getting freelance writing experience

ggirl

I love writing and have been told I am very good at it. I would love to get some freelance writing experience either online or for magazines. I would be happy to write for free to get experience if necessary. I am just wondering if anyone has any tips as to how you get experience? I have contacted a few places but not heard anything back and am just not sure how you are meant to go about it! Thanks

ah,sure

Ring whatever publication you feel your proposed content will match and figure out which, say five, suit you best.

Then write one that would suit them, ring them then and ask for the name of the features editor and get put through.

When onto him/her, ask for the email address and tell him/her you're sending a piece. Try and get them talking (not too easy)

There's chance one in five will want to strilke something up - but it has to be good.

Best of luck

jdivision

Without being rude, Who told you you were a good writer? The amount of people who write flowery prose which gets praised by friends or teachers and think they'll be natural journalists is unbelievable. It's actually a disadvantage.
Secondly, I would advise you to write to a newspaper or whatever type of media industry you're interested in and asking for work experience. That way you'll see how the industry works. Freelance budgets have been slashed so getting experience is more important than trying to pitch ideas at this stage imo. Have the professionalism to find out who you should be writing out and ring them afterwards
Lastly, good luck with it.

Trouser_Press

jdivision wrote: »

Without being rude, Who told you you were a good writer? The amount of people who write flowery prose which gets praised by friends or teachers and think they'll be natural journalists is unbelievable

A nice, encouraging, helpful post. :rolleyes:

ggirl wrote: »

I love writing and have been told I am very good at it.....

Keep at it ggirl, if you're good enough and persistent enough all you need is one break out of a thousand attempts and that will get things going for you. But you have to be persistent! Don't worry about the rejections or 'non-replies', we all had countless numbers of them starting out.

Try and get hold of as many email addresses as you can of editors of the sections of newspapers/magazines that you are interested in writing for, eg news, entertainment, etc. In some papers - eg the Irish Times - they publish the names of the editors in each section, sometimes they're available on the publications' websites.

Then write your articles and email them to your contacts. Again, all you need is to catch the eye once to get a break - that won't be easy because of the competition, but it happens. Yes, times are exceptionally tough at the moment in the newspaper business, staff writers are increasingly being asked to do the work freelancers would previously have done, but - again - if you're good enough and if you have a flair for writing there's no reason why you can't get work.

I know nothing about writing for websites, so can't help you there, but do look to get published in local papers, it's a great way to get a start.

Be prolific, and be topical - and keep at it. I'm friendly with one of the better known journalists in the country and he said he could have papered his house with 'rejection slips' when he was starting out.

Best of luck.

monument

jdivision wrote: »

Without being rude, Who told you you were a good writer? The amount of people who write flowery prose which gets praised by friends or teachers and think they'll be natural journalists is unbelievable

Trouser_Press wrote: »

A nice, encouraging, helpful post. :rolleyes:

To be fair, jdivision's advice is reasonably fair and helpful if taken in full.

The opening poster risks annoying editors and being black listed in one way or another. Sending what editors may see as useless or poorly written articles could lead to the sender's emails being automatically being redirected to the spam bin.

Advising somebody to start sending articles to eds without also warning them about how and what they write about is, frankly, careless advice.

Trouser_Press

monument wrote: »

Sending what editors may see as useless or poorly written articles could lead to the sender's emails being automatically being redirected to the spam bin.

What makes you assume the OP's writing could be "useless or poorly written"? Maybe it is, but neither me nor you knows that, so why go down the negative route and try and discourage them? That's my point. If it is "useless or poorly written" then the OP won't get anywhere, but maybe.....just maybe....it's good??

monument wrote: »

Advising somebody to start sending articles to eds without also warning them about how and what they write about is, frankly, careless advice.

Tripe. You must "warn" an editor "how and what" you write about?? What, like "Dear Editor, next week I'm going to email you a 900 word piece on global warming". Right.

The friend I mentioned above got his break by sending in articles on spec, that's how most staffers I know started out. And that's how my boss recruited most of his staff.

