Lions 2009

Moncti48

Since the last one was locked and there is only 1 round of games left in this years 6 nation, it wont be long before the squad gets announced. So ive listed almost every player who has played in this 6 nations, i no i may have forgotton 1 or 2 but dont think theyll matter!!!!

1. Sheridan, Horan, Jenkins, Dickinson
2. Best, Flannery, Mears, Ford, Rees
3. Hayes, Murray, Vickery, Jones
4. DOC, Kenndy, Gough, Hines
5. POC, AW Jones, Borthwick
6. Ferris, Haskell, Jones, Strokosch, Croft
7. Williams, Wallace, Worsley, Barcley, Rees, Armitage
8. Heaslip, Easter, Powell, Taylor, Leamy

9. Peel, Blair, TOL, Stringer, Phillips, Ellis
10. ROG, Hook, Jones, Godman, Flood, Goode, Cipriani

11. Williams, Fitzgearld, Cueto, Evans
12. Henson, Darcy, Wallace, Flutey, Roberts, Morrison
13. BOD, Shanklin, Tindall, evans, Tait
14. Halfpenny, Bowe, Sackey, Danelli, Lewsey

15. Byrne, Armitage, Kearney, Patterson

Definates
Maybes
Wildcards!!!

Im not going to try and pick a team tho. I feel they could be pretty week at 8 and 14. I no there is Heaslip and Powell, but if anything was to happen, e.g. Heaslip get injured, i havnt been impressed with Powell in the 6N, he seems to have been found out by the other teams, hense why if fit again I could see Leamy been used as unlike Powell he has a few more aspects to his game. However most likely I can see 6. Ferris 7. Williams 8. Jones so then no need for an extra back row to be brought

at 14, Halfpenny and bowe seem to be the only to options, unless, the back line is 11. Kearney 14. Williams 15. Byrne. not 100% sure that would work.


If anybody wants to add or pick apart the selection feel free. Dont turn it into an arguement and get it locked tho;)

A friend was saying yesterday that the appointment of Gatland,Edwards and Mcgechan will spring a ridiculous team.

I think he could be right,If there is any tight calls then Wasps/Welsh and English players will get preference.
I wouldnt be shocked to see only O'Connell and Bod making the starting team tbh.

Moncti48

Ivy Sour Fluff wrote: »

A friend was saying yesterday that the appointment of Gatland,Edwards and Mcgechan will spring a ridiculous team.

I think he could be right,If there is any tight calls then Wasps/Welsh and English players will get preference.
I wouldnt be shocked to see only O'Connell and Bod making the starting team tbh.

unless he goes for reddan at SH!!! ridiculous call i no, but i would heve to agree with ur statement

twinytwo

how in the name of god is henson a defo???

twinytwo

Moncti48 wrote: »

Since the last one was locked and there is only 1 round of games left in this years 6 nation, it wont be long before the squad gets announced. So ive listed almost every player who has played in this 6 nations, i no i may have forgotton 1 or 2 but dont think theyll matter!!!!

1. Sheridan, Horan, Jenkins, Dickinson
2. Best, Flannery, Mears, Ford, Rees
3. Hayes, Murray, Vickery, Jones
4. DOC, Kenndy, Gough, Hines
5. POC, AW Jones, Borthwick
6. Ferris, Haskell, Jones, Strokosch, Croft
7. Williams, Wallace, Worsley, Barcley, Rees, Armitage
8. Heaslip, Easter, Powell, Taylor, Leamy

9. Peel, Blair, TOL, Stringer, Phillips, Ellis
10. ROG, Hook, Jones, Godman, Flood, Goode, Cipriani

11. Williams, Fitzgearld, Cueto, Evans
12. Henson, Darcy, Wallace, Flutey, Roberts, Morrison
13. BOD, Shanklin, Tindall, evans, Tait
14. Halfpenny, Bowe, Sackey, Danelli, Lewsey

15. Byrne, Armitage, Kearney, Patterson

Definates
Maybes
Wildcards!!!

Im not going to try and pick a team tho. I feel they could be pretty week at 8 and 14. I no there is Heaslip and Powell, but if anything was to happen, e.g. Heaslip get injured, i havnt been impressed with Powell in the 6N, he seems to have been found out by the other teams, hense why if fit again I could see Leamy been used as unlike Powell he has a few more aspects to his game. However most likely I can see 6. Ferris 7. Williams 8. Jones so then no need for an extra back row to be brought

at 14, Halfpenny and bowe seem to be the only to options, unless, the back line is 11. Kearney 14. Williams 15. Byrne. not 100% sure that would work.


If anybody wants to add or pick apart the selection feel free. Dont turn it into an arguement and get it locked tho;)

Why would you put a left legged kicker and the best man for the high ball on the left wing?? and play williams out of position on the right?

Stealdo

OP - how many players do you think are going? There's no way 6 props for instance will go. There'll be 35/6 players in the case of 36 the likely make up is 5 props (2 LH, 3 TH), 3 Hookers, 4 Locks, 7 BR's (possibly one that can cover the 2nd Row), 3 SH's, 3 OH's, 4 Centres, 4 Wingers, 2 FB's and a utility back.

