Neglect of our Yeats heritage

garth-marenghi

Anyone see the article in the Irish Times on Saturday describing a whole range of threats to our local Yeatsian heritage primarily brought about by the bad decision making and lack of priority towards the preservation of our Historical monuments and Yeats legacy. For example as part of the the draft development plan for Sligo and its environs there is a proposal to delist Markievicz House (once the home of Yeats grandparents) as a protected building.
Another shocking incident ,in the context of throwing money at private developers for footbridges, is the refusal of Sligo County Council to provide 6,000 Euro to purchase an original manuscript of The lake Isle of Innisfree.
Here is a synopsis, the full version is available in the print version of the paper.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0314/1224242850486.html

GG66

So they're at this again. I'd love to know who's driving this.

From the article in Irish Times

“Luckily Ben Bulben and Knocknarea are sacrosanct – they cannot delist the mountains or they might be at risk too,” she said.

Wish the same could be said about Cairns Hill. The CC refused planning for housing on it after the dept of environment and Bord Failte intervened. Yet the road designed to facilitate development of this land has been modified and included in the draft plan...

jimmmy

GG66 wrote: »

From the article in Irish Times

“Luckily Ben Bulben and Knocknarea are sacrosanct – they cannot delist the mountains or they might be at risk too,” she said.

True enough. I was showing some tourists around not too long ago and they were shocked at all the development spoiling the environment. I had to try and defend it, but climb Knocknarea and you will see the sprawl they mean....eg the poor planning filling otherwise green land ( which had been green for hundreds of thousands of years ) between Sligo and Ballisodare. Sligo was designated a gateway city and yet its population was allowed to fall ! Look at the view of Strandhill from Rosses Point, or Vice versa. Totally spoiled after the last 10 / 15 years.

tuppence

Yes hiding in the name of "progress" when in the most parts it was shortsighted greed.
I hope you didnt bring your friends on the best viewing spot for the lake isle of innisfree down near Cullentra, now ruined by the shocking sight of St Angelas College. In one singular blast of planning that building eroded the yeatsian legacy immeasurably. And of course, even if we were going to be greedy again about this (rather than proud of heritage which we should be) thats a tourist income that we are wrecking.

jimmmy

A number of different groups of tourists have all told me its scandalous what has happened all right. Showing them around the south side of lough gill now they always ask " Whats that big monstrosity over there ? " pointing at the accomodation blocks , poorly sited at St. Angelas.
As you correctly say, its a tourist income that we are wrecking. Strandhill is another place that people that has grown too much ...it was said the "village" is so spread out that it has the same footprint as a city of 40,000 abroad. What a blight on the landcsape it is from Rosses Point or from Sligo bay.

blackiebest

Have a read in todays champion of the letter written by a frequent visitor re; Lissadell house, says it all really

Essexboy

blackiebest wrote: »

Have a read in todays champion of the letter written by a frequent visitor re; Lissadell house, says it all really

Is there a link?

zonEEE

Sure take a look at Elsinore Lodge(Yeats house in sligo)

http://franklludwig.com/yeats/Yeats%20Country%20-%20Elsinore%20Lodge%203.jpg

http://franklludwig.com/yeats/Yeats%20Country%20-%20Elsinore%20Lodge%209.jpg

Essexboy

Yeats put Sligo on the map. Were it not for him, the county would be as obscure and imageless as Carlow or Louth.
Sligo people do not give a xxxx about him: I heard one old lady refer to him as "that old Protestant". The only memorials to him are a street on a council estate, a pub and a soccer team! In contrast, streets are named after long-forgotten and obscure local polticians eg Hughes Bridge.

