Is the die cast for Horgan and Dempsey?

thomond2006

Shaggy and Dempsey have suffered the most since DK's arrival as IRreland coach. Is thre any real chance for those two to get back into the mix, should they just bite the bullet and retire?

Does the same go for Quinny as well?

old boy

retire with dignity

Bounty Hunter

Honestly I dont think its DK as much as any new coach would have made the same move, there are better or younger players ahead of them now, they were good servants and players for Ireland but I think their time has now passed

Stealdo

I'd imagine we won't see either in an Irish shirt again. Two great servants to our national team and both have provided great memories. The standouts probably being Twickenham '04 for Girve and '06 for Shaggy. (Closely shading their tries in the '07 England game)

I always took the opposite view of 'retire with dignity' when it comes to internationals. I think retiring from international (except I guess to lengthen your club career for financial reasons) is a bit self indulgent. If you're called on by the international team coach you should make yourself available to them, if they believe there are 22 better men you should wish them luck and get behind them.

NickNolte

To be fair, I think Dempsey is still playing some good rugby. He's always been a safe pair of hands and still reliable for Leinster. I don't even remember the last time Horgan impressed me.

soundsham

Retire Gracefully

end of story

Sandwich

NickNolte wrote: »

I don't even remember the last time Horgan impressed me.

I do. Against Leicester, when he chased down and caught Geordan Murphy who thought he was cantering for a try in the RDS.
Certainly no way back for Dempsey.
And probably Horgan, but surprised at how quickly he has fallen off the radar.

NickNolte

Sandwich wrote: »

I do. Against Leicester, when he chased down and caught Geordan Murphy who thought he was cantering for a try in the RDS.
Certainly no way back for Dempsey.
And probably Horgan, but surprised at how quickly he has fallen off the radar.

I don't remember the last time he impressed me for the course of a game. Personally I feel Dempsey is still a safe enough bet but there's too much competition now. Retiring is probably not a bad idea!

barnesd

soundsham wrote: »

Retire Gracefully

end of story

Why should they? Keep playing for their province and that's it.

[Jackass]

It's not all about the Irish side to be honest. Neither player can get in the Leinster team so there is absolutely no reason why they would be in the national team ahead of players starting for their province / club and doing well.

Horgan and Dempsey still have a massive amount to offer Leinster and I'm sure if the likes of Bowe / Kearney were injured and or they were starting full time for Leinster they would be back in the mix, so I would love to see both stay on for another couple of years. Horgan has just lost all form, where as Dempsey is playing superbly when he get's a chance, he just happens to have arguably the best northern hempisphere full-back ahead of him, so it's not easy to get game time!!

up them Schteps

[Jackass] wrote: »

It's not all about the Irish side to be honest. Neither player can get in the Leinster team so there is absolutely no reason why they would be in the national team ahead of players starting for their province / club and doing well.

Horgan and Dempsey still have a massive amount to offer Leinster and I'm sure if the likes of Bowe / Kearney were injured and or they were starting full time for Leinster they would be back in the mix, so I would love to see both stay on for another couple of years. Horgan has just lost all form, where as Dempsey is playing superbly when he get's a chance, he just happens to have arguably the best northern hempisphere full-back ahead of him, so it's not easy to get game time!!

I agree completly. Why should they retire? Dempsey was always solid (Although I always preferred Murphy as Irish FB) but Kearney is on fire and just as good, if not better under the high ball! With that, Fitzgearld and Kearney are still very young too, and this bodes well for them, injury wise, the body recovers faster from knocks!

And Fitzgearld is a handful for all teams so far. Lets see how he deals with Shane Williams this weekend!

zAbbo

Sandwich wrote: »

I do. Against Leicester, when he chased down and caught Geordan Murphy who thought he was cantering for a try in the RDS.

I was at this game, and I've seen the same opinion posted here before.

Murphy took a huge knock about 5mins before this, and had a strapped knee - he was visibly struggling while busting his ass to run.

Hardly cantering in for a try!

You can see the video here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edxDBi5f26U

Horgan does well to chase back, one of the few times this season where he has shown some real effort and got rewarded.

Not having a go at you, just sometimes posters bend the truth a little to suit themselves.

anonymous_joe

They;re both older lads, but I wouldn't call either past it.

In Horgan's case he's been a bit off form, but I've faith in him coming back into things a bit more.

[Jackass]

zAbbo wrote: »

I was at this game, and I've seen the same opinion posted here before.

Murphy took a huge knock about 5mins before this, and had a strapped knee - he was visibly struggling while busting his ass to run.

Hardly cantering in for a try!

