Fees coming back?

enda1

http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/okeeffe-to-end-free--thirdlevel-education-1679714.html

NEXT year will mark the end of free third-level education for tens of thousands of students, the Irish Independent can reveal.

Education Minister Batt O'Keeffe last night confirmed he would bring proposals to Cabinet within two weeks which would compel students to pay for their college education.

And students who hope to avoid the payment by enrolling this September will not escape, as they will have to pay from 2010.

The move will signal the end of the era of free college education which began with the abolition of tuition fees in the mid-1990s.

The plan is likely to create serious tensions within the Coalition and spark widespread demonstrations by students, who are vehemently opposed to fees, loans or a graduate tax.

Officials have presented Mr O'Keeffe with a series of options for the new student "contributions".

These range from the straightforward re-introduction of tuition fees to a scheme whereby graduates start paying for their study, in the form of a tax, once they reach a certain income threshold.

However, the Irish Independent has learned the working group favours a mixture of both these measures.

Students would be able to pay fees up-front at a discount or pay the cost, with interest, after they graduate and find work.

Students already in college this year will not be affected by the end of free fees. "I would view those students as having a contract with third-level institutes, and I wouldn't see those students being affected," the minister said last night.

Mr O'Keeffe first raised the spectre of a return to third-level fees last August.

Despite continuing opposition to any form of a return to college charges, Mr O'Keeffe last night argued there were many people in society who could well afford to pay fees or to make a contribution to their third-level education.

Substantial

"I feel it would be justified to ask those people who are earning quite substantial amounts of money to make a contribution and, in that way, I can do two things. I can, if it is appropriate, give further funding to the third-level sector itself, and certainly I can concentrate on a greater access programme in the disadvantaged areas, and hope we can increase significantly the participation rate at that level," he said.

However, the new student contribution is set to place the greatest burden on lower-middle income groups.

The Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) last night warned the worst affected would be the children of workers at, or just above, the income threshold for maintenance grants: bus drivers; waiters/waitresses; postal delivery staff; retail workers; lower ranks of civil servants; clerical workers and soldiers. The economic think-tank is investigating why so few students from this social group remain to take their Leaving Certificate and then go to college.

Dr Selina McCoy said that this non-manual group was particularly "debt adverse" and would be reluctant to take on huge debts by going to college.

Work done by ESRI researchers has shown increased participation by every other social group in college:

* Higher professionals such as doctors, lawyers, engineers -- increased to almost 100pc.
* Farmers -- up from 65pc to 89pc.
* Own-account workers, such as personnel managers and credit controllers -- up from 39pc to 65pc.
* Employers and managers, and lower professionals such as teachers, technicians -- remained around 65pc.
* Skilled manual workers such as bricklayers, plumbers, welders -- up from 32pc to 50pc.
* Semi-skilled and unskilled manual workers such as warehouse staff, caretakers, dry cleaners -- up from 22pc to 33pc.

But for the non-manual workers' category there was virtually no change, with participation rates moving from 24pc to only 27pc at a time of massive expansion in higher education.

Dr McCoy said the availability of maintenance grants was one factor affecting attendance at college. At present, to get a full maintenance grant of €3,420, the maximum income limit for a family of four children is €39,760 a year. For more than eight children, it is €47,430 a year.

The end of free third-level education will be bitterly opposed by Labour, which abolished fees in 1996, and students.

USI President Shane Kelly last night said: "We already have fees but we call them something else -- a registration charge, which is going up to €1,500 in September."

- John Walshe Education Editor

So one year of free fees for 2009 entrants then fees from there on.

Seems weird...

Anyone any idea what the level of fees will be? €15K/year or something?


Looks like this forum will become a very popular place soon, get ready mods!

4arc

here's a comparison of the cost to the government as i see it,

€200 on the dole x 52 weeks of the year = €10,400

"free" college fees = c. €3000 - €6000

this move will cost the government more in the social welfare bill when these people dont go to college and cant get employment.

better make sure you qualify for the grant! otherwise you're f**cked!

Flamed Diving

4arc wrote: »

better make sure you qualify for the grant! otherwise you won't able to afford that new Abercrombie & Finch hoodie, the latest iPhone and that J1 holiday this summer in San Diego. Oh, and you may have to take the bus to college instead of having a car.

Bummer...

lg123

4arc wrote: »

here's a comparison of the cost to the government as i see it,

€200 on the dole x 52 weeks of the year = €10,400

"free" college fees = c. €3000 - €6000

this move will cost the government more in the social welfare bill when these people dont go to college and cant get employment.

better make sure you qualify for the grant! otherwise you're f**cked!

people will still go to college, anyone who would not go to college because of the fees are probably the people who wouldn't graduate anyways.

i am all in favor of fees, as long as they are administered properly. as in something similar to the british 'loan' system. a few reasons for this are as follows, my reasons may seem hypocritical as i done my cert, dip, and degree with free fees and received the full grant throughout the 5 years.

in case people are not familiar the british system is done by a student loan company, i think its like a semi state body type thing, where the student gets a loan for each year and when they start working and earning above a certain threshold they repay the loan in pretty small amounts until its gone. as far as i am aware the student loan is interest free or very close to it.

firstly, there is no such thing as free. the fees at present are paid by the tax payer, every tax payer. why should, for instance, a plumber pay taxes towards third level fees when they went through an apprenticeship to gain their qualifications.

secondly, there are loads of people who go to college for one year of craic, take total advantage of the grant and fees system and have no intention of pursuing the course. i have seen this first hand in my first year at GMIT where ~24 of the 74 first year students got into the second year of the course. ok, some just weren't fit for the course but there were plenty who never even tried and partied their way through to Easter and dropped out. someone had to foot the bill for these jokers and it was the Irish tax payer. i dont want to come across as a dry sh!t, trust me i enjoyed my time in college but i was there to get the letters after my name.
if daddy or student loan debt had to be faced at the end of it all, this waste could be ruled out.

thirdly, the public finances are in a hoop, are free fees really a luxury we can still afford.