Badger baiting

LegacyUser

Am going unreg for this.

My problem is with my younger brother. He is involved in badger baiting. It's such a horrible, cruel activity and is also illegal. He breeds dogs solely for this purpose and although he treats them well (outside of involving them in badger batiting), I know there are a lot of people involved in this who don't and their dogs live in terrible conditions.

We have talked about this many times, he knows both myself and my parents are against it. He is almost 25 years of age and seems obsessed with this. My question is, what should I do? I would like it if my brother wasn't involved in this but would also like to put a stop to it in our area.

Anything I do is likely to have repercussions for my family. Any advice that you have would be much appreciated.

MsFifers

Can you inform your local ISPCA with an annonymous tip-off the next time there is baiting? Tell them the time and location etc.

Your brother might be fined, but it sounds like reasoning with him hasn't worked. He probably needs a good fright or will continue. Telling the authorities is the right thing to do and I can't think of any other options you have.

Vegeta

I can see how difficult your situation must be.

Any chance of an intervention where you and your parents sit him down and tell him that you all disapprove of his behaviour.

Why does he focus on badgers?

I know you may be vegan/vegetarian and against any killing of animals but there are legal forms of hunting which he could pursue instead of blatantly breaking the law.

Poloman

Its barbaric, completely unnecessary and needs to be stopped. I would make an anon call to the ISPCA giving details of when and where these events take place.

Its the cruelest thing you can to another living animal. I hope you have the willpower to name and shame. He has been approached a number of times by those who love him and he turns his head and carries on. i would say the same if he was assaulting kids. Dont mention his name, mention someone elses name if you like but it would be great having them caught in the act.

Fair play to you for trying to do something about it.

LegacyUser

Thanks for your replies.

I was considering an anonymous tip-off. My parents and I have spoken to him on several occasions over the years and to no avail. He said that we don't understand and that hunting and digging gets "into your blood". He's right - I don't understand what he sees in it at all and it really, really, really upsets me that he is involved in this.

My parents are strict on the number of dogs he has so at least we have some control over that - some of his friends have up to twenty dogs in tiny little spaces who are only allowed out once a week. Sometimes they are not fed properly as it seemingly encourages them to hunt. There have been a lot of reports on badger baiting in the press recently but this hasn't put them off at all - in fact it's made them cross at people speaking out against them.

My worry about reporting it is that I don't want my brother to end up with a criminal record, even though I know he is doing something illegal and cruel. There are laws in place for this type of thing but sadly they don't seem to be enforced at all. I find it really shameful that it goes on and they go out every Sunday to do this. I would usually know where they are going so I would have that information to hand.

ziedth

Even though I am against all fourms of animal "Cruelty" (I have no problem with people Hunting/Fishing if they eat what they kill, but thats just me).

You have to be very carefull with regard to reporting him to the ISPCA, If it somehow got back to him or a family member then I'm sure you can imagine the effect it will have.

At the end of the day as cruel as it, lets not hold it up in the same light as dealing drugs to school kids.

Try suggesting something like shooting, at least that way its legal.

LegacyUser

They focus on badgers as it is a "better fight" betwen the badger and the dogs. The badger goes to ground and then they send in terriers after it. The terrier sometimes wears a locater so they can track it and sometimes not. They dig down then to unearth the dog and the badger and then ( I believe) the dogs kill it.

They are involved in activities like shooting and fishing etc but don't seem to get the same kick out of it.

I'm not vegetarian and I understand that hunting etc is often part of the country lifestyle but this is so cruel to both the dogs and the badgers.

twanda

Hi Op,

That's a terrible situation for you to be stuck in, but I think you know yourself what is the best thing to do here. What your brother is doing is cruel and against the law and needs to be stopped. You should give a tip off to the ISPCA and they will take it from there. Best of luck.

LegacyUser

siblingissue wrote: »

My worry about reporting it is that I don't want my brother to end up with a criminal record, even though I know he is doing something illegal and cruel.

