Most over rated boxer ever

matty84

Who do you lads think is the most over-rated, over-hyped boxers of all time????

Id have to put klitchko (wrong spelling i know) on top of my list, and pavlik a close second

walshb

Naz! A clown, not a boxer!

Johnduddy

Amir Khan - Sky Sports hype baby..looking forward to see him sparked out again in the near future

matty84

walshb wrote: »

Naz! A clown, not a boxer!

Yeah what an arrogant little prat he was!!
What about calzaghe do you rate him??

sligobhoy67

walshb wrote: »

Naz! A clown, not a boxer!

no way - I am going to have to disagree with you there

walshb

I never liked Cal's style, but what a man and what a champion.
He is the real deal!

Naz was not a boxer, he fought and beat a lot of average men, he was so
over hyped, no jab, no combos, no straight right or left, leaping and jumping and posing.
He met MAB and was exposed. His power was hyped so much.

Who did he beat? Kelley? Johnson? Robinson?

Naz wouldn't have lasted long against the cream from years gone by.

sligobhoy67

matty84 wrote: »

Yeah what an arrogant little prat he was!!
What about calzaghe do you rate him??

Calzaghe aint overrated - in fact he is probably underrated imo

sligobhoy67

Johnduddy wrote: »

Amir Khan - Sky Sports hype baby..looking forward to see him sparked out again in the near future

I'll go with that.

also A-Farce Fraudly Harrison

what about Barry McGuigan - the Hall of Famer!!!

walshb

Barry?

You think Naz wasn't overrated and you ask if Barry was?

Barry whups Naz, breaks him any way you imagine.

Khan is an amazing boxer, amazing, just a damn suspect chin.
I don't think he deserves to be discussed. His career is still
so fresh.

sligobhoy67

walshb wrote: »

Barry?

You think Naz wasn't overrated and you ask if Barry was?

Barry whups Naz, breaks him any way you imagine.

Khan is an amazing boxer, amazing, just a damn suspect chin.
I don't think he deserves to be discussed. His career is still
so fresh.

fair enough about Khant.

But I do reckon Naz beats Barry.

matty84

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

I'll go with that.

also A-Farce Fraudly Harrison

Don't you mean Audrey Harrison??He's a bleeding joke!:rolleyes:

Enzo Maccarinelli was found out last week as well not as good as he was made out to be

Johnduddy

walshb wrote: »

Barry?

You think Naz wasn't overrated and you ask if Barry was?

Barry whups Naz, breaks him any way you imagine.

Khan is an amazing boxer, amazing, just a damn suspect chin.
I don't think he deserves to be discussed. His career is still
so fresh.

Yes its so early in his career but the way they were talking about him after the barrera fight pissed me off bigtime. Its in skys interest to big him up and chose to ignore the facts. He beat an ageing barerra on a TD and they go on about him again like he's a world beater.

Khan can box very well on the front foot and his defence has improved but you cant get away from the fact that he has a glass chin that will be exposed against anybody that catches him. Its impossible for Khan to go the rest of his career without being tagged no matter how much his defense improves.

I agree with you on McGuigan - Genuine world champion, what bad management it was to put him in 120 degree heat against Cruz.

sligobhoy67

Johnduddy wrote: »

Yes its so early in his career but the way they were talking about him after the barrera fight pissed me off bigtime. Its in skys interest to big him up and chose to ignore the facts. He beat an ageing barerra on a TD and they go on about him again like he's a world beater.

Khan can box very well on the front foot and his defence has improved but you cant get away from the fact that he has a glass chin that will be exposed against anybody that catches him. Its impossible for Khan to go the rest of his career without being tagged no matter how much his defense improves.

I agree with you on McGuigan - Genuine world champion, what bad management it was to put him in 120 degree heat against Cruz.

What I am saying about Barry is that he is in the World Hall of Fame - do you think he deserves that place?

Johnduddy

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

What I am saying about Barry is that he is in the World Hall of Fame - do you think he deserves that place?

