Take us out of the recession...

B2k

A little lighter topic about the recession..

So while we're all here sitting around bitchin and moanin about the government and the like and while we're waiting for "China or the US" to do something to boost the worlds economy what ideas could you come up with to boost our own economy or even what business venture would you suggest that could succeed in your own locality at this time. For example, I think the PC was invented in an era of recession as with most great inventions but the boards.ie ideas aren't going to be as groundbreaking!

I always think the town I live in (pop. 2000 approx) could do with a cinema as neither of the two bigger town around it have a cinema either, and in times like this where people still want to enjoy a saturday night out but have not as much as they used to have, a cinema would certainly succeed!

Ideas....?

(Maybe I'm in the wrong board here but some of the political minds on these pages seem to have good ideas to make money even in a downturn!)

NewDubliner

B2k wrote: »

I always think the town I live in (pop. 2000 approx) could do with a cinema as neither of the two bigger town around it have a cinema either, and in times like this where people still want to enjoy a saturday night out but have not as much as they used to have, a cinema would certainly succeed!

But a cinema is all wrong. It shows iimported movies and sells unhealthy junkfoods. In Ireland 2.0(beta), people won't be at the cinema, they'll have second jobs doing call-centre work selling time-shares and health-plans to the Chinese.

Or, since the town is obviously too small to realise economies of scale, it'll be closed down and its population relocated to one of the main cities where it will be cheaper to live & they'll be closer to jobs.

FTA69

I'd say legalise wholesale gambling á la Nevada, build a load of state-owned resorts in Kerry or someplace and use that to accrue revenue. Legalising hemp would be generate loads of money too, although you'd have a load of wrecked, annoying Brits running around the streets like zombies.

ukraine_orange

The government need to buy all off-licences and make them a government monopoly (like Vinmonopolet in Norway), so all profits are then used for sensible things like creating jobs.

Tech3

The government need to implement in the theory of Keynesian economics.

Extra funding for better infrastructure such as broadband, road and rail is needed to get the economy back on track. This will generate tax money back to the government and will bring interest from business from overseas countries to invest here.

The broadband situation is a laugh and its not like were america where they just build huge highways to keep employment levels high. We actually need to keep up the work being currently done on infrstructural projects.

Another area that seriously needs to be looked at now is renewable energy like electricity. Cheaper ways of emplmenting this would make our country attractive to foreign investment as the cost of running a business is here is way too high.

segaBOY

I've a great idea.....
...but until it's patented and marketed boards won't hear about it :pac:

mikemac

I seem to remember hearing Ireland, Finland and Russia were the only countries with large quantities of peat.

Hmmm, there's profit there somewhere, but I just can't see where yet.

Tech3

segaBOY wrote: »

I've a great idea.....
...but until it's patented and marketed boards won't hear about it :pac:

If its basic your fcuked anyway even if it is patented.

Sleepy

Lure in eccentric billionaires by charging them a few million to torture people á la Hostel. We could finally get some use out of our TD's...

NewDubliner

tech2 wrote: »

Extra funding for better infrastructure such as broadband, road and rail is needed to get the economy back on track....We actually need to keep up the work being currently done on infrstructural projects.

We don't need to spend more money on roads, we just need to use them more efficiently.

Instead of decentralising everything and needing roads to ship goods all over the place, we should close down towns that have no industrial reason to exist and encourage centralisation, clustering industries near cities and worker resources where they can easily be serviced.

FTA69

mikemac wrote: »

I seem to remember hearing Ireland, Finland and Russia were the only countries with large quantities of peat.

We could flog the lot to yanks eager for a piece of the "Old Sod".

Or invent healthy vending machines for kids in schools. Children are as fat as fools these days. Having been reared by my nan I didn't even know what the f*ck a burger was until I was 13.

djpbarry

ukraine_orange wrote: »

The government need to buy all off-licences and make them a government monopoly...

