Stats - Relationship between L-drivers & road accidents

djt0607

Hi,

I am a learner driver. I have a car which is parked outside my house for 5 days of the week doing nothing as, with the new l-driver laws, I need to wait until a family member (all of which have fully licenses) will sit beside me. This can only happen on the weekend as i work full time monday to friday. I am getting increasingly frustrated with this situation and am getting ever closer to hoping into the car and just going out on my own.

However, now that i have that off my chest, I watch the news alot and have heard alot of stories regarding car crashes in ireland. However, what has ALWAYS never been mentioned is whether the drivers involved in the crash were fully-qualified or learners and also their age-range.

Can anyone point me in the direction, or tell me here, some statistics (if they exist) which detail the relationship between road accidents and learner drivers/fully qualified drivers?

Thanks.

Dan.

Alanstrainor

i'm not too sure whether such stats exist, but you most certainly do hear of fatal crashes involving Learner Permit drivers. However this shouldn't make a difference, it's quite simple, inexperience on the road is enough to drastically increase your chances of an accident, you don't need stats to tell you that. Also there's the fact that there are far more fully licensed drivers on our roads, which means that statistically there will be more accidents by fully licensed drivers on the roads due to the sheer number of fully licensed drivers vs. learner permit holders.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

NukaCola

djt0607 wrote: »

Hi,

I am a learner driver. I have a car which is parked outside my house for 5 days of the week doing nothing as, with the new l-driver laws, I need to wait until a family member (all of which have fully licenses) will sit beside me. This can only happen on the weekend as i work full time monday to friday. I am getting increasingly frustrated with this situation and am getting ever closer to hoping into the car and just going out on my own.

However, now that i have that off my chest, I watch the news alot and have heard alot of stories regarding car crashes in ireland. However, what has ALWAYS never been mentioned is whether the drivers involved in the crash were fully-qualified or learners and also their age-range.

Can anyone point me in the direction, or tell me here, some statistics (if they exist) which detail the relationship between road accidents and learner drivers/fully qualified drivers?

Thanks.

Dan.

Why not apply for the test?
If you think your not ready for it I wouldnt be so confident in jumping in the car alone?
A lot of new learners complain about the new law but a lot of them dont seem to do much about it, when the law came in we were given a good bit of notice, i applied for the test (waiting times were slashed) and passed like a lot of other learners at the time.
Remember the new law only effected second provisional drivers, all other provisional drivers were never allowed to drive alone so if your on your first permit its not new and if your on your second third etc why havent you done your test yet?
What difference will stats make, learners are not as experienced as fully licensed drivers with 2 plus years and are more at risk you dont need stats just common sense

djt0607

Firstly, thanks for your replies. I applied for my test about 4 months ago. I have a car of my own, which does not as yet have an nct and i am investing alot of money in it to get it up to scratch for the nct in order to be able to take my test in it; so i dont think my commitment to wanting to take my driving test (and pass it) can be questioned.

What I am more interested in knowing is the statistics between learner drivers and road accidents. I would be taking a wild guess here, but from articles in the newspaper to reports on the news/radio, I would say that very few road accidents involved learner drivers, even before the new licensing laws came into offect that did not allow any learner driver drive unaccompanied.

Why I want to find out if there is a statistic which covers these details is because I speak to alot of people, some members of political parties, and would like to be able to bring up this statistic. If the statistic shows that a very minor percentage of accidents on our roads involve learner drivers, then clearly it shows that learner drivers are being victimised for road accidents which clearly did not involve them.

I understand that this is the way the law is in most countries, but if the stats go in favour of learner drivers not being involved in alot of road accidents, then wheres the problem?

Dampsquid

It would be very easy for the government to produce stats showing learner drivers cause more accidents than more experienced drivers...

The reason they dont, is because the stats dont show that.

they come out with something like, young drivers are involved in more accidents... probably ture, but there are probably more young drivers on the road, and they would certainly be on the road more often as older people, therefore more likely to be in an accident.

Wishbone Ash

djt0607 wrote: »

I would say that very few road accidents involved learner drivers

If learner drivers were involved in very few claims, I'm sure motor insurance companies would be reducing premiums to learner drivers and loading licenced drivers.

You must also bear in mind that most more experienced drivers will make a claim whereas many learner drivers, in similar circumstances, will not. Therefore the amount of claims made by learners is artifically low.

Approx 80% of drivers have a licence to drive and will average more miles than a learner. Therefore, licenced drivers are probably going to be involved in more accidents. To make an accurate comparison, it would need to be done on a pro rata per mile basis

djt0607 wrote:

even before the new licensing laws

What new licensing laws?

djt0607

sorry by "licensing laws", im refering to the new law that anyone on a provisional license cannot drive unaccompanied.

Wishbone Ash

djt0607 wrote: »

sorry by "licensing laws", im refering to the new law that anyone on a provisional license cannot drive unaccompanied.

They were never allowed to drive unaccompanied except when on a 2nd permit in category B. Those on 1st, 3rd and subsequent permits/provisionals have been legally required to be accompanied for many years.

NukaCola

djt0607 wrote: »

I understand that this is the way the law is in most countries, but if the stats go in favour of learner drivers not being involved in alot of road accidents, then wheres the problem?

Your making very little sense here, learner permit holders must drive with an experienced driving license holder, also there are much more fully licensed drivers in comparison to learner permit drivers, therefore learners should statistically have a lower accident rate by default. So then you want to drive on your own with no restrictions as a learner? Wheres the problem? Are you serious?