Marcus Horan has little or no hope, Hayes has little or no hope, Ford is possibly ahead of both Best and Flannery, although they both have a shot. Don't underestimate the politics of the situation either. A certain number of English players will go in tight calls because there's going to be so few of them. I'd say Sheridan will benefit from that (and a superior reputation) over Horan for instance. Hayes unfortunately is not respected at all outside Ireland. (I hope he'll have Stephen Jones comment about breaking the record for standing beside a ruck with his hand in the air plastered to every wall in his house for the next week).

twinytwo

Stealdo wrote: »

OP - how many players do you think are going? There's no way 6 props for instance will go. There'll be 35/6 players in the case of 36 the likely make up is 5 props (2 LH, 3 TH), 3 Hookers, 4 Locks, 7 BR's (possibly one that can cover the 2nd Row), 3 SH's, 3 OH's, 4 Centres, 4 Wingers, 2 FB's and a utility back.

Marcus Horan has little or no hope, Hayes has little or no hope, Ford is possibly ahead of both Best and Flannery, although they both have a shot. Don't underestimate the politics of the situation either. A certain number of English players will go in tight calls because there's going to be so few of them. I'd say Sheridan will benefit from that (and a superior reputation) over Horan for instance. Hayes unfortunately is not respected at all outside Ireland. (I hope he'll have Stephen Jones comment about breaking the record for standing beside a ruck with his hand in the air plastered to every wall in his house for the next week).

But as we know what stephen jones has to say means sweet **** all cause the man is in love with himself

Stealdo

twinytwo wrote: »

But as we know what stephen jones has to say means sweet **** all cause the man is in love with himself

Completely - a lot of this stuff proves motivational though. I reckon Jones is paid by the comment left on the stories on the Times Website, no other reason for writing the nonsense that he regular puts about.

barnesd

There'll be more than 2 scrum halves, there has to be cover.

Stealdo

barnesd wrote: »

There'll be more than 2 scrum halves, there has to be cover.

There'll be 3. Philips, Blair and one of Cussiter, Peel, Ellis and Care.

premierstone

I fail to see what Hook has done to be considered a definate

[Jackass]

15. Kearney (Ireland)
14. Bowe (Ireland)
13. O'Driscoll (Ireland) (c)
12. Shanklin (Wales)
11. Williams (Wales)
10. Jones (Wales)
9. Blair (Scotland)

1. Jenkins (Wales)
2. Flannery (Ireland)
3. Vickery (England)
4. Alwyn-Jones (Wales)
5. O'Connell (Ireland)
6. Jones (Wales)
7. Wallace (Ireland)
8. Heaslip (Ireland)

16. Sheridan 17. Rees 18. O'Callaghan 19. Williams 20. Peel 21. Hook 22. Byrne

Starting 15:

7 Ireland
6 Wales
1 England
1 Scotland

Ireland and Wales to completely dominate the selection. In my first 15 there is only 2 spots for non-Irish/Welsh players, and even in those positions there is a strong case for either an Irish or Welsh man.

I don't think it's been a classic 6 nations, I think the out-half options have been the most limited, but the rest of the backline is superb! Even the quality covering is excellet - Kearney & Byrne are arguably the 2 form full-backs in world rugby right now, the forwards on the bench are all top class, in fact, any one of those bench players has the ability to turn a game. I put Shanklin at 12 cause he's such a strong powerfull runner I don't think he would have any problem filling that roll and it could be a pretty surprise partnership with O'Driscoll that could prove a masterstroke!

The pack in it's self is extremly powerfull, the weak point for me is hooker - Flannery wouldn't even be my first choice Irish hooker, but seeing as he got all the game time he will be well ahead of best in the pecking order, but his set piece isn't great and I think the front row is where the SA could pummell the Lions. I'm open to correction on my front row selection by the way - as a back it was never my strong point, but if the front row can live with them, the rest of that team is pure class and could do some serious damage!!

Should be a great tour!

myflipflops

Ivy Sour Fluff wrote: »

A friend was saying yesterday that the appointment of Gatland,Edwards and Mcgechan will spring a ridiculous team.

I think he could be right,If there is any tight calls then Wasps/Welsh and English players will get preference.

Whatever the eventual make up of the team, i would have confidence in McGeechan to pick his entire test team (and squad) on form and rugby reasoning rather than any bias towards Wasps, Wales or England players. Picking Wallace and Tom Smith as starting props in 1997 would be enough to prove this for me.

Stealdo

[Jackass] wrote: »

15. Kearney (Ireland)
14. Bowe (Ireland)
13. O'Driscoll (Ireland) (c)
12. Shanklin (Wales)
11. Williams (Wales)
10. Jones (Wales)
9. Blair (Scotland)

1. Jenkins (Wales)
2. Flannery (Ireland)
3. Vickery (England)
4. Alwyn-Jones (Wales)
5. O'Connell (Ireland)
6. Jones (Wales)
7. Wallace (Ireland)
8. Heaslip (Ireland)

16. Sheridan 17. Rees 18. O'Callaghan 19. Williams 20. Peel 21. Hook 22. Byrne

Starting 15:

7 Ireland
6 Wales
1 England
1 Scotland

Ireland and Wales to completely dominate the selection. In my first 15 there is only 2 spots for non-Irish/Welsh players, and even in those positions there is a strong case for either an Irish or Welsh man.

I don't think it's been a classic 6 nations, I think the out-half options have been the most limited, but the rest of the backline is superb! Even the quality covering is excellet - Kearney & Byrne are arguably the 2 form full-backs in world rugby right now, the forwards on the bench are all top class, in fact, any one of those bench players has the ability to turn a game. I put Shanklin at 12 cause he's such a strong powerfull runner I don't think he would have any problem filling that roll and it could be a pretty surprise partnership with O'Driscoll that could prove a masterstroke!

