These new indicators are impossible to see?

Random

I think the one I seen today was a fairly new VW Golf.

Basically it's got a circular brakelight and in the middle of it it's got the flashing orange indicator. When driving along with lights on or when indicating while braking it seems dam near impossible to see the indicator.

Is it just me or are they very poorly designed lights?

Esel

I noticed that this morning, but didn't catch the make/model. I assumed they were badly-designed aftermarket lights. Either way, definitely dangerous!

tossy

The first one i noticed this on was the current shape passat,i found it a little odd myself.

On a similar note,those anyone think the height of the reverse light on a ford focus is a little low? it is down in the bumper on the opposite side of the fog light.

seanybiker

noticed the same a few days ago. Cant remember what kinda car it was though. Almost drove out in front of your man on a little roundybout

mc01a

i noticed that a while ago. on a passat, i just taught it was myself.

there are a lovely looking rear light, what you were saying, there are a cu*t to see.

D_murph

tossy wrote: »

On a similar note,those anyone think the height of the reverse light on a ford focus is a little low? it is down in the bumper on the opposite side of the fog light.

I agree. Theres only one and its down by the rear bumper reflector (on the drivers side IIRC) and last year I had a woman at work tell me I had no reversing lights because she couldnt see it come on when I was parkig at work due to its location.

No fault to her cos in fairness, if you are not looking at the rear of a Ford Focus (05-07 anyway from the correct angle, they are hard to see.

On my previous car (03 Fiesta), they were up high next to the brake lights where they should be.

_Kaiser_

I have a 06 Passat and agree that the rear indicators can be hard to see alright - especially if the rear lights/brake lights are on as well.
My older 02 Passat had a much better arrangement that way I think, as in the one below:

http://www.butler-motors.com/images/reviews/B5Passat/Passat-B5-8_Big.jpg

(indicators/reversing lights in the middle section)

It also had reversing lights on both sides too which the new model doesn't. Maybe it's just me, but single reversing lights on a car just look wrong - the one on the Focus is dangerously low though!

flazio

I've seen other cars that hide the reversing light below the bumper, VW Beetle, Seat Leon, Citroen C4 coupé edition and the MINI.
Car manufacturers would argue that their sole purpose is to light up the area behind the car at night but to me that's not a good argument, I reckon any manufacturer who insists in hiding reversing lights in this manor should be forced to install reverse beepers, then that might make them design the light clusters a bit better.

denat

Random wrote: »

I think the one I seen today was a fairly new VW Golf.

Basically it's got a circular brakelight and in the middle of it it's got the flashing orange indicator. When driving along with lights on or when indicating while braking it seems dam near impossible to see the indicator.

Is it just me or are they very poorly designed lights?

I agree. Bad design and dangerous - particularly if driver is one of those morons who brakes before indicating at junctions.

ninty9er

The Mk V Golf has a tiny indicator clustered between the rear lights and brake lights. Not a great design for practicality, I don't like the way on my own car the brake lights and rear lights are in one cluster on the bottom while the fog light is on top. I'm considering getting an autospark to change the wiring to put the brake on its own.

ninty9er

denat wrote: »

I agree. Bad design and dangerous - particularly if driver is one of those morons who brakes before indicating at junctions.

What idiot thought you how to drive....It's standard practice to brake before indicating.

Hal1

A good idea imo would be to have the rear window brake light as a 2way light in the rear window that changes to white while reversing. Being higher up it would be more visable to truck drivers.

B00MSTICK

99er wrote:

What idiot thought you how to drive....It's standard practice to brake before indicating.

Wouldn't call him an idiot.

I don't brake then indicate. I check my mirrors/blind spot, signal my intention, move into position, change gear/brake, make the turn when safe to do so.

If you brake first, then the indicating is like an after thought. If you signal first the driver behind you can assume you'll be braking soon and has some idea as to what you're about to do.

So its standard, Irish, bad practice.

OT: Harder to see than standard indicators alright

ninty9er

It's standard practice to check your mirrors, slow, position yourself on the road, then indicate. Slowing involves braking.

I wasn't calling him an idiot, just the person who thought him how to drive.

B00MSTICK

I know, I still wouldn't call the instructor an idiot though.

I disagree that you should slow before indicating. If you were changing lanes would you slow down, indicate and change lane or indicate first?

By indicating first you give those around you a clear indication of your intentions. By braking suddenly for no apparent reason the driver behind has no idea what you are doing. Its about consideration for those around you.

I believe you should have all the "fiddly" bits done ASAP so you can concentrate on making the manoeveur without having to remove your hand from the wheel.

Technically you can slow down by just changing gear.

I fail to see how the above method is "idiotic" or any less correct than the "standard" practice? I can only see advantages to it.

congo_90

I always thought there was some EU regulation on the height at which lights could be at? I've always felt that the reverse light on a Focus was too well hidden.
Personally I also thought the lights primary function was to warn other drivers of your intention hence brake lights, indicators etc...

