station its a fairly even mix between road, mtb and hybrids.

That's true alright, but looking at the fastest finishers road bikes are overwhelmingly dominant.

Lumen

trasver, what's your budget?

I still think it's worth considering a cross bike since you said that you will be mainly using the bike for commuting and general fitness work. You don't need to fit 35mm knobblies for the race.

Sorry to sound like a stuck record, but I feel it's my duty as resident cross-bike evangelist/bore :pac: ...

There are some mild performance downsides of a cross bike for the road (compared to a pure "racer"): a marginal increase in frame weight, a slightly more relaxed riding position, and brakes which tend to need a little more fine tuning to get working right, and won't have the same power or finess braking from high speed.

On the plus side, you have a tougher frame, a more comfortable position for commuting, eyelets for proper mudguards/rack (if you choose the right frame) and an ability to fit a wider range of tyres to ride in everything from off-road trails to snow and ice.

No sane person would road-race on a cross bike, but then no sane person would commute on a carbon race bike.

The solution to every cycling problem is obviously "buy more bikes", and it's better to have a €1100 carbon road bike and €500 commuter hybrid/crossie/fixie than to spend €1600 on a carbon cross-bike, but if your budget is limited and you want one bike to do everything, you can do a lot worse than a nice metal cross bike.

I'll shut up now

BH2008

sean_d wrote: »

If an R3 can take 80+kgs of Cancellara across 60km of P-R cobbles and many other Belgian classics, i'd imagine it'd be fine on a few km's of lovely irish gravel track...road bikes are actually a lot sturdier than most people give them credit for.

Agreed, but I'm not sure does he use them again, it could be an expensive race if I got it wrong, anyways its a relatively new upgrade, I may feel happier about it in august!!

Enduro wrote: »

I've never actually ridden a TT/Tri bike, but being a MTBer normally the road bike is quite alien to me anyway. I'd certainly be curious to see how much harder it would be.

To me the main cycle section seemed mostly flat, bar one or two hills (maybe because I'm a MTBer who trains in the Wicklow hills). Theoretically cycling solo on a relatively flat section should be faster on a TT/Tri bike. That's what makes me wonder. Would be interesting to see some one give it a go.

....neither have I, but they do put you in a very crouched position making you quite bent over even when out of the saddle, which to me would seem to make climbing more difficult esp with breathing....In a straight TT though you are prob right it would be quicker over that route. I'd hate to be the lad struggling over that section with TT bike, trispoke,disc and aero helmet...:eek:

Fair enough, the route isn't out and out hilly...a drag up to the first hill, steep bit, dodge descent (not for an MTBer) and flat until the rise to cp, but to the average competitor a challenging route nonetheless.
Would I be correct in saying it was a v.good race for you last year?? (I browse the athletics forum!!)

Murph100

Thinking of having a go at Gaelforce this year as well. Just wondering whats the security like for the bikes, and does the transportation simply mean feckin' yer pride and joy into a heap on the back of a truck. Trying to weigh up whether to rent a bike there and not give a crap OR bring my own and always have a little niggle in the back of my mind, aside from the pain.:D

BH2008

Murph100 wrote: »

Thinking of having a go at Gaelforce this year as well. Just wondering whats the security like for the bikes, and does the transportation simply mean feckin' yer pride and joy into a heap on the back of a truck. Trying to weigh up whether to rent a bike there and not give a crap OR bring my own and always have a little niggle in the back of my mind, aside from the pain.:D

Hi Murph, the bikes are brought to the delphi centre the night before and racked in the carpark there. There is security on it the whole time, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. I don't know about the organised transportation from westport for bikes, most people drive out to delphi, you have to go there the night before to register anyway.

Murph100

Cheers BH,


That sounds alright. Is the course going to be the same as last years one ?


Murph

trasver

Wow guys that's great thanks for all suggestions.

I'm doing it to finish this year and then in subsequent years to do it more seriously!

After reading all your advice and looking online I think a cross bike is the one for me as I'm not planning on being a serious cyclist (too busy kitesurfing and surfing!) but I'd like to use one for training and commuting and the odd crazy adventure such as this!

Not sure of budget to be honest but don't want to spend a fortune, is there anywhere I could pick up a suitable second hand one (bearing in mind I'm 6' 5"!!) or if I'm to buy new where do ye recommend?

Thanks everyone, no better place than boards for good sound advice!!

@Murph, they never seem to touch your bikes. You leave them on the Friday night in Delphi resort, where you then pick them up after the run/kayak on the saturday and cycle Croagh Patrick, up and down the mountain and then pick up your bike again to head for the finish in Wesport for the fig rolls!!

Lumen

trasver wrote: »

Not sure of budget to be honest but don't want to spend a fortune, is there anywhere I could pick up a suitable second hand one (bearing in mind I'm 6' 5"!!) or if I'm to buy new where do ye recommend

Cross bikes are generally not very cheap. Sizing depends on various things, including your flexibility. Cross bikes tend to have less of a drop to the handlebars, which might mean you can get away with a smaller size, OOTH they also have shorter top tubes which could mean the reach is too short or you'll need a mahoosive stem.

