Reductions in social welfare payments

lg123

hi all, i think i heard yesterday that reductions in social welfare payments were being looked at in the upcoming budget. anyone any idea what levels could be looked at here? 1, 2, 5, 10%?

jhegarty

No one seems to have any idea what's planned.

But sure everyone will be got some way by either increased taxes or reduced benefits.

Nolanger

Great - looking forward to an unemployment protest march.

fifomania

I know there are people who will say "good, take it off them!" but I think it's unfair that money will be taken off social welfare because it's little enough to live on a week as it is. I hate that the little person is paying for the big man's mistake :mad:

ntlbell

I hope they're reduced but I don't think we will see a big reduction it will probably be something like recent increases

a couple of euro and probably get rid of the double week for xmas.

Breaktown

I'm terrified of a reduction. I only get 90 cent more than what my rent is. If they reduce it, I won't be able to pay rent at all.

pvt.joker

fifomania wrote: »

I know there are people who will say "good, take it off them!" but I think it's unfair that money will be taken off social welfare because it's little enough to live on a week as it is. I hate that the little person is paying for the big man's mistake :mad:

Do you realise that in england the dole is 64 pounds a week, its 200+ euro a week here. It should be cut by at least 20%

pseudonym1

They uped it a couple of euros before xmas. Reverting back to previous rate would be permissable.
To breaktown - you ought to find out about rent supplement - if you are on SW in most cases this is an entitlement.

Breaktown

I can't get rent allowance because the landlord won't accept it. :rolleyes:

Otaku Girl

pvt.joker wrote: »

Do you realise that in england the dole is 64 pounds a week, its 200+ euro a week here. It should be cut by at least 20%

But it's far cheaper to live in the UK so that's a poor comparison. Holland have 300 Euro a month social welfare and everythings cheaper there.
Anyway, I think cuts should start at the top-hey maybe Cowen and Harney might lose some weight if they ate less!

Anyway,did'nt we just have a budget? A tad early to be speculating about the next one...?

apoch632

There is going to be a mini budget on April 7th

fifomania

For a start it's cheaper to live in the UK. 20% off €200 a week mightn't seem like a lot but every bit adds up. My welfare benefit has been cut by €70 already so for me to take another cut is really disheartening. Why can't higher paid people take bigger cuts and even things out?

dingding

Breaktown wrote: »

I can't get rent allowance because the landlord won't accept it. :rolleyes:

Can you move to a different accomodation.

pseudonym1

Breaktown wrote: »

I can't get rent allowance because the landlord won't accept it. :rolleyes:

How do you live on 90 cent a week!! Realistically pay bills etc...? Are they not leagally required to accept it? - Would you consider moving?

Otaku Girl

apoch632 wrote: »

There is going to be a mini budget on April 7th

I see.If that's the case I very much doubt there will be a cut since they just increased it a couple of months ago-unless it's a cut of two Euro or something.

greenman09

Its on 7th apr which is weeks away. Quite frankly the dole in NI is not enough for anyone to live on. 200pw for some lazy arses to sit and do nothin is a joke. No incentive to work wi that kind of money. I sympathise with those who lost their jobs and are living on this. Its the lazy ones i dont.

ntlbell

Breaktown wrote: »

I can't get rent allowance because the landlord won't accept it. :rolleyes:

find someone who will?

jhegarty

Otaku Girl wrote: »

I see.If that's the case I very much doubt there will be a cut since they just increased it a couple of months ago-unless it's a cut of two Euro or something.

Have you watched the news even once in last two months ?

greendom

ntlbell wrote: »

find someone who will?

Absolutely - if your area is anything like mine there's plenty of availability out there and landlords are finding it hard to let properties. Maybe the threat of you moving will make him reconsider - if not you should really carry out the threat...

Breaktown

I only recently moved here so I'm not moving again. Plus I'd lose my deposit. There weren't many places that would accept rent allowance when I was looking. My last two places I lived in wouldn't accept it either. I wish they weren't allowed to refuse it!

ntlbell

Breaktown wrote: »

I only recently moved here so I'm not moving again. Plus I'd lose my deposit. There weren't many places that would accept rent allowance when I was looking. My last two places I lived in wouldn't accept it either. I wish they weren't allowed to refuse it!

well if your not willing to help yourself.