On that note I like cars with simetrical reverse lights (one either side) and must be bright to see where (or what) i'm reversing into lol.

copacetic

the indicators on the golf and passat have come up a lot on the motors forum, this thread from 2 years ago was one..

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53064653#post53064653

Gwynston wrote: »

The rear light clusters on the new Passat are especially bad. The indicator is a small round blob in the middle of a red circle, so when someone is braking (or has headlights on at night) the red circle almost completely masks the orange indicator part, making it very hard to see.

I think they're LEDs too, which are usually brighter, but they seem quite dull on the Passat, especially during the day.

Funnily enough the same tread had mention of the low reverse light on ford focus also..

Matt Simis

Seen it on the Passat and Golf too, but not on my phat Passat! I also noticed the indicators on the Mazda CX7 are in the same assembly as the Fog lights, the fogs are very bright... Fine for the rest of Europe, but not here for obvious reasons.

Random

At least I'm not alone. I wish car makers would see these things .. they don't even look "cool" so I don't really see the point of them!

denat

ninty9er wrote: »

Slowing involves braking.

Wrong in fact, as slowing may involve easing on accelerator or downshifting gears. Advanced drivers (I'm not one) tend to use those techniques, where appropriate, rather than braking. Some would flash the brakelights while downchanging. I'm talking about slowing here, as in driving smoothly, obviously not making a final stop.

Esel

ninty9er wrote: »

What idiot thought you how to drive....It's standard practice to brake before indicating.

Standard practice for idiots, maybe....

ninty9er wrote: »

...Slowing involves braking.....

No, slowing may involve braking. Either way, I (and apparently the vast majority of Irish drivers, in my experience) always indicate before braking (if braking is needed). In fact, I usually consider ''brake first' drivers to be bad, inconsiderate drivers. Not in the same league as the driver in the outside lane at a red light who waits for green before indicating right, but close.

Chris Peak

denat wrote: »

Wrong in fact, as slowing may involve easing on accelerator or downshifting gears. Advanced drivers (I'm not one) tend to use those techniques, where appropriate, rather than braking. Some would flash the brakelights while downchanging. I'm talking about slowing here, as in driving smoothly, obviously not making a final stop.

That's not really true. When I did my advanced driving course in Hendon (shh).
Braking was the prefered way to slow down. Easing off the accelerator is ok, though.
Downshifting may be used when going down a particularly steep hill, or on icy roads; which is sometimes called 'engine braking'.
Brake pads are much cheaper to replace than gearboxes. And, are designed to do the job.

As someone posted earlier, it may be standard practice to slow down before indicating. But, it's safer and more considerate to indicate before slowing.

It also seems to be standard practice to pull into oncoming traffic if there's an obstruction on your side of the road. It's a bit surprising when the Gaurds do this on country roads (Like Glencree the other day...) forcing drivers to jam on the brakes so as not to hit the idiot.
But, that's a separate matter. :rolleyes:

Back to the OT Yes those crappy lights are hard to see and should be discontinued. I can't see how they could be banned as whether or not you can see an indicator, you're not allowed to bump into the backs of cars:p

Chris Peak

esel wrote: »

Not in the same league as the driver in the outside lane at a red light who waits for green before indicating right, but close.

Like on Harolds Cross Bridge (facing town).
And, only indicating to go down the canal when there are sufficient cars behind thinking he's going straight on.

Chris Peak

flazio wrote: »

Car manufacturers would argue that their sole purpose is to light up the area behind the car at night but to me that's not a good argument.

This isn't a real argument as the ROTR/ Highway Code state that a white light must face the direction of travel. It's not really for lighting up an area after dark.

Sorry for putting in so many posts one - after- another. I must learn how to multi-quote.

Esel

Multi-posting does help the postcount though! It's the icon beside 'Quote', btw. When you are ready to make your post, just click 'Post Reply'.

dudara

Glad to hear that I'm not alone with this problem. I had surgery last year for a detached retina, and even though I've made a good recovery, any oddness in my vision still makes me nervous. Those new indicators had me freaked for a while until I realised that it was the car and not me.

Chris Peak

esel wrote: »

Multi-posting does help the postcount though! It's the icon beside 'Quote', btw. When you are ready to make your post, just click 'Post Reply'.

Thanks for that.:D

dudara wrote: »

Those new indicators had me freaked for a while until I realised that it was the car and not me.

It threw me at first also.

Honey-ec

I'm forever saying that about Golfs - haven't noticed it as much on Passats, but maybe that's cause there's way more Golfs around. I actually have a Passat myself now, I must check that.

And I always indicate before braking.

crc

ninty9er wrote: »

It's standard practice to check your mirrors, slow, position yourself on the road, then indicate. Slowing involves braking.

