Catholic Wedding Requirements

MoonDancer256

Hi guys,

I'm currently starting the early stages of planning my wedding to my fiancé, and have come across the first stumbling block (one we knew was liable to be an issue sadly). He's Catholic, albeit not particularly observant as we've been living in France until recently and he doesnt speak much of the language. I, on the other hand am not Catholic - I'm not even Christian at all, more Pagan beliefs than anything. He's cool with it but we haven't raised the matter with his family (I think they assume I'm CofE), so he doesn't want to ask them about this issue.

We've discussed how we want to do the ceremony a few times, and as he always seemed pretty keen on getting married in a Catholic church, I said I would be okay with it as long as I wasn't having the religion forced on me.

I've only been to one Catholic wedding (his brother's) and it felt like there was a lot of "sin sin sin forgiveness sin" going on in all the talking from the priest, which just depressed me Apparently a lot of the actual content of the service is adjustable though?

So, anyway, we established that it shouldn't be necessary for my to convert, only that he would have to promise to raise his kids Catholic - a promise that I apparently would not have to make as I don't wish to. Not that I have a particular objection to it, I would just prefer my kids to have a broader religious education than I was given. I've read/heard a few other things though, like, that couples in our situation have to do some kind of Catholic pre marriage counselling sessions/weekends? Is this compulsory? It's not something I (or my fiancé actually) want to do. We've been a couple for 7 years, so I don't think we need to spend counselling sessions examining our relationship, particularly in a religious context.

Any other particular vows we would have to make that might be a problem for a non-Catholic?

I also read something about getting letters from each Parish to say you are free to get married; I assume that only refers to the Catholic in the relationship?

If anyone can fill me in with a bit more info on Catholic wedding requirements, I'd appreciate it.

Phototoxin

So, anyway, we established that it shouldn't be necessary for my to convert, only that he would have to promise to raise his kids Catholic - a promise that I apparently would not have to make as I don't wish to. Not that I have a particular objection to it, I would just prefer my kids to have a broader religious education than I was given. I've read/heard a few other things though, like, that couples in our situation have to do some kind of Catholic pre marriage counselling sessions/weekends? Is this compulsory? It's not something I (or my fiancé actually) want to do. We've been a couple for 7 years, so I don't think we need to spend counselling sessions examining our relationship, particularly in a religious context.

Well its easier to get out of raising your kids as catholics if you are both catholic - no promise must be made at all (other than a vage notion to 'endevour' to raise the kids)

You must go through marraige councelling. Also its best to be honest.
The question will probably be asked how are you ready to get married when you have supposedly very different world views.

MoonDancer256

Phototoxin wrote: »

The question will probably be asked how are you ready to get married when you have supposedly very different world views.

Well we don't, really. He's not particularly rabid about his religion - certainly not extremist - and I don't mind one way or the other what he believes in. We have similar moral values, and similar opinions on most subjects with the exception of politics and religion; I've never held Christian beliefs, and I'm more conservative than he is

That certainly doesn't cause any problems as far as our relationship goes though, and it would annoy both of us a lot to have someone thinking they're more qualified to make judgements on our relationship than we are. When I heard about the counselling thing I was immediately not keen on the idea, and was equally sure that my fiancé would be of the same opinion (which he is, when I discussed it with him).

So this does tend to be compulsory in Ireland? Or does it vary between parish?

nesf

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

I've only been to one Catholic wedding (his brother's) and it felt like there was a lot of "sin sin sin forgiveness sin" going on in all the talking from the priest, which just depressed me Apparently a lot of the actual content of the service is adjustable though?

It's adjustable within reason, you can't replace scripture with non-scripture though.

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

I've read/heard a few other things though, like, that couples in our situation have to do some kind of Catholic pre marriage counselling sessions/weekends? Is this compulsory? It's not something I (or my fiancé actually) want to do. We've been a couple for 7 years, so I don't think we need to spend counselling sessions examining our relationship, particularly in a religious context.

Yeah you have to, my wife and I had to do it. Boring and pointless but compulsory nonetheless. You also have to pay for the privilege.

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

I also read something about getting letters from each Parish to say you are free to get married; I assume that only refers to the Catholic in the relationship?

Yeah, you have to do this. It's to prevent bigamy essentially. Complicated and problematic if you've lived abroad or in other parishes and are not well known in your own one.

It's probably a good idea to ask about this on the Weddings and Marriage forum

MoonDancer256

nesf wrote: »

Complicated and problematic if you've lived abroad or in other parishes

That'll be fun... we've lived in France for the last 4 years, and he hasn't been going regularly to a specific church, at least partially because he doesn't speak much French He'll have fun trying to request stuff from a parish there when he can't write the letter haha

nesf wrote: »

It's probably a good idea to ask about this on the Weddings and Marriage forum

I considered that first, but figured since this was specifically related to Catholic questions (not any other religion) it would fit here well enough.