…and then they could charge us whatever the hell they want for a few beers. You really think that’s a good idea?

tech2 wrote: »

Extra funding for better infrastructure such as broadband, road and rail is needed to get the economy back on track. This will generate tax money back to the government and will bring interest from business from overseas countries to invest here.
...
Another area that seriously needs to be looked at now is renewable energy like electricity. Cheaper ways of emplmenting this would make our country attractive to foreign investment as the cost of running a business is here is way too high.

Why the emphasis on foreign investment? If the last number of months has taught us anything, it’s that relying on foreign multinational investment (largely in the manufacturing sector) to act as a pillar of the economy is not a wise long-term strategy.

jenzz

If anyone has been listening to Q102 they have a slot every evening think it s about 5 or 6 pm. Viewers ring in their ideas to get us out of the the big R. " recent ones were rent out the bus lanes for €500 a year to any commercial vehicle for use between 10 & 4. Another one was " are you coming for a pint "? Bring the Americans here for a free pint, they will each spend €1500 so it would generate 1.2B in the country. Some of the ideas are hilarious.. Tune in even if just for the giggle factor.

Fighting Irish

ukraine_orange wrote: »

The government need to buy all off-licences and make them a government monopoly (like Vinmonopolet in Norway), so all profits are then used for sensible things like creating jobs.

:rolleyes:

they can't even run the country i don't want them fookinf up my offo

turgon

Maybe if the government stopped taking all our tax money to throw at the bloated welfare state and a public sector they're scared ****less of, then the average consumer might have more money to spend with.

Not that we would have any reason not to shop abroad with the cheaper vat.

ejmaztec

We should follow New Dubliner's ludicrously off-the-wall crazy idea, and drag everybody into either Cork or Dublin, before using the rest of the country as a dumping ground for nuclear and toxic waste. We won't even have to spend any money burying the stuff.

NewDubliner

ejmaztec wrote: »

We should follow New Dubliner's ludicrously off-the-wall crazy idea, and drag everybody into either Cork or Dublin, before using the rest of the country as a dumping ground for nuclear and toxic waste. We won't even have to spend any money burying the stuff.

You must be desperate for a counterargument. If you're going to rebut me, do it right, don't make stuff up.

Nobody would be coerced to live in Dublin or Cork and I certainly did not advocate dumping nuclear waste in the provinces.

If people don't want to live in Dublin, that's their lifestyle choice, they may work near where they live. But let's not subsidise that choice.

Dublin jobs for people who live in Dublin: it's common sense.

Dannyboy83

NewDubliner wrote: »

You must be desperate for a counterargument. If you're going to rebut me, do it right, don't make stuff up.

Nobody would be coerced to live in Dublin or Cork and I certainly did not advocate dumping nuclear waste in the provinces.

If people don't want to live in Dublin, that's their lifestyle choice, they may work near where they live. But let's not subsidise that choice.

Dublin jobs for people who live in Dublin: it's common sense.

How will we feed ourselves?
What about congestion?
Property Prices?
Crime?
Fire?
Where will we house people?

Dannyboy83

Do you mean remove everyone from the country and stick them in Dublin?

ejmaztec

NewDubliner wrote: »

You must be desperate for a counterargument. If you're going to rebut me, do it right, don't make stuff up.

Nobody would be coerced to live in Dublin or Cork and I certainly did not advocate dumping nuclear waste in the provinces.

If people don't want to live in Dublin, that's their lifestyle choice, they may work near where they live. But let's not subsidise that choice.

Dublin jobs for people who live in Dublin: it's common sense.

Excluding the dumping of nuclear and toxic waste, I assumed that I was right on the nail. Can you imagine what the world would be like if the people living outside their capital cities were excluded? This is in the realm of sci-fi super-cities where the elite city-dwellers have to protect themselves from the mob beyond the perimeter.

Are the farmers going to trot up to the city limits to charge over the odds to compensate for the lack of investment in the sticks?

Yes, off the wall ludicrously crazy idea.

NewDubliner

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Do you mean remove everyone from the country and stick them in Dublin?