I don't see why anyone else should.

greendom

Breaktown wrote: »

I only recently moved here so I'm not moving again. Plus I'd lose my deposit. There weren't many places that would accept rent allowance when I was looking. My last two places I lived in wouldn't accept it either. I wish they weren't allowed to refuse it!

I can understand all that - it is massively outweighed though by only having 90c a week to live on.

At least speak to your landlord and explain your situation to him. At the very least he may reduce the rent

greendom

And have you had a look to see the availability in your area recently...

http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?s

Getting rent allowance would make any reduction in benefits insignificant compared to your current situation

jhegarty

Breaktown wrote: »

There weren't many places that would accept rent allowance when I was looking.

So there was some places that did ?

The_Conductor

fifomania wrote: »

I know there are people who will say "good, take it off them!" but I think it's unfair that money will be taken off social welfare because it's little enough to live on a week as it is. I hate that the little person is paying for the big man's mistake :mad:

Everyone is going to pay- not just the little people- absolutely everyone. Our budget deficit this year is now going be over 23 *BILLION* When they cut public sector pay there a few months back- they saved 2 billion- only 1/10 of the deficit.

The costs of doing business here has to decrease. Our minimum wage is too high. Our social welfare entitlements are too high. Our direct taxation rates are too low. Our indirect taxation is pegged in silly manners (which is how the government got addicted to Stamp Duty and vehicle VRT).

We cannot afford to support a benefit state as we have been doing- and the biggest group of tax payers- the 25 to 40 year olds, are saddled with personal debt of previously unheard of levels. Its not a case that simply ratcheting up tax rates is going to work- it isn't. What needs to happen is a radical reduction in social welfare entitlements, further reductions in public sector pay etc.

It is going to hurt everyone- but Ireland Inc has been living well beyond its means- and has to seriously tighten its belt........

the iceman come

I fear we will see a whole lot of homeless people very soon, this country is a basket case,there is no money in the coffers to continue dole payments and Pub Sector wages at current rates. Private sector is on life support as it is and now we have the added threat of strikes from those in their cushy cushy pensionable jobs,gimme a break please, the fact is if we do radically cut dole and other payments ,folks wont be able to afford rents or mortgages,and yet we have over 200,000 vacant properties which no-one can buy.I dont know it just gets worse and worse,rant over.:(

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

I hope they're reduced but I don't think we will see a big reduction it will probably be something like recent increases

a couple of euro and probably get rid of the double week for xmas.

It's little enough as it is, and as for you saying get rid of the double week for Xmas that's not right, families on welfare depend on that.

If the government want to reduce welfare payments then they may start by reducing the cost of living first.

The_Conductor

hellboy99 wrote: »

It's little enough as it is, and as for you saying get rid of the double week for Xmas that's not right, families on welfare depend on that.

If the government want to reduce welfare payments then they may start by reducing the cost of living first.

Fair enough- the cost of living has fallen by over 3% year todate, and if current trends continue will fall by ~11% by the end of 2009. A lot of the recent increases in utility prices- aka gas and electricity, are being wound backwards, and the biggest falls are actually in food and clothing. Petrol and diesel have also fallen- by almost 45%, in the past 12 months.

So- by this measure a reduction of 10% is tenable- it wouldn't leave people worse off?

dresden8

smccarrick wrote: »

Fair enough- the cost of living has fallen by over 3% year todate, and if current trends continue will fall by ~11% by the end of 2009. A lot of the recent increases in utility prices- aka gas and electricity, are being wound backwards, and the biggest falls are actually in food and clothing. Petrol and diesel have also fallen- by almost 45%, in the past 12 months.

So- by this measure a reduction of 10% is tenable- it wouldn't leave people worse off?

Petrol and diesel are falling from historic highs.

Cost of food and health is still going up.

Anybody who doesn't have a mortgage or doesn't do much mileage won't notice that 3%.

