Garda Poster Campaign.

deadwood

Does anyone else think this is a cynical exercise by the GRA to milk sympathy form the weary public?

In my view it's nothing more than tabloid sensationalism. The public are already aware of the dangers we face and it's something we risk when we go on duty. No person should be subject to any form of abuse and your chosen profession shouldn't mitigate any form af assault.

I think if the public were made more aware of some other areas where Garda manpower is wasted, they would demand stronger action to get more return from us for their hard earned tax-euros. They would be made aware of how our hands are tied in many ways, limiting our ability to provide the service we signed up to give for 30 or so years.

I realise showing a guard wading through piles of needless paperwork, or writing down notes in video recorded interviews isn't as "sexy" from a publicity angle.

If the above images were used to promote better personal protection for Gardai, more manpower or improved training fair enough, but to my mind, it looks like we're saying "we want special treatment in relation to increasing taxes and levvies - look what we go through on your behalf." If this is the case, you don't need me to list the other professions that equally deserve special treatment too.

gamblor1975

+1,
I hope this dosn't sound callous, but isn't dealing with violence and violent people part of the Job??? Plenty of other occupations have to deal with violence on a daily basis, i.e. casualty nurses, social workers and barmen.

Is this not explained to the Gaurds during training? The public are not going to support any group that is not willing to pay their share and seek to excuse themselves from the pension levy due to "Look how special we are".

The Gardai are certainly not low paid and have plenty of perks (Offical and unofficial)I read on a post here yesterday that average pay for a Gardas is 51K+.:eek:

While I have sympathy for anyone injured or attacked including plenty of the innocent public attacked each weekend,
They (the Gaurds) do not have my support with this poster campaign.:mad:

Satan Polaroid

Gardaí are well paid.

We are not well-equipped however. My experience of the GRA has been they will fight tooth and nail for our wages, but when it comes to getting resources to allow us to perform our job more effectively and more safely, they are seriously lacking imo.

Thanks for sharing your opinion Deadwood, I thought I was the only one feeling like this!

CLADA

Have said it before on another thread that I have no problem bearing my burden of cuts to aid economic recovery once its fair and equitable.

In the week the first cut kicks in we discover TD's are getting a €3000 pay rise. As mad as that makes me, I can only imagine how the 000's that are losing their jobs each week must feel.

I'm in full agreement with deadwood, the poster campaign from what I've been hearing in the stations is an embarrasment to the majority of Gardai and shows how out of touch and ineffective the rep body is.

Gamblor 1975's comments are a good example of how the general public feel, and I for one don't want to be branded as a greedy whinger by a poster campaign I don't support.

Zambia

Folks I think everyone one is going to have to take a cut across the board (but it should be across the board if the cops take one so should every gov offiicial)

Have you guys got expandable batons yet ? or are they still on "trial"

eroo

Well said deadwood and CLADA!

Eru

I disagree strongly.

Many many people dont realise that the world is a dangerous place and Gardai are getting seriously injured. Do a Google search for 'Gardai' 'injured' and ignore the media results. Hell of a lot of people claiming that a Garda getting knifed happens once every 20 years and that assaults and general injuries are so rare they happen about once a year. look at the motor forum and see what people think our job entails. These same people also fail to realise that while they run away and call for help, we run in offering that help. Anything that wakes the public up is welcome in my book and evidently the members in the picture feel the same.

Also, the wages. No we are not on 51 per year. Remember the 'average' between the commiss and a probationer is over 100 grand but that doesnt mean the poor probationer is getting that.

And no, we are not well paid. Think about all the professions that earn more than us. Are their hours worse? Conditions worse? More dangerous? Do their personal lives suffer as much? No no no no no. So we are not well paid for what our careers actually require and the people that say we are I have one question for you, why didnt you sign up then? Because the majority wouldnt do our jobs for ten times the money.

And I have said it before, we didnt share the good times so I see no reason to share the bad times. Why is Deadwood paying for a social welfare system he is not entitled to use? Why are we getting hit with a pension levy when the government take home a far superior pension to us?