il gatto

A town that can't provide a pot to p1ss in can hardly be expected to handle the legacy of a world reknowned poet. Give the council some credit. By the time they've visited far off climes on a "trade mission", got planning in a scenic location for a loyal voter, diddled their expenses and come to the conclusion Sligo "city" doesn't need a public toilet, per se, how can they possibly have time to encourage tourism? Sure they'd only make a mess because we've no bins, and besides, only local business' would benefit from them and what would the council get in return? Nowt. Just because the tax payer gives them 30 or 40+(+++) thousand a year, are we not being selfish to expect them to then spend time doing something in our interest? Shame on you. We pay them that money so they can facilitate their friends and run their own business on the side as a nice top up. "Public servants" is merely a figure of speech in Ireland, and we all know how our local politcians love a play on words, what with their oft lauded love of poetry and witticisms...doh!:rolleyes:

darealtulip

il gatto wrote: »

A town that can't provide a pot to p1ss in can hardly be expected to handle the legacy of a world reknowned poet.:

I had never ever heard of him till I moved here, I asked other people in germany, france, finland and holland and nobody ever heard of him. Never got any of his poems in school neither (non of us). Is he only known in the english speaking world?

Mrs. T heard of him being scottish.

jimmmy

darealtulip wrote: »

I had never ever heard of him till I moved here, I asked other people in germany, france, finland and holland and nobody ever heard of him.

How much poetry are people in those countries taught in languages other than their own ? Or even their own language?

I have to agree with another poster who wrote about it being a great pity that "streets are named after long-forgotten and obscure local polticians eg Hughes Bridge." Local politicians are know for three things ; going on junkets, failing to provide a public toilet in Sligo ( I read they have a hi-tech Portaloo leased at great expense but its in storage some place ) and naming roads + bridges after themselves.

TequilaMockingBird

jimmmy wrote: »

How much poetry are people in those countries taught in languages other than their own ? Or even their own language?

I have to agree with another poster who wrote about it being a great pity that "streets are named after long-forgotten and obscure local polticians eg Hughes Bridge." Local politicians are know for three things ; going on junkets, failing to provide a public toilet in Sligo ( I read they have a hi-tech Portaloo leased at great expense but its in storage some place ) and naming roads + bridges after themselves.

To be fair there is the Yeats statue outside the Ulster Bank, there is the Yeats Building opposite to Glasshouse, and every book shop in town is full of books on Yeats. Every year you see tours going around the town discussing Yeats and poetry. I'm not sure what more is required...? (I'm not into poetry, so maybe I'm missing something.)

As for the loos? Go into City Hall and demand to use the staff toilets. They would soon find a location for the portaloo in storage if they had to share their own facilities with the great unwashed.

darealtulip

jimmmy wrote: »

How much poetry are people in those countries taught in languages other than their own ? Or even their own language?

we get taught english from 10 year old upwards. We do a lot of literature and poetry in school in all languages (french, german and english some schools spanish too). Since reading is a very important way of learning a language. And in our own langauge we do a lot and it is all compulsery. The french and germans have a very good education system too. So I dont really understand your remark here. I had the same with burns, who is world famous according to scotts. We might be a bit english (as in england only, sorry dont like it either) and american orientated. So that was where my question came from, if he is famous in the english speaking world it would still be world famous.

I never heard of burns neither till I went to scotland.

il gatto

Top tier is Wordsworth or Keats. Next tier are Burns and Yeats. Not hearing really is a reflection on one's teacher rather than the education system of a country or the standing of the poets in question. It's a common for education in non English speaking countries to go to the source (England) as the font of the language. Places like the U.S., Canada, Australia etc. tend to take more interest in the nuances of Welsh, Scottish and Iriah literature. I personally don't like poetry, but I'm under no Sligo based illusions to the man's standing. He did receive a Nobel prize after all.

darealtulip

il gatto wrote: »

Top tier is Wordsworth or Keats. Next tier are Burns and Yeats. Not hearing really is a reflection on one's teacher rather than the education system of a country or the standing of the poets in question. It's a common for education in non English speaking countries to go to the source (England) as the font of the language. Places like the U.S., Canada, Australia etc. tend to take more interest in the nuances of Welsh, Scottish and Iriah literature. I personally don't like poetry, but I'm under no Sligo based illusions to the man's standing. He did receive a Nobel prize after all.

Yep we always had to read poetry in school which made it very unpopular. Dont like poetry myself but if Yeats is well know it should be used to advertise the region. I didn't even know he had a nobel price, learn something every day!

