Pure bred only please

time lord

I need to rant. People who want a dog and only consider pure breds make me puke.

A huge ammount of young familys seek out pure breds for pets. Trends happen like a local one where one year there are dozens of king Charles puppies being walked and then next year its Bishons. The bigger the housing estate and the more kids it has the more traditional fighting dog breeds there will be. "he is only a family pet, he never did this before, I didn't know he needed a muzzle, I didnt know my daughter was too young to walk it etc etc.

Particular breeds are too inbred or have genetic problems that hurt dogs. This problem is getting bigger. When you give this advice to someone looking they often shrug their shoulders and say " I know but they are so cute" I remind them that a mongrel has a much better chance of still being around for their darling's confifmation but to no avail. They feed the pockets of the puppy farms.

A lot of people who want dogs are idiots (not all). Some people are idiots and breed dogs (not all).

Rant nearly over.

Some breeds need help fast. I'd like to be left in a room with the first judge or breeder who thought a German Shepard looked better with a sloping back or thought a doberman needs stay upright ears. Some purebred breeds are only averaging 7 years life expectancy.

But they are so cute!!!!!!

Grim.

time lord wrote: »

I need to rant. People who want a dog and only consider pure breds make me puke.

fair enough thats your opinion
but its my choice what i want to buy or rescue i have a purebred cocker spaniel and im very happy with him and his very happy with me and my family

I remind them that a mongrel has a much better chance of still being around for their darling's confifmation but to no avail.

not as true as it once was alot of mongrels have inherited the flaws and illness that once only affected purebreds

but i agree that something will have to be done to save a lot of dog breeds as inbreeding for shows and puppy farms will end up severely damaging the future of the species as a hole

EGAR

This is one of my pet hates as the modern dog breeder who wants and needs to do his job right must know ALOT about genetics, health screening, hereditary diseases in his or her chose breed etc. Line and show breeding has IMHO ruined alot of perfectly good breed such as the GSD and the Rough Collie for example. The ears of a Doberman are naturally floppy, ear cropping has been banned in most European countries and I've never seen a cropped Dobie in Ireland although I did have a few staffies in with badly gone wrong DIY butcher jobs.

There is a very goos article online for quite some time re a genetic cul de sac which our purebred dogs face: http://www.angelfire.com/biz4/MastiffBreeder/cul-de-sac.html - quite technical but well worth a read.

At the end of the day its demand and supply. And as long as the law re puppy farms and dog breeding isn't changed nothing WILL change. And you can try to educate peeps until you are blue in the face. If its cute and/or starred in a Hollywood movie - they will buy it.

ISDW

EGAR wrote: »

The ears of a Doberman are naturally floppy, ear cropping has been banned in most European countries and I've never seen a cropped Dobie in Ireland although I did have a few staffies in with badly gone wrong DIY butcher jobs.

I saw my first one at the dog show in Dublin on St Patricks day. I don't know if it was being shown or just there as a guest, but as the IKC were being very strict about only letting show dogs in, I guess it was being shown. The natural floppy ears look so much nicer I think.

Sigma Force

Totally get what you're saying OP, not to tar everyone that has a pb with the same brush though there are a very obvious section of the dog owning public that are like as you described and also a lot of very bad breeders who are just in it for the money and some breeds are especially suffering now because of the way they are being bred. As seen with Crufts etc. this is all being looked in to and it looks like people are becoming more aware of it.
There'll always be a section of people who wouldn't care if a dog was injected with pink dye as long as they could have a pink dog (ok that's not done but if it were people would want it).