End of the day its the public sector being screwed....again.

deadwood

I pretty much agree with you Eru, but it's the poster campaign itself I have a problem with.

Like it or not, people expect us to step in. No, they didn't sign up, but we did, knowing there was a strong possibility that some day we might get injured.

My point is that this campaign is looking for special treatment for gardai while cuts are being made across the board. Maybe if the poster campaign was run in conjunction with teaching, medical, fire and other public services who face the risk of personal injury a united front might have given the public something to consider. Then we might have clawed back some of the goodwill eroded by the recent divide and conquer strategy employed by the government.

As a post stated above, the GRA give the impression that we are obsessed with pay alone. They might be, but i'm more concerned about our poor equipment across the board, the wasteful use of manpower and resources.

The way things stand, the GRA would be better served bargaining for better working conditions rather than lokking for money that simply isn't there. (Still plenty of cash there to fuel helicopters and mercs while I drive around alone in a Focus, though:mad:)

chop86

i'm not a guard but i think that its a service where paycuts should not appear and these posters are an effective way of pointing this out. I think i can safely say that the majority of the public would be shocked to see a guard in uniform physically assaulted, the genneral concensus being that its just not the norm and it shouldnt happen, but it is happening and happening on an increasing scale. The guards are having to put up with alot more sh/t, mostly undeserved (majority of guards will admit there a being a few sadistic cumts about!) and askin 'em to take a paycut as their command for respect wains is a real kick in the stones

Zambia

I would be prepared to bet good money if the Garda wage was cut by 25% very few would leave the force. At the end of the day you all love being Garda (not a bad thing). The fact you will get injured is part of your job, you still get paid a hell of a lot more than the average Squadie serving in Afganistan so the rational
risk of injury == cash
holds no water. The public are thank full for your support but there are thousands of applications for your job every time it comes up.

In a time of real economic fear you guys still have solid steady incomes a thing not to be sniffed at. Be thankful your job does not depend on sales.

As for not benefiting in the good times of course you did everybody did. Everyone lived on credit and Gardai where loved by lenders. Few other blue collar profesions got you a 100% mortgage.

Like I said before if the pie slices are going down nobody should get to hoard theirs.

Micky Dolenz

Eru wrote: »

I disagree strongly.

Many many people dont realise that the world is a dangerous place and Gardai are getting seriously injured. Do a Google search for 'Gardai' 'injured' and ignore the media results. Hell of a lot of people claiming that a Garda getting knifed happens once every 20 years and that assaults and general injuries are so rare they happen about once a year. look at the motor forum and see what people think our job entails. These same people also fail to realise that while they run away and call for help, we run in offering that help. Anything that wakes the public up is welcome in my book and evidently the members in the picture feel the same.

Also, the wages. No we are not on 51 per year. Remember the 'average' between the commiss and a probationer is over 100 grand but that doesnt mean the poor probationer is getting that.

And no, we are not well paid. Think about all the professions that earn more than us. Are their hours worse? Conditions worse? More dangerous? Do their personal lives suffer as much? No no no no no. So we are not well paid for what our careers actually require and the people that say we are I have one question for you, why didnt you sign up then? Because the majority wouldnt do our jobs for ten times the money.

And I have said it before, we didnt share the good times so I see no reason to share the bad times. Why is Deadwood paying for a social welfare system he is not entitled to use? Why are we getting hit with a pension levy when the government take home a far superior pension to us?

End of the day its the public sector being screwed....again.

You could take that logic and stick it to nearly any job. Those signs could show construcion workers getting injured on site accidents, every job has it's hazards.

When you say most people run away and ye run in...Well thats what you are trained and paid for..you are not doing the people you serve a favour, you are doing your job. And again there are professionals for each job...EG would you run into a burning building, no you shouldn't, thats what the FS do.
Will we see signs with burnt or stoned (not in a good way) FF?

