Import rule changes in mini budget?

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 12:37pm #1

Do you think the budget might change the rules/taxes on importing cars in order to hit all the UK imports and stimulate more sales here?

I'm buying a car on Monday in the UK, so hopefully I'll have all the paperwork sorted before anything can change. I'll be saving a good few grand over what I would pay here, and getting a better specced car!

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 12:40pm

Gwynston wrote: »

I'll be saving a good few grand over what I would pay here, and getting a better specced car!

Have you checked how much you'd actually pay for the same car here, as opposed to the sticker price?

Tipsy Mac · 13-03-2009 12:50pm

VRT rates could change but normally there will be a July or January change date given.

DonJose · 13-03-2009 12:56pm

I cannot see VRT rates rising, sale cars are down 64% last month and any VRT rates rise would kill off the already dying car industry. Then again our governments heads are so far up their a$$es they can't see whats going on around them.

Saab Ed · 13-03-2009 1:04pm

They cant really do alot to shut the imports down but I would be amazed if they dont do something to stimulate the home industry i.e scrappage scheme, VRT reduction on new eco friendly cars etc. Anyway as I said before UK imports are spent. Only new and pre-reg cars are worth travelling for, anything older can be bought here for the same if not less.

DonJose · 13-03-2009 1:07pm

Saab Ed wrote: »

Only new and pre-reg cars are worth travelling for, anything older can be bought here for the same if not less.

What would an 06 Saab 9.5 Aero Auto saloon with 40k miles sell for here?

cadete · 13-03-2009 1:12pm

Saab Ed wrote: »

Only new and pre-reg cars are worth travelling for, anything older can be bought here for the same if not less.

Dont think thats true i picked up a 04 A4 for 6500 euro in antrim, black 130BHP 6 speed 80k on the clock, full ASH, 2500 euro to import so thats 9 grand, dont think youll pick up anythin near that in the south.

scrappage scheme, VRT reduction is the way to go but they wont touch vrt

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 1:15pm

DonJose wrote: »

What would an 06 Saab 9.5 Aero Auto saloon with 40k miles sell for here?

I'd say €14k? I'm sniffing around an 04 estate with 37k miles going for around €10k.

Saab Ed · 13-03-2009 1:24pm

cadete wrote: »

Dont think thats true i picked up a 04 A4 for 6500 euro in antrim, black 130BHP 6 speed 80k on the clock, full ASH, 2500 euro to import so thats 9 grand, dont think youll pick up anythin near that in the south.

scrappage scheme, VRT reduction is the way to go but they wont touch vrt

http://cars.motornet.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1325939

Before you start to haggle.....

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 1:24pm

Saab Ed wrote: »

Only new and pre-reg cars are worth travelling for, anything older can be bought here for the same if not less.

I think not.

For a start I can't even find the car I want here - most S-Max diesels here are all 1.8s, but I want the 2.0 (same CO2 banding, but more power). And the spec is much better in the UK - some features I want are simply not included here as standard. And there's a much larger choice of cars in the UK, obviously.

With the pound/euro so close together, I'm saving 7 grand over what I could buy here which would still be older, higher mileage and lower spec.....

Saab Ed · 13-03-2009 1:26pm

Gwynston wrote: »

I think not.

For a start I can't even find the car I want here - most S-Max diesels here are all 1.8s, but I want the 2.0 (same CO2 banding, but more power). And the spec is much better in the UK - some features I want are simply not included here as standard. And there's a much larger choice of cars in the UK, obviously.

With the pound/euro so close together, I'm saving 7 grand over what I could buy here which would still be older, higher mileage and lower spec.....

Show me the link to the 7 grand saving please...

DonJose · 13-03-2009 1:28pm

Saab Ed, What would an 06 Saab 9.5 Aero Auto saloon with 40k miles sell for here?

lrdisco · 13-03-2009 1:28pm

2004 Landrover Freelander here 10K /15K but in the UK I got one for 6K with 8K less miles.

Saab Ed · 13-03-2009 1:29pm

DonJose wrote: »

Saab Ed, What would an 06 Saab 9.5 Aero Auto saloon with 40k miles sell for here?

I have no idea, I dont sell Saabs

DonJose · 13-03-2009 1:29pm

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd say €14k? I'm sniffing around an 04 estate with 37k miles going for around €10k.

If they were selling for that price here I wouldn't go the UK

cadete · 13-03-2009 1:33pm

10950 before haggling no chance any private sale will drop 2 grand, its common knowledge irish car prices are a total rip off, anyone buying a car outside the uk needs their head checked or have more money than sense, Irish dealers had it too good for too long,

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 1:34pm

Saab Ed wrote: »

Show me the link to the 7 grand saving please...