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/prices/current/cpi.pdf

Page 3.

smccarrick

smccarrick wrote: »

Fair enough- the cost of living has fallen by over 3% year todate, and if current trends continue will fall by ~11% by the end of 2009. A lot of the recent increases in utility prices- aka gas and electricity, are being wound backwards, and the biggest falls are actually in food and clothing. Petrol and diesel have also fallen- by almost 45%, in the past 12 months.

So- by this measure a reduction of 10% is tenable- it wouldn't leave people worse off?

Cost of living has not come down enough yet to do it.

As for petrol and diesel falling by near 45% I haven't seen it, it's going up here instead of down. In the last year for me I have seen my rent, ESB, phone, grocery shopping bills all go up (now shop up north for my groceries).

DFD

Breaktown wrote: »

I can't get rent allowance because the landlord won't accept it. :rolleyes:

if his a landlord doesn't he have to be registered,if so would not accepting it be illegal?

The_Conductor

hellboy99 wrote: »

Cost of living has not come down enough yet to do it.

As for petrol and diesel falling by near 45% I haven't seen it, it's going up here instead of down. In the last year for me I have seen my rent, ESB, phone, grocery shopping bills all go up (now shop up north for my groceries).

Sorry- I said year todate for fall in cost of living (i.e. 2009 todate).

Cost of health has increased- particularly in light of the government levy on all under 55s. I disagree with this on principle. We are slaughtered with indirect taxation in Ireland- they mask a myriad of ills. It would be far more honest to abolish all the indirect taxation and add a lump onto income taxes, and lower the thresholds to bring people into the tax net.

Cost of food has fallen- however this is largely due to people abondoning the likes of M&S, Superquinn and Tesco and moving towards Aldi and Lidl. Department of Agriculture figures (weekly market prices for agricultural produce and daily market prices) has however shown a continuing downward trend in food costs. If you haven't seen these decreases- unfortunately you need to shop around. If this means buggering up to Newly or Lisburn- so be it- its what I do every 4-6 weeks for dry goods.

Petrol and diesel- once again shop around. Here in Dublin you can get Diesel for 86.9c (Mount Brown) and Petrol for 94.9 (the south quays). March '08 you were looking at diesel prices of 138.9 and petrol of 134.9 (it was curious that petrol was cheaper than diesel- with the increases of duty on petrol, but not diesel in the budget- this was reversed back again).

I'm saving 14% on my electricity by switching to Bord Gais and installing a night meter. 103,000 other canny people have done likewise (Bord Gais hit their entire target for 2009 in just under 4 weeks- goes to show people will move if there is an incentive for them to do so.

The Irish economy is set to contract by between 6 and 10%- which will in itself kill consumer activity further and in turn further lower inflation. Inflation has fallen by 5.5% since last October and is falling by between .4 and 1.2% month on month.

Its not the case of has inflation come down sufficiently to cut social welfare payments. Its more the case of will we allow our financial situation to continue deteriorating- we are already considered to be most at risk of defaulting on sovereign debt in the Eurozone- we, along with Portugal, Greece and Spain- are part of the 'PIGS' of Europe- as investors are calling us.

Re: the double payment at Christmas- by the selfsame token, many people who work came to rely on a similar payment at Christmas- it was very common, up to last year. It does take a lot of effort, along with a lot of budgetting skills. Many people are failing. MABS are snowed under- with over 3000 people seeking their advice last month alone. Most of these people are acknowledged to be people in the 25-40 age group- most often in dual income households- where one person has lost their job and they just can't make ends meet on one salary and do not qualify for any social welfare assistance.

In the current context everyone is going to suffer- including social welfare recipients. Its unrealistic to expect otherwise. However- our cost base is going to fall- and part of this will have to be a revisitation of our unrealistic minimum wage (which is the highest in the whole world).

We are all going to hurt far more than we are doing at present, before we see the light at the end of the tunnel........

The_Conductor

DFD wrote: »

if his a landlord doesn't he have to be registered,if so would not accepting it be illegal?