Seriously - thats why so many criminals get away with what they do - because family members who know about it dont want them to end up with a record. Youre not responsible for your brother ending up with a record, he is - it could easily happen whether or not you report him.

In your situation not only would I anon tip off the Ispca (and maybe the guards) but Id also anon provide addresses for the people who are keeping dogs in cruel conditions.

sardineta

siblingissue wrote: »

Am going unreg for this.
Anything I do is likely to have repercussions for my family. Any advice that you have would be much appreciated.

Don't beat yourself up, it's all about degrees. Although you should ask yourself at what level of criminality you'd be prepared to cause said repercussions.

LegacyUser

Thank you for your replies.

I think that an anonymous tip-off is the way to go and would be for the best in the long run.

I appreciate you all taking the time to help me with this.

Cianos

It has been shown that an obsession with cruel acts towards animals can suggest deeper psychological issues that should be dealt with with a counsellor or a psychologist. He may have a lot of pent up anger or be harbouring some bad memories that inflicting pain on animals allows some kind of release.

So maybe there's a deeper problem that should be dealt with. Maybe not, but I'm simply putting it out there.

If he gets in to trouble with the law that may be a good time to get him in to some counselling too. ie if part of his 'punishment' was community service and counselling, he could deal with his problems and if he gets them sorted out he may no longer have much interest in badger baiting.

LegacyUser

why not consider shopping some of his mates too? break up the whole ring, and if, as you say, they dont even treat their dogs with the respect your brother does, its no bad thing.

consider alerting a non-government funded animal rights group too, like www.aran.ie

bubblewrap

How disgusting, I wouldn't think twice about calling and giving the police/animal rights people his name if that was my brother. Poor badgers.

prinz

The answer is clear - report him and his friends, (a) what they are doing is illegal (b) it's savage and (c) before their dogs get loose and being underfed, badly treated, and used to hunting and killing - attack a child...

or even an adult. Look at what happened in Sicily for god's sake. Do you need any more reason to report them immediately?

LegacyUser

Cianos wrote: »

It has been shown that an obsession with cruel acts towards animals can suggest deeper psychological issues that should be dealt with with a counsellor or a psychologist. He may have a lot of pent up anger or be harbouring some bad memories that inflicting pain on animals allows some kind of release.

So maybe there's a deeper problem that should be dealt with. Maybe not, but I'm simply putting it out there.

If he gets in to trouble with the law that may be a good time to get him in to some counselling too. ie if part of his 'punishment' was community service and counselling, he could deal with his problems and if he gets them sorted out he may no longer have much interest in badger baiting.

this is a very important point, think how you would feel in a couple of years time if your brother ends up taking this behaviour further and harms a human instead? i'm a vegetarian but even I can see there's a world of difference between 'hunting' and this type of activity, it really is disgusting and i would think points at deeper problems as pointed out above.

Tim Robbins

siblingissue wrote: »

Am going unreg for this.
Anything I do is likely to have repercussions for my family. Any advice that you have would be much appreciated.

I'd contact the ISPCA. I hate animal cruelty.

Beruthiel

siblingissue wrote: »

My worry about reporting it is that I don't want my brother to end up with a criminal record.

If he actually cared about doing something illegal then he wouldn't be involved in this.
Therefore put that aside and report him.
What he is doing is horrific and anyone who stands by and does nothing has to take some of that guilt.

cojomo2

he is getting pleasure/enjoyment from the barbaric/cruel treatment of small animals unable to defend themselves.

This is not healthy at all, inact it reminds me of the case of [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=+1]The Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs

sorry about the font change..didnt know how to spell it so had to copy and paste it..
[/SIZE][/FONT]

biko

There is hunting for meat and there is the thrill of the kill. Your brother needs to understand that killing for fun is not on. Even if it does mean a appearance in front of a judge.

LegacyUser

i hate to tell you this OP but people who are cruel to animals rarely stop there, if it continues, who is to say it won't be a person in the future?

something seriously wrong with a person who gets pleasure or enjoyment in seeing an animal or another person suffering.