Look, sorry for the sharp tone, but I just get tired of the 'authorities' on this forum, which I've lurked on for an age, trying to put people off even trying to get in to journalism. Few offer any encouragement, usually just smart-arsed replies, all designed to make the OPs believe it's not even worth a go. It's a desperately hard business to break in to, but how many full-time journalists are there in the country? Quite a few. No doubt they were all told at the outset, as I was, that there was no point even trying.

monument

Trouser_Press wrote: »

What makes you assume the OP's writing could be "useless or poorly written"? Maybe it is, but neither me nor you knows that, so why go down the negative route and try and discourage them? That's my point. If it is "useless or poorly written" then the OP won't get anywhere, but maybe.....just maybe....it's good??

And if I am presuming potential writers are bad (which I am not), you then are presuming they are good. When giving advice, it is better to advice against the latter even if potential writer is better than all of us here.

On the second part, the 'they' I mention is the writer, in this case the opening poster. Not very clear writing on my part I'll admit. So, read the line now as: Advising potential writers to start sending articles to eds without also warning the potential writers about how and what they write about is, frankly, careless advice.

It is better to give advice or warnings on how and what to write about rather than presuming they are good.

Pen1987

In fairness, even editors of college newspapers I know get annoyed when people just send them articles on spec without any prior contact. It's not productive for either the writer or the editor. The writer doesnt get any direction on what the editor is looking for, and the editor doesnt get to direct the writer in any way. Plus, the editor has to waste 10 minutes reading the article itself and deciding whether the article is relevant to their audience.

Editors will be happy to take stories for free, they're far more likely to actually print them if they know they're coming though. I don't bother reading anything from someone I don't know, and I'm not even an editor, who get far more press releases daily.

If you're not forewarning, in essence, you're spamming, it's irritating and it's a waste of time. Give them a call 10 minutes beforehand and say "I've got something you might be interested, its peice a about XXX, I won't be expecting payment but you may be interested in using, can I email it through?"

In that instance you'll probably be given the editors personal email address, rather than the news desk/features desk/sports desk address, which means your peice will get straight to who you're after and not hidden under a mound of press releases in the desk-inbox.

Definitely, forewarn, don't spam.

monument

Shane Hegarty has a good post on how to be a good freelance and links to more... http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/presenttense/2007/09/03/how-to-be-a-good-freelance-journalist/

We should really have a sticky thread on this topic given that there's one of these threads every second week.

Pen1987 wrote: »

In fairness, even editors of college newspapers I know get annoyed when people just send them articles on spec without any prior contact. It's not productive for either the writer or the editor. The writer doesnt get any direction on what the editor is looking for, and the editor doesnt get to direct the writer in any way. Plus, the editor has to waste 10 minutes reading the article itself and deciding whether the article is relevant to their audience.

Editors will be happy to take stories for free, they're far more likely to actually print them if they know they're coming though. I don't bother reading anything from someone I don't know, and I'm not even an editor, who get far more press releases daily.

If you're not forewarning, in essence, you're spamming, it's irritating and it's a waste of time. Give them a call 10 minutes beforehand and say "I've got something you might be interested, its peice a about XXX, I won't be expecting payment but you may be interested in using, can I email it through?"

In that instance you'll probably be given the editors personal email address, rather than the news desk/features desk/sports desk address, which means your peice will get straight to who you're after and not hidden under a mound of press releases in the desk-inbox.

Definitely, forewarn, don't spam.

I don't fully agree with you there. I can't speak for news or sports, but I've had features published by sending them in unsolicited attched and below, with a pitch up top.

jdivision

Trouser_Press wrote: »

A nice, encouraging, helpful post. :rolleyes:

Well done. Nicely put. Did you read what I wrote? I asked a simple question. Who told her she's a good writer? It is actually of relevance here. And yes, I did wish her good luck. Well done on being a know all. The irony of course was that I was going to send her somebody's contact details in Galway if she posted up who told her she was a good writer. In the past I've gotten a lot of people work experience in journalism, one of whom is now supplements editor for a national title. In all those cases I felt the people had talent and deserved a start. But you go and be presumptive.

sceptre

Pen1987 wrote: »

In fairness, even editors of college newspapers I know get annoyed when people just send them articles on spec without any prior contact.

I didn't when I was editing one and that was only last year.

Barlett

I'm currently doing a journalism course part-time it's pretty good 'cause its less theory & more practical. I've knocked out a couple of decent features for soccer, they're not quite finished yet but will be soon.