No.

ejmaztex wrote:

Can you imagine what the world would be like if the people living outside their capital cities were excluded?

Who has proposed this?

dannyboy83 wrote:

How will we feed ourselves?
What about congestion?
Property Prices?
Crime?
Fire?
Where will we house people?

Food comes from farms as it does today.
Congestion will be reduced if people live near where they work.
Property prices are coming down and there's plenty of space in Dublin for more development. People who wish to live and work in Dublin may have to settle for smaller places than they would have down the country.
Crime and fire will be easier to police becuase, unlike in many parts of the country, people will live closer to Garda and fire stations. It will be less expensive to provide these services as the geographical spread will be less.

nesf

tech2 wrote: »

The government need to implement in the theory of Keynesian economics

It can't. We won't be lent the money to do fiscal expansion, we'll be lucky if we don't get crucified on interest rate charges for the amount we'll have to borrow just to make the budget balance. The US is the only country in the world that can get away with major stimulus on top of a budget deficit and even that is being questioned by some of their creditors (i.e China) at the moment.

NewDubliner

nesf wrote: »

It can't. We won't be lent the money to do fiscal expansion,.

Agreed, the path we have to follow is of making the economy more efficient. The 'one for everyone in the audience' give-aways should stop.

Perhaps we should abolish TDs and just vote for political parties? Whoever wins, runs the government with a fixed budget for ministers who they appoint/hire. That might rid us of the pariochial politics that cost us so much in appeasing every village and town.

ParkRunner

The recession is over now, we're grand. just like Italia '90 fuelled the optimism that led to the growth of our economy in the 90's, the Grand Slam victory will put a new found belief into this sports mad country!

smallBiscuit

ignore it and it will go away. I'm not an economist, but as I understand it, a recession is really about consumer confidence in the markets. So if everyone around the world, ignores the recession it will go away

Tech3

NewDubliner wrote: »

The 'one for everyone in the audience' give-aways should stop.

Could you explain?

Perhaps we should abolish TDs and just vote for political parties? Whoever wins, runs the government with a fixed budget for ministers who they appoint/hire. That might rid us of the pariochial politics that cost us so much in appeasing every village and town.

Only problem with your plan is that not many politicians would follow your ideas.

NewDubliner

tech2 wrote: »

Could you explain?

The idea that every town and every village, no matter how economically irrelevant, should be supprted. For example by hiring expensive civil servants to artifically create employment in remote places, like Cahirciveen.

tech2 wrote: »

Only problem with your plan is that not many politicians would follow your ideas.

It would be very difficult to get people to put the collective national interest ahead of pariochial, pork-belly politics.

ejmaztec

NewDubliner wrote: »

The idea that every town and every village, no matter how economically irrelevant, should be supprted. For example by hiring expensive civil servants to artifically create employment in remote places, like Cahirciveen.

It would be very difficult to get people to put the collective national interest ahead of pariochial, pork-belly politics.

In these hi-tech days, distance is no object. For example, the Revenue Commissioners can catch more tax-dodgers when their one-time city offices are spread around the country.

I look forward to the launch of the manifesto for this one-member political party.

NewDubliner

ejmaztec wrote: »

In these hi-tech days, distance is no object. For example, the Revenue Commissioners can catch more tax-dodgers when their one-time city offices are spread around the country.

Indeed, tax-evasion and welfare abuse outside of Dublin is a problem. And, because of the wide scattering of communities, it's been necessary to open many offices around the country to deal with it.

If populations were more centralised, so too would be the services and we'd realise economies of scale & there would be no need to have so many offices around the country.

What you have not refuted is that it's more economical to service concentrated populations.

ejmaztec wrote: »

I look forward to the launch of the manifesto for this one-member political party.

Dublin has a population of many more than just one person.

ejmaztec

NewDubliner wrote: »

Indeed, tax-evasion and welfare abuse outside of Dublin is a problem. And, because of the wide scattering of communities, it's been necessary to open many offices around the country to deal with it.