PDN

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

it would annoy both of us a lot to have someone thinking they're more qualified to make judgements on our relationship than we are. When I heard about the counselling thing I was immediately not keen on the idea, and was equally sure that my fiancé would be of the same opinion (which he is, when I discussed it with him).

Here's your problem: your fiance, as a Catholic requesting a Catholic wedding, is affirming his submission to the Church and acknowledging its authority to make judgements on your relationship.

I'm not a Catholic myself, but I don't get why people want a Catholic wedding when they want to reject everything that a Catholic wedding stands for.

--amadeus--

I've got to say I'm with PDN on this.

You oppose the catholic church. You refuse to consider raising your children in thier faith (which is why they sanction a marriage in thier church). You object to thier rules and regulations. You don't even like the ceremony!

So why on earth do you want to go through with a catholic wedding? At the risk of sounding romantic it is supposed to be your day so why have the central part so opposed to everything you like / believe on. And if it's for the sake of his family then thats a pretty rubbish reason, TBH.

MoonDancer256

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So why on earth do you want to go through with a catholic wedding?

Because that's what he wants, apparently. I don't want to force him into a civil / non denominational wedding when he's set on a Catholic wedding. If I can find a way to have the Catholic wedding without making me miserable, then I will for him.

On the other hand, I have to wonder if he wants the Catholic wedding just because that's what his family expect of him and how he was raised, and less because he actually wants it himself, given some of his decidedly uncatholic behaviour (for example, we've been living together for 5 years now, unmarried).

On the topic of the children though; I don't object to him raising them as Catholic if he wanted to; that is, if he wants to take kids to church I have no objection. I just don't want to promise it myself, because if/when my child expresses interest in what my beliefs are and why I never go to church with them, I intend to explain it to them, and allow them the choice of their religion, not just raise them in X religion and expect them to blindly accept it, as my fiancé's family did (and, to a certain extent, my own, as I was christened and raised Methodist). If my child then decided they wanted to be Catholic, I would certainly support that.

Despite the fact that my family are Methodist (albeit not particularly devout these days) they don't mind that I don't consider myself Christian anymore, they don't care what type of wedding I have, and they don't care whether I choose to christen my children or not; unfortunately I think my fiancés family will care and that will affect his decisions somewhat.

Thanks for the answers anyway, I guess I need to have another chat with the fiancé and perhaps the local priest to see what to do.

edanto

hiya Moondancer - can I ask did you ever have that chat with the local priest and how did it go?

MoonDancer256

We did indeed

We haven't got it all worked out yet, but basically the priest seems to think it's fine that I'm against baptism, as long as I'm not against the child being raised "in a christian manner". Which I'm not, as long as that's what the child chooses ^^

Counselling is non-negotiable though...

gar32

Very good Thread thanks,

I am starting to be in same place in that my GF of 3 years is Catolic and if we get married she wants it to be in the chruch. Also she wants any children brought up as same. I have the problem that I am not sure about god but I am sure the the world would be better if people did not go around saying my God is better then your God etc,war, bombs, blindly following idea's from many years ago. Seem like you are saying it can be done in a Catolic chruch (Marriage) even if I do not believe?

To make things more interesting it would be in Poland if we married. hhhmm

MoonDancer256

gar32 wrote: »

Seem like you are saying it can be done in a Catolic chruch (Marriage) even if I do not believe?

Definitely. I don't believe in Catholicism at all, but I chatted to his priest and he's fine with us getting married because I'm still pretty open minded. I've said I don't mind my fiance taking any kids to church, and educating them, I just don't want them to be promised to the religion (christened/baptised) until they're old enough to make that choice for themselves.

I was christened myself, and raised as a christian, but by the time I was in secondary school I'd realised I didn't believe in anything I'd been taught. I particularly disliked the overall misogynism in the religion, and the attitude that only Christianity was the right religion, and everyone else was wrong. Thankfully my parents were never overly religious so they didn't mind my choice, and I made it clear to my fiancé's priest that I just dislike indoctrination - despite my personal dislike of Christianity, I dont mind what religion any children choose, as long as its an educated choice and not just what they're forced to do.

My fiancé of course wants to christen them, but he's willing to back down on that point since it's one of the few things I feel strongly enough about to insist on.

Splendour

gar32 wrote: »

Seem like you are saying it can be done in a Catolic chruch (Marriage) even if I do not believe?

My daughter doesn't believe in God at all, her fiance was brought up Catholic but does not practice and they are getting married in a Catholic church. I can never understand why people want to do this when they are not willing to abide by Catholicism. Nor can I understand why priests marry couples like this.

MoonDancer256

Splendour wrote: »

My daughter doesn't believe in God at all, her fiance was brought up Catholic but does not practice and they are getting married in a Catholic church. I can never understand why people want to do this when they are not willing to abide by Catholicism. Nor can I understand why priests marry couples like this.