You can see the video here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edxDBi5f26U

Horgan does well to chase back, one of the few times this season where he has shown some real effort and got rewarded.

Not having a go at you, just sometimes posters bend the truth a little to suit themselves.

It was last season.

But not only does Horgan chase down Murphy, he outpaces everyone on the pitch, including the support runners, to get back and make the tackle, then comes back infield and makes another try saving tackle, then on 31 seconds on that video, you will see Horgan then drive over the ball and secure possesion for Leinster and clear their lines.

Absolutely world class stuff. He hasn't done anything of the sort this season, but that was as good play from a winger from a defensive point of view that you will see anywhere in any competition, amazing stuff.

And little excuses like Murphy wasn't running fast etc. etc. I don't buy into it...Tuilagi isn't exaclty a slow player and look how far behind him Horgan starts and steams past him as Tuilagi's expression on his face is just trying to keep up before he gets the ball to run in and Horgan gets back over to him...brilliant stuff.....

Put it this way, if Horgan didn't make that running, Murphy was in under the posts, cause no one else got near him.

duckysauce

knackers yard for them unless theres a few crazy injurys, wouldnt rule quinny out ,gives away far too many penaltys though love the way he plays, annoys the hell out of anyone he plays

Sundy

I honestly think ruling any player out is pretty pathetic. If horgan is back to his devestating best come the 6 nations next year well then he should be in the squad.

A country with such a small player pool cannot afford to ignore players whatever their age especially if there on form.

A perfect example of this would be Victor Costello who came back from the so called knackers yard in the twlight of his career to play a roll in WC2003

twinytwo

thomond2006 wrote: »

Shaggy and Dempsey have suffered the most since DK's arrival as IRreland coach. Is thre any real chance for those two to get back into the mix, should they just bite the bullet and retire?

Does the same go for Quinny as well?

If they are good enough then they will....

Darlie

We've seen the best of both, of all three if we're still including Quinny. Even when you look outside the current international 22, you've the likes of Earls (who DK would probably pick at FB ahead of Dempsey and wing instead of Horgan) lurking.
No need to retire from the international fold though. Keep plugging away with the province until the body tells you to go, and if another cap or two fall their way then they deserve it.

Tim Robbins

soundsham wrote: »

Retire Gracefully

end of story

I think it would be better for Irish rugby if players considered going to Connaught rather than retiring. We don't have a massive pool of professional players here so it's better that players that are capable of playing professional rugby do.

anonymous_joe

Sundy wrote: »

I honestly think ruling any player out is pretty pathetic. If horgan is back to his devestating best come the 6 nations next year well then he should be in the squad.

A country with such a small player pool cannot afford to ignore players whatever their age especially if there on form.

A perfect example of this would be Victor Costello who came back from the so called knackers yard in the twlight of his career to play a roll in WC2003

In fairness our player pool is the same size as Wales', similar to New Zealand and Italy's and double Scotland's.

The problem here is the innate paradox of sporting fans - under Eddie O'Sullivan guys like Horgan and Dempsey were stuck with out of loyalty and faith, and we all hated it, because it stunted the development of the next batch of players. Now we wonder if their experience combined to a bit of form would make them valuable again.

Long story short, Kidney has almost certainly been told to develop a World Cup squad as well as try and win tournaments. If we win this Grand Slam, it wouldn't surprise me if a much younger team gets picked next year and we finish third or fourth, having left out guys like O'Gara, O'Driscoll, etc to allow them rest and the youngsters develop.

Guys like Horgan, Dempsey and Quinlan (and a whole host of others) are still very good rugby players, and could quite conceivably return to the international fold, but obviously only on the basis of form.

Right now, Bowe is outplaying Horgan, Kearney and Murphy, Dempsey, and Ferris is a lot better than Quinlan. That could easily change.

Gijoe

This is ridiculous cr@p talk about retiring with dignity. The 2 players could easily be back in an Ireland jersey next year. Horgan is 31 FFS and still has a lot to offer. Dempsey is a bit older but could still fill in if needed.

I would be happy with Horgan taking over from Bowe if he was needed - I find it hard to think of a game he let Ireland down in. And while he hasn't been exceptional this year, he could easily have a stormer in the HEC after this and even the next 2-3 seasons.

Not used this year doesn't mean they are finished.

"Retire with dignity" - rubbish

Aidric

I've never been a fan of Dempsey so he's no loss in my eyes, Horgan on the other hand could do a job if needed, wouldn't write him off just yet.

both still good players.

Horgan offers something no other winger we have has.He isnt in the best form but could easily start tearing it up again.

bleg

if they perform better than the incumbents i'd say they may be recalled