OK, I'm buying a S-Max 2.0 TDCI Titanium June 08, 9000mi for €18k. VRT is €7k

Here's what's available here:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/results?nParam=102456+200294+200469+4294909950&cacheBuster=1236951043114421#nParam=200400+200439+102456+200292+200469+4294909950&sortby=Make|0

kuro_man · 13-03-2009 1:43pm

Gwynston wrote: »

Do you think the budget might change the rules/taxes on importing cars in order to hit all the UK imports and stimulate more sales here?

It would be illegal to tax EU imports in order to protect Irish interests (ie. protectionism). VRT on imported used cars should not exceed the VRT built into the price on used Irish cars. As inflated OMSP's protect Irish dealers by default, I have lodge a complaint to EU and it is being investigated.

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 1:44pm

DonJose wrote: »

If they were selling for that price here I wouldn't go the UK

No if about it: http://www.carzone.ie/search/Saab/9-5/AERO-TUR/200908191861580/advert. The main thing that people forget to calculate into their figures is the massive discounts available from dealers here when there's no trade-in.

Jumpy · 13-03-2009 1:45pm

Heres a curiosity question.

If the government abolishes VRT will the jump in car sales +VAT earn them more that VRT would?

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 1:47pm

Gwynston wrote: »

OK, I'm buying a S-Max 2.0 TDCI Titanium June 08, 9000mi for €18k. VRT is €7k

Do you mean the car's costing €18k + €7k = €25k, or €18k all-in? Is the car you're bringing in an auto too?

DonJose · 13-03-2009 1:51pm

Anan1 wrote: »

No if about it: http://www.carzone.ie/search/Saab/9-5/AERO-TUR/200908191861580/advert. The main thing that people forget to calculate into their figures is the massive discounts available from dealers here when there's no trade-in.

Thats an 2004 and the old shape.

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 1:52pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Do you mean the car's costing €18k + €7k = €25k, or €18k all-in? Is the car you're bringing in an auto too?

Yes, €25k in all.
No it's a manual, My link was to indicate what little choice there is here in the 2.0. The cheaper ones in that search are lower Zetec spec and only one of the Titaniums is manual, but coats 10k more, and is a lower spec than a UK Titanium!

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 1:55pm

Gwynston wrote: »

Yes, €25k in all.
No it's a manual, My link was to indicate what little choice there is here in the 2.0. The cheaper ones in that search are lower Zetec spec and only one of the Titaniums is manual, but coats 10k more, and is a lower spec than a UK Titanium!

What was the best cash price you were offered out of the cars listed by an Irish dealer?

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 2:04pm

Gwynston - Out of curiosity, I just rang South Dublin Ford Centre about this one: http://www.carzone.ie/search/Ford/S-Max/2.0-TDCi/200910192030371/advert

and was offered the car for €24,950. It's not a Titanium, but it is an original Irish car with km clocks. Going by that, it looks like you're saving nothing at best - and that was just one phone call.

Saab Ed · 13-03-2009 2:09pm

Gwynston wrote: »

Yes, €25k in all.
No it's a manual, My link was to indicate what little choice there is here in the 2.0. The cheaper ones in that search are lower Zetec spec and only one of the Titaniums is manual, but coats 10k more, and is a lower spec than a UK Titanium!

Still want to see the link to this car

Did you include travel expences + HPI check +time in your all in cost

And tell me , how does it feel to be paving the Queens highway as our country goes down the toilet because you wont pick up the phone

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 2:12pm

Anan1 wrote: »

What was the best cash price you were offered out of the cars listed by an Irish dealer?

Do be honest, I haven't found a 2.0 Titanium for sale in the country at around 10k mileage anywhere within a couple of grand of €30k. (They are €40k new) Hence I started looking in the UK where there are plenty available around €17/18k.

And I'm not over-stressing this, but the spec difference is important as the car I'm getting has some standard features I specifically wanted (parking sensors and privacy glass), plus some other goodies which simply aren't included over here.

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 2:15pm

Anan1 wrote: »

It's not a Titanium, but it is an original Irish car with km clocks. Going by that, it looks like you're saving nothing at best - and that was just one phone call.

Apples and pears I'm afraid. Even an Irish Titanium model is under specced compared to what I'm buying in the UK.

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 2:15pm

Gwynston wrote: »

Do be honest, I haven't found a 2.0 Titanium for sale in the country at around 10k mileage anywhere within a couple of grand of €30k. (They are €40k new) Hence I started looking in the UK where there are plenty available around €17/18k.

And I'm not over-stressing this, but the spec difference is important as the car I'm getting has some standard features I specifically wanted (parking sensors and privacy glass), plus some other goodies which simply aren't included over here.