NukaCola

djt0607 wrote: »

I applied for my test about 4 months ago. I have a car of my own, which does not as yet have an nct and i am investing alot of money in it to get it up to scratch for the nct in order to be able to take my test in it; so i dont think my commitment to wanting to take my driving test (and pass it) can be questioned.

I think it can be questioned. Applying for the test is the easy bit. 4 months? You could have 2 tests done in that time. Why not take the test in an instructors car?

ztoical

djt0607 wrote: »

Firstly, thanks for your replies. I applied for my test about 4 months ago. I have a car of my own, which does not as yet have an nct and i am investing alot of money in it to get it up to scratch for the nct in order to be able to take my test in it;

wait in your first post you said your car was sitting outside doing nothing and you were fighting the urge to go out and drive alone now your saying said car doesn't have it's NCT - so not only are you thinking about driving alone but driving in car thats not certified as fit for the road?

Regarding stats as a couple of people have said it would be very hard to compare stats of leaner drivers to licensed drivers given the amount of fully licensed drivers and the increased distances they are driving compared to learners. Compare myself, on a full license for a year and my brother on a first permit - I drive from Kilkenny to Dublin nearly every day and back and my brother has prob driven maybe 10 km in a week. Now thankfully so far neither one of us has been in an accident but given I spend 4 hours a day in my car and he spends an hour a week I have more chances to be in accident then him so all stats would show is what poor people are stuck driving the most. Wishbone has brought you a very good fact that if learner drivers were safe, and full licensed drivers not, then the insurance rates would be the opposite of what they are. Insurance companies only care about making money not giving learners a hard time like people seem to think.

If you were to compare it to learning something else like say skiing. Deaths/accidents from skiing I'd say are mainly people who've been skiing for awhile so one could assume from that stat a learner was a safer better skier but it's because learners would be kept on learner slopes until they were ready for the mountain and have little chance of having an accident while learning.

Gauge

When did driving become a right as opposed to a priviledge?

sxt

I would guess that the vast majority of road deaths/crashes are due to excessive speed /driving under the influence/ tiredness or a combination of these.

I don't think having a learner permit vs a full driving liecense makes a difference under these scenarios.

Cuddlesworth

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If learner drivers were involved in very few claims, I'm sure motor insurance companies would be reducing premiums to learner drivers and loading licensed drivers.

You make the assumption that insurance company's don't also factor what they can get away with loading on certain market customers in order to drive down prices on larger ones.

Wishbone Ash

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You make the assumption that insurance company's don't also factor what they can get away with loading on certain market customers in order to drive down prices on larger ones.

It could be argued that you are making the assumption that they do.

It could also be argued that artifically loading learner drivers to reduce costs to experienced drivers is counterproductive as it may deter potential new drivers from getting on the road.

Many insurance companies appear not to want any business from learner drivers and seem to prefer customers to be over 25 with a full licence. If more profit was to be made from learners why do they appear to be reluctant to quote for them?

Simon Jester

Waiting 4 months for a test is a disgrace, You should have asked your employer for a letter though at this stage it would probably have little or no benefit.

As for the learner driver safety question, I would check the RSA website, they probably have a graph somewhere (though it is probably skewed to support the legislation they want introduced)

http://www.rsa.ie/Home/upload/File/GDL%20Consultation%20WEB.pdf

NukaCola

Simon Jester wrote: »

As for the learner driver safety question, I would check the RSA website, they probably have a graph somewhere (though it is probably skewed to support the legislation they want introduced)

http://www.rsa.ie/Home/upload/File/GDL%20Consultation%20WEB.pdf

I really dont get people sometimes, the rsa bring in legislation to bring learning to drive in line with the rest of europe and this is what they get, the stats have been done in various countries, what difference does it make, learners are less experienced than fully licensed drivers that have held their license for 2 years are more, thats common sense you do not need stats. People want RSA to act in road safety and when they do bring it in this is what happens.

Simon Jester

My problem with the RSA is that they are incompetent. They want to introduce more legislation, giving them more power while they prove themselves unable to provide services that are already their responsibility.

NukaCola

Simon Jester wrote: »

They want to introduce more legislation, giving them more power

What are you on about? Power?
They are introducing more legislation to bring ireland in line with other european countries with Learning to drive. The RSA arent the best that i know, however they are moving in the right direction.

Simon Jester

Moving in the right direction?

The waiting list has doubled in the past 3 months.

NukaCola

Simon Jester wrote: »

Moving in the right direction?

The waiting list has doubled in the past 3 months.

I was talking about them bringing in legislation i never mentioned test times.

Permabear

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soundlad

hey all . i am a learner driver who has applied for test. i see both sides to the argument. its hard to find people to come out and drive with you all time. i have applied for my test and would love to be out getting more practise and all but its not always possible because hard to get people to come out and there are only so much driving lessons you can afford. did i read somewhere that if you applied for your test you can drive by yourself or was i dreaming . pm me pleaee and let me know

mumblin deaf ro

I emailed the RSA for the stats a few months back and they sent me the following for 2007:

Licensed drivers in collision

Learner: 39 Killed; 118 seriously injured
Full licence: 253 killed; 599 seriously injured.

Obviously this doesn't reflect who was at fault; just who was involved. Also there are more fully licensed drivers on the road than learners.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.