If populations were more centralised, so too would be the services and we'd realise economies of scale & there would be no need to have so many offices around the country.

What you have not refuted is that it's more economical to service concentrated populations.

Dublin has a population of many more than just one person.

So there's no Social Welfare fraud or tax evasion in Dublin? How many tax offices and social welfare offices are there in the eastern urban sprawl? Why don't they just have one of each?

I would remind you of what happened to Ceausescu. He wanted everybody to live in large urban areas, and even he gave up on that plan.

NewDubliner

ejmaztec wrote: »

So there's no Social Welfare fraud or tax evasion in Dublin? How many tax offices and social welfare offices are there in the eastern urban sprawl? Why don't they just have one of each?

I would remind you of what happened to Ceausescu. He wanted everybody to live in large urban areas, and even he gave up on that plan.

Making stuff up gain I see (just like your bogus allegation that I wanted to dump toxic waste in the countryside).

I have not said that there is no tax evasion or social welfare fraud in Dublin.
Nor have I advocated forcing people to live in urban areas.

You don't seem to be able to refute that cities are more efficient.

andrewdeerpark

Let free market forces rein again.

Very important this toxic bank is not created allowing all the banks and developers push their debt onto the taxpayer.

Developers such as Kelly, Carroll, McNamara etc have to be ruined if they miss payments on loans or stall paying creditors. Have a fire sale of their assets and put them living in a caravan; no protection from going broke like the ordinary punter who misses his/her mortgage and ends up out on the street or in a bad face saving deal with the bank behind closed doors.

This toxic bank idea smacks of another powerful elite "Larry Goodman" style rescue idea with the rest of us sods paying 60% tax for our lifetime. While these boys ride out the storm and in 10 years time they (or their family) are back in the top 10 rich list.

Note the way all is now quiet before this toxic bank con is released together with a painful budget to distract the foolish public.

Tech3

NewDubliner wrote: »

Nor have I advocated forcing people to live in urban areas.

Given your crazy ideas I think people would have no other option but to live in urban areas even though you havnt actaully said it. I am totally against your ideas and that will never change.

NewDubliner

tech2 wrote: »

Given your crazy ideas I think people would have no other option but to live in urban areas even though you havnt actaully said it. I am totally against your ideas and that will never change.

Which ideas do you consider crazy?

Martyr

No offence intended NewDubliner, but what makes you think everyone in the country would want to live in Dublin?

I'd hate to live there.

There are certainly more job opportunities, shops..that kind of thing.
Apart from that, theres really nothing special about it.

NewDubliner

Martyr wrote: »

No offence intended NewDubliner, but what makes you think everyone in the country would want to live in Dublin?

My argument is not exclusively for Dublin, but for the idea that we need to concentrate work and workers in major urban centres. This will facilitate worker mobility, reduce long-distance commutes, congestion and costs in providing public services such as cycle tracks, public transport, water, sewage, broadband, hospitals, education, police, fire etc.

It's about competitiveness and economic realities: cities are more efficient.

The key is to stop subsidising lifestyle choices that undermine our competitiveness and to encourage people to make choices that facilitate the efficient provision of public services.

Those who can afford it can live wherever they like.

Martyr

Well, 1 of the main reasons alot of people didn't move to dublin was simply because it was and still is too expensive.. thats why alot of the foreigners went to the smaller towns around the country..

I don't think everyone moving into the major urban areas tomorrow would solve anything at all.

Its the government who are inefficient with how they're spending taxpayers money and overall running of the country.

NewDubliner

Martyr wrote: »

Well, 1 of the main reasons alot of people didn't move to dublin was simply because it was and still is too expensive. thats why alot of the foreigners went to the smaller towns around the country..

The foreigners went to work in meat factories and farms. These are mostly outside of Dublin.

It's true that it has been cheaper to buy housing outside of cities, but at the expense of commuting costs and congestion. It's also degraded our tourism assets and led in some cases to pollution of water sources. Additionally, social service costs in rural areas will be higher due to the geographical spread of the population. These are hidden costs to the economy. The housing differential is coming down, but the commuting costs are not. These costs erode our competitiveness. The commuting increases demand for imported fuel and vehicles. It's going to be hard to get this population to make choices that result in lifestyles that cost the economy less.

