Work in IT, am I mad asking for a pay rise now?

nick_nz

Hello there,
Just a quick question to anybody that’s interested.

I have been living in Dublin for a nearly a year now, moved from Australia for the whole OE thing. Also getting my visa extended for another two years, this country is a great laugh!

Basically I’m working in IT in a joint PHP development/System Admin role. It’s pretty sweet and I’m due for a performance review in a week. Everything is OK, except for my current salary. Briefly, I have 1.5 years experience out of Uni, was on $65,000 AUD, and am currently on €40,000. I realise that with the current exchange rate €40,000 equates to approx $80,000 AUD but I don’t really see it this way. For instance, the cost of living is MUCH higher in Ireland than Australia. I feel I am being short changed here.

What do ya reckon? Is asking for at least a 10% wage increase in this current climate unreasonable. Or would I be playing with fire here. Tricky situation I am in....

Cheers!

c4sea

I am wondering , what kind of company you working ?

copacetic

wait until you are in the review and see what they have to say, unless you know the company is rolling in cash I'd keep the head down. If they are giving people pay rises then you will get your fair share I'd assume. If not then demanding it could be a bad move unless you are a star..

nick_nz

Thanks for the replies. It’s a property souring company. Yeah, I have noticed the odd bonus being given out, there hasn’t been any pay cuts/redundancies that I know off, and so it mightn’t hurt to ask

jim o doom

I reckon you should base what you want your wage to be, on the standard wage for that sort of job with your experience in Ireland.
Personally I would ENTIRELY ignore the high cost of living in Ireland as a mitigating factor, because you would be laughed out of the room.

Reasoning behind the second thing I posted was as follows; good friend of mine with University diploma/degree (not sure which) in computing and a bunch of MS certification and other stuff as well, worked here and then moved, worked and lived in Australia for 2 years.
During that time there, he was receiving a good wage, and with the cost of living there as it is, he was able to afford his own large apartment, whatever food and alcohol he wanted, etc - lived a good life in other words.
So he returns to Ireland after 2 years, with 2 years more experience, gets a decent job in Ireland. Now the cost of living in Ireland is so high, he has to rent an apartment with 2 others and is constantly broke. Does that mean he gets paid more? no - cost of living is not a factor your boss will consider. And I would imagine if you mentionned cost of living, you might be asked, "if it's so expensive to live here, you can always move".

Now I don't agree with the last statement made, but I can imagine many dóuchebag bosses using that line - especially in light of the currently *recession BS* even if the company you are with is doing well.

bullpost

Your salary seems reasonable to me, given only 1.5 years experience?

ntlbell

bullpost wrote: »

Your salary seems reasonable to me, given only 1.5 years experience?

for what he's doing I think he's even a tad over paid.

InReality

Sure ask about it but don't specify a figure, they can only say no.

A 10% raise is very unlikely though imo.

I know v good people getting no raise this year.

prentice

overpaid at the price mate.

1.5 years out of uni? you have done well to get that...

so to answer, yes you are mad!

Try1ng

prentice wrote: »

overpaid at the price mate.

1.5 years out of uni? you have done well to get that...

so to answer, yes you are mad!

Agree - your on good money for 1.5 experience

jamesd

I agree - your on a great salary for your experiance.

markpb

You're not going to like this but I'm going to agree with the others - I was three years out of college with a BSc + MSc in development before I was earning that much and now, two years, later, I'm on 50k which I would consider quite good.

There's nothing stopping you asking if you think the company is secure and doing well.

delop

The Girlfriend just got a job as a PM in an IT company, 12 yrs experience and probably a bit overqualified for the position.. She was offered 27 1/2 p/a and they wouldnt budge on that...

IMO Ask for it now, cause you will not get anything more from I.T. until we are well out of this recession, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if your and most other I.T companies will introduce pay cuts when they find out that other companies are getting away with it without too much trouble....

World is changing again, and here was me thinking that I.T was a lean as it could be from our 2001/2 I.T. recession , remember that one>? caused hassle in the stock market and some people/companies were destroyed, but the I.T. recession didnt plunge the world into a depression... Cheeky financial sector baxtards!!