The public just needs to become more aware of what to look out for if they go down the route of a pb dog, the amount of people that don't even go to see the breeder and just meet somewhere or the breeder calls with the animal is ridiculous. So many people are having the wool pulled over their eyes but it's their own fault in most cases because they just haven't done their research.

time lord

Grim. wrote: »

fair enough thats your opinion
but its my choice what i want to buy or rescue i have a purebred cocker spaniel and im very happy with him and his very happy with me and my family



not as true as it once was alot of mongrels have inherited the flaws and illness that once only affected purebreds

but i agree that something will have to be done to save a lot of dog breeds as inbreeding for shows and puppy farms will end up severely damaging the future of the species as a hole

God fobid I'd mess with your choice. You go girl prove me wrong. Smoke 40 a day aswell prove everybody wrong. Ive known 6 cockers and two were psycho and one died from cancer from those oh so cute ears.

Boundless energy dogs whoes everday role is to what? Hunt, run miles swim, retreive no? Sure why would it do what its bred for. Put it in front of the fire and rest your feet on it. Its like owning a sports car and not letting it out of second gear.

Daily walks are an insult to working dog breeds. Would you buy a bike and not cycle it? Own a computer and not turn it on? Have a dvd player and no discs? Own a working/gun dog and have it as a pet never to be used.

They have an amazing tracking and flushing ability.
Its paws are brill for fresh water swimming and retreiving.
Its inner lip is so designed to carry back game without piercing.
This breed in Ireland has in the past suffered greatly from bad breeding. In the 80's every second one was a nutcase. Things have improved somewhat but a lot of familys that had one before washed there hands of the breed.

EGAR

Whilst I was more than sypathetic with your OP and was more than willing to discuss this burning issue in a civilised manner with you and others, your 2. post has disqualified you as a serious discussion partner for me. Personal attacks and half-baked statements re a quite diverse breed, which has ceased to be solely a working breed a long time ago, shows that you are not interested in any opinion but your own. Good luck with this thread, I am bowing out.

Grim.

EGAR wrote: »

Whilst I was more than sypathetic with your OP and was more than willing to discuss this burning issue in a civilised manner with you and others, your 2. post has disqualified you as a serious discussion partner for me. Personal attacks and half-baked statements re a quite diverse breed, which has ceased to be solely a working breed a long time ago, shows that you are not interested in any opinion but your own. Good luck with this thread, I am bowing out.

QFT EGAR well said

and good luck to op with getting your head out of your arse quite a common condition on boards it seems

miss no stars

time lord wrote: »

They have an amazing tracking and flushing ability.
Its paws are brill for fresh water swimming and retreiving.
Its inner lip is so designed to carry back game without piercing.
This breed in Ireland has in the past suffered greatly from bad breeding. In the 80's every second one was a nutcase. Things have improved somewhat but a lot of familys that had one before washed there hands of the breed.

You've some f*cking cheek to imply that I (seeing as what you're effectively doing is tarring all owners of working breeds with the same brush) do not care for my dog :mad:

I've a lab-retreiver. He gets regular swims at the beach, he has little jobs he does around the house, he plays fetch (aka, take the toy and not give it back), he takes us by the hand to show us what he wants (using thouse inner lips you're talking about!), he guards the house and the washing on the line, he gets walked in areas where he can go off the lead and forrage around in the undergrowth and ya know what, he's a damned healthy and happy dog.

How dare you.

Hellrazer

Right firstly youve just insulted someone who I personally have a great respect for.
Egar does so much in this country for animal rescue and you barge in here with idiotic statements like this one.

While I agree that some breeds are being overbred and there are genetic problems there are other breeds where responsible breeding has not caused this.

Secondly personal attacks on anyone in this forum will get you banned permanently.

And thirdly--I dont like it when a regular user states that theyre bowing out of a thread because they feel that they have been personally attacked or because they feel that someones opinions are being rammed down their throat.

So what Im saying is this :

Consider this your first and only warning.I will not have users shoving opinions down others throats and I will not stand for personal attacks on other users.
If you want to discuss the issue in a civilised manner then by all means do so.If you want to discuss them in the manner youve already started the thread in then find another forum to post in.