Hall of fame no - He only had two sucessful defences so how and why they decided to induct him Im not sure ?

sligobhoy67

Johnduddy wrote: »

Hall of fame no - He only had two sucessful defences so how and why they decided to induct him Im not sure ?

and thats the reason that I think he is overrated

here is another - Jack Johnson!

Big Ears

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

What I am saying about Barry is that he is in the World Hall of Fame - do you think he deserves that place?

Hall of Fame, not Hall of boxing's best fighters.
You should know a big reason he's there is what he achieved outside the ring with what he did in it.

cowzerp

joe calzaghe, yet to fight a true great fighter in there peak, unproven. Same could be said about mayweather as far as been lb for lb best.

unknown13

Calzaghe, Frank Warren protected him for years and got away with it because of the state the WBO is.

matty84

Agree with the above comment on calzaghe
What about lennox lewis, he always seemed to avoid mike tyson in his peak and became champion when riddick bowe gave up his belt

sligobhoy67

Big Ears wrote: »

Hall of Fame, not Hall of boxing's best fighters.
You should know a big reason he's there is what he achieved outside the ring with what he did in it.

not sure what you mea, are you saying he got into the Hall of Fame because he formed the PBU, was a popular fighter, cross the sectarian divide or what?

The Hall of Fame is supposed to be the Hall of boxing's best fighters.

Big Ears

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

not sure what you mea, are you saying he got into the Hall of Fame because he formed the PBU, was a popular fighter, cross the sectarian divide or what?

The Hall of Fame is supposed to be the Hall of boxing's best fighters.

A mixture of his talents and breaking down borders between people in the north got him into the Hall of Fame. If the hall of fame was just about boxing they wouldn't have categories for things other than fighters.

It would of been disrespectful to put Barry in another category considering how good a fighter he was, even if he wasn't quite deserving of a place and fighting merit alone.

Johner

cowzerp wrote: »

joe calzaghe, yet to fight a true great fighter in there peak, unproven. Same could be said about mayweather as far as been lb for lb best.

Agreed about Calzaghe.

Mayweather has ducked the likes of Cotto but he has beaten alot of good fighters. The likes of Hatton,De La Hoya,Judah,Gatti,Castillo,Chavez and Corrales. I understand where you are coming from though.

joepenguin

Calzaghe underrated due to his style. Naz? No way, should have been undisputed champ. Pity he reacted to the loss the way he did.
Who ever rated Harrison? over hyped yes, not over rated.

A fighter I think is over rated is one Kelly Pavlik. Always did. He brilliant dont get me wrong, but over rated.
Hatton a little over hyped, a lot of his fights were just ugly to watch for a guy whos claims to be one of the most exciting boxers in the game.
De La Hoya at times was either over rated or over hyped.

Also any non Irish fighter on rte :P

Big Ears

joepenguin wrote: »

Also any non Irish fighter on rte :P

Those guys are 'World Class fighters'

Oddly enough we actually did get a World Class fighter, and I', not sure they even mentioned it

joepenguin

Big Ears wrote: »

Those guys are 'World Class fighters'

Oddly enough we actually did get a World Class fighter, and I', not sure they even mentioned it

Haha, thats right, they didnt mention that he was world class every 10 seconds so he musnt be.
Edit: but seriously he should have been hyped him up a lot more.

Big Ears

joepenguin wrote: »

Haha, thats right, they didnt mention that he was world class every 10 seconds so he musnt be.
Edit: but seriously he should have been hyped him up a lot more.

You know what I don't think there was any need to, because in the past none of the opponents, not even the best of them(Esham Pickering, Howard Eastman, Yori Boy Campas) were really World Class.

This guy was and I think even the general 'haven't got a ****ing clue about boxing' public will be able to see that when they compare Cordoba to any opponent an Irish fighter has faced on RTÉ. They'll see how good he was, and in their heads they'll know he's World Class.

Plus he held a World title, by assumption you'd expect him to be World Class.

joepenguin

Big Ears wrote: »

not even the best of them(Esham Pickering, Howard Eastman, Yori Boy Campas) were really World Class.

.......................
Plus he held a World title, by assumption you'd expect him to be World Class.