I love this notion that the public sector getting screwed, look around you, A lot of people I know are either out of work or on short weeks. Who can they moan too? can they put up billboards showinh the repo man knocking on their doors?

There are scores of self employed people in this country paying into a social welfare system and they can't use it if they find themselves out of work.

My personal veiw is the AGS have done them selves no favour by the tone of their campaign,with a bit more of a guage on the public mood it may have been more sucessful. The public have their own real problems to take care of.

Paulzx

I would be prepared to bet good money if the Garda wage was cut by 25% very few would leave the force. At the end of the day you all love being Garda (not a bad thing). The fact you will get injured is part of your job,

Then why are older guards queuing up to go on pension due to the levy being introduced. Its the same in the Fire Service. We have dozens of firefighters retiring now who wouldn't have left. I think you've lost your " good money" on that one.

The fact you will get injured is part of your job, you still get paid a hell of a lot more than the average Squadie serving in Afganistan so the rational
risk of injury == cash
holds no water.

I think you'll find there is no such thing as a "squaddie" in the Irish Army. You'll also find there are no Irish Defence Forces in the coalition forces in Afganastin. What logic do you use to compare a serving member of An Garda Siochana with a member of the British Army. Maybe you think its the same country?

As for not benefiting in the good times of course you did everybody did. Everyone lived on credit and Gardai where loved by lenders. Few other blue collar profesions got you a 100% mortgage.

Oh, so being able to borrow large amounts of cash and get up to your bo**ox in debt is a perk of the job? Thats the most ridiculous statement i've heard in a long time.


I'll hand over to the serving Guards now. I'm sure they'll have some interesting replies to your weird logic

deadwood

Can we limit this to the actual pros and cons of the poster campaign please? The Garda/public/private sector thing is on several other threads.

(yes, back door;) modding)

Shield

deadwood wrote: »

(yes, back door;) modding)

Back door modding allowed in this instance because you're quite right. I would also like to see this brought back on topic please.

mikemac

Gardai face injuries in the line of duty
They need better equipment and facilities

People would support that. But instead a tagline about pay was used.
Who said tabloid headlines?

petergfiffin

Such is our society at the moment just about anybody who deals with the public risks injuries like those in the poster e.g. shop assistants, nurses, firemen etc. Assaults on Guards are wrong, end-of, but they are a recognised risk of the job, as others have said here the unions should be focusing on getting the best of equipment and ensuring there's proper support there for Guards who are injured.

I think the poster itself is a bit childish in it's choice of words, nobody (well very few) deserves a pay cut just like very few deserve to lose their job but we're all being asked to make sacrifices. I think with the pension levy people should have been given the option of either taking a pay-cut or taking a temporary reduction in their pension contributions

Eru

Edited, no more about the public V private sector.

I think this thread if nothing else actually shows the public dont give a stuff about Gardai. they consider it our jobs to get busted up for and in place of them. If anything, the poster campaign is too tame as her bnlack eye isnt really much. I have seen far worse

Being likened to a soldier that earns his income in a difference economy makes no sense at all though. Our minimum wage is more than a police officer in South Africa earns but then again, isnt our high income / cost of living why Dell left?

CLADA

The idea behind this poster/advertising/information campaign is to inform and garner public support in order to influence political decisions regarding Garda pay.

In this climate it ain't gonna work,

I would have preferred to see the same pic with a plea for the immediate introduction of Taser or pepper spray to help prevent these attacks.

Or a pic of some of the stations around the country showing some of the victorian rat infested conditions the Gardai and public have to tolerate.

The topic is the poster campaign and it's a PR disaster.

democrates

Eru wrote: »

Edited, no more about the public V private sector.

I think this thread if nothing else actually shows the public dont give a stuff about Gardai. they consider it our jobs to get busted up for and in place of them. If anything, the poster campaign is too tame as her bnlack eye isnt really much. I have seen far worse

Being likened to a soldier that earns his income in a difference economy makes no sense at all though. Our minimum wage is more than a police officer in South Africa earns but then again, isnt our high income / cost of living why Dell left?