Essexboy

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

To be fair there is the Yeats statue outside the Ulster Bank, there is the Yeats Building opposite to Glasshouse, and every book shop in town is full of books on Yeats. Every year you see tours going around the town discussing Yeats and poetry. I'm not sure what more is required...? (I'm not into poetry, so maybe I'm missing something.)

As for the loos? Go into City Hall and demand to use the staff toilets. They would soon find a location for the portaloo in storage if they had to share their own facilities with the great unwashed.

The Yeats Building was presented to the Yeats Society by AIB in 1973, nothing to do with the local authority.
Like your idea about demanding to use the Town Hall loos.

tuppence

For the non poetry lovers theres always the art of his father and brother Jack B as below.
http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/irish-artists/jack-butler-yeats.htm
That along with W.B yeats being in the top 20 poets worldwide would have had any other authority ensuring their heritage remained safe. To delist Markievitz house is putting it at risk to being demolished in the Sligo development plan,(so first things first, needs a response by the Sligo public) not to provide a token amt to a 1st edition to ensure that our museum can share with our children, as well as not investing in Lissadel when it was offered to the state at a pittance...and the Yeats Summer school (as far as I know) is surviving mostly on its own bat. The list goes on......:(

Bllox

there are more important issues in the regoin then a poet, he hardly changed the world did he?

tuppence

Bllox wrote: »

there are more important issues in the regoin then a poet, he hardly changed the world did he?

There are few that can have those credentials. To make a lasting impression when you around, in the literary and political landscape, while referencing this region for many of his influences should be something that Sligo is proud of. He wrote of an Ireland that in many ways echoed the society up til recently we have been living in, of materialism and shallowness in the likes of September 1913.
Poets like any other artist have the potential to change mindsets, if they want to be changed. Bono irritates me, but he had an amazing impact on Bushes African policy for example.
Yes theres huge issues this region has to deal with, what were alot doing when we were in the high times, was it "adding the halfpence to the pence". Yes there should be sustainable industries that were created , instead we have empty retail parks.... Wonder what he'd say?
Even if we were not to look at the heritage value of Yeats (shocking I know) he is a "brand" for Sligo, a sustainable tourist brand, that is if we have anything left to market that hasnt been demolished and sold off.

Bllox

tuppence wrote: »

Poets like any other artist have the potential to change mindsets, if they want to be changed.

So they can only change minds if they want to be changed? So the artist does f*ck all because the peoples mind was ready anyway and takes the credit.

garth-marenghi

Bllox wrote: »

So they can only change minds if they want to be changed? So the artist does f*ck all because the peoples mind was ready anyway and takes the credit.

I dont think the issue is about whether or not Yeats or whoever takes sole responsibility for changing an individuals perspective or mindset. Of course it is ultimately down to the person themselves to make that change but they may be inspired by something Yeats has written.
In a similiar vain songwriters like Joe Hill, Bob Dylan or Bruce Springsteen tackle different political issues, Paul Robeson as a singer and actor used his talents to confont racism, segregation, facism, and supported those involved in the International Labour movement. There are lots of other such figures. Im sure most here could name a piece of art, song, poem, or play that has made us question our beliefs or inspired us in some way.
Of course the extent to which an artist (from whatever medium) has helped alter opinion can be contested but to say the artist does "f*ck all" is unfair.

here is a link to the yeats society with plenty of details and the man himself and activities organised by the group.

http://www.yeats-sligo.com/

slapbangwhallop

garth-marenghi wrote: »

Anyone see the article in the Irish Times on Saturday describing a whole range of threats to our local Yeatsian heritage primarily brought about by the bad decision making and lack of priority towards the preservation of our Historical monuments and Yeats legacy. For example as part of the the draft development plan for Sligo and its environs there is a proposal to delist Markievicz House (once the home of Yeats grandparents) as a protected building.
Another shocking incident ,in the context of throwing money at private developers for footbridges, is the refusal of Sligo County Council to provide 6,000 Euro to purchase an original manuscript of The lake Isle of Innisfree.
Here is a synopsis, the full version is available in the print version of the paper.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0314/1224242850486.html

I really coudlnt care less about Yates tbh!