The pack in it's self is extremly powerfull, the weak point for me is hooker - Flannery wouldn't even be my first choice Irish hooker, but seeing as he got all the game time he will be well ahead of best in the pecking order, but his set piece isn't great and I think the front row is where the SA could pummell the Lions. I'm open to correction on my front row selection by the way - as a back it was never my strong point, but if the front row can live with them, the rest of that team is pure class and could do some serious damage!!

Should be a great tour!

I think pickinga starting team at this point while fun is a little pointless. Unlike last time round when Woodward picked his team before he left, all the players who tour will have a shot at playing and form down there will mean more than reputation. In my opinion BOD, POC and Euan Murray are the only ones in at this point, barring disaster for any of them.

Hooker, scrum half, out half, the back row and the back three particularly will be debated by the coaches right up until the final selection is decided upon.

twinytwo

Stealdo wrote: »

I think pickinga starting team at this point while fun is a little pointless. Unlike last time round when Woodward picked his team before he left, all the players who tour will have a shot at playing and form down there will mean more than reputation. In my opinion BOD, POC and Euan Murray are the only ones in at this point, barring disaster for any of them.

Hooker, scrum half, out half, the back row and the back three particularly will be debated by the coaches right up until the final selection is decided upon.

You can throw shane williams in that lot as well i really dont see him not starting

Stealdo

twinytwo wrote: »

You can throw shane williams in that lot as well i really dont see him not starting

Yeah - I'd be very surprised if he doesn't but in spite of being a fantastic player in attacking terms, I think his selection would always be open to debate depending on your defensive system. Given the coaching team it would be a big surprise if he didn't start, but I think he has slightly more to do than the three above.

anonymous_joe

Stealdo wrote: »

Yeah - I'd be very surprised if he doesn't but in spite of being a fantastic player in attacking terms, I think his selection would always be open to debate depending on your defensive system. Given the coaching team it would be a big surprise if he didn't start, but I think he has slightly more to do than the three above.

He scored some great tries against South Africa last summer.

sm.org

Stealdo wrote: »

I think pickinga starting team at this point while fun is a little pointless. Unlike last time round when Woodward picked his team before he left, all the players who tour will have a shot at playing and form down there will mean more than reputation. In my opinion BOD, POC and Euan Murray are the only ones in at this point, barring disaster for any of them.

Hooker, scrum half, out half, the back row and the back three particularly will be debated by the coaches right up until the final selection is decided upon.

Lee Byrne could rest from now untill then and still start the first test.

twinytwo

sm.org wrote: »

Lee Byrne could rest from now untill then and still start the first test.

I wouldnt be so sure... if Kearney out plays him tomorrow he could be in trouble

KevinK

Before the 6N I would have thought R.Jones and Haskell to be definite starters in the backrow, now I'm not sure Haskell will tour.

Similarly I thought Sackey might make the XV but now don't think he has a hope of making the squad.

Stealdo

sm.org wrote: »

Lee Byrne could rest from now untill then and still start the first test.

Think you're way off the mark on that. I think he'll tour alright, but he'll have to earn his place when he gets there along with almost all others.
He's no more secure than the other leading players at the moment, Jenkins, Wyn Jones, Heaslip, Stephen Jones and Shane Williams are equally in pole in their various positions, but will have to show form on tour in order to stay ahead of other contenders.

bamboozle

KevinK wrote: »

Before the 6N I would have thought R.Jones and Haskell to be definite starters in the backrow, now I'm not sure Haskell will tour.

Similarly I thought Sackey might make the XV but now don't think he has a hope of making the squad.

not sure if i'm alone but i really think sackey is pants.
i wouldnt be suprised if we see either of the Evans brothers in the squad...

Webbs

Stealdo wrote: »

I think pickinga starting team at this point while fun is a little pointless. Unlike last time round when Woodward picked his team before he left, all the players who tour will have a shot at playing and form down there will mean more than reputation. In my opinion BOD, POC and Euan Murray are the only ones in at this point, barring disaster for any of them.

Hooker, scrum half, out half, the back row and the back three particularly will be debated by the coaches right up until the final selection is decided upon.

Gethin Jenkins is an absolute certainty as well - the best prop of the home 6nations this year without a doubt

Chucky the tree

Stealdo wrote: »

I think pickinga starting team at this point while fun is a little pointless. Unlike last time round when Woodward picked his team before he left, all the players who tour will have a shot at playing and form down there will mean more than reputation. In my opinion BOD, POC and Euan Murray are the only ones in at this point, barring disaster for any of them.

Hooker, scrum half, out half, the back row and the back three particularly will be debated by the coaches right up until the final selection is decided upon.

Who's to debate over? Unless JW makes a comeback.

Stealdo

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Who's to debate over? Unless JW makes a comeback.

The dynamics of a tour like this are completely different to anything else in rugby (or any other sport I can think of). There will be very few survivors of previous tours so players coming together from different countries will for the main part have never played together before. While Jones, and as above Jenkins and Williams are very much in pole position now, McGeechan will be picking a team, not 15 individuals. He'll be picking it with a gameplan in mind and a style of play, attacking, defensively and with set pieces. The squad will be picked based on what his opinion of the best 2 players in each position +5 or 6 specialists are, but the test team will be picked as a team with these things in mind, and a lot of it will hinge on how things go in training sessions and tour games. Hence my opinion that these guys still have to earn their places. In fact, the more I think about it I think I'm being generous to Murray to say that he's nailed on, there'll be two other tight heads out there, most likely Vickery and Adam Jones and he could come under pressure too. BOD and POC for me are in whatever team you pick no matter what way you want to play the game and pretty much regardless of their form in the build up. Everyone else for me will have to be playing well to earn a place.