Martyr wrote: »

I don't think everyone moving into the major urban areas tomorrow would solve anything at all.

Nothing? Not anything? Why not? I've given reasons why this would be the case. You've given no counter-argument whatsoever other than that people don't want to. (And no, I do not propose that everyone moves.)

Martyr wrote: »

Its the government who are inefficient with how they're spending taxpayers money and overall running of the country.

For example, the hugely expensive & idiotic 'decentralisation' project, the subsidising of long-distance commuting and the abandonment of the spatial strategy.

Dannyboy83

In the past I turned down a better paid job in Dublin, in preference of a job in Cork. I believe i would do the same again in the future.

Money is nice, but its not everything.
For me, earning 5 to 10k less, can be be a fair trade off for not sitting in traffic for 2 to 3 hours everyday, just 1 of many of the drawbacks of Dublin.
Living here has its drawbacks too of course, I just consider the drawbacks of Dublin to be worse.

It takes me about 60seconds to walk to work since I moved in January.
I used to drive for 90mins each way when I lived in the city.

Martyr

NewDubliner wrote:

The foreigners went to work in meat factories and farms. These are mostly outside of Dublin.

How do you know?

NewDubliner wrote:

Nothing? Not anything? Why not?...

Now? nope..nothing.
The infrastructure isn't there to handle it (because as you know, gov + pub sector workers made b@lls of everything)

NewDubliner wrote:

You've given no counter-argument whatsoever other than that people don't want to

I said its too expensive, thats good enough reason for me.
I'm not prepared to pay €150 or more a week on a room in a stinkin city.

When i need to move to dublin, i'll probably move out of the country.

ejmaztec

Ireland is a big city with lots of green areas for us "city-dwellers" to walk around in. If we couldn't get away to these green city areas, some of us might become a little crazy.

NewDubliner

Martyr wrote: »

How do you know?

Because my farming friends were very grateful to hire Eastern Europeans when the local Irish didn't want to work on farms anymore.

Martyr wrote: »

I said its too expensive, thats good enough reason for me. I'm not prepared to pay €150 or more a week on a room in a stinkin city.When i need to move to dublin, i'll probably move out of the country.

That's your own personal lifestyle choice.

As a previous poster has pointed out, if you don't like Dublin, Cork is quite nice too. It's also a city and has similar efficiency advantages to Dublin.

The point is that we shouldn't subsidise lifestyle choices that don't contribute to economic competitveness. But, people who want to live away from cities are quite welcome to do so as long as it does not impose extra taxes or economic costs on the rest of us.

yoshytoshy

As an Irish(Dublin) born person ,the rural folk here are what make this country tick.
The small towns you pass by when you travel around Ireland and the craic in the pubs.

How anyone would want to take that away from us ,is beyond me

ionix5891

mikemac wrote: »

I seem to remember hearing Ireland, Finland and Russia were the only countries with large quantities of peat.

Hmmm, there's profit there somewhere, but I just can't see where yet.

actually all our "commercial" grade peat (stuff you burn in power plants) be gone in about a decade, ESB know and talked about this...

djpbarry

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

For me, earning 5 to 10k less, can be be a fair trade off for not sitting in traffic for 2 to 3 hours everyday, just 1 of many of the drawbacks of Dublin.

Are you aware that Cork has one of the highest rates of car ownership in the country, whereas Dublin has one of the lowest?

Martyr wrote: »

I'm not prepared to pay €150 or more a week on a room in a stinkin city.

A lot of Dubs would agree, which is probably why so many of us pay considerably less than €150 per week for a room.

I’m prepared to admit that living in the largest city in the country has it’s drawbacks, but let’s stick to the facts, shall we?

Dannyboy83

djpbarry wrote: »

Are you aware that Cork has one of the highest rates of car ownership in the country, whereas Dublin has one of the lowest?