Thats true, although in fairness there have been a few good opponents in Irish rings in the last few years, world class aside. Pickering, Eastman, Campas, Wright, Voronin, Gibbs. Sipos was also decent.

sligobhoy67

joepenguin wrote: »

Thats true, although in fairness there have been a few good opponents in Irish rings in the last few years, world class aside. Pickering, Eastman, Campas, Wright, Voronin, Gibbs. Sipos was also decent.

Pickering, Eastman, Campas and Gibbs - past it

Wright - unproven

Voronin, Sipos - average fighter with a dig.

Big Ears

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

Pickering, Eastman, Campas and Gibbs - past it

Wright - unproven

Voronin, Sipos - average fighter with a dig.

Pickering wasn't past it for me, he still had plenty left against Dunne, Eastman was well past his best but was so good at his best he was still a very good test.

Wright is very good. He gave Ajose Olusegun real problems aswell as McCloskey and he's a very good fighter at European level. His record may not look that good now but I hope Wright continues to get some decent opportunities at around British level because I think he'll take them, a damn good fighter.

But as has been said, we've had no one near Cordoba's class.

joepenguin

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

Pickering, Eastman, Campas and Gibbs - past it

Wright - unproven

Voronin, Sipos - average fighter with a dig.

You're not too far wrong in fairness but given the timing of the fights and the stages the Irish fighters were at in their careers these guys were good opponents. Especially Pickering. They were even fights and none of them came to lose. Much better quality opposition then other oppoents we've seen.

eagle eye

Overrated. Theres been a lot of heavyweights


Henry Akiwande
Michael Grant
Danny Williams after the Mike Tyson fight.
Gerry Cooney
Shannon Briggs

I could go on but enough and I'll add Jeff Lacy to that list.

Hangballlouie

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

no way - I am going to have to disagree with you there

+1

Nas on his day was amazing, he imo just lost his way.

The money, fame etc got to his head and he fell out of love with the sport long before his loss to Barrera.
If he had stayed with Ingle and had good people around him, he could've been one of the greatest ever.
Don't let peoples personalities get in the way of judging them, if thats the case, then PBF is s**t.

On a side issue, I remember when I was about 14-15, Nas came to our gym as Brendan Ingles twin Berney was our trainer. It was amazing to see him and he couldn't have been nice to the lads in the gym.
Amazing fighter.

T-K-O

Naz - and its nothing to do with personalities. He UD The Pocket Rocket who was fighting way above his best weight but if Wayne had a punch that fight could have gone against him.

His first real test was MAB and he was schooled BIG TIME.

I always thought Lemon Lewis was over rated.

Hangballlouie

T-K-O wrote: »

Naz - and its nothing to do with personalities. He UD The Pocket Rocket who was fighting way above his best weight but if Wayne had a punch that fight could have gone against him.

His first real test was MAB and he was schooled BIG TIME.

I always thought Lemon Lewis was over rated.

Wrong and wrong imo.

Nas won clearly against Wayne, watch it again without the rose-tinted glasses. There have been many men with a good punch in with Nas and they didn't stop him so where you got that analysis from I will never know, the guy could take a punch, he might have went down, put he got up and did the job.

By 98 when he fought Wayne he had already started to change with the american money and his brothers ever increasing influence taking a hold of him. His focus was fading and he didn't care about the sport anymore, the guy had millions in the bank and forgot all about what was important.

Lewis is a guy I cannot knock as he went after the guys who had beaten him. The guy was class and had a heart, and never ducked anyone. He is was also involved in the last great heavyweight fight against Vitali, a fight I believe he was beginning to dominate.

But you know as well as I do T.K.O, opinions are like a**holes.

T-K-O

hangballlouie wrote: »

Wrong and wrong imo.

Nas won clearly against Wayne, watch it again without the rose-tinted glasses. There have been many men with a good punch in with Nas and they didn't stop him so where you got that analysis from I will never know, the guy could take a punch, he might have went down, put he got up and did the job.