Bllox

garth-marenghi wrote: »

I dont think the issue is about whether or not Yeats or whoever takes sole responsibility for changing an individuals perspective or mindset. Of course it is ultimately down to the person themselves to make that change but they may be inspired by something Yeats has written.
In a similiar vain songwriters like Joe Hill, Bob Dylan or Bruce Springsteen tackle different political issues, Paul Robeson as a singer and actor used his talents to confont racism, segregation, facism, and supported those involved in the International Labour movement. There are lots of other such figures. Im sure most here could name a piece of art, song, poem, or play that has made us question our beliefs or inspired us in some way.
Of course the extent to which an artist (from whatever medium) has helped alter opinion can be contested but to say the artist does "f*ck all" is unfair.

here is a link to the yeats society with plenty of details and the man himself and activities organised by the group.

http://www.yeats-sligo.com/

I was reacting on a comment, not making a point. The f*ck all bit was a reaction on a sentence in the post. If minds want to be changed they change anyway with or without the poet. Yeats doesn't rock my boat and in my eyes there won't be a lot lost if we don't hear anything from him again.

darealtulip

Bllox wrote: »

I was reacting on a comment, not making a point. The f*ck all bit was a reaction on a sentence in the post. Yeats doesn't rock my boat and in my eyes there won't be a lot lost if we don't hear anything from him again.

I dont like poetry at all but as a atraction for tourists it is great to have something like that, and that should be milked.

Essexboy

Bllox wrote: »

I was reacting on a comment, not making a point. The f*ck all bit was a reaction on a sentence in the post. If minds want to be changed they change anyway with or without the poet. Yeats doesn't rock my boat and in my eyes there won't be a lot lost if we don't hear anything from him again.

there won't be a lot lost if we don't hear anything from him again.

He died 70 years ago so we are unlikely to hear from him again - barring a seance!

GG66

I don't believe the point about the demolition of the house relates to whether or not you like Poetry or Yeats. It has wider consequences

i.e. The total disregard for our heritage and landscape by councilors/developers looking to make a profit from it.

• Why are they so keen to knock this building?
• Why are they so keen to build a roadway and housing estates on the crest of Cairns Hill?
• Why are they so keen to have the racecourse rezoned for development?
• etc. etc. etc.

Look where the last 15 years of developer influence over local and central government policy has got us. Ghost estates, ghost retail parks, banking crisis..

There is a central issue that this Yeats Building issue highlights. People need to put a stop to developer lead local planning, one issue at a time

tuppence

Essexboy wrote: »

there won't be a lot lost if we don't hear anything from him again.

He died 70 years ago so we are unlikely to hear from him again - barring a seance!

Hey you may have hit on a nice little marketing ploy for the region. Yeats speaks again!

(may see a small surge of emigration by all accounts)

jimmmy

darealtulip wrote: »

I dont like poetry at all but as a atraction for tourists it is great to have something like that, and that should be milked.

Maybe the local authority should have called the inner relief road or bridge after Yeats instead of after themselves / some minor politicians , who nobody knows ?

darealtulip

jimmmy wrote: »

Maybe the local authority should have called the inner relief road or bridge after Yeats instead of after themselves / some minor politicians , who nobody knows ?

Fair point, they should!

tuppence

jimmmy wrote: »

Maybe the local authority should have called the inner relief road or bridge after Yeats instead of after themselves / some minor politicians , who nobody knows ?