Its about population density, planning and PT methods not car ownership.
Car Ownership in Cork is insane because there is no form of reliable public transport.
No Luas, No Dart, No Metro, No Motorways. Nada.
It still takes no more than an hour to go anywhere tho realistically because the roads are rather well planned and there is still just under 400,000 in the entire county.

Try get from Naas to Dublin Centre any day of the week.
You could do Skibereen or Dungarvan to Cork city centre in the same time despite the fabulous infrastructure in Dublin/Kildare etc.

Here are the population figures:

Cork City 119,418
City and Suburbs 190,384
Metropolitan Area 274,000
Greater Cork 380,400

Greater Cork project population 2011 : 409,000
Greater Cork project population 2021 : 458,900

Here is the development plan:
http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/431500.pdf

Until Cork starts to see some real development, it will probably stay like that. If you crammed the metropolitan area into Cork over night, it would grind to a half immediately.

A lot of Dubs would agree, which is probably why so many of us pay considerably less than €150 per week for a room.
I’m prepared to admit that living in the largest city in the country has it’s drawbacks, but let’s stick to the facts, shall we?

Cork wouldn't be as bad as Dublin for rent, but it wasn't far off it for a while either.
Don't know really what its like now as I moved out to the country in January when I saw all the new taxes coming.

NewDubliner

From The Guardian:

The image of cities is often traffic-clogged, polluted and energy-guzzling, but a new study has shown that city dwellers have smaller carbon footprints than national averages.

The report by London-based International Institute for Environment and Development (IIED) looked at 11 major cities on four continents, including London, Tokyo, New York and Rio de Janeiro.

It found per capita greenhouse gas emissions for a Londoner in 2004 were the equivalent of 6.2 tonnes of CO2, compared with 11.19 for the UK average.

The rural northeast of England, Yorkshire and the Humber, were singled out for having the highest footprints per capita in the UK.

In the US, New Yorkers register footprints of 7.1 tonnes each, less than a third of the US average of 23.92 tonnes.

The use of public transport and denser housing are two of the reasons for urbanites' comparatively low carbon footprints, the authors said, adding that the design of cities significantly affects their residents' emissions....

So, not only is city-living more cost effective in economic terms, it's also kinder to the environment.

emy-87

I am just a history student, but I have an idea...Why doesnt the government invest money in building schools, community buildings, more Luas tracks and roads? Then the builders would be employed, there would be more schools for teachers to work in, and social workers could work in the community centres. And the Infrastructure would be better. Or am I completely wrong? Bear in mind I have no idea about economics or politics, but that is my 2 cents!!

djpbarry

emy-87 wrote: »

Why doesnt the government invest money in building schools, community buildings, more Luas tracks and roads?

What money?

jimmmy

emy-87 wrote: »

.Why doesnt the government invest money in ........

What money is right. We are already borrowing 25 billion this year just to give to who.......our overpaid public service, our overpaid politicians, our dole ( higher than the minimum wage in the UK ), etc. No wonder we are at the bottom of the credit-worthiness league table of countries. Nobody will lend our govt more.

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

No wonder we are at the bottom of the credit-worthiness league table of countries. Nobody will lend our govt more.

Indeed.:rolleyes:

Ireland Sells Bonds at Its First Auction Since 2005

March 24 (Bloomberg) -- Ireland sold 1 billion euros ($1.36 billion) of bonds at its first auction in four years to raise cash as the economic slump saps tax revenue.

Irish 10-year bonds rose after the auction, reducing the difference in yield, or spread, between the securities and German benchmark notes to the narrowest in three weeks. The cost of insuring against a government default declined, credit- default swap prices showed.

“Ireland chose a fantastic time to put their toes back in the water,” said Peter Chatwell, a fixed-income strategist in London at Calyon, the investment-banking unit of Credit Agricole SA. “Risk appetite has improved and the spread is pulling in, suggesting the auction inspired a lot of confidence.” ...