[Jackass]

sm.org wrote: »

Lee Byrne could rest from now untill then and still start the first test.

Are ya mental?? That's probably the biggest 50/50 call in the entire starting 15. Tomorrow will go a long way to deciding who starts the first lions test with the 15 jersey on their back. My money is on Kearney.

Stev_o

[Jackass] wrote: »

15. Kearney (Ireland)
14. Bowe (Ireland)
13. O'Driscoll (Ireland) (c)
12. Shanklin (Wales)
11. Williams (Wales)
10. Jones (Wales)
9. Blair (Scotland)

1. Jenkins (Wales)
2. Flannery (Ireland)
3. Vickery (England)
4. Alwyn-Jones (Wales)
5. O'Connell (Ireland)
6. Jones (Wales)
7. Wallace (Ireland)
8. Heaslip (Ireland)

16. Sheridan 17. Rees 18. O'Callaghan 19. Williams 20. Peel 21. Hook 22. Byrne

Starting 15:

7 Ireland
6 Wales
1 England
1 Scotland

Hmm id disagree with Kearney at 15 i think it's Armitage's to loose, Kearney has been mediocre in this 6N and it's disappointing that he hasn't brought his great attacking game when in blue to green. Sure he hasn't even scored a try (our only player in our back three not to score) Armitage has a complete game and would be a better attacking option aswell (has tons of gas).


Euan Murray will start at prop (someone remind which number it is my back row ignorance means i can never remember what 1 and 3 represent) probably the best prop in the Isles at the moment.

Jones shouldn't start and shouldn't be near the the starting team or bench, Ferris or Strokosch (spelling) would be a better selection or else moving Wallace to 6 and M.Williams to 7.

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

Hmm id disagree with Kearney at 15 i think it's Armitage's to loose, Kearney has been mediocre in this 6N and it's disappointing that he hasn't brought his great attacking game when in blue to green. Sure he hasn't even scored a try (our only player in our back three not to score) Armitage has a complete game and would be a better attacking option aswell (has tons of gas).


Euan Murray will start at prop (someone remind which number it is my back row ignorance means i can never remember what 1 and 3 represent) probably the best prop in the Isles at the moment.

Jones shouldn't start and shouldn't be near the the starting team or bench, Ferris or Strokosch (spelling) would be a better selection or else moving Wallace to 6 and M.Williams to 7.

I dont agree with armatage.Ben Foden is a better fullback than him.

Stev_o

Ivy Sour Fluff wrote: »

I dont agree with armatage.Ben Foden is a better fullback than him.

True i think Armitage is a great 13 prospect for England and Foden is possibly Jason Robinson mark 2 in some regards pity England havent given him a chance at 15 as he is remarkably talented.

wixfjord

Foden looks amazing in the gp, absolutely floats past players, but I would wonder about him in an international setting. Would love to see him get a chance for the lions second team tho.

Stick_man

Anyone think Cipriani will tour? I dont think he has done anything to warrant a place but that wont stop Geech. The english press would love it and it might explain Cipriani's one year contract extension..... also anyone catch the rugby club last week? Will Greenwood kept a straight face while saying Matt Banahan is a possibility:eek:

Stev_o

Stick_man wrote: »

Anyone think Cipriani will tour? I dont think he has done anything to warrant a place but that wont stop Geech. The english press would love it and it might explain Cipriani's one year contract extension..... also anyone catch the rugby club last week? Will Greenwood kept a straight face while saying Matt Banahan is a possibility:eek:

Tbh i think they get more of a kick calling x player to be dropped form their EPS squad rather then a souless tour. Cip hasn't regained the form he showed last year so will be doubtful. That said though our choice of ten's is beyond p1ss poor so you never know. It's going to be a big squad and will contain surprises like '96 tour. Banahan is a very useful player so i dunno why you'd be annoyed if he traveled and played mid week matches.

Stick_man

Banahan is a useful player in the premiership, he should be nowhere near a lions jersey midweek or otherwise. Williams,Fitzgearld,Jones,Sackey,Cueto,Bowe,Halfpenny,Lamont,Monye,Lewsey is he ahead of any of those?

Stev_o

Stick_man wrote: »

Banahan is a useful player in the premiership, he should be nowhere near a lions jersey midweek or otherwise. Williams,Fitzgearld,Jones,Sackey,Cueto,Bowe,Halfpenny,Lamont,Monye,Lewsey is he ahead of any of those?

And all those players are extremely alike? Lamont will be nowhere near the squad. Banahan is a great finisher, defender and easily gets passed the gainline anyone who can do the last especially is a useful player to have.

curts82

hayes,o gara will def go.

Stick_man

Stev_o wrote: »

And all those players are extremely alike? Lamont will be nowhere near the squad. Banahan is a great finisher, defender and easily gets passed the gainline anyone who can do the last especially is a useful player to have.

You are basing all of this on watching him in the premiership, If he is all those things why hasnt he been near the england squad in the past eighteen months? A poor england squad at that. You are suggesting bringing him to play midweek but what is the point in selecting someone who you know hasnt a chance of playing the tests. Every player that is selected has to be a viable option for the tests, Banahan is not. Can you picture Habana and Peitersen running at him! His phyisicality marks him out in the premiership, whole differnet ball game at test level.