Don't be disheartened by a few narrowly focussed analyses, most of us appreciate the Gardai very much and the surveys back that up showing very high levels of public support.

Most people understand that Gardai risk physical injury and face the psychological impact of dealing with thieves, druggies, muggers, rapists, murderers, child abusers, and so on. They also see the impact of crime on innocent victims up close and personal. The ultimate testaments to the pressure of that job are the high levels of marital breakup, depression, and alcoholism in the service.

I think it's absolutely valid when pay is reduced to highlight that conditions are so adverse compared to most other employments.

Zambia

The he public do give a stuff but unless your copletely oblivous to world events everyones wages are dropping. If I had stayed in Northern Ireland my old job has cut to 4 days a week in short a 25% pay cut. To demand that you are left out of a country wide public service cull only reflects you don't give a stuff about the public.

Then why are older guards queuing up to go on pension due to the levy being introduced. Its the same in the Fire Service. We have dozens of firefighters retiring now who wouldn't have left. I think you've lost your " good money" on that one.

I would say they are simply stepping down and can afford to do so. The people I am talking about are gardai in their 20s-30s-40s. And dozens is not a huge figure.

As for the Squaddie comparison its still stands despite being in another economy, wages and cost of living are not a world away. I you like I can change the example to Doormen. They face getting pounded nightly and are on nowhere near the money or Job security as Garda.

Actually yes being able to borrow largely is a perk and was seen as such , if any Garda used it to get himself into huge Hock thats his/her own fault.

The essence of this poster campaign is the Gardai should be exempt from pay cuts. Well would the GRA be so bold as to stick up a poster saying who should get pay cuts. I don't think so.

I support the fact you guys need better equipment but not this campaign, its like a kick in the nads to everyone trying to cope with the economy.

Whitewater-AGS

As already stated here there is going to be an experience gap developing in the emergency services, the senior man aint so senior these days and thats not a good thing really.

I have to admit I agree with the poster campaign, we ask alot of our emergency services and their pay should reflect it. However I dont think the posters will do alot but its a start.

Now as for this doorman, Garda example there are far to many reason to point out how stupid this is to even begin!

Zambia

Whitewater-AGS wrote: »

Now as for this doorman, Garda example there are far to many reason to point out how stupid this is to even begin!

Why go on tell me. This poster states this logic

Garda get Bashed hence do not deserve Paycuts

So by that very same logic

Anyone who gets bashed does not deserve a paycut

If you don't like doormen then swap it for a nurse , or a EMT, or anyone who has a risk of getting bashed.

Every Garda has a huge resource behind them of other Garda , in fact I reckon it states quite clearly in training manuals you are not on duty to be a
Punching bag. If you are looking likely to get hit call for back up.

So you tell me then if Paycuts into the public service have to come in who cops them. I am not in favour of pay cuts to anyone but if they are going hit the public sector why should the Gardai not be affected simply because of the GRA posters reasons. The Gardai dont live in a economic bubble not affected by the countries finances.

Trojan911

I fully support the Gardai & demand they keep their pay & demand more protection for our guys 'n' gals. Roll out the CS now and watch the assaults on gardai drop.

I say NO to a pay cut.

I knew what I had signed up to when I was serving in the Met, so I knew the rules & what came with the package...

Deadwoods car is on the left. Mine is on the right...

(I love Photoshop when I'm bored)

Eru

Must resist urge to answer................off topic.............

Anyway, I still like the poster campaign, I just wish we were doing more than that and that includes pointing out what we not only are currently using but also what we were stuck with equipment wise during the good times.

Zambia

I would roll out Glocks as well , ASP Or Better Batons , Safelock Handcuffs , OC spray, Decent Body armour , Duty rigs.