JJJJNR

Cost of living is going down, still its expensive, however your on a good salary, but there's nothing stopping you asking for a pay rise if -

A. Things are going well

B. You are performing

C. Meeting targets.

I'd go for 2.5 - 3% in the current climate, but say you would like a 10 - 12% rise over the next 3 years, you would be cheeky to expect any more. Plus your employer will see this as a commitment to staying.

nick_nz

Thanks for everyone’s input on this one, really appreciated. Well the consensus is I should count myself lucky. I think I might just hold back for 6 months before asking for any increase on the salary. Don't stir things up!

Just on a side note here. Some people I know have said why am I over here when I can have a better lifestyle/more disposable income living in New Zealand/Australia. Simple really. I enjoy living in Ireland – locals are great, close to travel throughout Europe and just good fun overall.
Thanks again!

stackeye

no offence but i get the impression that you my friend are one of those cocky australians, 1.5 years out of college with a bit of php and sys admin you are overpaid mate, you shouldnt even be on €30,000 so my answer is go home and get your $65,000

copacetic

stackeye wrote: »

no offence but i get the impression that you my friend are one of those cocky australians, 1.5 years out of college with a bit of php and sys admin you are overpaid mate, you shouldnt even be on €30,000 so my answer is go home and get your $65,000

"no offence but"


three words that generally preface incredibly offensive idiotic statements like the above, in the same category as 'I'm no racist but"

nick_nz

stackeye wrote: »

no offence but i get the impression that you my friend are one of those cocky australians, 1.5 years out of college with a bit of php and sys admin you are overpaid mate, you shouldnt even be on €30,000 so my answer is go home and get your $65,000

Makes me laugh. Firstly I’m from New Zealand, only was living in Australia for a little while. Also, I’m not trying to ‘show off’ or be ‘cocky’. Just after advise here. Idiot.

stackeye

Ah new zealand/Australia its all the one

markpb

stackeye wrote: »

no offence but i get the impression that you my friend are one of those cocky australians, 1.5 years out of college with a bit of php and sys admin you are overpaid mate, you shouldnt even be on €30,000 so my answer is go home and get your $65,000

-1

There's no call for that. If you can get a well paid job, fair play to you.

axer

stackeye wrote: »

Ah new zealand/Australia its all the one

I guess that makes you english.

philboy

stackeye wrote: »

Ah new zealand/Australia its all the one

Ignore this idiocy Nick.

I graduated in 2004 and was working in a company for 2.5 years doing mainly PHP, MySQL, MsSQL, HTML, Javascript. I was on €32k when i left. I was working in Galway BTW. I would be well happy with your salary but if they have room to manoeuvre then go for it.

I left to go painting for a change. I did this for nearly 2 years & at the minute I am trying to get back into an IT role & finding it nigh on impossible. Trying both Ireland and London.

nick_nz

axer wrote: »

I guess that makes you english.

This is why I love Ireland. The wit is brilliant

Maglight

€40k is about the going rate for that job, especially for someone with only 1.5 years experience. The cost of living in Ireland vs Australia has nothing to do with your negotiations. Ask for a 10% payrise if you like, but don't be surprised if they laugh at you. good luck

andrewh5

With the worldwide economic situation as it is you want to be grateful you still have a job. Especially after Dell's announcement this morning.

If you find our cost of living difficult you could always go home to Oz.

hobochris

Maglight wrote: »

€40k is about the going rate for that job, especially for someone with only 1.5 years experience. The cost of living in Ireland vs Australia has nothing to do with your negotiations. Ask for a 10% payrise if you like, but don't be surprised if they laugh at you. good luck

+1

I came in this morning to find that I'll be getting 10% cut for the next few months. Id keep in mind that there are currently unemployed IT specialists with a hell of a lot more experience than you that at the moment(given the climate) would do your job for probably about 10k less then your on.

ToxicPaddy

I think there is no harm in sussing out if a payrise is possible, but wait and see what they say on your review first. A lot of companies are doing everything they can at the moment to hold onto their cash and cut costs, so going in demanding a payrise will not only p*ss em off, chances are it might mark you as a cost they can cut..

Where I'm working they are having a decent enough year so far but are being careful with the cash and arent giving anyone payrises, however they did give small bonuses to those who earned em.. not as much as the last few years but it was better than nothing.

You have to remember where a bonus is a once off payment, a payrise is an ongoing cost as they have to increase not only your pay, but if they contribute to your pension then that goes up too as its a % rate of your salary etc..