Orizio

My team, struggling for inside center, left wing and hoping Wilkinson comes back.

15. Byrne
14. Halfpenny
13. O'Driscoll (Capt.)
12. Roberts
11. Williams

10. Jones
9. Blair

1. Jenkins
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Alwyn-Jones
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Williams
8. Heaslip

blackdog2

Stick_man wrote: »

You are basing all of this on watching him in the premiership, If he is all those things why hasnt he been near the england squad in the past eighteen months? A poor england squad at that. You are suggesting bringing him to play midweek but what is the point in selecting someone who you know hasnt a chance of playing the tests. Every player that is selected has to be a viable option for the tests, Banahan is not. Can you picture Habana and Peitersen running at him! His phyisicality marks him out in the premiership, whole differnet ball game at test level.

Can you imagine the reverse? South Africa will bring a hugely more physical running game at the back 3, there I can see the usefulness of Banahan

[Jackass]

If Williams starts at 7 I'd imagine Wallace will start at 8. Or if Williams and Heaslip start, Wallace will start at 6.

As good as all the rest have played, it's virtually impossible to leave Wallace out, especially as he is so versitile. But he has to be in there imo.

Podge_irl

[Jackass] wrote: »

If Williams starts at 7 I'd imagine Wallace will start at 8. Or if Williams and Heaslip start, Wallace will start at 6.

As good as all the rest have played, it's virtually impossible to leave Wallace out, especially as he is so versitile. But he has to be in there imo.

I can't see Wallace starting at 6 or 8, especially not 6. It would be very tough to leave him out, but given the form of some of the options at 6 and the fact that it is the position he least plays in I would consider it quite unlikely he'll start there.

Stev_o

Mega quote away................also note how bad of a rugby pundit Stephen Jones is.

The Times wrote: »

When five Sunday Times experts sit down to select an ideal Lions squad, unity is as rare as a snowstorm in Johannesburg

The setting was the John Betjeman Room at Rules restaurant, in London’s Covent Garden. There were three rugby greats — Lawrence Dallaglio and Jeremy Guscott of England and Kenny Logan of Scotland — with 220 caps between them. Dallaglio and Guscott amassed six Lions tours. There were also two Sunday Times journalists, chief sports writer David Walsh and rugby correspondent Stephen Jones. Their task: to agree on the captain and players for the 2009 Lions tour. Easy. Except they couldn’t agree on anything.

Stephen Jones: It looks a ferociously difficult trip . . . and there has never been a great Lions tour without a great captain. So who’s the captain?

Jeremy Guscott: I don’t think it will be ferociously difficult. I don’t think we go there as underdogs.

SJ: Who’s captain for the ferociously easy tour of South Africa, then?

David Walsh: It hasn’t been a really good Six Nations for the Lions. Paul O’Connell is the outstanding candidate. But he has had one very bad experience with the Lions.

JG: You have massive reservations because when the s*** has hit the fan for Ireland, O’Driscoll has been the one to pull them out, and not O’Connell.

Kenny Logan: Ideally you want somebody who is at the coalface, but I agree with Jerry. O’Driscoll is there when it goes wrong and O’Connell has maybe not shown that.

Lawrence Dallaglio: O’Driscoll’s last Lions experience was traumatic. For me, that discounts him. He is such a good player, he just needs to concentrate on that. It has to be a forward in South Africa: Paul O’Connell or Phil Vickery.

KL: Phil’s not going to get in the team, though.

LD: So therefore, Paul O’Connell would be my choice.

SJ: But when they get there they might find he’s not in the Test team. He may not be good enough in the middle of the lineout to jump against Matfield.

JG: David Wallace. For me, that guy walks into the team

DW: David Wallace is not really a 6, he’s not really a 7.

JG: But he’s brilliant, David.

SJ: Ryan Jones has been misused by Wales. They shunted him to the blindside and haven’t given him the chance to show what he can do.

DW: So the consensus view is that O’Connell should be captain?

JG: No. You are allowed your position. Jonesy thinks it’s Ryan. Wrongly. He just can’t help his loyalty.

SJ: Well at least I didn’t name someone like Wallace who’s never even captained a pedalo. Let’s go to half-back. Test choices and back-up?

JG: Jonny, if fit. If he is not fit, O’Gara. His tactical kicking is like the ball is on a piece of string.

KL: If Jonny is playing well for his club, I’d take him, but O’Gara for me. Though he is not the best defender in the world. Part of me is also thinking Stephen Jones, but that is only if you put Mike Phillips in at scrum-half. I would not. Geech will want to shift this big pack around, so you need a scrum-half like Dwayne Peel or Chris Cusiter because they get the ball away from the ruck quickly.

SJ: The Scots fans love Mike Blair. You clearly rate Cusiter higher

KL: Yes. Blair has not had a great Six Nations because I think he has taken a lot of pressure on himself.

DW: Lads, Ronan O’Gara and Mike Phillips have had very average Six Nations campaigns. O’Gara struggled not just against Scotland but I think he had an awful day against England. Phillips looks to me the archetypical case of a guy who has come back from a very serious injury, hasn’t had a proper pre-season and is lacking that little bit of dynamism. But I believe that he will get it right.

LD: Danny. He has got more chance of going as a full-back than he has as a fly-half.

DW: I believe he will prove himself the best. As Lawrence says, you get on the plane first. Cipriani gets on the plane. He trains, he plays in matches, people will realise he’s the guy who should be playing against the Springboks.