But to pay for it your all still getting a Pay cut.

djtechnics1210

I'll vote to keep the sig please.
I fully agree that safelock handcuffs and oc spray should have been rolled out ages ago. Duty rigs would of course be far more practical than equipment belts and would be a great item to have..... but again practicality is a word that management in AGS have never heard of

tallaght01

I don't think anyone should be exempt from the bad-time cutbacks. I don't agree with the public sector having to shoulder the burden, but that's what's happening.

But as long as it's happening, we should all have to shoulder it to a similar proportion. Many jobs in the public sector have their own demons for workers to confront. It would get very messy if we started trying to determine who is more or less "deserving" of a paycut.

Paulzx

Zambia232 wrote: »

I would say they are simply stepping down and can afford to do so. The people I am talking about are gardai in their 20s-30s-40s. And dozens is not a huge figure.

If you had read my post correctly you would realise the dozens figure is in reference to the fire service. We have approx 700 operational firefighters in DFB and we are looking like losing 70 to retirement in the next 6 months. This is 10% of our strenght with slim chances of recruitment to replace them. For Gardai change that figure to hundreds.

Most of these people would not have left. The levy has made up their mind for them. if you think we can provide the same levels of service minus 10% of our most expeienced staff you are sorely mistaken.

Mods, sorry for off topic but i had to correct the poster

coolinblue

to be honest i do think its important to highlight dangers gardai face daily, the two gardai in pictures were doing their work when they were seriously assaulted and anyone who believes that this is part of the job they signed up for havent a clue.. is it any wonder there is no respect or gardai with those views.. believe me there isnt too many who would become a garda, some have this glamorised view of having a uniform meaning power but in reality its a very thankless job.

angelfire9

Zambia232 wrote: »

The he public do give a stuff but unless your copletely oblivous to world events everyones wages are dropping. If I had stayed in Northern Ireland my old job has cut to 4 days a week in short a 25% pay cut. To demand that you are left out of a country wide public service cull only reflects you don't give a stuff about the public.
I would say they are simply stepping down and can afford to do so. The people I am talking about are gardai in their 20s-30s-40s. And dozens is not a huge figure.
As for the Squaddie comparison its still stands despite being in another economy, wages and cost of living are not a world away. I you like I can change the example to Doormen. They face getting pounded nightly and are on nowhere near the money or Job security as Garda.
Actually yes being able to borrow largely is a perk and was seen as such , if any Garda used it to get himself into huge Hock thats his/her own fault.
The essence of this poster campaign is the Gardai should be exempt from pay cuts. Well would the GRA be so bold as to stick up a poster saying who should get pay cuts. I don't think so.
I support the fact you guys need better equipment but not this campaign, its like a kick in the nads to everyone trying to cope with the economy.

Ok, i'd like to jump in here if i may
I work in the private sector, i'm an accountant, so i earn a reasonable wage, i don't face a quarter of the hassle that Gardai face on a daily basis (except maybe in October when i go to clients with hefty tax bills ) but i'm not being asked to take a pay cut, why should the Gardai??? Or any public service worker for that matter?

Would you go into a burning building to rescue a child? No? Yet you expect DFB to do it, for less money than they did it for last year???

If you were talking a wander around town at lunch time and saw a bank raid in progress would you tackle the armed raiders? No? Funny that, you expect unarmed Gardai to do it, and for less money than they did it for last year! :rolleyes:

Would you attend an RTA and take a person out of a vehicle who has serious arterial bleeding, would you deal with them at a great risk to personal health (HIV/HEP C) without thinking about it? No? Funny, that's what our EMT's do every day, for less money than they did it for last year!:o

The essential part of this argument is this
THis is NOT a public service V Private Sector Debate
This is NOT a debate as to how good Public service pensions are or how they have guaranteed jobs for life

IT IS THIS: Our public servants, be they Gardai, Fire Service, EMT's etc do a job that the ordinary joe soap on the street would never dream of doing, they do it because by and large they like doing it, but they do it also because it HAS TO BE DONE
And yet, you turn around and say its only fair that they should be forced to do it for less money than they did it for last year, where is the logic in that??? :mad:

Gardai, Fire Service and EMT's risk their lives at work every day of the week
For that priviledge they get a good pension, and guaranteed income (guaranteed unless of course they die in the course of their employment - it does happpen!)