Richie.

time lord wrote: »

God fobid I'd mess with your choice. You go girl prove me wrong. Smoke 40 a day aswell prove everybody wrong. Ive known 6 cockers and two were psycho and one died from cancer from those oh so cute ears.

Boundless energy dogs whoes everday role is to what? Hunt, run miles swim, retreive no? Sure why would it do what its bred for. Put it in front of the fire and rest your feet on it. Its like owning a sports car and not letting it out of second gear.

Daily walks are an insult to working dog breeds. Would you buy a bike and not cycle it? Own a computer and not turn it on? Have a dvd player and no discs? Own a working/gun dog and have it as a pet never to be used.

They have an amazing tracking and flushing ability.
Its paws are brill for fresh water swimming and retreiving.
Its inner lip is so designed to carry back game without piercing.
This breed in Ireland has in the past suffered greatly from bad breeding. In the 80's every second one was a nutcase. Things have improved somewhat but a lot of familys that had one before washed there hands of the breed.

tman

time lord wrote: »

I need to rant. People who want a dog and only consider pure breds make me puke.

Heh, as soon as I saw the thread title I thought pretty much the exact same thing, I though this was going to be a post by some uppity purebred owner...
Dogs in every shape and form are fantastic creatures, I really don't see the need to limit yourself to purebreds. My last dog was the most affectionate, fun, loveable dog that I've ever had the pleasure of spending time with, and I wouldn't be able to count the number of breeds in him on one hand!

getz

time lord wrote: »

I need to rant. People who want a dog and only consider pure breds make me puke.

A huge ammount of young familys seek out pure breds for pets. Trends happen like a local one where one year there are dozens of king Charles puppies being walked and then next year its Bishons. The bigger the housing estate and the more kids it has the more traditional fighting dog breeds there will be. "he is only a family pet, he never did this before, I didn't know he needed a muzzle, I didnt know my daughter was too young to walk it etc etc.

Particular breeds are too inbred or have genetic problems that hurt dogs. This problem is getting bigger. When you give this advice to someone looking they often shrug their shoulders and say " I know but they are so cute" I remind them that a mongrel has a much better chance of still being around for their darling's confifmation but to no avail. They feed the pockets of the puppy farms.

A lot of people who want dogs are idiots (not all). Some people are idiots and breed dogs (not all).

Rant nearly over.

Some breeds need help fast. I'd like to be left in a room with the first judge or breeder who thought a German Shepard looked better with a sloping back or thought a doberman needs stay upright ears. Some purebred breeds are only averaging 7 years life expectancy.

But they are so cute!!!!!!

certain breeds of dog always get bad press -like bulldogs ect-but lets look a little closer at the bigger pitcher- dog that people may use -police dogs,dogs used for the blind ,[backlegs go at an early age ]racing greyhounds,killed as soon as they are no good for racing,the same goes for the hunting dogs,horses bred for racing,you never see anyone moan about them, the gambling lobby are too powerfull, then we can move on to food animals to big to walk,cows,pigs sheep;best thing to do is to except the fact you cannot win and get on with your own life

andreac

ISDW wrote: »

I saw my first one at the dog show in Dublin on St Patricks day. I don't know if it was being shown or just there as a guest, but as the IKC were being very strict about only letting show dogs in, I guess it was being shown. The natural floppy ears look so much nicer I think.

Dogs with cropped ears are not allowed to be shown at championship shows, only International Champ shows. Those dogs with cropped ears would have been imported.

star-pants

Ok - OP you need to get off your high horse.
I have two pure bred Lhasa Apsos (my choice). Why? because my mother's scared of dogs, we had a rescue Lhasa for 14years and she was the only one my mother connected with. We tried a golden cocker spaniel (purebred) and a yorkie (rescue), neither lasted long because they weren't compatible with our family.
So to save another dog from being taken into a home it can't stay in, I looked up purebred Lhasas & all is going great.