By 98 when he fought Wayne he had already started to change with the american money and his brothers ever increasing influence taking a hold of him. His focus was fading and he didn't care about the sport anymore, the guy had millions in the bank and forgot all about what was important.

Lewis is a guy I cannot knock as he went after the guys who had beaten him. The guy was class and had a heart, and never ducked anyone. He is was also involved in the last great heavyweight fight against Vitali, a fight I believe he was beginning to dominate.

But you know as well as I do T.K.O, opinions are like a**holes.

So its coincidence that just as Nas stepped up against better opposition his eye wasn't on the ball.... give me a break.

I've only ever watched the Naz V Macullough once and that was live on TV, I do remember Naz being able to walk through Waynes shots but also remember the much smaller powerless (at the weight) giving Hamed more than a good examination.

Yeah sure Lewis got his revenage against certain guys but timing for him was just perfect.

Hangballlouie

T-K-O wrote: »

So its coincidence that just as Nas stepped up against better opposition his eye wasn't on the ball.... give me a break.

I've only ever watched the Naz V Macullough once and that was live on TV, I do remember Naz being able to walk through Waynes shots but also remember the much smaller powerless (at the weight) giving Hamed more than a good examination.

Yeah sure Lewis got his revenage against certain guys but timing for him was just perfect.

Yeah thats exactly was it was, a coincidence.
Look it is very simple, everyone can see that when he went to America he changed. The money he was getting was incredible and it changed him. He lost focus, even Manny has said so when asked about him. He didn't train that great for MAB but he still lasted the distance.
Over rated, no, misguided, yes.

The timing for Lewis was just perfect, that makes no sense whatsoever. I can't even get my head around that awful comment.

T-K-O

hangballlouie wrote: »

Yeah thats exactly was it was, a coincidence.
Look it is very simple, everyone can see that when he went to America he changed. The money he was getting was incredible and it changed him. He lost focus, even Manny has said so when asked about him. He didn't train that great for MAB but he still lasted the distance.
Over rated, no, misguided, yes.

The timing for Lewis was just perfect, that makes no sense whatsoever. I can't even get my head around that awful comment.

He lost to Rahmen and McCall two bums - he beat a washed up Tyson. The HW division has not been competitive in years - the timing was perfect for Lewis to rule - his opposition wasn't that good simple as that.

The Vitali fight was a huge challenge and a close fight - he should have given him the rematch but he didnt and the rest is history.

Lewis was good but ultimately over rated.

eagle eye

T-K-O wrote: »

He lost to Rahmen and McCall two bums - he beat a washed up Tyson. The HW division has not been competitive in years - the timing was perfect for Lewis to rule - his opposition wasn't that good simple as that.

The Vitali fight was a huge challenge and a close fight - he should have given him the rematch but he didnt and the rest is history.

Lewis was good but ultimately over rated.

Now come on, you say that he fought everybody at the right time. Lennox was 38 when he fought Vitali and would have been 39 by the time a rematch took place, so on one hand you say he timing was perfect but on the other you say that at 38/39 he should have went on and fought Vitali again.
In fairness the man retired after that fight and has never been tempted back into the ring.
Its also fair to note that Tyson was never available to him previous to the time he fought him.
Lewis wanted all the big boys during his career, its amazing the way you mention Tyson but don't mention Bowe who ducked Lewis. Lewis never ducked anybody. He even fought Tua and Grant.

I've mentioned above that imo Grant was hugely overrated but he was unbeaten when he faced Lewis and none of the other big names wanted to fight him. He beat Golota just before he faced Lewis. Lewis got in the ring to fight Golota as well, that win was marred of course by Golota turning up late.
David Tua was another of the promising fighters that Lewis faced.

The most important factor is that he ducked nobody and while he lost twice he avenged both defeats.
I personally think that Lennox Lewis is underrated by a lot of people.

T-K-O

Well the age with Lewis is not that simple - I'm sure you would agree he matured into a better fighter as he got older. I honestly thought Vitali would have been his crowning glory but winning on cuts left a sour taste and denying him the rematch after saying he would was disappointing.

