Fitting the gym in around team training

nice_guy80

right, firstly before i start, i enjoy reading the topics on this forum. so many posters who give good information and advice

anyway, little problem after surfacing in the last 2 weeks... how do you fit weights training in with team training (gaa). not sure how to approach it

we're currently training tuesday and thursdays. tuesday on the pitch, thurs indoors doing circuits. we're not playing too many matches, but when we do it on a sunday

now i want to continue my weights training through the season as last year i didn't do it and i feel it was a huge factor in my declining form during the season

so basically, what is best way to approach training? would it be to do two day split, or do two full body workouts?
any advice appreciated. Cheers!!

thewools

Would need details on what currently you are / have been doing?
Reps + Sets and which exercises.

I would advise doing 1/2 max strength sessions a week now that you are back playing - basically doing heavy weights but only a few reps then do one rep (max). Also combine a bit of core work in between sets.

johnny_adidas

im in the same situation and was actually told the exact opposite to above
keep my reps up, not do heavy weights and no exercises that focus on the legs

reason given was that this work has been done up to this point to develop the strength, now is the time to build on the endurance and the speed while maintaining the muscle with the high reps with 60-75% rep max

will also be interested to see other peoples opinions

thewools

But by doing the lower reps of heavier weights you are working so that you can get more power in your jumps, explosiveness etc.

Sure you can do a maintainence period so that your strength doesnt drop which I assume you are doing - but if you want any gains from your weight training during the match playing period then you should go for higher weights.

Thats my logic anyways...

nice_guy80

Well, i'd be doing a split workout up to recently

day 1 - squat, press, pullups, upper arms, core
day 2 - deadlift, lunges, calf raise, shoulders, forearms

8-9 reps across most exercises. (don't criticise, its working for me!). I have been increasing weights progressively on the big lifts over past few months.

now team training is on tuesday and thursdays.

Vamoose Killers

One of the main reasons I stopped playing football this year.

nice_guy80

fair enough

but i started doing serious weights to improve my football/hurling. fed up getting pushed around!

so i want to try and keep it going through the season this year

Conditioned

While I don't necesarily disagree with any of the exercises you are doing bar calve raises which I believe you are just wasting your precious time with, this time would be better spent with a more productive exercise. GHR comes to mind and this would actually work the calves to a certain extent but would work more important muscles for your sport i.e. glutes and hams. The chances are your gym may not have one of these so this little rant is probably worthless! Anyway...

Its being done to death here to the point that people are fed up listening to it here but Mark Ripetoes starting strength program is what would benefit you most at your current stage of training. Regardless of your opinion of Rippetoe and his theories on exercise form there is no denying the starting strength programme works. Its not his programme as such, its being around thousands of years!! The old fable of Milos of Crotona is an example of how long linear progression has been about.

The 5 rep scheme also happens to be the quickest rep scheme I've seen work for gaining strength. I'm not saying you should rush out and buy his book but you should follow a programme similar to what he advises. Google starting strength it shouldn't be to hard to find it.

I beieve the biggest mistake footballers are making is choosing an advanced programme without building up a good level of strength first. It may take you one to two year before you'd move away from this programme depending on the level of strength you attain and the time you can give it.

You seem to have just two days to train but I believe that'll be fine. Remember to eat lots of protein, the biggest mistake I made starting off was not eating enough. If your playing but hurling and football as well as weights I'd imagine you calorie expenditure is going to be very high. Aim for 1gram of protein per pound of bodyweight, the carbohydrates and fats tend to look after themselves without you thinking too much about it.

nice_guy80

well, i had been going to the gym for 2-3 years. but never doing weights much, or compound lifts etc

i had a program put together for me by a friend who is a qualified instructor who does some personal training. was doing three day split (on/off) since the season ended last october

doing the calf raises as i want to have a good balance on my legs (and i've quite light legs as it is)

yeah, two eggs a day in sandwiches or a tin of tuna. two chicken breasts or 2 homemade steak burgers at dinner. lots of nuts for snacking etc

celestial

Conditioned wrote: »

Remember to eat lots of protein, the biggest mistake I made starting off was not eating enough. If your playing but hurling and football as well as weights I'd imagine you calorie expenditure is going to be very high.