I wouldn't care what kind of dog I had, there's a beautiful 3 legged mongrel up at the DSPCA called Maggie & I'd have her in a heartbeat. I love all dogs. My aunt has a rottweiler and a king charles, both gorgeous & wonderful. We had to chose specific dogs due to my mother's fear and the amount of space we would have for a dog.
Lhasas temperments are very very sweet - they're so wonderful and docile (but will protect you and warn you of intruders) and I love them.

I have a friend who's got a mongrel - Indy, he's nearly 14yrs old himself, poor thing. No problems only old age. I'm not anally retentive about dogs, I like them all. But you can't start lashing out at people for wanting certain breeds they may have a connection with. Or breeds that best suit their home. With young children smaller breeds are possibly better, and if people have small back gardens some of the smaller breeds are ok with less exercise. I've another friend who has 3 golden labradors, all purebred, only one has an issue with her hips but she lives just fine, but they have a MASSIVE back garden & can care for them.

If you want to make a statement about inbred dogs and silly people - go ahead. But don't attack the people of this forum for standing up for their dogs & their choices.

time lord

Isnt it strange that the people that claim to love dogs and breeds are doing the most harm to them.

Choice language by some people. Must be allowed so.

A random choice of two counties in Éire probably put down as many dogs as the whole of Scotland but we all love our dogs don't we.

I suggest when you buy a pure breed buy two. Just to be sure one is alive when you get home.

star-pants

Are you contesting my love for dogs? Do you know me? no. you don't.

How am I harming my dogs? please - tell me exactly how.

time lord

Can contiued breeding in a given population be justified?

If a person claims they can answer this they are misinformed.

The gene pool in many breeds is too small to sustain healthy dogs.

When will people wake up. are they waiting for the average life span to stay in single figures?

star-pants

Depends on the breed.

Look at the Lion Man in new zealand, trying his best to breed some of the lions & tigers he has, does his best to get unrelated animals to mate & he's done wonders so far.

Cross breeding isn't the only option. That has it's own health risks too.

Tony H

time lord wrote: »

Isnt it strange that the people that claim to love dogs and breeds are doing the most harm to them.

Choice language by some people. Must be allowed so.

A random choice of two counties in Éire probably put down as many dogs as the whole of Scotland but we all love our dogs don't we.

I suggest when you buy a pure breed buy two. Just to be sure one is alive when you get home.

I wonder how many of those dogs that are "put down " as you say are pure bred dogs from good responsible breeders ? , and by responsible breeder I mean a breeder who vets the person buying the dog , who will make you give them the dog back if there are any problems with the dog that you cant handle , and will give you advice throughout the lifetime of the dog ,
I would hazard a guess that most of the dogs that are put down are cross breed dogs which are created by dogs who are not neutered, roaming the streets and owned by irresponsible people who get a dog and leave it free to roam the streets without any supervision , and until this is changed this will continue ,
Most people like myself who have a pure bred dog (Golden Retriever in my case) take great care of their dogs and treat them as part of the family and the dogs live long and happy lives ,
My last dog , another golden retriever lived until he was nearly 13 years old .
You probably had good intentions when you started this thread but you cant put the blame for all the dogs that are put down on people that buy pure breed dogs , this is a free country and everyones opinion is valid but you cant dictate as to which dog a person buys or rescues ,

PS the use of EIRE is usually used in the Irish language and not in the ENGLISH language .

time lord

fitzdragon wrote: »

I wonder how many of those dogs that are "put down " as you say are pure bred dogs from good responsible breeders ? , and by responsible breeder I mean a breeder who vets the person buying the dog , who will make you give them the dog back if there are any problems with the dog that you cant handle , and will give you advice throughout the lifetime of the dog ,
I would hazard a guess that most of the dogs that are put down are cross breed dogs which are created by dogs who are not neutered, roaming the streets and owned by irresponsible people who get a dog and leave it free to roam the streets without any supervision , and until this is changed this will continue ,
Most people like myself who have a pure bred dog (Golden Retriever in my case) take great care of their dogs and treat them as part of the family and the dogs live long and happy lives ,
My last dog , another golden retriever lived until he was nearly 13 years old .
You probably had good intentions when you started this thread but you cant put the blame for all the dogs that are put down on people that buy pure breed dogs , this is a free country and everyones opinion is valid but you cant dictate as to which dog a person buys or rescues ,

PS the use of EIRE is usually used in the Irish language and not in the ENGLISH language .