They're concept pieces (that's the right name?) so there's no interview but they're are some quotes. Just wondering what's the best paper to cater these kind of features to - I was thinking the Irish examiner they're Championship pullout seems take many different pieces?

Also just for anyone interested in writing sports stories google sportingo it gives good advise for starting out.

Lloyderz

I am doing a masters in journalism at the moment. The impression i am getting from my lecturers and this thread, is that it seems hopeless to get a job when i leave college. I am currently writing for an online league of Ireland website for free trying to get some experience. Im only in my early 20s, so i know i have a long road ahead of me!

What are peoples thoughts/ideas on the current freelance market?

Pen1987

Lloyderz wrote: »

I am doing a masters in journalism at the moment. The impression i am getting from my lecturers and this thread, is that it seems hopeless to get a job when i leave college. I am currently writing for an online league of Ireland website for free trying to get some experience. Im only in my early 20s, so i know i have a long road ahead of me!

What are peoples thoughts/ideas on the current freelance market?

Almost impossible to make a living out of it straight out of college. I'm in a similar position, I plan on working my balls off with it as a part-time job until I break into a staff job in 4/5 years. Hopefully. It'll be more a vocation than a occupation for anyone coming out of college in the next three years at least IMHO.

Others may differ.

Trouser_Press

jdivision wrote: »

Well done. Nicely put. Did you read what I wrote?

Yes. :rolleyes:

jdivision

Good reply, as intelligent as your first one.

monument

Pen1987 wrote: »

Almost impossible to make a living out of it straight out of college.

It's hard, and even harder now, but not impossible

luckat

Freelance rates are being slashed at the moment.

Editors, not intelligent enough to realise that it's a bad thing to establish the principle that you should squeeze people's rates - they'll be next themselves as their managements realise that if you can do it to a writer, you can do the same to an editor - are squeezing the budgets till they squeak.

First thing to decide, ggirl, is what you want to write about. Do you want to report the news or write features?

Have you a local paper where you could get some work practice so that you'd see how newspapers work? If you do that, you'll find the journalists helpful and kind, and they'll give you a good steer on how to get commissions, and give you names and phone numbers.

piggies

This may seem like a stupid question, but apart from newspapers where exactly do journalists get work?
Television and radio must be just as competitive if not more so than newspapers and magazines?

I always thought of journalism as such a broad field - considering the amount of magazines/newspapers etc. there are..this thread has definitely proven me wrong! :eek:

Cavehill Red

Hate to disillusion the OP, but papers and even magazines increasingly aren't interested in stylists.
People who are overly proud of their prose are better off trying to write a novel or poetry - that's what they really want to do anyway, deep down, if they are honest with themselves.
Editors aren't interested in pretty prose - they're interested in stories. The thing can read like a dog's dinner (and many good journalists' copy does read just like that, but I wouldn't encourage a beginner to file ugly copy) but if the story's there and it's good, we have subs and editors to tidy it up.
We want stories, and we want to know who we're dealing with.
So an email with a pitch will suffice. We don't have time to wade through thousands of words of unwanted copy, and will likely dump it rather than read it, so as to avoid being accused of ripping off the idea should it happen that we run a similar themed piece at a later date. As it often does - people tend to think of the same things at the same time, events are current, after all.
To the lad studying and writing for the online site, best of luck. I appreciate that you're not writing to a commission, but you give the impression of taking an inordinately long time over your articles.
Try to be a little less precious over your copy, and set yourself a must-complete-by deadline.
Trust me, no one gets dropped quicker than people who don't file copy on time. It's a great habit to get into turning ideas around into stories as quickly as possible.
Right now, an awful lot of really good journalists have been let go from the industry in recent times, and I don't know of anyone hiring. The recession has hit the press harder than most, because many people save money by sourcing their news online or via TV these days.
I can't see that turning around any time soon. When I was last invited to give a talk at a school to a class of final year students, I was stunned to see that around half wanted a job in the media.
I was even more stunned to discover most hadn't even read a paper that morning, but that's another issue.
Anyhow, I can only repeat now my advice to anyone who doesn't actually feel a vocation for the industry - if there is ANYTHING else you're interested in doing for a career, go do it instead.
There are few prospects at this time and it is a difficult industry to work in, even in the good times. Long hours, not particularly great remuneration for the vast majority of journalists, poor working conditions (freelance and shifting for years with no job security), and a working environment that can be rough and ready. Swearing is still the norm, as is raised editorial voices in many cases.
Before anyone asks, no, we have no vacancies, no I don't take copy on spec, no I'm not telling you who I work for, no I won't hear a pitch via PM, yes our freelance budget has been slashed to ribbons and yes, I am working longer hours for 20% less pay than two years ago.

kpbdublin

Do your research about the publication. That is so important. Does your article fit into the section that you are sending it to? So often freelancers pitch articles to the wrong place.