Again Lewis was a good HW but IMO he will always be over rated.

Big Ears

T-K-O wrote: »

Again Lewis was a good HW but IMO he will always be over rated.

Well with wins over Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Vitali Klitschko, Tommy Morrison, Tony Tucker, David Tua, Michael Grant, Shannon Briggs, Ray Mercer, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Frank Bruno, Andrew Golota, Zelijko Mavrovic, Henry Akinwande, Razor Ruddock, Francois Botha and Gary Mason that can tend to happen :rolleyes:

He's also got a dominant win over Bowe in the amateurs which is why Bowe ducked him.

Underated if anything imo.

T-K-O

Big Ears wrote: »

Well with wins over Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Vitali Klitschko, Tommy Morrison, Tony Tucker, David Tua, Michael Grant, Shannon Briggs, Ray Mercer, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Frank Bruno, Andrew Golota, Zelijko Mavrovic, Henry Akinwande, Razor Ruddock, Francois Botha and Gary Mason that can tend to happen :rolleyes:

He's also got a dominant win over Bowe in the amateurs which is why Bowe ducked him.

Underated if anything imo.

...and I have mine

Big Ears

T-K-O wrote: »

...and I have mine

Which is fair enough, you're certainly not the only one to have that opinion infact on this forum i'd reckon about 50% of the people here would have it.

All I'm saying is I strongly, strongly disagree.

T-K-O

Well opinions on fighters can vary as you well know. Lewis was good just not that good.

Daroxtar

I'd put PBF and RJJ on the list. There is no denying their talents and they beat some of the best in their divisions but floyd ran scared/is still running from cotto and jones dodged dariusz micalczewski. They may be remembered as all time legends but they were/are afraid of the one person who could test them at their peak so they are both rated at least one notch higher than they deserve.

eagle eye

Daroxtar wrote: »

I'd put PBF and RJJ on the list. There is no denying their talents and they beat some of the best in their divisions but floyd ran scared/is still running from cotto and jones dodged dariusz micalczewski. They may be remembered as all time legends but they were/are afraid of the one person who could test them at their peak so they are both rated at least one notch higher than they deserve.

Are you for real? You are saying that arguably two of the best pound for pound boxers in history are overrated?

T-K-O

Jones is an amazing fighter , I'm not so sure about him being overrated.

PBF is over rated as far as the welter weight division goes - but he was pretty dominant at the lower weights.

mrak

Surprised nobody mentioned Tyson. He built his rep by mopping up one of the worst heavyweight divisions of all time, but once Douglas unlocked him that was it..

T-K-O

mrak wrote: »

Surprised nobody mentioned Tyson. He built his rep by mopping up one of the worst heavyweight divisions of all time, but once Douglas unlocked him that was it..

He more than mopped up - he destroyed all in front of him, until he destroyed himself

mrak

T-K-O wrote: »

He more than mopped up - he destroyed all in front of him, until he destroyed himself

Agreed that at the time it was very exciting, but were any of them top fighters at their prime? No.

Many people said that there was a general fear of hitting the guy. You could argue that once the superhero myth was jabbed away by Douglas fighters in general lost their fear of hitting him and from then on his record is pretty average. Did he self-destruct? Yeah. Was he ever as good as the hype? Maybe not.

T-K-O

mrak wrote: »

Agreed that at the time it was very exciting, but were any of them top fighters at their prime? No.

Many people said that there was a general fear of hitting the guy. You could argue that once the superhero myth was jabbed away by Douglas fighters in general lost their fear of hitting him and from then on his record is pretty average. Did he self-destruct? Yeah. Was he ever as good as the hype? Maybe not.

Pick 10 HW champions and I will argue that point with 9 of them... but no one clean out the division like a prime Tyson.

Daroxtar

eagle eye wrote: »

Are you for real? You are saying that arguably two of the best pound for pound boxers in history are overrated?

No, i'm not really that serious , they're all time great fighters but they could have really cemented their places further if they'd fought and beaten cotto and micalczweski. Both these guy were/are capable of beating RJJ/PBF and were avoided by them.