Side issue but check the constitution. The name of this country is Éire regardless of language.

I dont blame all dogs destroyed on people who buy pure breeds.

Having a good experience with a dog of any breed is not a vindication for bad breeding which is all too prevalant in Éire.

smurf32

Iv had dogs all my life cross and pure breed there all the same there just dogs...........
with pure breeds you know what your getting with a cross you have to know what your looking at, but with all the cross breedin at the min iv seen funny lookin dogs about.
line breeding can b a bit full on to some people but crossing dogs is just wrong!!!

the_syco

So... the truth has come out. You have a problem with bad breeding. Big difference between bad breeding, and pure-bred breeding.

I also have a problem with bad breeding, with the little f**ks getting a puppy for xmas, and 6 months later it's out walking the streets, and ends up in the pound. Or worse, it's bred to fight, and then the owner is surprised that it bites someone.

My westie is probably over 12 years old at this stage. Bit of a hip problem now and then, but still lively. Not sure if she's "pure bred", but she doesn't look like a mongrel.

LadyTBolt

OP - I understand your discontent with bad breeding and you have a right to rant but I don't think it is fair to be annoyed at people who only consider pure bred dogs. Before I continue, I have rescued 3 dogs and have 2 pure bred dogs.

Personally I agree with breeding/purchasing a pure bred dog BUT only for a specific purpose i.e. hunting dog, working dog, guide dogs, sniffer dogs etc.
I do not believe it is fair to breed dogs for the "Pet" market unless there is specific demand by interested persons. The pet market is overcrowded with unwanted wannabie pets that people paid alot of money for, thinking they were able to buy the perfect pet, hence so many dogs are neglected. I believe this is the cause of no controls in place by government controlling the number of dogs and breeders in the country.

I feel breeders have had it far too easy for far too long. Breeding dogs is a money spinner for alot of breeders. There is no legislation governing who can breed or be licensed to breed, how often a dog can breed, and there is no way of stopping or controlling the inter-breeding of dogs. I understand there are guidelines set out by the various breeds societies, kennel clubs etc. but there is no legislation. I also sometimes ask myself the question, 'are dog breeders paying income tax on the sale of their pups'?, there's one for you Minister Lenihan.

If dog breeders had to pay a license fee to breed dogs, declare all income on their dogs and follow specific breeding guidelines set out by government to control the inter-breeding of dogs there would be a lot less people breeding and therefore there would be a lot less neglected dogs. Persons found breeding should be fined heavily. This would deter people who have not neutered their dog from letting their dog mix with other dogs.

So, to sum it all up for you OP - rant as much as you like but a solution should and needs to be found to the problems associated with breeding purebreds and no matter how much we go on about it if the government isn't going to legislate the problem it will only continue. As individuals all we can do is choose a rescue dog when we want a pet and avoid purebreds unless required for a specific purpose.

Skillie

Have dogs all my life, usually mixed breed but have 2 pb's at the moment and i love them and they are happy healthy dogs with great lives who are better looked after than myself. they were very carefully chosen to match our lifestyle and the breeders we bought them from were very good responsible breeders who went above and beyond when it came to screening and taking care of he pups. I agree with the notion that dog breeding is a shambles and needs tighter regulation and control but i think as someone else said most dogs put down are as a result of bad owners. look at any of the rescue websites and see how many pb dogs are actually on there, most are crosses come about due to negligent ownership. I have no interest in showing my dogs or breeding from them etc i just want to match what i can offer as a responsible owner to what they need on a daily basis in their lives.