I wasn't calling him an idiot, just the person who thought him how to drive.

And who the hell taught you how to spell?

In my view you should indicate as early as possible without being confusing. On the Cork South Ring Road, for example, there are so many drivers who indicate after they have turned on to a slip-road.

And another thing: what exactly is the problem some people have with the misuse of fog lights? The clue is in the name!

NewApproach

I did my driving test around 2 years ago, and was thought indicate then brake.

Dad said that he was always thought: Mirror, Signal, Maneuver...

When I need to slow down coming up to a junction I would stop accelerating/downshift as opposed to braking straight away if at all possible.

NewApproach

crc wrote: »

And another thing: what exactly is the problem some people have with the misuse of fog lights? The clue is in the name!

Don't even go there!!

Chris Peak

NewApproach wrote: »

I did my driving test around 2 years ago, and was thought indicate then brake.

Dad said that he was always thought: Mirror, Signal, Maneuver...

When I need to slow down coming up to a junction I would stop accelerating/downshift as opposed to braking straight away if at all possible.

It's best to brake gently in that situation. As it alerts drivers behind of your intention.
Downshift when necessary while still braking.

P.S your Dad is right

NewApproach

Chris Peak wrote: »

As it alerts drivers behind of your intention.

Surely thats what the indicator is for??

Esel

Indicator says " I plan to pull in or turn soon".

Brake light says "Very soon!"

Chris Peak

NewApproach wrote: »

Surely that's what the indicator is for??

OK then. The brake lights alert the driver behind to the fact you are slowing down or stopping. Better?

Hal1

Or to signal them to stop tailgating :pac:.

xabi

ninty9er wrote: »

What idiot thought you how to drive....It's standard practice to brake before indicating.

What a load of rubbish - mirror, signal, manouver is the correct practice. Braking would be part of the manouver so you should always signal your intent before you make any adjustments on the road.

Its Taught BTW.

X.

Sleipnir

xabi wrote: »

What a load of rubbish - mirror, signal, manouver is the correct practice.
Its Taught BTW.

X.

+1

Owen

flazio wrote: »

I've seen other cars that hide the reversing light below the bumper, VW Beetle, Seat Leon, Citroen C4 coupé edition and the MINI.

The MINI changed the lighting setup in 2004, to have twin reverse lights in the main clusters at the rear which provided more visibility. Then in a moment of stupidity, in 2007 when the R56 model was launched, they now too have this indicators inside the brake light setup.

ninty9er wrote: »

What idiot thought you how to drive....It's standard practice to brake before indicating.

God no no no no no. If there's one thing that drives me absolutely cracked on the roads it's people who brake brake brake brake, come to almost a complete stop in the middle of the road in front of you, and then indicate. You don't know what the hell they're doing, and if you should overtake them or not. Please for the love of god and the sanity of other road users, put your indicator on as soon as is humanly possible. We may be good drivers on this forum, but we're not psychic.

irishgrover

ninty9er wrote: »

What idiot thought you how to drive....It's standard practice to brake before indicating.

Wow! Before I read the rest of the posts I assumed that this comment was a joke?!

Matt Simis

irishgrover wrote: »

Wow! Before I read the rest of the posts I assumed that this comment was a joke?!

Indeed. Cant stand people that brake before doing "something". Could be anything as they arent using the indicator. Indicator always overrides Brake lights to the driver behind. Brake lights may not even show the driver is slowing down, lots of morons flash the brake lights everytime they see a bend or oncoming car (omg it could veer into my lane).

Boskowski

Chris Peak wrote: »

That's not really true. When I did my advanced driving course in Hendon (shh).
Braking was the prefered way to slow down. Easing off the accelerator is ok, though. Downshifting may be used when going down a particularly steep hill, or on icy roads; which is sometimes called 'engine braking'.
Brake pads are much cheaper to replace than gearboxes. And, are designed to do the job.

That doesn't make sense at all. The gearbox transfers the mechanical force from the engine to the driveshaft/axles and is therefore under constant mechanical stress while accelerating and also while simply maintaining your speed. If it goes the other way around there is absolutely no harm to it. Engine braking is perfectly alright. I would consider simply braking and leaving the car in a high gear bad driving style. Notice how I didn't say bad driving.

The whole indicating before after breaking discussion here is completely silly. I indicate in due time to let others know what I'm going to do. Whether that is before or after I start using my brakes is completely irrelevant. It depends on the situation and neither method is wrong or right.

As with regards to the subject. I'm surprised these types of indicators were approved by the TUEV in the country where that car is manufactured. I find them .... let's say not easily visible at all times. Especially say at night time, with the rain pouring and with a lot of other cars on the road.

Stark

irishgrover wrote: »

Wow! Before I read the rest of the posts I assumed that this comment was a joke?!

That's what I figured too (surely?)...

Lol at the picture.