KL: If he is on form at Wasps, Geech will take him. But he is not.

LD: I wouldn’t discount him playing as a full-back.

SJ: I would have Cipriani in the party definitely. Stephen and Ronan are just not on form, just not on form.

LD: At this moment Cipriani doesn’t have the ability to control a game at Lions level. The other three fly-halves do. If I was picking the England team now, I would consider Cipriani at full-back. I don’t agree with Jerry on very much but the three 10s that have to go are Stephen Jones, O’Gara and Jonny Wilkinson.

KL: I’d agree with that. Totally.

LD: Don’t forget we didn’t do anything spectacular when we beat South Africa last time. At scrum-half I would go for Phillips, but I’d take Harry Ellis. He adds physicality. And I’d also take Dwayne Peel. He starts behind the other two, but he could end up being the front-runner.

KL: He’ll end up the No 1.

LD: And that’s tough on Stringer because I think he’s experienced and he’s good.

SJ: What! Stringer’s a little bloke who’s won a torrent of caps because Ireland’s development system didn’t produce anyone in 15 years.

LD: Finally, Ben Foden for wild card.

SJ: Okay. Let’s go to full-back.

LD: The best full-backs have been Lee Byrne and Delon Armitage, correct?

DW: Rob Kearney has been good.

KL: Rob Kearney has been better than Armitage. But what about Byrne? Jerry said on TV that he’s the best player in the world.

JG: I am sticking to it. On a Lions tour, his attacking play is brilliant. His defence is as good as any full-back in the championship. In the high veldt, his 60m kicks that we see here will turn into 80m kicks.

LD: Rob Kearney’s an outstanding player. I’m just concerned that he knows when to run it back and when to kick it back. Byrne’s error count is very minimal. His kicking game in tight situations is unbelievable and his positional play has been superb in the championship this year. I mean, you can’t find anything to fault that guy. Incredible.

KL: Byrne for me. There is such a gap between him and whoever is left.

DW: Let me be the dissenting voice.

SJ: Well, okay. If I took three, I would take Byrne, Kearney and Cipriani. If Lawrence wants him as a 15.

DW: I like Foden. He is tremendously talented. But not at the cost of Armitage. Armitage has earned his place on that plane. Three tries in an England team not going well.

LD: All those full-backs are in their infancy in terms of caps.

SJ: Chris Paterson, just as a passing mention, surely?

JG: Paterson is great on a tour. He is an experienced guy, you know what you are going to get from him and you know he’s going to knock his goals over.

SJ: Before we all fall out, let’s go on to centres.

JG: The easy one for me to pick is O’Driscoll.

KL: Definitely.

SJ: I wouldn’t have him in my Test team.

KL: Why would you not have him? Honestly, I am worried about you writing in the paper now.

SJ: I’ll carry on as best as I can.

KL: Come on, you can’t put that in there. You cannot write that.

LD: Brian O’Driscoll has got to that stage of his career where he needs to be challenged. In a Lions context there are going to be players around him who aren’t going to worship the ground he walks on and will challenge him. It will bring out the best in him because he is a champion.

DW: He was the reason Ireland beat England. His defence was awesome.

KL: Jonesy, you need to call yourself a taxi and come back tomorrow.

SJ: Okay, inside-centre?

JG: I would love Gavin Henson to stand up and say, “I am the best inside-centre in the world.” Which I believe he can be.

LD: He hasn’t done it yet, though. JG: For me as a coach it would be a challenge, in a way that Cipriani or Foden would be.

KL: But you have to watch how many people you take like that.

JG: That’s why I wouldn’t take Cipriani and I would take Henson.

SJ: Who’s your 12?

KL: Jamie Roberts.

LD: Me too. Jamie Roberts is my 12. I think Lewsey comes into the reckoning as utility and Tom Shanklin. I would have Shanklin above Henson, just purely on what he has done over the past two years.

JG: Henson has more ability in his left arm than the rest of that lot.

KL: What worries me about Henson is his whole mindset: when the action starts getting hard in a Lions Test and there is 10 minutes to go, where will he be?

SJ:He has missed two whole seasons.

LD: We haven’t seen enough of him yet, that’s the thing.

SJ: Would we all have Lewsey in the Lions squad?

KL: Yes.

DW: Yes.

JG: No, I wouldn’t.

KL: Come on, let’s be honest

JG: No. I would disagree.

KL: Why? Tell me why.

JG: I like Tommy Bowe and I like Fitzgerald. And I think to hell with utility backs, b****** to them.

LD: We are talking about a team with a backline that has not got masses of experience. So I am not suggesting that he is going to be first choice but he warrants inclusion.

SJ: Let’s ask Kenny for his wings.

KL: Shane Williams has not really been brilliant this season. He has had a little injury but he is somebody who can win games.

JG: Psychologically he has got the edge on Habana.

LD: Yes, easily.

KL: He has, he has. Cueto has crept up. He has got better. He makes the right decisions. I was all for Sackey. I still am a big Sackey fan. I think Sackey does win matches and he can finish. But he is not on form.

LD: Shaun Edwards will get the best out of him, so therefore he warrants inclusion. But there are a few others. DW: So far in this Six Nations Ireland haven’t actually lost that many games and one of the reasons . . .

LD: Tommy Bowe. You are going to say Tommy Bowe, aren’t you?

DW: The Ireland wings have done well. And I particularly like Luke Fitzgerald because he has that kind of rare thing in international rugby now where you see a player and you say, “Every decision he makes is pretty intelligent”. Against him, he is inexperienced and he’s physically not reached anything like his maturity but I would definitely take him.