Yes- the landlord has to be registered with the PRTB.
However he/she is under no obligation whatsoever to accept rent-allowance.
A lot of landlords do not like rent-allowance tenants- a few bad apples have given many very decent tenants a bad rap.
Keep in mind- its common practice for tenants to ask landlords to put false details on the rent-allowance form- as the cut-off for rent allowance is set at a low level and many people like better accommodation. So- the rent-allowance would have to be topped up by the tenant. The other problem is that rent-allowance is not a constant- it depends on a person's personal circumstances- so if they got a few extra hours work one month- it may have massive negative consequences on their eligibility the following month. In addition- its paid over to the tenant- so there can often be difficulty in making up the difference- given that the allowance is not a constant........

Its annoying for many tenants- but given the circumstances of the scheme and the way its administered- its not surprising that there are many people out there who shy away from the scheme.

nc13

I lost my job last year because my wife is sick. My outgoings are nearly 200 euro a month more than the dole, I could'nt live on much less than I am getting. I cant go back to work because we have 3 small kids and my wife cant take care of them. I have debts that I could cover when I was working but cant meet them now. If the dole gets cut I have no chance.

The_Conductor

nc13 wrote: »

I lost my job last year because my wife is sick. My outgoings are nearly 200 euro a month more than the dole, I could'nt live on much less than I am getting. I cant go back to work because we have 3 small kids and my wife cant take care of them. I have debts that I could cover when I was working but cant meet them now. If the dole gets cut I have no chance.

I do sympathise with you.
The purpose of the dole is not to finance pre-existing debt though- its no wonder you have difficulties. You really should contact MABS concerning your finances- and if possible try to renegotiate your debts. Most lenders are actively writing down personal debts of people who have become unemployed or made redundant.

inforfun

Otaku Girl wrote: »

Holland have 300 Euro a month social welfare and everythings cheaper there.

Eh... wrong:

Dutch "bijstand" which is the minimum you get.
If you lose your job you get a % of your last earned salary for a certain period, depending how long you have been working.
On top of this you can apply for rent relief (part of the rent, not the entire rent). I agree with you though that things re cheaper in Holland. You ll be able to find a 2 bedroom apartment for the price you get a double room here.

Single person € 609,83
Single parent € 853,77
Married couple € 1.219,67
(source in Dutch )

Although salaries before tax are somewhat higher in Holland than here, after tax you ll see only about 50% of that appearing in your bank account.

nc13

smccarrick, the dole is there so you can pay whatever bills you have and that inclueds whatever debt you have. I have a debt management company working on my debts but even with reduced payments I am sinking.

irishbrain

I have heard reports tonight that the Standard Social Welfare Payment is due to be decreased to €134.60 p/w and will save over 4 billon in revenue for the year.

FreedomJoe

irishbrain wrote: »

I have heard reports tonight that the Standard Social Welfare Payment is due to be decreased to €134.60 p/w and will save over 4 billon in revenue for the year.

I do hope this is a pathetic attempt of a April fools joke?

Because it thats the real figure there will be RIOTS on the streets!

Xiney

it must be an april fool's joke - savings of 70 euro per week * 52 weeks a year * 500 000 people (heard on the news there might be half a million signing on by the end of the year, scary news alone)

= 1.8 billion


So the 4 billion is either a calculation out of left field or it's a fake fact/poisson d'avril

The_Conductor

irishbrain wrote: »

I have heard reports tonight that the Standard Social Welfare Payment is due to be decreased to €134.60 p/w and will save over 4 billon in revenue for the year.

Who knows- the same news programme says that ordinary people's net take home pay will be down by over 200 a month. For most people thats around 10-12%.

What the government tend to do is leak worst case scenarios- then when the very worst doesn't happen, people are relieved. Its a form of reverse psychology. The only problem at the moment is that public representatives might get lynched in the interim.......

ntlbell

FreedomJoe wrote: »

I do hope this is a pathetic attempt of a April fools joke?

Because it thats the real figure there will be RIOTS on the streets!

There shouldn't be I still think 134e is too much I'd like to see it halved.

lg123

ntlbell wrote: »

There shouldn't be I still think 134e is too much I'd like to see it halved.

can you expand on this?

ntlbell

lg123 wrote: »

can you expand on this?