Now I wouldnt reckon am an expert on tourism but naming a concrete road after Yeats doesnt seem quite fitting as a draw to attract people in. In fact would it not be the direct antithesis of what he was about (a road named after a local politician might seem quite apt in the recent climate, if you think about it!) I would'nt be travelling any length to see a road. Some of the green areas that they are trying to adapt for recreational use on the shore of Lough Gill or something, a cruise or a bus trip round the scenic areas, might be best named after him.
In my view you need to protect the structures and resources first and then build on that. eg Theres plenty of local social enterprises that would create a use for a space such as Markievitz House that would have a benefit for local community and community at large if given a small grant to kick start. (thats presuming that the HSE does not want the premises anymore) Oh yes and employ people in the process.

darealtulip

tuppence wrote: »

Now I wouldnt reckon am an expert on tourism but naming a concrete road after Yeats doesnt seem quite fitting as a draw to attract people in. In fact would it not be the direct antithesis of what he was about (a road named after a local politician might seem quite apt in the recent climate, if you think about it!) I would'nt be travelling any length to see a road. Some of the green areas that they are trying to adapt for recreational use on the shore of Lough Gill or something, a cruise or a bus trip round the scenic areas, might be best named after him.
In my view you need to protect the structures and resources first and then build on that. eg Theres plenty of local social enterprises that would create a use for a space such as Markievitz House that would have a benefit for local community and community at large if given a small grant to kick start. (thats presuming that the HSE does not want the premises anymore) Oh yes and employ people in the process.

but for branding the name anything would be good, the more the better and the only way poet and painters suvive the time is by branding them. Look at all the dutch masters, nothing but brands. Nobody goes to rembrandt plein (Rembrandt square for the non dutch speakers) in the city i hate most (Amsterdam) But a lot of people know about it and make the connection. Every tourist goes over it same as the ugly bridge.

tuppence

darealtulip wrote: »

but for branding the name anything would be good, the more the better and the only way poet and painters suvive the time is by branding them. Look at all the dutch masters, nothing but brands. Nobody goes to rembrandt plein (Rembrandt square for the non dutch speakers) in the city i hate most (Amsterdam) But a lot of people know about it and make the connection. Every tourist goes over it same as the ugly bridge.

Re branding Sligo, Think I'd just drop the Gateway City malarky and go back to Sligo- Yeats country. Think it was that for some time (informally at least) til the celtic tiger tried to put a bulldozer through it. Back to that again might be a start on the right direction on the rebranding front..

il gatto

tuppence wrote: »

Re branding Sligo, Think I'd just drop the Gateway City malarky and go back to Sligo- Yeats country. Think it was that for some time (informally at least) til the celtic tiger tried to put a bulldozer through it. Back to that again might be a start on the right direction on the rebranding front..

But Sligo is the gateway. To Donegal. Have you not noyiced all the buses that stop at the Southern for one night on their way from Galway and Mayo to Donegal? Yes, we truly are a watering hole on the way to better places. The Sligo Tourist Office must be so proud:rolleyes:

darealtulip

il gatto wrote: »

But Sligo is the gateway. To Donegal. Have you not noyiced all the buses that stop at the Southern for one night on their way from Galway and Mayo to Donegal? Yes, we truly are a watering hole on the way to better places. The Sligo Tourist Office must be so proud:rolleyes:

LOL I always wondered why they called it gateway city, thanks for clearing that one up!;)

darealtulip

tuppence wrote: »

Re branding Sligo, Think I'd just drop the Gateway City malarky and go back to Sligo- Yeats country. Think it was that for some time (informally at least) til the celtic tiger tried to put a bulldozer through it. Back to that again might be a start on the right direction on the rebranding front..

Exactly, and maybe people even start to read him again!;)

tuppence

darealtulip wrote: »

Exactly, and maybe people even start to read him again!;)

Some of us never stopped. Obviously theres quite a few tho that were out the day they were doing him at school.:rolleyes:

starbelgrade

I've had people visiting us from the east & the midlands who I'd arranged to meet in town before coming back to the house. On more than one occasion, they have completely by-passed Sligo & ended up doing U-turns when they realised that they were halfway to Bundoran. It's easily done.

jimmmy

starbelgrade wrote: »

I've had people visiting us from the east & the midlands who I'd arranged to meet in town before coming back to the house. On more than one occasion, they have completely by-passed Sligo & ended up doing U-turns when they realised that they were halfway to Bundoran. It's easily done.