SJ: David, who are your two starting Test wings? You have named Bowe, Fitzgerald; two more wings?

DW: Lewsey I like. I would definitely have Sackey because at his best, he is a very, very good player and he is big. In South Africa that means a lot. I would definitely have Shane Williams because he’s different and he has ability to beat people.

JG: I would have Shane Williams. My other would be between Bowe and Sackey. Sackey is like an old Lineker in the six-yard box.

KL: He’s a predator.

JG: And Tommy Bowe, he’s a flipping grafter. He also understands, having played in the centre.

KL: The Lions will play a blitz defence. With Shaun Edwards involved, you will see the biggest, most aggressive blitz defence you’ll have ever seen.

LD: Better make sure you win the lineout ball first because otherwise we are in serious . . . The outstanding No 8s this season have been Andy Powell and Jamie Heaslip.

SJ: Would you not take Ryan Jones? LD: Well, it really depends on how many back-row forwards we are going to have.

JG: Powell is the same as Roberts. And this is one worry I will have about Gatland and Edwards and Howley being on this Lions Tour: why haven’t they made a difference about the way they both play? Because people have worked them out, England worked them out.

SJ: So, Lawrence’s Test 8?

LD: Heaslip at the moment.

KL: Do we all agree?

SJ: Jones, Ryan.

KL: Let’s be honest, he will go on the tour, right? And it’s up to him, in the first five games, four games, to play himself in.

JG: Heaslip and Tom Croft. Can you imagine those two being in the back-row?

SJ: Lawrence, just complete your back-row and give some other flankers that you want to take.

LD: Well, I think Martyn Williams. I find it hard to split David Wallace and Martyn Williams but Williams is my starting Test flanker, at 7.

SJ: Blindside flanker?

LD: As a workhorse, Strokosch, the guy from Scotland, has caught my eye over the last couple of games. Tom Croft adds another lineout dimension, which just shades out Haskell.

JG: I would have Heaslip, I would have Wallace at openside and I would have Croft at blindside.

LD: Joe Worsley will definitely go to South Africa. He has earned the right. The Boks have so many ball- carriers — Burger, Roussow, Botha. You need a tree-cutter. Joe is a tree-cutter.

DW: I would definitely go with Tom Croft because he is going to be a huge player on the hard grounds. He has so much pace.

KL: He’s going to get better.

JG: There are some huge candidates. Steve Ferris has played well in this championship.

DW: Stephen Ferris has played really well.

SJ: Wow. Walshy and Jerry have agreed.

LD: A lot will depend on whether they play Shaw in the second-row because if they go with O’Connell and Kennedy or that kind of combination, then they can go with Worsley in the back row. If they go with Shaw, then like England did, you need an extra outlet in Croft.

SJ: Let’s go to the front-row. Tight-head?

KL: Euan Murray.

DW: I like Euan Murray as a scrummager. I haven’t seen him do a huge amount outside of the scrums. Adam Jones has been a key for Wales. He is unsung and should certainly go on tour. Gethin Jenkins would be my loosehead and Euan Murray would be my tighthead.

JG: Same. With Gethin, you are talking work-rate.

LD: He is phenomenal. Gethin and Phil Vickery for me. My choice of hooker is between Jerry Flannery and Matthew Rees.

KL: Rees for me.

DW: Rory Best is the best hooker.

JG: I’m going to go for Ford.

DW: It’s nice that we all agree! Four different Test hookers! Make it five, Steve.

SJ: My choice would be Richard Hibberd but he’s not even in the Welsh squad. So that’s five! The Boks have an awesome second row, an awesome lineout. Who are our Test second-rowers?

JG: I like Alun-Wyn Jones as an athlete. He is 23, he’s raw. For me he has got it all.

DW: Intelligent forward, too. You know, he’s a bright guy.

JG: O’Connell has to be in there for his presence alone.

LD: Depending on the back-row selection, I would have Shaw at the front and O’Connell in the middle.

KL: I’ve got Wyn Jones in there, with O’Connell and Shawsy. There’s a part of me that knows Shawsy really well. He’s a menace, he’s a big man, and you are going to need physicality in there.

JG: My dark horse is Nick Kennedy to do what Jeremy Davidson did to the Boks in 1997. To nick Matfield.

SJ: In South Africa, at his best, I like Hines as much as I like O’Connell.

LD: Shaw, O’Connell, Wyn Jones and Kennedy would be the four.

SJ: Well, we’ve really helped Geech out. We’ve got 11 captains and 203 players. So how will they go?

DW: 3-0 to the Boks is the most likely result.

KL: We can win. It’s unlikely, though. Say 2-1 to them.

LD: I think we will win 2-1.

JG: My belief is that the Lions will win. They will win it at the end of the second Test. They will do exactly the same thing as we did.

SJ: If we win the first Test, we can win 2-1. But I am not overwhelmed with optimism.

