David Begg

segaBOY

David Begg seems to be throwing the "fair" word around a lot lately. Just wondering what other members of boards think:

Is it "fair" that he earns over four times the national average wage at €136,000 as head of ICTU? Yes of course he does an awful lot of work and deserves to be remunerated but after all a good chunk of this wage is coming from decent workers subscriptions? Would it not be more in his ethos to earn closer to what other union members generally earn? Or is he a big wig fat cat at heart too?

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/union-chiefs-on-big-wages-unite-against-pay-cuts-1613952.html

Furthermore, Mr. Begg seems to blame the banks and bankers a lot. Yes, true, they did a lot of irresponsible things and caused an awful lot of this mess-I'm not disagreeing that in the slightest, however, is David Begg not a member of the Irish Central Bank board of directors? Was he not there before the bubble burst? I think he was! And does he not earn over €140k a year from that post? Jeez, he seems to be one wealthy trade unionist. Just wondering how he didn't spot such poor practices in the Banking sector and do something about it earlier...after all he is a director and the working man's apparent leader.....

http://www.centralbank.ie/frame_main.asp?pg=abt_orga.asp&nv=abt_nav.asp

I for one am simply confused at how he gets such blind support :mad:

nesf

He does what he does well. I disagree with him but he's an effective voice for those who he represents and as such earns his salt.

I do find it amusing that someone on the board of the Central Bank gives out about the bankers.

ednwireland

i don't like unions , i have never been a mmber even when i said i would join if the rep sat down with me for 5 mins and explained the benefits - he wouldnt (this was in a largly closed shop in uk) as far as david begg goes i have thought for several months that its the pot calling the kettle black. does he get paid for being on the board of the central bank ?

does he have unvouched expenses ?

and yes i think he earns too much (or at least his wage should decrease as his members are laid off) wonder if the unions will be in deficit by the end of the year ?

is_that_so

As a union rep he does what he is supposed to. It strikes me that he gets too much money but if ICTU can handle it who are we to argue. As a player in the discussions of where we go I can't say he is someone that has impressed me and I am extremely uneasy at the amount of influence he and the other unelected social partners have had over the last decade in particular.

Given that it has taken a serious problem for many on the union side to acknowledge the need for genuine negotiations (as appears to be taking place in Dublin Bus) IMO any credit or kudos that he and others may have claimed will be shown to be no more than an ego trip.

However I do think he has appeared at a time of government softened up by enormous coffers. Personally feel that public sector unions in particular have had a hand,largely denied IMO, in where our public finances have ended up. They took full advantage of the "socialist" Mr Consensus and a lot of credit must be due to them extracting the free cash of benchmarking not once but twice.

DadaKopf

Tell me, what do you suppose your working conditions (pay, hours, benefits, etc.) may have been like if there weren't unions in Ireland? This isn't a rhetorical question, it's a genuine exploration of the purpose of unions.

is_that_so

My response to that is that they are a part of the whole industrial relations mix and have been and should continue to be an essential part of the defence of workers rights. However the current beast is very different from what they started out out as and now have effectively become a club that only looks after their members. Even the protests they've organised, empty gestures IMO, are no more than an excuse to show that they are doing something and to let people let off steam.

I don't believe they have answers on their own. Most answers I hear involve the word "fair". In the current climate they almost had to be beaten into acknowledging the current problem, the need to cut public spending. Much of what they do in my view merely serves their own "vested interest". Even where they have participated fully, as (appears) in the current Dublin Bus negotiations and the Aer Lingus "package" it was not of their own volition and regularly includes the usual veiled threats of militant action.

SkepticOne

DadaKopf wrote: »

Tell me, what do you suppose your working conditions (pay, hours, benefits, etc.) may have been like if there weren't unions in Ireland?

Swings and roundabouts. They can have a temporary beneficial effect for their members but can undermine competitiveness. Lose competitiveness and you have no job. A lot of the industries with heavy union organisation are now gone.

Darragh29

is_that_so wrote: »

As a union rep he does what he is supposed to. It strikes me...

:D:D

John_C

DadaKopf wrote: »

Tell me, what do you suppose your working conditions (pay, hours, benefits, etc.) may have been like if there weren't unions in Ireland? This isn't a rhetorical question, it's a genuine exploration of the purpose of unions.

The country was a mess before we had democracy too, that doesn't stop us from questioning the Taoiseach's salary.

nesf

DadaKopf wrote: »

Tell me, what do you suppose your working conditions (pay, hours, benefits, etc.) may have been like if there weren't unions in Ireland? This isn't a rhetorical question, it's a genuine exploration of the purpose of unions.

When unions go wild: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2009/0314/1224242848106.html?digest=1

otwb

nesf wrote: »

I do find it amusing that someone on the board of the Central Bank gives out about the bankers.

He was also involved in partnership....look where that got us

Does anyone know whether he has voluntered to take a pay cut in solidarity with the people he represents?

thebigcheese22

aw great, another union/worker-bashing thread on the politics forum, surprise surprise! :rolleyes:

In fairness I'd love to see how much the IBEC boss gets every year.

jimmmy

segaBOY wrote: »

Is it "fair" that he earns over four times the national average wage at €136,000 as head of ICTU?

Of course not. There are Presidents of other Western governments earning FAR less.

K4t

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

aw great, another union/worker-bashing thread on the politics forum, surprise surprise! :rolleyes:

In fairness I'd love to see how much the IBEC boss gets every year.

You mean how much he declares :pac:

thebigcheese22

K4t wrote: »

You mean how much he declares :pac:

Exactly! Somehow I doubt he's as up front as David Begg.

oscarBravo

A word of warning: if you're going to accuse someone of tax evasion, be very prepared to come out with solid evidence of it. If you don't have that evidence, keep the malicious innuendo off this forum.

thebigcheese22

oscarBravo wrote: »

A word of warning: if you're going to accuse someone of tax evasion, be very prepared to come out with solid evidence of it. If you don't have that evidence, keep the malicious innuendo off this forum.

Duly noted.

I just don't get the complete bashing of ICTU on this forum while IBEC were involved in the very same process and they're not being questioned for their involvement at all