The country is in a mess
The public service did not make the mess
Why are the public service being asked to clean up the mess???? That is the point here, the rest of it is just distraction tactics

deadwood

Trojan911 wrote: »

In fairness, it is a diesel.

pa990

happyhappy wrote: »

????????? are you seriously comparing working as a doorman to working as a garda??? ...

ah sure, isn't the same job, just without the irish

Zambia

See I get all the attention on the doorman and none on the who gets the pay cut poster.

No its true in an overall Job sense you cant compare a doormen who buys a Bow tie and goes on duty to a gardai who does months of training etc.

However the poster does not state that it simply states the fact that Gardai getting hurt means they should be exempt from an across the board pay cut.

I think its not on topic to discuss wether the public sector as a whole should get a pay cut.

If you start exempting people who gets to feel the chop.
Nurses dont deserve it
Ambulance officers dont
Firemen dont
Soldiers well they could get shot

You could keep going till your left with the clerical civil service staff and by then your pay cut is worth bugger all.

So I ask the question again if the public sector has to get a pay cut. Instead of a GRA poster stating the Gardai should not get a pay cut. Who should?

Eru

pa990 wrote: »

ah sure, isn't the same job, just without the irish

No, thats a security guard!

Zambia232 wrote: »

Who should?

The private sector employee whos boss can no longer afford to pay him for a job thats no longer needed as a result of having no more customers.

When Gardai, DFB, accountants, local GP's, etc can say we have no more customers then we will talk wages.

Whitewater-AGS

The pay cut aka pension levy should have been lower and across the entire board not just public service. As I already said we expect alot from our ES personal and their pay should reflect this. Moral has taken a hit beacuse of this and its only going one direction.

Sierra Oscar

At least the cost of living is falling.

Zambia

Eru wrote: »

The private sector employee whos boss can no longer afford to pay him for a job thats no longer needed as a result of having no more customers.

When Gardai, DFB, accountants, local GP's, etc can say we have no more customers then we will talk wages.

Sorry that does not fly I thought it was you who wanted to keep the Public vs Private out of this. The question is restricted to the Public sector.

In the the public sector only who should be getting a pay cut?


Angelfire I understand where your coming from but consider this you as an accountant daily perform tasks I would consider torture. I am sure most people who became Gardai would consider your job Torture. Dont dismiss your own job so readily. The Public service need your taxes as much as you need their bravery. We don't survive without each other.

IT IS THIS: Our public servants, be they Gardai, Fire Service, EMT's etc do a job that the ordinary joe soap on the street would never dream of doing, they do it because by and large they like doing it, but they do it also because it HAS TO BE DONE
And yet, you turn around and say its only fair that they should be forced to do it for less money than they did it for last year, where is the logic in that???

Every time these jobs are advertised (including the PSNI?) there is a huge turnout for assessment from Joe soaps. Look at the recruitment threads. Plus I am not saying they should get a pay cut I am saying if the public sector wage bill is to be cut no-one should be exempt by the reasons stated on the GRA poster.

Eru

Edit: No more off topic for Zambia. Hes being silly and should be spending more time haggling for a reduction in his local barbers or mechanics to ensure they are also taking a fair hit in these dark times.

So anyway, I think were all agreed that the poster itself isnt hitting the target but that increasing the public knowledge of the actual reality were dealing with is a good thing. Yes?

Zambia

Thanks Eru you have answered the question.

dredre

Whitewater-AGS wrote: »

The pay cut aka pension levy should have been lower and across the entire board not just public service. As I already said we expect alot from our ES personal and their pay should reflect this. Moral has taken a hit beacuse of this and its only going one direction.

What? how would a pay cut accross the board help? The reason the govt are cutting public sector pay is that they do not have enough money. Simple as that. Nothing more, nothing less.