Well just because they aren't practising doesn't mean they don't believe, and want to have the Catholic church approve their marriage and all that. Being a "non-believer" I don't really grasp the idea of a church wedding at all, but if the Catholic party of a relationship wants a Catholic wedding, and the other partner is open minded, there's no reason for a priest NOT to marry them.

In my own situation, had the priest refused to marry us, I would have been pretty happy (civil wedding at the reception venue = MUCH easier, and cheaper due to lack of need for buses etc.) but my fiancé would have been upset, and I think would have been inclined to have the attitude of "if they won't marry us, screw them" and move away from the Catholic church (which is what happened with my Dad, who subsequently converted to be a Methodist). Luckily for him I guess, the priest agreed that he'll marry us :pac:

edanto

Can I ask if the priest had agreed to give you both the Catholic matrimonial sacrament or has it come up in conversation?

Apparently, I might not be eligible to get that sacrament given the fact that I don't subscribe to the Catholic church at all, but my bride to be feels that it's important that we get that sacrament. Just wondering if you've crossed that bridge?

Thanks for the update on your own progress, it's helpful to hear from someone that's a few months ahead of us.

I'm a bit nervous about meeting the priest, 'cos he's probably going to probe my belief system and I'm not gonna lie to him... I guess I'm just nervous that maybe my answers will upset him a bit.

homer911

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

I dont mind what religion any children choose, as long as its an educated choice and not just what they're forced to do.

You should be prepared to give any children a chance and give them that education. Children are dependent on their parents to lead them to their own faith - you cant talk about them making an educated choice if you dont give them the opportunity to learn.

I do agree however that there is too much cultural christianity in this world, but cutting yourself off from this is hardly a solution either.

MoonDancer256

edanto wrote: »

Can I ask if the priest had agreed to give you both the Catholic matrimonial sacrament or has it come up in conversation?

Not sure what you mean with this, since I haven't been a Christian for a looooong time. You mean the communion part of the wedding ceremony? We're opting out of that, given that I'm not christian and nor is a good 50% or more of the wedding guests. We're going with the shortest most straight forward version of the ceremony, I don't have details organised yet since it's still fairly early planning stages for us.

homer911 wrote: »

You should be prepared to give any children a chance and give them that education. Children are dependent on their parents to lead them to their own faith - you cant talk about them making an educated choice if you dont give them the opportunity to learn.

Not sure what you mean here. The priest is okay with us getting married because I'm open to the idea of education; that is to say, my fiancé will teach any kids about Catholicism, and take them to church.

The other side of the coin is that if they want to know why I don't go to church, and what I believe in, I will educate them on that as well, and arrange education for any other religion they express interest in, if I'm not qualified to answer their questions (for example, if the child was interested in being a Buddhist, I wouldn't have a clue).

Education = good, indoctrination in one religion = bad.

Splendour

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

Well just because they aren't practising doesn't mean they don't believe, and want to have the Catholic church approve their marriage and all that. Being a "non-believer" I don't really grasp the idea of a church wedding at all, but if the Catholic party of a relationship wants a Catholic wedding, and the other partner is open minded, there's no reason for a priest NOT to marry them.

In my own situation, had the priest refused to marry us, I would have been pretty happy (civil wedding at the reception venue = MUCH easier, and cheaper due to lack of need for buses etc.) but my fiancé would have been upset, and I think would have been inclined to have the attitude of "if they won't marry us, screw them" and move away from the Catholic church (which is what happened with my Dad, who subsequently converted to be a Methodist). Luckily for him I guess, the priest agreed that he'll marry us :pac:

Actually, it's my daughter who wants the church wedding-not her fiance! He would be quite happy having a registry office affair.
At least in your case your husband to be has said he will raise any children you may have as Catholic wheras in my daughter's case there's no way they'll attend mass if they have kids. No doubt though any children to be will be baptised/make their communion/be confirmed...

MoonDancer256

Splendour wrote: »

Actually, it's my daughter who wants the church wedding-not her fiance! He would be quite happy having a registry office affair.
At least in your case your husband to be has said he will raise any children you may have as Catholic wheras in my daughter's case there's no way they'll attend mass if they have kids. No doubt though any children to be will be baptised/make their communion/be confirmed...

Yeah I don't understand that at all. The only appeal of a big church wedding for me is the tradition, and because I have a big designer dress with a train that's a couple of metres long, so having a big fancy venue (a catholic church) is nice. On the other hand, if my fiancé wasn't religious, we would be doing civil, regardless of the appeal of a pretty church as the venue.

edanto

re the matrimonial sacrament

I'm not sure what's involved in it myself, but I think I'll find out once I have a chat with a priest. What I've heard is that the sacrament can only be shared by two catholics, so I'm assuming that I won't be involved in it. But apparently it would be important to part of the family that I was. We'll see!