Have you actually rung the dealers though, or did you just assume the sticker price was the price?

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 2:22pm

Saab Ed wrote: »

Still want to see the link to this car

Did you include travel expences + HPI check +time in your all in cost

And tell me , how does it feel to be paving the Queens highway as our country goes down the toilet because you wont pick up the phone

What - you don't believe me on the price? Thanks for tarnishing my integrity. :rolleyes:
Try a search on autotrader.co.uk - you'll see plenty of examples around £16k.

Travel expenses are about €200 all-in.

As for not doing my bit to save the country by not buying here - I have no qualms whatsoever about the car industry here going down to the dogs if they continue to rip off consumers. And VRT is the biggest abomination of a tax ever to be conceived and I will lose zero sleep over refusing to pay used car prices here that are over-inflated because of it.

Padraig Mor · 13-03-2009 2:23pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Have you actually rung the dealers though, or did you just assume the sticker price was the price?

One of my primary complaints about the Irish motor industry right here - dump the cloak and dagger **** and advertise the actual price.

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 2:25pm

Gwynston wrote: »

What - you don't believe me on the price? Thanks for tarnishing my integrity. :rolleyes:
Try a search on autotrader.co.uk - you'll see plenty of examples around £16k.

Travel expenses are about €200 all-in.

As for not doing my bit to save the country by not buying here - I have no qualms whatsoever about the car industry here going down to the dogs if they continue to rip off consumers. And VRT is the biggest abomination of a tax ever to be conceived and I will lose zero sleep over refusing to pay used car prices here that are over-inflated because of it.

I'm going to try this one last time. Have you actually rung all the dealers, or did you just assume the sticker price was the price?

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 2:26pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Have you actually rung the dealers though, or did you just assume the sticker price was the price?

Well I assumed that if advertised prices are around €35k, they're not going to sell for very close to €30k are they? Or if they are, then their advertising is cr@p :P

Like I said, I've honestly found barely any 2.0 Titaniums under a year old for sale, and they're under-specced here anyway.

And when it comes down to it, mine will only cost me €25k.....

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 2:27pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

One of my primary complaints about the Irish motor industry right here - dump the cloak and dagger **** and advertise the actual price.

Well said that man!

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 2:29pm

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm going to try this one last time. Have you actually rung all the dealers, or did you just assume the sticker price was the price?

Yes, I have spoken to dealers.
And no - they couldn't come anywhere under €30k, let alone the €25k I'm spending.

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 2:31pm

Gwynston wrote: »

Well I assumed that if advertised prices are around €35k, they're not going to sell for very close to €30k are they? Or if they are, then their advertising is cr@p :P

Like I said, I've honestly found barely any 2.0 Titaniums under a year old for sale, and they're under-specced here anyway.

And when it comes down to it, mine will only cost me €25k.....

I bought a new car last summer, listed at €47,700, I paid €34,800. My brother bought an 07 Passat estate a few months ago, sticker price was €23,950, he paid €18,500. The S-Max I rang about was stickered at €29,950, I was immediately offered the car for €24,950. Do you see a pattern here?;)

Saab Ed · 13-03-2009 2:34pm

Anan1 wrote: »

I bought a new car last summer, listed at €47,700, I paid €34,800. My brother bought an 07 Passat estate a few months ago, sticker price was €23,950, he paid €18,500. The S-Max I rang about was stickered at €29,950, I was immediately offered the car for €24,950. Do you see a pattern here?;)

I think you're wasting your time on this one :rolleyes:

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 2:43pm

Saab Ed wrote: »

I think you're wasting your time on this one :rolleyes:

Excuse me - you don't have to lower yourself to insults.
I'm not disputing ny of the prices being mentioned here (like you seem to towards me).

I reiterate though - why not advertise a price that will attract more interest?

And I further reiterate - the specific model of car I'm after didn't offer up many examples in my searching here, so the market here simply couldn't compete with the UK for what I'm buying.

Saab Ed · 13-03-2009 2:45pm

Try it some time...:)

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 2:51pm

Saab Ed wrote: »

Try it some time...:)

What's you point?
I did look for a car here, I did call dealers, I didn't find one within €5k of what was available in UK.

I'm estimating more of a €7k difference because what I'm buying in the UK is only 8 months old, 9k miles and higher specced than the top model here.

What's left to justify?

Saab Ed · 13-03-2009 2:55pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Gwynston - Out of curiosity, I just rang South Dublin Ford Centre about this one: http://www.carzone.ie/search/Ford/S-Max/2.0-TDCi/200910192030371/advert

and was offered the car for €24,950. It's not a Titanium, but it is an original Irish car with km clocks. Going by that, it looks like you're saving nothing at best - and that was just one phone call.