Never mind the begrudgers here.. the fact that they agreed to pay you what you're earning in the first place means they obviously think you're worth paying that much too for your skillset and knowledge..

By all means see what they say and you never know your luck..

Tox

nick_nz

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

I think there is no harm in sussing out if a payrise is possible, but wait and see what they say on your review first. A lot of companies are doing everything they can at the moment to hold onto their cash and cut costs, so going in demanding a payrise will not only p*ss em off, chances are it might mark you as a cost they can cut..

Where I'm working they are having a decent enough year so far but are being careful with the cash and arent giving anyone payrises, however they did give small bonuses to those who earned em.. not as much as the last few years but it was better than nothing.

You have to remember where a bonus is a once off payment, a payrise is an ongoing cost as they have to increase not only your pay, but if they contribute to your pension then that goes up too as its a % rate of your salary etc..

Never mind the begrudgers here.. the fact that they agreed to pay you what you're earning in the first place means they obviously think you're worth paying that much too for your skillset and knowledge..

By all means see what they say and you never know your luck..

Tox

Best advise so far. Thanks!

Capt'n Midnight

There is always Plan B :pac: - if only it were so easy.





Is it worth sounding out your co-workers , a little fishing to see how they feel the company is going and what the likelyhood of a pay cut is or shorter working hours is ?

bobbbb

delop wrote: »

The Girlfriend just got a job as a PM in an IT company, 12 yrs experience and probably a bit overqualified for the position.. She was offered 27 1/2 p/a and they wouldnt budge on that...

IMO Ask for it now, cause you will not get anything more from I.T. until we are well out of this recession, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if your and most other I.T companies will introduce pay cuts when they find out that other companies are getting away with it without too much trouble....

World is changing again, and here was me thinking that I.T was a lean as it could be from our 2001/2 I.T. recession , remember that one>? caused hassle in the stock market and some people/companies were destroyed, but the I.T. recession didnt plunge the world into a depression... Cheeky financial sector baxtards!!

What

Either shes not very good at her job or shes easily taken advantage of.
She really needs to stand up and be counted.

From where im standing the recession has not hit the IT sector at all. Its still tough for us to get people.

ntlbell

bobbbb wrote: »

What

Either shes not very good at her job or shes easily taken advantage of.
She really needs to stand up and be counted.

From where im standing the recession has not hit the IT sector at all. Its still tough for us to get people.

your company must have an awful rep or your HR department are clueless

there is a lot of very good experienced IT folk out of work.

the recession is hitting all sectors just some worse than others.

if you think IT hasn't felt the pain you're on cloud 9

bobbbb

ntlbell wrote: »

your company must have an awful rep or your HR department are clueless

there is a lot of very good experienced IT folk out of work.

the recession is hitting all sectors just some worse than others.

if you think IT hasn't felt the pain you're on cloud 9

Only inexperienced or people who are no good at their jobs in IT are out of work. Im talking DB people and Devs here, Not network or helpdesk staff.

Like i said, its very hard to get experienced, good IT staff.

There is no shortage of applicants who are not as qualified as they seem to think they are.
for example 2 weeks ago i had a guy looking for a job as an Oracle DBA. During the interview it turned out that he had done a 2 week course in Oracle. He had been working helpdesk for 4 years and his company had recently promoted him to being their Oracle DBA. He thought he really was an Oracle DBA. This is the type of person who is out of work in IT.

Just out of interest. How many good developers or DBAs with over 5 years experience do you know who are actually out a job? How long have they been looking for? Have they looked in Dublin and London?

ntlbell

bobbbb wrote: »

Only inexperienced or people who are no good at their jobs in IT are out of work. Im talking DB people and Devs here, Not network or helpdesk staff.

Like i said, its very hard to get experienced, good IT staff.

There is no shortage of applicants who are not as qualified as they seem to think they are.
for example 2 weeks ago i had a guy looking for a job as an Oracle DBA. During the interview it turned out that he had done a 2 week course in Oracle. He had been working helpdesk for 4 years and his company had recently promoted him to being their Oracle DBA. He thought he really was an Oracle DBA. This is the type of person who is out of work in IT.

Just out of interest. How many good developers or DBAs with over 5 years experience do you know who are actually out a job? How long have they been looking for? Have they looked in Dublin and London?

Sorry, I didn't realise the whole if the IT sector was narrowed down to dev's with 5+ years.