The other reality is that the public sector does not generate much income. That is the job of the private sector. So like it or not, we will all be reliant on the private sector and businesses getting out of the red first before the rest of the country follows. That is why we have to swallow the bitter pill of refinancing the banks.

angelfire9

Zambia232 wrote: »

Sorry that does not fly I thought it was you who wanted to keep the Public vs Private out of this. The question is restricted to the Public sector.

In the the public sector only who should be getting a pay cut?


Angelfire I understand where your coming from but consider this you as an accountant daily perform tasks I would consider torture. I am sure most people who became Gardai would consider your job Torture. Dont dismiss your own job so readily. The Public service need your taxes as much as you need their bravery. We don't survive without each other.



Every time these jobs are advertised (including the PSNI?) there is a huge turnout for assessment from Joe soaps. Look at the recruitment threads. Plus I am not saying they should get a pay cut I am saying if the public sector wage bill is to be cut no-one should be exempt by the reasons stated on the GRA poster.

Ah, but if i as an accountant was told i had to take a pay cut i could either
(a) say no thanks and shift to another company
(b) say no thanks and go out on my own and take half my clients with me or
(c) say ok, sure no problem, whatever helps the company survive

Which of these options do you think i'd go for, probably (b)
I'd kick & scream before taking (c) yet the public service don't have that option
As to who should take pay cuts:~ here are my suggestions

1) Most of the ministers of state should go, do we really need 20 Junior Ministers, including 2 each specifically for Agriculture, Fisheries & Food, Environment Heritage & Local Government, and Community & Gaeltacht affairs???

2) Ministers & TD's should be confined to ONE PENSION not 2 or 3seeing as public servants are paying massive money for their pensions would it not seem fair and equitable to reduce the pension bill emanating from the Dail?

3) Half of the high paying civil servants within the HSE Should be given the chop and that money could be put into the services that need the cash

4) Can the government do nothing about the massive "golden handshakes" the bankers and the financial regulator are getting lately, it hardly seems right that they didn't do their jobs properly and are being compensated for it! The golden handshakes being given out to

5) Lastly do we really need Garda drivers and Garda protection for Ministers these days? Think of the overtime bill

deadwood

Zambia232 wrote: »

Sorry that does not fly I thought it was you who wanted to keep the Public vs Private out of this.

Nah, that was me. ERU could talk about this until the heavily subsidised cows come home.

Whitewater-AGS

dredre wrote: »

What? how would a pay cut accross the board help? The reason the govt are cutting public sector pay is that they do not have enough money. Simple as that. Nothing more, nothing less.

The other reality is that the public sector does not generate much income. That is the job of the private sector. So like it or not, we will all be reliant on the private sector and businesses getting out of the red first before the rest of the country follows. That is why we have to swallow the bitter pill of refinancing the banks.

How could a lower pension levy, which is just a tax called another name across the board help??? Hmmmmmm. . . . . . . thats a hard one:rolleyes:

Oh it might generate more money in the state purse and fairly instead of focusing on the public sector.

Zambia

deadwood wrote: »

Nah, that was me. ERU could talk about this until the heavily subsidised cows come home.

My apologies to both of you.:)

Angel I agree with most of your candidates and would also agree that everything has to be streamlined. As I dont know how much the goverment is trying to save I could not say if its enough.

deadwood

I think we're agreed the poster campaign may have been misguided in concentrating on garda pay alone. An opportunity missed maybe. It's difficult to discuss it without drifting into other public/private sector rows and related subjects which are being trashed out in one form or another all over this forum.

Time to lock this one or merge with another thread.

TheNog

Agreed it is time to lock it.

Any discussion about the recession is invariably going to end up in a Public v Private Sector Deathmatch imo which I think we can all agree was and still is the tactics of the Government. Its a poor show by the Government by dividing its people instead of uniting us and tackling the recession. There is a lot to be said for Obama's "Yes we can" attitude