That was Anan1's first phone call... C'mon now how hard did you try. Its your kids back on that same boat in a few years if we keep this up

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 3:03pm

Gwynston wrote: »

What's you point?
I did look for a car here, I did call dealers, I didn't find one within €5k of what was available in UK.

I'm estimating more of a €7k difference because what I'm buying in the UK is only 8 months old, 9k miles and higher specced than the top model here.

What's left to justify?

What's the difference in value here between a2008 Titanium and a Zetec?

sparklepants · 13-03-2009 3:03pm

Anan1 wrote: »

The S-Max I rang about was stickered at €29,950, I was immediately offered the car for €24,950. Do you see a pattern here?;)

Saab Ed wrote: »

That was Anan1's first phone call... C'mon now how hard did you try. Its your kids back on that same boat in a few years if we keep this up

Surely the car dealers of Ireland aren't going to sit around waiting for customers to call them? Why should a consumer have to ring a retailer to ask if the price listed is truthful? In a collapsing market, this sales approach is suicidal. It's not as if the consumer doesn't have any alternatives.

green-blood · 13-03-2009 3:06pm

Are you people incapabel of listening to teh guy

he WANTS a TITANIUM.... which is a classy choice, its what we have, 2.0TDCI are impossible to get here very few were sold and certainly dont come on the Irish market within 9 months... a lot of Enlglish S-max are ex-fleet.

spend your money on the car you want Gwyn, where ever it is. its not your job to keep any segment of industry alive.

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 3:08pm

sparklepants wrote: »

Surely the car dealers of Ireland aren't going to sit around waiting for customers to call them? Why should a consumer have to ring a retailer to ask if the price listed is truthful? In a collapsing market, this sales approach is suicidal. It's not as if the consumer doesn't have any alternatives.

Dealers inflate prices to give themselves room to allow unrealistic trade-in values. If you don't have a trade-in, it's a whole different ball game.

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 3:10pm

Anan1 wrote: »

What's the difference in value here between a2008 Titanium and a Zetec?

A couple of grand, but the UK ones have over grands worth more equipment again over Irish Titaniums.

My point is, it's almost impossible to find 2.0 Titaniums under 1yo here. And the few I've inquired about don't come within 20% of €25k.

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 3:11pm

green-blood wrote: »

Are you people incapabel of listening to teh guy

he WANTS a TITANIUM.... which is a classy choice, its what we have, 2.0TDCI are impossible to get here very few were sold and certainly dont come on the Irish market within 9 months... a lot of Enlglish S-max are ex-fleet.

spend your money on the car you want Gwyn, where ever it is. its not your job to keep any segment of industry alive.

Relax, everybody. I'm actually trying to help Gwynston here. We all know that he wants a Titanium, the question is whether he can get an Irish car at a price comparable to what he'll pay if he imports one.

Drummerboy08 · 13-03-2009 3:11pm

I agree with the lads here - there is no point in advertising at one price in the hope of selling for another. I know we dont do it. Any of our cars at the minute are one of the cheapest on the web.

Its madness - and the people who do it need to cop on.

Anan1 · 13-03-2009 3:15pm

Gwynston wrote: »

A couple of grand, but the UK ones have over grands worth more equipment again over Irish Titaniums.

My point is, it's almost impossible to find 2.0 Titaniums under 1yo here. And the few I've inquired about don't come within 20% of €25k.

Bottom line - if it's cheaper to import then do. It's just important to be aware that straight-deal prices here are often far lower than sticker prices. Call every Irish dealer with a car you want, tell them what you'll pay for an import, and see whether they can/will compete. Also remember that a small premium for an Irish-market car with kmh clocks will be repaid come resale. Good luck in any case.

Gwynston · 13-03-2009 3:16pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Relax, everybody. I'm actually trying to help Gwynston here. We all know that he wants a Titanium, the question is whether he can get an Irish car at a price comparable to what he'll pay if he imports one.

Coolly put. :cool:

I didn't come on here trying to advocate my position - this has gone off-topic after someone challenged whether I was really saving money.

As green-blood said, there's really very little choice here, so in the model I'm after, Irish prices really can't compete.

Guy:Incognito · 13-03-2009 3:17pm

Gwynston wrote: »

And I'm not over-stressing this, but the spec difference is important as the car I'm getting has some standard features I specifically wanted (parking sensors and privacy glass), plus some other goodies which simply aren't included over here.

When it comes time to sell the car will you be offloading it at a lower "uk" price or pricing it in relation to other cars for sale here?

Dealers sell their car dearer here because they cost them more to buy in /take in as a trade in. Obviously we'd all love them to give you a high trade in price and sell at a low price but thats not realistic.

Import rule changes in mini budget?

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