Lament bad owners, bad breeders and puppyfarms all you want; but don't you dare tell me i don't have the right to choose which dogs suits my lifestyle just because it is a purebred. when in truth by buying these dogs i know very closely what i'm getting and in turn i provide them with everything they need.

bubblewrap

My dog is a pure bred, does that make me an idiot?
They all need homes and he was bred responsibly, they were even going to show him but he only just missed out.

IMO the idiots are the Paris Hilton wannabes who carry their dogs in bags, THAT is cruel and pathetic.

cos!!

are cross bred dogs not the result of even more negligent owners than pure bred dogs?someone had a pure breed didnt bother to get them spayed or neutered, let them wander?crossed puppies...happens over a few generations?crossed pups are in a large quantity mistakes!while pure bred dogs are bred together to produce kc registered pups, which you know the temperment, exercise requirment, growth rate, size of the breed ect.fair enough there are some bad breeders but that isnt even your argument?

by the way i have a terrier cross we got from the pound!;) but would consider pure bred for my next dog?

Shivers26

This a subject very close to my heart. So many breeders are not health focused and that is what leads to problems in perfectly lovely breeds.

I have 2 Cavalier King Charles Spaniels of my own (both rescues) and I also have a foster Cavalier who will eventually be rehomed to a permanent home. Since I have been involved with the Cavalier Rescue I have learned so much about the breeds health and what is involved when breeding. I honestly dont think I could ever have a puppy again because I dont think there are any breeders in Ireland health focused enough when it comes to Cavs.

Have you seen Pedigree Dogs Exposed? I dont know how to do links but it was on BBC last August. If you google it you will find a link to watch the hour long programme. Shocking stuff.

Also, I dont think owning a purebred dog makes you a bad person or a bad pet owner. I do think it is important for buyers to be aware of the health issues of their preferred breed and find breeders that adhere to the necessary testing.

bubblewrap

I have seen that programme and it is heartbreaking but people like that give reputable breeders a bad name.

Just because someone wants a certain breed, it doesn't mean they will automatically go to some puppy farm unless they are an irresponsible owner, but then you have to think these poor dogs are being brought into the world with so many problems and if we all decided not to get them from these evil people, what would happen to the poor dogs?

It is celebrities that have made this worse IMO.

Skillie

Shivers26 wrote: »

Have you seen Pedigree Dogs Exposed? I dont know how to do links but it was on BBC last August. If you google it you will find a link to watch the hour long programme. Shocking stuff.

excellent show and made me feel ill the people on it were so infuriating esp the Ridgeback breeder lady (if you could call her that)

Discodog

Unfortunately it is often the self called responsible breeders that cause the problem. The woman exposed on the BBC for selling genetically damaged pups was welcome back at Crufts this year. The journalist who made the program also went to Crufts in disguise. Apparent she has some amazing covert footage where the Kennel Club admit that their proposed changes are just "window dressing" till the heat dies down.

It is the breeders as members of the Kennel Club that draw up the breed standard for each breed & it is these standards that cause the problem. So often I have met people who buy a pedigree dog & will go on about its lineage & show potential. They are not worried about genetic disoders. What matters is how much they can sell the pups for.

At the end of the day puppy farms would not exist if there wasn't a demand for (often cheaper) pure breed dogs. I know someone who bought a St Bernard pup from a seller who claimed to be the President of the Bernese Association. They paid a fortune as they wanted a good dog. The dog came with a wonderful pedigree & registration that were fake. The dog has massive health problems.

The pedigree industry is big business. Do your own sums & work out how much a year one can make with just one bitch. Any money making scheme will attract the wrong people.

I would love a Boxer. I have had three in the past but I could NEVER buy any dog, especially a pedigree dog whilst 25,000 dogs are being killed. So I have two rescues. There are lots of pure breeds in rescues so please try them first.