Garda Protection

Burnt

Hi Guys, I'm not a regular here; I was drawn by the posting of the GRA poster
in a different forum, and not familiar with Garda procedure or training so please
bear with me.

After looking at the posters I was curious as to how much training to Gardai receive
in defence without weapons and the control of suspects; is it regularly practice?

If this amounts to very little or not it's not regularly practiced, do Gardai privately
practice martial arts or sports to supplement this? I was thinking that the likes of
Judo, Wrestling or even MMA would be worth considering, as they do not require
the striking of a suspect and are practice in an "alive" enviorment.

Eru

Burnt wrote: »

Hi Guys, I'm not a regular here; I was drawn by the posting of the GRA poster
in a different forum, and not familiar with Garda procedure or training so please
bear with me.

After looking at the posters I was curious as to how much training in defense
without weapons and control of suspects and is it regularly practice?

If very little or not regularly do Gardai privately practice martial arts or sports
to supplement this? I was thinking that the likes of Judo, Wrestling or even
MMA would be worth considering, as they do not require the striking of a suspect
and are practice in an "alive" enviorment.

Not enough but you use it all the time in work so therefore will usually develope some techniques that suit and work.

No martial art is practiced an a 'live' environment. They are practiced in controled environments with referees, rules and doctors on hand against an apponent thats either trainign with you or fighting you to win a sporting competition, not to actual kill you. You also cannot give a suspect a flying kick to the head or use a lot of the strikes that come with martial arts.

Having said that many do train in something or other and there will be aspects that can be applied to Garda work but not a lot

DeVore

Do you get training in any form of unarmed combat?

DeV.

Esel

Eru wrote: »

You also cannot give a suspect a flying kick to the head...

I will sleep more soundly knowing that! Thanks.

deadwood

DeVore wrote: »

Do you get training in any form of unarmed combat?

DeV.

We're also skilled at running up behind someone standing still in a gym who leaves their hands hanging loosely by their sides and lets you make a few attempts at putting them in a gooseneck hold.

(Note to social deviants - tap the floor three times and the guard has to let you go. It's in the rules)

vasch_ro

DeVore wrote: »

Do you get training in any form of unarmed combat?

DeV.

1 day in many cases and not adequate by any stretch, interestingly enough many moons ago I organised an afternoon session with John Kavanagh (irelands only Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Blackbelt) with a group of us from Stations south of inner city Dublin in the ISR matrix and i know everyone that attended really enjoyed that afternoon , plus we got to test our skills in "live" enviroment, everyone thought that one session was superior to anything they had learnt in co tip, and I believe people are still utilising some of the stuff they learnt.

vasch_ro

Eru wrote: »

No martial art is practiced an a 'live' environment.

most people would consider Wrestling, BJJ and Judo to be trained in a "live" enviroment and MMA to a lesser degree, slightly off topic I know .

For those of u unaware of "live" or aliveness means with regard to martial arts click here

donvito99

deadwood wrote: »

(Note to social deviants - tap the floor three times and the guard has to let you go. It's in the rules)

Classic.

refered to the Things you wish were common knowledge thread but aren't

DeVore

I train in Muay Thai now and I can tell you we dont do "crane style, flying head kicks". We do very realistic training for messy street fighting, primaraily clinch work with knees and elbows thrown in but its all about getting control of the opponents head and using that to stop him hurting you and if necessary "disabling" him (which is a nice way of saying a knee to the nose or kidneys/liver).

While the strikes are reduced power (and believe me if you get a knee to the kidney even at reduced power you wont be letting that happen again any time soon!), the clinch work is full on and rough.

I'm really quite surprised there isnt a course in BJJ or even Muay Thai for your guys. I strongly disagree with arming our police force with pepper spray or guns as standard but I strongly believe you should have the capacity to defend yourselves physically (there is a difference imho as I am not scared of a cop who knows BJJ cos its a "fight" thing, I am scared of a cop with pepper spray / tazer cos its a distance weapon).

DeV.
ps: What Vasch linked to is very true too, learning against someone who is not resisting is silly.

djtechnics1210

DeVore wrote: »

I'm really quite surprised there isnt a course in BJJ

There plenty off training in BJ(J) goes on down the Garda college i believe

Ah your right though we should be though some sort of self defence rather than poxy goose necks and thumb locks

BigDuffman

Eru wrote: »

No martial art is practiced an a 'live' environment. They are practiced in controled environments with referees, rules....

Not exactly true, the likes of systema, MCMAP, Krav Maga etc. are designed from the ground up to be a practical self defence system. I've been in a few situations where training on the mats transferred to situations on the pavement.

I always assumed the college gave practical modules on dis-arming, restraint and dis-arming.

FGR

Would Krav Maga not be a little more offensive than defensive?

eroo

ForegoneReality wrote: »

Would Krav Maga not be a little more offensive than defensive?

The aim of Krav Maga is to defend yourself, then make sure your opponent cannot strike again afaik.

the locust

Agreed, sometimes the best defence is a good offence

Would it be fair to say that they teach excessive force in Krav maga?
(I'm all for that by the way ) and I believe controlled aggression is important in a fight - but from a legal stand point - i.e. police self defence/intervention
- would you be justified on say for e.g. CCTV? hitting someone a volley of hard elbow/knee strikes etc... and hitting them when they are down?

I think thats why the college and other police prefer holds, locks, pressure points (non violent looking/discreet forms of defence) etc...

TheNog

the locust wrote: »

but from a legal stand point - i.e. police self defence/intervention
- would you be justified on say for e.g. CCTV? hitting someone a volley of hard elbow/knee strikes etc... and hitting them when they are down?

Absolutely not. There is no way a police officer would be safe from prosecution if he/she were to throw a volley of blows or indeed hit someone when they are on the ground.

If you need to strike first make sure it is absolutely necessary and the very last resort, secondly make the strike where it would count (not to the head or the groin area(if possible)), re-evaluate the situation and strike again but only if necessary.

Any strikes that are not necessary are deemed excessive force not reasonable force

deadwood

A guard, when cross examined about the alleged unnecessary use of force in arresting a violent prisoner was asked who struck the first blow:

"Judge, I hit him back first"