Check out the drop on this (this rider is the same height as you)!

I'm sure there must be some dirty, cold, painful place on t'internet where all the crossers hang out and advertise used bikes.

edit: the Kona and Kinesis cross bikes go quite large. Pay attention to brake specification. In order of increasing effectiveness: cantilevers, mini-Vs, disc brakes. Disc brakes are illegal in UCI events, but I'll probably get them on my next cross bike. I have used cantis on a road bike, and thought they were OK, but think they're considered rubbish for this unless you use some sort of cam arrangement to increase the amount of cable pull.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

I have used cantis on a road bike, and thought they were OK, but think they're considered rubbish for this unless you use some sort of cam arrangement to increase the amount of cable pull.

It's full-size V-brakes that need the Travel Agent to increase the cable pull, cantis supposedly are adjustable to any arbitrary amount of cable pull although you may need to change the transverse cable. They are actually preferred by most cross racers due to the superior clearance and mud shedding but are fiddly.

I am looking to sell my Specialized Sirrus (58cm, I am 6ft) which may suit you, mean to put up a thread about it. Full Shimano 105 triple 9-speed drivetrain with drop bars and 105 STIs (converted from flats), takes tyres at least up to 700x35c (I did the Camino de Santiago on this size Schwalbe Marathons, 75% on road, 25% off road) probably a bit bigger.

It has served me very well as a lightweight tourer but I have replaced it with a titanium Van Nicholas. Comes with rack and mudguards, perfect for commuting or touring but I would take them off for the race! Comes with new pedals with toeclips in case you were worried, although they are not in the photo. Looking for €475 ono.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

It's full-size V-brakes that need the Travel Agent to increase the cable pull, cantis supposedly are adjustable to any arbitrary amount of cable pull although you may need to change the transverse cable. They are actually preferred by most cross racers due to the superior clearance and mud shedding but are fiddly.

Thanks for the correction. I don't remember having any problems with the cantis on my drop-barred hybrid, but I'll always fussing around with my mini-Vs.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

Thanks for the correction. I don't remember having any problems with the cantis on my drop-barred hybrid, but I'll always fussing around with my mini-Vs.

Sounds like you need an adjustable noodle

Enduro

BH2008 wrote: »

Fair enough, the route isn't out and out hilly...a drag up to the first hill, steep bit, dodge descent (not for an MTBer) and flat until the rise to cp, but to the average competitor a challenging route nonetheless.
Would I be correct in saying it was a v.good race for you last year?? (I browse the athletics forum!!)

Yeah, it was a good race for me ... surprisingly so. Definitely agree that its a challenging route. There is enough hilly stuff in there to keep it interesting, especially the climb up to the CP carpark. That descent was dodge enough for MTBers when we're on road bikes and therefore lacking our normal disk brakes. I know one pal of mine had a close encounter with one of the walls decending that.

Peterx

In general terms if you can only buy one bike I'd go with a cyclocrosser, they are very versatile for commuting, touring, cx racing (obviously) and the easier adventure races. A spare set of decent wheels (Mavic aksium) with faster tyres is a lot cheaper then a second bike.

Don't mind anyone who says it's a flat course, they're talking through their quads. I saw more people walking their bikes up the two steep climbs then I saw cycling.
Padraic Marray would have won without his puncture but that's part of the fun of race tactics, Enduro had heavier slower tyres but crucially didn't puncture and equally crucially was the quickest runner all day:)

Lumen

Just found this article about brakes.

"There is no good reason to use V-brakes on most drop-bar bikes anymore. Instead I would recommend getting Avid Shorty, Tektro Onyx, or other affordable yet good cantilevers with a medium profile geometry. I've sold all of the brakes, levers, and adapters shown on this webpage and now use cantilevers on my drop bar touring bikes."

He doesn't mention mini-V brakes, which I think post-date the original article.

My Tricross comes with brackets for both cantis and (mini-)Vs, whereas the Focus Mares has only mounts for mini-Vs.

You pays your money...

Enduro

Peterx wrote: »

Don't mind anyone who says it's a flat course, they're talking through their quads. I saw more people walking their bikes up the two steep climbs then I saw cycling.

I didn't see you walking the bike, that's for sure Rocketing up the hill tormenting the poor lad in 3rd more like it. (I think Peterx was the only one of the leading racers on a CX bike, so his fast road cycling times are particularly impressive).

It's a testimony to Boards that a thread like this has replies in it from all the winners of the race in its history!

cb102

Hi
I'm also doing GF6 this year for the 1st time and am torn between whether I use a MTB Hardtail (with semi slicks) or a Single speed track bike.

Am I nuts even considering a Single speed track bike? I commute on this bike and have a couple of decent MTBs. The track bike is just so fast and light on the roads and it'll kill me on the hardtail.

Is the GF circuit too hilly for a track bike?

I mountain bike quite a bit so am use to hills etc.
All feedback is welcome. Thanks in advance.