Also find out when editors are busy. They will be more receptive when they are not too close to a deadline.

Use any contacts you have. Contact a pro, preferably one who writes for the publication, and run the article past them. If you are lucky they might even put in a word for you.

If you are starting out, write the article first. Ring the features editor at a good time, tell them what the article is about, tell them it is written, and can be sent.

Try to find a hook. Is the subject topical?

In your article get to the point reasonably quickly.

Write in shortish paragraphs, appropriate to the style of the publication.

Get the spelling and grammar right!!!!!!!

I would advise any budding freelance to write a blog. Some prominent columnists have bagged newspaper work in this way. It is also good practise.

petally

Lloyderz wrote: »

I am doing a masters in journalism at the moment. The impression i am getting from my lecturers and this thread, is that it seems hopeless to get a job when i leave college. I am currently writing for an online league of Ireland website for free trying to get some experience. Im only in my early 20s, so i know i have a long road ahead of me!

What are peoples thoughts/ideas on the current freelance market?

Hello there.

I was just wondering. Where did you do the Master's and was it any good. It's just I'm thinking of going into it myself and wanted to see what you thought of the course you did..

Thanks

madclaff

Hi there - I'm a newbie on the freelance journalism front and had some questions for the more seasoned professionals.

I tried contacting the NUJ for some advice but was told that since I was not a member, they couldn't help me out: "Our Freelance branch will probably have members who could help but unfortunately due to the Data Protection Act I cannot give you contact details for members and, as you are not an NUJ member, I cannot give you contact details for the branch officials." I used to work within a B2B media organisation and no one there was a member. To be honest there never was any talk of the NUJ but I suppose it's different in newspaper circles and the like.

Anyway, here's the questions:

First off - what is the deal with fees? Editors seem to duck the topic. They also don't seem to be too keen to haggle (I don't blame them, in fairness).

I've only been working with Irish magazines and have been asked to work for as little as €120 for a 700+ word article to 30 cent per word.

This is what the NUJ had to say on the topic: "There are no freelance rates in the Republic of Ireland and haven't been for approximately 8 years. The rates were abolished by The Competition Authority who saw them as anti competition. We have been debarred from giving recommendations on rates by the Authority so we cannot even give you a guideline as to what you should look for."

Any comparable statistical information out there? Does anyone know, ballpark, what is the going rate? Or is there just a hodge-podge of rates being offered for the same work in different publications? There's a handful of UK websites with comparative fee information but we're not in the UK so I don't find them useful.

Secondly - I'm getting paid a month after publication: is that common practice? Seems like a long time to wait considering copy is typically handed in two to three weeks before publication.

Last but not least - PI insurance: any advice on whether or not this is necessary, and if it is where to get it in Ireland?

Many many thanks in advance!

jdivision

In my experience, 20c per word would be common enough in newspapers unless it's advertorial. Specialist work gets more, exclusives should too. Payment time varies dramatically, most pay month after it's published. You should always ask how much you're getting paid for a piece, there are some shysters out htere. I remember writing for one magazine group in college and they never paid me, they must have forgotten because a few years later they rang me and asked me to write a column for one of their specialists publications. They were told exactly where to go. They aren't alone in ripping freelances off, RTE was another great one for not telling people they were entitled to holiday pay.

The Agogo

madclaff wrote: »

I've only been working with Irish magazines and have been asked to work for as little as €120 for a 700+ word article to 30 cent per word.

I get paid €0 for 1500 words a week. When you're starting, you'll be lucky to get a 'thank you' note (which I receive thankfully), let alone some remuneration. It's all about portfolio and experience at that stage.

Prove to them that you are a f**king excellent writer first, then demand money.

ggirl:

best advice:
1) Make sure piece is very-well presented and contains no spelling or grammar mistakes.

2) Make the pilot article brief.