Nothingcompares

pm me his address and I'll sort him out

Martyr

ever hear of the Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs? 3 teenagers from the ukraine who started out recording videos of killing animals and eventually progressed to killing 21 people...

you figure it out.

cowzerp

OP i have to say, fair play to you for trying to do something about this-remember if you dont do something your part of the problem..

its awful and people involved in it are sicko's.

i dont have a problem with hunting if the stuff is used, eating etc..
but this is just torture for the fun, thats the fact.

cojomo2

Martyr wrote: »

ever hear of the Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs? 3 teenagers from the ukraine who started out recording videos of killing animals and eventually progressed to killing 21 people...

you figure it out.

''killing'' doesnt justify ..they tortured their victims beyond belief keeping them alive for some time before death came about...as they got pleasure watching their victims suffer to the extreme...just as they did when they began this practice on small animals first...

Martyr

Yes, "baiting" is definitely too light a word here also.
The badger obviously goes through alot of pain and suffering before dying.

How people get enjoyment from that, i don't know.

twanda

siblingissue wrote: »

I find it really shameful that it goes on and they go out every Sunday to do this. I would usually know where they are going so I would have that information to hand.

Op, if you havn't already reported this, I strongly urge you to do so before they head out again this Sunday..

LivingDeadGirl

Please please please report this!

username123

OP - you need to report this. Not reporting it is only enabling it.

I understand that (a) you dont want to get your brother into trouble with the law - but he is the person responsible for doing something illegal so if it leads to a criminal record then thats his problem - not yours and (b) you probably worry that you will bring problems upon yourself if anyone finds out that you reported him - but you can report this anonymously so do that to keep your own identity a secret.

What your brother is doing is disgusting, cruel and illegal. It is a well known fact that cruelty to animals can indicate other more serious underlying issues. To be so inhumane as to torture and animal - its only one step further to hurt a human.

Please please report him.

Zaph

Nothingcompares wrote: »

pm me his address and I'll sort him out

Nothingcompares, you may wish to familiarise yourself with the part of the charter that forbids suggesting violence as a means to resolve an issue.

doctor evil

cojomo2 wrote: »

small animals unable to defend themselves.
[/B][/I][/SIZE][/FONT]

I don't condone badger baiting but feel the above should be cleared up. Badgers aren't really small and they can certainly defend themselves, a badgers claws can deglove a dogs jaw/neck. Badgers are cranky at the best of times.

OP report it to the relevant authorities, no animal rights groups as this could lead to your parents home being targeted. There is a difference between animal rights groups and animal welfare groups.

dudara

I grew up on a farm where we had several badger sets. My father never allowed any of the local lads to come onto our land to go lamping/dazzling/baiting. Hunting is quite common in rural situations and is not quite the act of depraved humanity that some posters seem to think it is.

Badger baiting IS illegal though, and therefore I would consider reporting your brother and his friends.

BTW:
1. I think that all the posters who are connecting badger hunting to future acts of violence against humans need to take a step back. As I previously said, it's quite common in the country. Badgers are perceived by many as carriers of disease (TB), therefore threatening the health of their cattle herd. Therefore many farmers feel justified in killing the animals. It is not done as an act of torture.

2. Just for the sake of clarity, badgers are not small animals. They are viciously strong and can easily snap bones with their bite. However, if you sit and watch a badger set, they are also quite charming.

LegacyUser

but there's a world of difference between hunting and baiting as your father obviously thought, hunting to get rid of an animal is one thing, baiting is done so the thugs can see the death of the animal up close and get some sort of thrill out of it.

cojomo2

doctor evil wrote: »

Badgers aren't really small and they can certainly defend themselves, a badgers claws can deglove a dogs jaw/neck. Badgers are cranky at the best of times.

.

yes but if im not wrong this isnt a case of 1 badger vs. 1 dog? Ofcourse the badger will try defend itself but this will not change the fact that it will eventually be ripped apart in a gruesome mannor..if it does manage to deglove a dogs jaw/neck, there will be 5 or 6 more dogs that will sort it out...

regardless if the animal is able to defend itself or not this is totally cruel and only deranged individuals would enjoy this act..