We let go 35 senior dev's in november they all had 7+ years with our company and from what I hear not one has got as much as a sniff since.

The main problem is people who are in rolls now don't want to risk moving so they sit on their hands, company's keeping folding flooding the market with both good and bad.

We started hiring again in early Feb and have had no problem getting in really good cv's leading to really good dev's

so as i say, maybe your company has a bad rep which is keeping them away or your not advertrising the jobs well enough.

markpb

ntlbell wrote: »

We let go 35 senior dev's in november they all had 7+ years with our company and from what I hear not one has got as much as a sniff since.

We're letting several devs go too but they've all been able to get interviews and most have job offers after six weeks. They would have had between 3 and 10 years experience. It's not as hot as it used to be but it's not as bad as other sectors.

We started hiring again in early Feb and have had no problem getting in really good cv's leading to really good dev's. so as i say, maybe your company has a bad rep which is keeping them away or your not advertrising the jobs well enough.

Different companies have different requirements. When we hire standard C# devs, we have no problems getting plenty of good people but if we look for someone with TP experience or in terminal development, we normally have to hire from outside Ireland.

ntlbell

markpb wrote: »

We're letting several devs go too but they've all been able to get interviews and most have job offers after six weeks. They would have had between 3 and 10 years experience. It's not as hot as it used to be but it's not as bad as other sectors.



Different companies have different requirements. When we hire standard C# devs, we have no problems getting plenty of good people but if we look for someone with TP experience or in terminal development, we normally have to hire from outside Ireland.

I agree, but he said he was looking for an oracle DBA it's not like it's something very obscure.

bobbbb

ntlbell wrote: »

I agree, but he said he was looking for an oracle DBA it's not like it's something very obscure.

Was looking for 1 Oracle DBA and got one.
I was using that as an example to tell how some people come in without they skills or experience they pretend to have.

You're not making much sense there. How can you have 35 senior devs of 7+ years experience let go in November and not one has got so much as a sniff yet?

That would fly in the face of my own experience and indeed that of most people in here i should think.

The longest person ive known in the last 6 months to be out of a job for is 3 weeks, and he is fussy as hell. And that includes some people with less than 5 years exp.

ntlbell

bobbbb wrote: »

Was looking for 1 Oracle DBA and got one.
I was using that as an example to tell how some people come in without they skills or experience they pretend to have.

You're not making much sense there. How can you have 35 senior devs of 7+ years experience let go in November and not one has got so much as a sniff yet?

That would fly in the face of my own experience and indeed that of most people in here i should think.

The longest person ive known in the last 6 months to be out of a job for is 3 weeks, and he is fussy as hell. And that includes some people with less than 5 years exp.

Thats the reality of the situation, I also know excellent sys admin/net admin that have been out of work since august.

plus they had more than 7 years they were just with us for the last 7

I have nothing to gain by exaggerating here?

AmberWaives

bobbbb wrote: »

The longest person ive known in the last 6 months to be out of a job for is 3 weeks, and he is fussy as hell. And that includes some people with less than 5 years exp.

What avenues did these folks use to find job leads--word of mouth, recruiters, online listings, etc?

What technologies do they work in?

Do you have any anecdotal information about how many applicants they were competing against for their new jobs?

It would be interesting to know how many CV's the HR department had and how many candidates were shortlisted for an interview.

Blue_Wolf

cost of living is going down a bit so your getting more for your euro now. I think if your company is doing well than theres nothing wrong with asking for pay increase. I would wait for the review and see how the company is doing.

mountainyman

I am a .net contractor and I have been out of work for 2 weeks. Not much out there. The reality is that as Bobbb says employers can get exactly what they want right now and so they won't stretch to generalists.

(Unless they need a generalist):)

bobbbb

AmberWaives wrote: »

What avenues did these folks use to find job leads--word of mouth, recruiters, online listings, etc?

What technologies do they work in?

Do you have any anecdotal information about how many applicants they were competing against for their new jobs?

It would be interesting to know how many CV's the HR department had and how many candidates were shortlisted for an interview.

we always go through agencies. a necessary evil that i hate doing.

we didnt have a great choice of candidates tbh. Of those who applied about 50% were inexperienced. ie had less than 5 years experience which was our cut-off point.
Of the rest we had about 3 people applying per position on average and interviewed them all. Some who got offers had got other jobs in the meantime. Others had left the country.

It wasnt easy at all.