How do you figure?

Conditioned wrote: »

Aim for 1gram of protein per pound of bodyweight, the carbohydrates and fats tend to look after themselves without you thinking too much about it.

I would say that the protein takes care of itself too. There is no real reason to be concerned about your protein intake and not getting enough, even if you are doing weights regularly.

rccaulfield

I do- Sunday=match or weights, Monday off, Tuesday=football training, Wednesday=weights training, Thursday=football training, Friday=weights training, Saturday=off.
Hope this helps-what club you with?

Conditioned

celestial wrote: »

How do you figure?



I would say that the protein takes care of itself too. There is no real reason to be concerned about your protein intake and not getting enough, even if you are doing weights regularly.

I found that I lost any weight I had gained once the football season started. The solution through trial and error was to take in more protein, taking in more carbohydrates didn't work because my protein intake was too not enough to begin with.

Take someone starting the gym they are more then likely taking in less than 100g of protein, they think there eating like a house but they might have no protein at breakfast as it either skipped or a cereal, possibly just tea and a biscuit at any of the breaks, maybe a sanwich with very little protein at lunch i.e. a tin slice of ham, and finsih up with dinner which may contain there largest portion of protein in the evening.

breaking down the OP's diet:
2 egg sandwiches 15g of protein
100g drained tin of tuna 30g of protein
2 chicken breasts lets say 60g of protein total
2 homemade steak burgers lets say 60g total
nuts lets say 20g
Thats a total of 185g of protein. Now thats not bad in my opinion if you weigh close to 185lbs but the OP has said its either eggs or tuna and I'd safely say I've been generous with the quantities of protein I've allowed. He also said it either egg sandwiches or a tin of tuna which would bring it down lower again.

My opinion is based on what has worked for me, you may have had sucess gaining size or strength or whatever your goal has been with a different diet but I have been sucessful with a high protein diet. I have found that you'll eat lots of carbohydrates anyway, mine tend to be mostly in the form porridge, vegetables and brown bread.

Transform

program looks ok just make sure that the weights are going up and train wednesday and friday with the wights - it thats too much then just do the weights on wednesday in a full body program (finish in under an hour and drop all unnecessary weights).

what are you currently squatting/deadlifting?

I would drop the lunges or squats and replace with glute ham rasie or machine leg curls as you do not have a good strong hamstring exericse and most footballers i deal with have terrible ham strength (more open to injury as a result)

nice_guy80

yeah, sometimes do the seated leg curl using a machine, depends on what state my hamstrings are in! I find the lunges good, once i'm not squatting that day. take protein shake 30 mins before a gym session

I alternate the protein in my sandwiches just for a bit of variety
realise that i also drink milk during the day - breakkie and dinner
some cheese on ryvita for snacks... everyone i know thinks i eat like a horse, but i rarely eat shiite

Conditioned

I agree that most footballers have weak hamstrings and this often results in injuries. But how about more one legged movements, pistols, step ups etc. Maybe not for someone new to weights training but certainly as a progression.

Something I've come across recently that makes perfect sense is a contribution by Mike Boyle to an article in T-Nation.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/mythbusters_vol_2