That happened you as well ? I have also come across people who completely by-passed Sligo & ended up doing U-turns when they realised that they were halfway to Bundoran. There needs to be a big sign on the inner relief road " Entrance to Sligo " or "Sligo town / city centre" or something like that.

starbelgrade

jimmmy wrote: »

That happened you as well ? I have also come across people who completely by-passed Sligo & ended up doing U-turns when they realised that they were halfway to Bundoran. There needs to be a big sign on the inner relief road " Entrance to Sligo " or "Sligo town / city centre" or something like that.

Or a statue of Yeats holding a billboard, saying "Blink and you'll miss it".

darealtulip

jimmmy wrote: »

That happened you as well ? I have also come across people who completely by-passed Sligo & ended up doing U-turns when they realised that they were halfway to Bundoran. There needs to be a big sign on the inner relief road " Entrance to Sligo " or "Sligo town / city centre" or something like that.

There is a sign on the dual garrigeway saying "welcome to sligo the gatway city" but then your not really in sligo yet. Its before the juction to the retrail park. A extra sign wouldn't do any harm just before the round about. Maybe change it into welcome to sligo yeats town would be better.

starbelgrade

darealtulip wrote: »

There is a sign on the dual garrigeway saying "welcome to sligo the gatway city" but then your not really in sligo yet. Its before the juction to the retrail park. A extra sign wouldn't do any harm just before the round about.

Careful now or you'll be moderated for bad spelling.

darealtulip

starbelgrade wrote: »

Careful now or you'll be moderated for bad spelling.

That was really bad aswell!! carriage way:o You can tell mrs.T wasn't here to correctme! And you were so quick I couldn't edit!!

starbelgrade

darealtulip wrote: »

That was really bad aswell!! carriage way:o You can tell mrs.T wasn't here to correctme! And you were so quick I couldn't edit!!

I won't mention the "gatway city" or the "retrail park" then! You gotta be quick off the mark 'round these parts.

tuppence

starbelgrade wrote: »

I won't mention the "gatway city" or the "retrail park" then! You gotta be quick off the mark 'round these parts.

Penicillin must be working then.;)

darealtulip

starbelgrade wrote: »

I won't mention the "gatway city" or the "retrail park" then! You gotta be quick off the mark 'round these parts.

LOL It's hard to type with big fingers! Now stop picking on the big guy!:D Or should I play the foreign card??

shellyriver

:P

slapbangwhallop wrote: »

I really coudlnt care less about Yates tbh!

Safe Bet to say that Mr Yates wasn't bad as Agriculture Minister:P

slapbangwhallop

shellyriver wrote: »

:P

Safe Bet to say that Mr Yates wasn't bad as Agriculture Minister:P

no no not our dearest rolly polly Ivan but the chavaminute Wine Bar chain!

shellyriver

Thanks for the clarification:P. Must go and recite Lake Isle of Innisfree there when in London.

Had a thought, maybe it should be put on Yeats Trail -- seeing that Lissadell is closed to public as a result of a legitimate claim which I think will result in a similar fate to one that has been exploded in Sligo.:D

I'd drink to that:cool:

garth-marenghi

Just to let people know who are interested in the delisting of Markievicz House as part of the Sligo and Environs Development Plan (and indeed any other issue to do with the plan) the final date for submissions and observations is Wednesday April 22nd at 4pm.
Here are the details. The list of Buildings that are been either delisted or added as protected structures are at the bottom of the page under the heading "rps" (record of protected structures)
http://www.sligococo.ie/sedp/

TequilaMockingBird

garth-marenghi wrote: »

Just to let people know who are interested in the delisting of Markievicz House as part of the Sligo and Environs Development Plan (and indeed any other issue to do with the plan) the final date for submissions and observations is Wednesday April 22nd at 4pm.
Here are the details. The list of Buildings that are been either delisted or added as protected structures are at the bottom of the page under the heading "rps" (record of protected structures)
http://www.sligococo.ie/sedp/

There are alot of links there to PDF files regarding RPS. I couldn't figure out which one to download. Am using crappy ISP so takes aaaaages, I need to be sure first.