What else is there to add?

If you take the weekly dole for a single person.

Add in rent allowance

clothes allowance

heating allowance

medical card

I'm not sure what else one can claim it works out about 23-25k a year

This is crazy.

The whole welfare system needs reform.

A single person who gets the vast majority of things paid for them does not need 200e+ a week, it should be the bare minimum to survive.

no ntl
no phone
no sky
no broadband

the bare minimum to survive until you find a job

if you haven't found some form of work after 6 months it's reduced again.

A course offered, refuse it and you lose your dole.

reviewed again after 12 months, reduced etc

it's currently a free for all and a bloody disgrace imo

lg123

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not sure what else one can claim it works out about 23-25k a year

please tell me how i can get 23k a year?

ntlbell wrote: »

clothes allowance

i never heard of this, thanks. do you know where i go to scab this?

greendom

Why not just put anyone unable to find work into prison. Serves them right for being lazy layabouts :rolleyes:

irishbrain

ntlbell wrote: »

What else is there to add?

If you take the weekly dole for a single person.

Add in rent allowance

clothes allowance

heating allowance

medical card

I'm not sure what else one can claim it works out about 23-25k a year

This is crazy.

The whole welfare system needs reform.

A single person who gets the vast majority of things paid for them does not need 200e+ a week, it should be the bare minimum to survive.

no ntl
no phone
no sky
no broadband

the bare minimum to survive until you find a job

if you haven't found some form of work after 6 months it's reduced again.

A course offered, refuse it and you lose your dole.

reviewed again after 12 months, reduced etc

it's currently a free for all and a bloody disgrace imo

No phone or broadband? Do these two things not actually help people to apply for and find jobs?

The bare minimum to survive? In that case, you would need to offer a free travel pass because people need to travel to interviews. The cost of a return train journey from Drogheda to Dublin is normally over €17.00.

The heating allowance is for the elderly. The clothes allowance applies to children going to school.

kn

Xiney wrote: »

it must be an april fool's joke - savings of 70 euro per week * 52 weeks a year * 500 000 people (heard on the news there might be half a million signing on by the end of the year, scary news alone)

= 1.8 billion


So the 4 billion is either a calculation out of left field or it's a fake fact/poisson d'avril

Add in those receiving Disability, Lone Parents Allowance, Carers, Pensions + if the main payment is falling €70 then the dependents allowance will also fall circa €50. So all those added up will get you to circa €4billion.

But yeah, April fools.;)

The_Conductor

lg123 wrote: »

please tell me how i can get 23k a year?

Dole = approx. 10,800
Rent Allowance = (up to) 7,600 (depends on circumstances)
Medical card = 960 (thats the cost to the exchequer of supplying it on an annual basis)
Heating/electricity/phone allowances = 700 (depends on other factors)

Supplementary payments (back to school etc) = 840

Comes to just shy of EUR21k. Note: not everyone would be entitled to all these payments- and there are additional payments that some people would be entitled to.

ntlbell's point is that we have a very generous social welfare system- and it has to be reformed in order to make working more attractive than claiming social welfare benefits. In most cases its actually financially more worth while to claim social welfare benefits than work on a salary of under 31,600 (this rises to over 40k if its a family with 4 children claiming all allowances).

If you sit down and do the sums- it is actually quite startling.

I am not suggesting for a moment that the vast majority of people are delibertly claiming social welfare entitlements- or that social welfare entitlements enable any sort of an extravagent existence- they don't. I am simply suggesting that there is a disconnect between people's entitlements, and the greater working economy. It doesn't add up.

ntlbell

lg123 wrote: »

please tell me how i can get 23k a year?



i never heard of this, thanks. do you know where i go to scab this?

I assume your local welfare office or reliving officer?

ntlbell

irishbrain wrote: »

No phone or broadband? Do these two things not actually help people to apply for and find jobs?

You can use a phone in your local social welfare office free of charge.

You can access the internet for free in your local library.

A free buss pass is a great idea.