"Myth: Squats and deadlifts are all you need to work your core.
Mythbuster: Mike Boyle
If you look at how the body works, I think any reasonable person would see it's nearly impossible to work the core well enough with exercises like squats and deadlifts. Sure, you could develop the ability to hold heavy loads in place, but it wouldn't transfer over to everyday life, where you have to stabilize your core in a variety of motions.
Those movements change the mechanics of your pelvis completely.
Let's say you have your right foot on the ground, with your left foot stepping forward. Your pelvis is stabilized by your adductors on the inside of your right leg, your gluteus medius on the outside of that leg, and your quadratus lumborum on the left side of your lower back. These all work in unison to keep your pelvis level. It's entirely different when both feet are fixed on the ground and parallel to each other.
And while adding unilateral movements to your training is a step in the right direction, I still think you need some isolation work for your core.
Let's look at it in a different context. Some guys say you don't need to do direct biceps work if you're already doing chin-ups. But I don't think you'll find many bodybuilders who agree with that. They'd say you have to isolate your biceps with specialized exercises, in this case curl variations, and they'd be correct.
Same goes for the core. I think you need to isolate those muscles, as long as it's the right kind of isolation, like planks and ab-wheel rollouts.
So, getting back to the myth, pulling a lot of weight off the floor, or putting it on your back, will certainly develop functional strength. But it only applies to your ability to support that load in a bilateral stance. If your goal is to put those muscles in motion, you need to do more than squats and deadlifts. "

To be honest I would have been of the opinion at one stage that Squat, Deadlifts and the like would have been enough to work your core but I believe I was wrong in that thinking. With the amount of ostis pubis, gilmores groin and other groin injuries I'm now of the believe that Mike Boyles advice should be something that should be implemented in any footballers core routine or team training.

nice_guy80

planks - way ahead of ya. front and side, with superman raises. even close my eyes to test the auld balance out... absolute killer

Transform

Conditioned wrote: »

I agree that most footballers have weak hamstrings and this often results in injuries. But how about more one legged movements, pistols, step ups etc. Maybe not for someone new to weights training but certainly as a progression.

Something I've come across recently that makes perfect sense is a contribution by Mike Boyle to an article in T-Nation.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/mythbusters_vol_2

"Myth: Squats and deadlifts are all you need to work your core.
Mythbuster: Mike Boyle
If you look at how the body works, I think any reasonable person would see it's nearly impossible to work the core well enough with exercises like squats and deadlifts. Sure, you could develop the ability to hold heavy loads in place, but it wouldn't transfer over to everyday life, where you have to stabilize your core in a variety of motions.
Those movements change the mechanics of your pelvis completely.
Let's say you have your right foot on the ground, with your left foot stepping forward. Your pelvis is stabilized by your adductors on the inside of your right leg, your gluteus medius on the outside of that leg, and your quadratus lumborum on the left side of your lower back. These all work in unison to keep your pelvis level. It's entirely different when both feet are fixed on the ground and parallel to each other.
And while adding unilateral movements to your training is a step in the right direction, I still think you need some isolation work for your core.
Let's look at it in a different context. Some guys say you don't need to do direct biceps work if you're already doing chin-ups. But I don't think you'll find many bodybuilders who agree with that. They'd say you have to isolate your biceps with specialized exercises, in this case curl variations, and they'd be correct.
Same goes for the core. I think you need to isolate those muscles, as long as it's the right kind of isolation, like planks and ab-wheel rollouts.
So, getting back to the myth, pulling a lot of weight off the floor, or putting it on your back, will certainly develop functional strength. But it only applies to your ability to support that load in a bilateral stance. If your goal is to put those muscles in motion, you need to do more than squats and deadlifts. "

To be honest I would have been of the opinion at one stage that Squat, Deadlifts and the like would have been enough to work your core but I believe I was wrong in that thinking. With the amount of ostis pubis, gilmores groin and other groin injuries I'm now of the believe that Mike Boyles advice should be something that should be implemented in any footballers core routine or team training.

gosh mate i only do single leg work with beginners as most are out of alignment to begin with!!!

Squats and deadlifts are not an option for most of the people i deal with at first until i can help sort out the imbalances.

In regards to core work - yes i agree but the majority of injuries i have seen have been the result of primarily poor flexibility and not enough massage, art, or foam rolling. Doing more core work for the sake of it is not going to matter a dam if the individual has the flexibility of a plank of wood.

Maybe it would be a good idea to do sticky on optimal range of motion in most joints??