Enduro

IMHO, yes it would be nuts to use an SS on GF. You could always find some hilly routes nearby and do some time trials on your various set-ups to give a more definitive answer, based on your own capabilities

cb102

Thanks Enduro.
Any other takers ??

blorg

Nuts if you want to be competitive, e.g. if you are looking for a placing or good time. If you are doing it to complete, why not. It will not make you faster, put it that way.

cb102

Thanks blorg.
My goal is just to complete it but a MTB can be just too inefficient.

My main fear is being out of the saddle trying to climb hills and expelling too much energy, as I don't have gears on the bike.
Is it a very hilly course?

blorg

Put slicks on the MTB? I haven't done it myself so not sure about the hilliness.

Raam

blorg wrote: »

Put slicks on the MTB? I haven't done it myself so not sure about the hilliness.

I did this on my MTB when I started commuting. It looks very odd, but makes a big difference for the road.

Poncherello

Enduro wrote: »

There is no question that a road bike is the fastest bike for the GF. I also cycled up the entire off-road section on a road bike with slick road tyres. The only question mark for me would be whether a TT/Tri bike would be faster than a standard road bike.



He was leading on the ground (by about 1 minute or so), but was probably one or two minutes behind on adjustments for the kayaking timeout. Having said that, he was fastest on the bike, and probably would have made that up on the cycle to Westport without the puncture.

so would you not stick some clip on earo bars on your road bike
What pressure did you have your slick tyres at ?

djpm

cb102 wrote: »

Hi
I'm also doing GF6 this year for the 1st time and am torn between whether I use a MTB Hardtail (with semi slicks) or a Single speed track bike.

Am I nuts even considering a Single speed track bike? I commute on this bike and have a couple of decent MTBs. The track bike is just so fast and light on the roads and it'll kill me on the hardtail.

Is the GF circuit too hilly for a track bike?

I mountain bike quite a bit so am use to hills etc.
All feedback is welcome. Thanks in advance.

The hill in the cycle section is up to 20% so unless you've thighs like Stefan Schmacher and you know his chemist I'd go for the MTB with slicks or borrow a roadie

bikergal

Hi, I have just entered gael force too... not entirely sure what I am letting myself in for:D

I am planning on using a road bike (racer) and I have heard from friends that have competed last year that a road bike is ok as there is only a bit of the course that is off road.

A road bike and a pair of 28cc tyres should do the job me hopes!

A mtb might be too slow on the road.

novarapid

thinking of entering this, can you enter as a team? or is it individual?anyone got a map of the bike section, looked on website but didnt see any?(that doesn't mean its not there)
If i was to do this, would i have to/would it be better change my tyres from 25cc road bike tyres?
Thanks,

PS boards.ie is a great distraction when your meant to be studying!

djpm

novarapid wrote: »

thinking of entering this, can you enter as a team? or is it individual?anyone got a map of the bike section, looked on website but didnt see any?(that doesn't mean its not there)
If i was to do this, would i have to/would it be better change my tyres from 25cc road bike tyres?
Thanks,

PS boards.ie is a great distraction when your meant to be studying!

http://www.gaelforcewest.ie/files/images/GF6-2.pdf
2nd page shows cycle routes

You enter as an individual but several people can enter under a group name.
I've done it on 25's (I think, maybe even 23's).

novarapid

thanks for that, the 3D video isnt working for me.

Whats the story with after, is there a party, do people camp there? I've been around some adventure races and there is always a great atmosphere, suppose the weather is a big factor?

petethedrummer

Anyone got any race reports?

MrCreosote

petethedrummer wrote: »

Anyone got any race reports?

Over on the athletics/marathon/tri forum

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055556483&page=35

cb102

In the end I did GF (2009) on a MTB hardtail with slicks.
It was the perfect bike choice, as it's fast, light and perfect for the off road section. (I turned on the suspension for that bit).

Did the race in 4h 31min, so very happy!

donal_mcg

Have a look at the athletics forum for some not too happy people. It was my 2nd time doing it, so the weather was perfect, the scenery and route breathtaking, the spirit of all taking part was great with plenty of banter and encouragement from all.
It was however, ridiculously badly organised and controlled. Rip-off Ireland is not dead people, or at least these f*ckers are trying to keep the spirit of it alive. Everything that was in the organisers hands was done cack-handedly and the event seemed to be designed only to extract as much cash from the competitors as possible.

FrankGrimes

Wow, seems the Wicklow 200 has a strong competitor for the title of Worst Organisation for a Mass Participation Event.

€85 is an extraordinarily high price to pay to race on public roads so you be expecting top notch facilities for that. Glad I wasn't able to attend as that kind of incompetence would drive me nuts. It's a pity cos I really like the idea of doing this event next year but I'd be reluctant to line the coffers of the organisers even. Might get a gang of people together to do it privately next summer.

Timmah!

It was the hardest thing I've ever done. It took me 8 hours, the last three of which were in lashings of rain. I was just pleased to finish to be honest....the organisation was far worse than WW200