Our panel of experts select the men who can make the Lions roar

Steven Jones Made his Lions tour ‘debut’ in New Zealand in 1983 and our man has reported on every tour since

15 Lee Byrne (Wales)
14 Rob Kearney (Ireland)
13 Tom Shanklin (Wales)
12 Gavin Henson (Wales)
11 Shane Williams (Wales)
10 Stephen Jones (Wales)
9 Mike Phillips (Wales)
1 Andrew Sheridan ( England)
2 Ross Ford (Scotland)
3 Phil Vickery (England)
4 Simon Shaw (England)
5 Alun-Wyn Jones (Wales)
6 Tom Croft (England)
8 Ryan Jones (capt)(Wales)
7 David Wallace (Ireland)

David Walsh An eternal optimist, despite covering Irish rugby for many years. Co-author of Lawrence Dallaglio’s autobiography

15 Delon Armitage (England)
14 Shane Williams (Wales)
13 Brian O’Driscoll (Ireland)
12 Jamie Roberts (Wales)
11 Luke Fitzgerald (Ireland)
10 Danny Cipriani (England)
9 Mike Phillips (Wales)
1 Gethin Jenkins (Wales)
2 Rory Best (Ireland)
3 Euan Murray (Scotland)
4 Paul O’Connell (capt) (Ireland)
5 Alun-Wyn Jones (Wales)
6 Tom Croft (England)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Ireland)
7 Martyn Williams (Wales)

Lawrence Dallaglio Three Lions tours and a major factor in the series win in South Africa in 1997. Now on the board of his old club Wasps

15 Lee Byrne (Wales)
14 Paul Sackey (England)
13 Brian O’Driscoll (Ireland)
12 Jamie Roberts (Wales)
11 Shane Williams (Wales)
10 Ronan O’Gara (Ireland)
9 Mike Phillips (Wales)
1 Gethin Jenkins (Wales)
2 Jerry Flannery (Ireland)
3 Phil Vickery (England)
4 Simon Shaw (England)
5 Paul O’Connell (capt) (Ireland)
6 Joe Worsley (England)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Ireland)
7 Martyn Williams (Wales)

Jeremy Guscott Winner on two Lions tours, with a brilliant try against Australia in 1989 and the drop goal that beat South Africa in 1997

15 Lee Byrne (Wales)
14 Shane Williams (Wales)
13 Brian O’Driscoll (Ireland)
12 Gavin Henson (Wales)
11 Tommy Bowe (Ireland)
10 Jonny Wilkinson (England)
9 Mike Phillips (Wales)
1 Gethin Jenkins (Wales)
2 Ross Ford (Scotland)
3 Euan Murray (Scotland)
4 Paul O’Connell (Ireland)
5 Alun-Wyn Jones (Wales)
6 Tom Croft (England)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Ireland)
7 David Wallace (capt) (Ireland)

Kenny Logan Won more than 70 caps for Scotland, and managed to take fifth place on Strictly Come Dancing

15 Lee Byrne (Wales)
14 Shane Williams (Wales)
13 Brian O’Driscoll (capt) (Ire)
12 Jamie Roberts (Wales)
11 Paul Sackey (England)
10 Ronan O’Gara (Ireland)
9 Chris Cusiter (Scotland)
1 Gethin Jenkins (Wales)
2 Matthew Rees (Wales)
3 Euan Murray (Scotland)
4 Paul O’Connell (Ireland)
5 Simon Shaw (England)
6 Tom Croft (England)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Ireland)
7 Martyn Williams (Wales)

sickpuppy

Hopefully the few who still believe Gavin Henson the worlds best player will shut up after his no show today the only welsh player not singing the anthem
yer man jones i wouldnt pick O Driscoll well done sir all credibility lost muppet

Stick_man

blackdog2 wrote: »

Can you imagine the reverse? South Africa will bring a hugely more physical running game at the back 3, there I can see the usefulness of Banahan

He is nowhere near test level. He has no usefulness at Lions level. There are at least ten other wingers more worthy of touring than him.

Stealdo

Stev_o wrote: »

Mega quote away................also note how bad of a rugby pundit Stephen Jones is.

Anyone who doesn't think that BOD is the king now is an idiot simple as.


Lions captain, Lions lord, Lions God end of story.

Fishtits

Given the slant on the coaching/selector side, I just hope they can be objective... :rolleyes:

anonymous_joe

sickpuppy wrote: »

Hopefully the few who still believe Gavin Henson the worlds best player will shut up after his no show today the only welsh player not singing the anthem
yer man jones i wouldnt pick O Driscoll well done sir all credibility lost muppet

I'd say the same thing as Jeremy Guscott - we're still waiting for him to prove he's the best 12 in the world. If he does, he'd walk into the Lions side, but I've no idea if he could ever prove it.

Podge_irl

In fairness, Steven Jones is a complete twat and his opinion doesn't deserve to be discusssed. Anyone who wouldn't have BOD in their Lions team is quite frankly stupid.

delta_bravo

Anyone else think Paterson should be brought along as a backup? Such a dependable kicker, i heard some stat he hasnt missed a kick for 2 years. His experience could be useful

Stick_man

delta_bravo wrote: »

Anyone else think Paterson should be brought along as a backup? Such a dependable kicker, i heard some stat he hasnt missed a kick for 2 years. His experience could be useful

He is certaintly an option, remember 97 with Jenkins? he was only in the side to kick goals.

zAbbo

I think he'll take a total of 5 Fly Halves & Full backs.

In that case ROG, Jones, Wilkinson, Bryne & Kearney

Stev_o

Post 6N team for me.

15.Armitage
14.Bowe
13.O'Driscoll
12.Flutey
11.Evans/Monye
10.????
9.?????
8.Heaslip
7.Wallace
6.Ferris
5.AW Jones
4.O'Connell
3.Murray
2.Mears
1.Jenkins

Can't really decide on a 10 and Blair who was a shoe in for 9 has been poor so i dunno who will end up over taking him.